Winter's Tale
discussion
Anyone else thing this book was terrible?
Didn't (won't) see the movie mainly because it appeared to be a shallow and ridiculous interpretation of a very complex and intricate book, one my my very favorites for more than 20 years. It's too bad that you were given the wrong impression and they ruined it for you. A good movie based on a book should make you want more, leading you to the book, and with Winter's Tale there is definitely more.
I made it all of the way through the book (barely), and I was NOT impressed. The writing is good, the story...not so much. There were way too many words for a story that goes absolutely no where. Which made me feel like "what's the point?" I felt that the author was trying to show that love could make anything possible (which is an excellent base to go off of) but never quite followed through. He never made his point clear (in almost 750 pages!!!).Yes, it mixed a mystical world into the storyline. I normally enjoy a good fantasy/sci-fi/mystical story if it is done well. However, the author was so long winded, and switched paces so suddenly, that it made it hard to care. And to be honest, I went and watched the movie because the previews made it look like they actually portrayed the theme better than the book. But beware, there are some strange aspects added to the movie as well, that had nothing to do with the book.
Just my opinion, but I don't think I will pick up another Mark Helprin book up in the future.
Great concept. Poorly executed.
AJ wrote: "Didn't (won't) see the movie mainly because it appeared to be a shallow and ridiculous interpretation of a very complex and intricate book, one my my very favorites for more than 20 years. It's to..."I can see that someone who doesn't like fantasy would not like the book but the reader still appreciate its complesity and novelty.
I think it's too long for the payoff, but I love the atmosphere of it, the descriptive passages, the benevolent worldview. Fits my categories of "quiet reading" and "comfort reading." Doesn't hurt that I'm a fan of the New York City setting and magical realism as a genre.
Me! I enjoyed a few parts here and there, but overall, I cannot for the life of me figure out what someone would see in this book. I finished it ONLY because it was me versus that darn book. I hear the movie is good. We'll see! I agree with the comments previous that state they love the writing- I did, but only to a point. Further agreement with the comment that it was 'too long for the payoff'. Nothing outstanding happened. The bridge didn't get 'thrown'- but the book did!
I made it through the book by sheer determination alone! I found the descriptive phrases distracting, unnecessary lengthy, and not always relevant. I also found it very difficult to engage with any of the characters because they shifted so awkwardly in and out of the story line - and they, as well as their motives and reasoning, were rather hard to believe. I haven't seen any of the movie previews - and have no desire to see the movie - but my take on the story line was very different. While there were love interests, I didn't see it as a love story at all; I saw it as having parallels to Biblical stories. The Tower of Babel, good vs. evil, self-sacrifice, a promise of life after death, etc. But, to be honest, by the time I got to the end of the book, I didn't care to evaluate it or my take on it too much.
However, since no book or exchange of ideas is ever a total waste of time, I'm sure that, at some point, an opportunity may arise when I will find a greater value in something I took from this book. Right now, though -- not so much.
I read this book a few years ago. I read Halprin's "Freddy and Fredericka" and was positively charmed, amused, amazed, and touched by this book and its message. I went looking for other books by Halprin and found WT. Had anyone informed me of the plot beforehand I wouldn't have opened the book. It was certainly not my cup of tea. I started reading the book and hard a difficult time with it and the imagery. However, I was impressed by the author's writing talent. The things he was describing were depicted so well that I couldn't stop reading. I wondered how long could he keep this up before the images collapsed. They never did. I didn't like the book but was impressed by the author and acquired "A Soldier in the Great War" which was much better and quite moving. WT, however, was a surreal mess written well. When I learned of the movie I told my wife it would be impossible to bring this to the screen and make it coherent or believable.
I'm a little more than half way through and the corny just keeps coming. Helprin doesn't develop characters but instead barely alters the Disney-esq clichés he borrows from. Every couple is essentially the same as the couple before, the only distinction is that they become more irritating with every reiteration/reincarnation. I struggled to discover why these paper-thin personalities were ever attracted to each other and what actual content their relationships held (none by the way). Yesterday I turned to reviews on the book for guiding advice on whether or not I should steady on through the novel. In reading the reviews, I discovered there's supposedly a villain in this story. Yes, the character has been reference two or three times in the first section of the book, as a mysterious bridge builder. Oooohhhh. And as of the end of section two (more than half way through the book) that is all that is known about the "villain". There is yet no indication that he is good or bad, just that he builds bridges. Apparently, he's a fallen angel, something something dark side, blahblahblah, this book is so boring, and maybe it's because the antagonist is an evil bridge builder who more than half way through the book HASN'T DONE ANYTHING. I hope his eventual role is to build a bridge that every character in the book jumps off of. Some magical-evil-rainbow-cloud-bridge that attracts white horses, people with consumption, newspaper columnists, and people who fall in love through walls.
This is the worst magical realism book I've ever read. This isn’t even magical realism, it’s a poorly executed mash-up of magical elements held together by nothing more than the front and back covers. Should an actual alter-dimensional-cloud wall exist, I would throw this book into it and Helprin as well. If you are at all curious about the actual story, if there even is one, then just wait for the movie to come out. This is one of the few cases in which I'm sure the movie will be better than the book. If Russel Crowe's face can't fix this mess, then nothing can.
I loved this book - bit of a minority view here - and wish there were more like it. I even took some sugar from one of the reviews, which stated quite overtly that it defied synopsis. Cynics might suggest that such a view implies that it's a frameless mess, but I'd counter by saying that - in my case at least - I had to admire something so unusual which I did understand. Compare if you will Carlos Fuentes' Terra Nostra - if you claim you can sum that up concisely, you're a liar. Or a genius. Or something.In reading some of the views above, one thing that strikes me is the number of interpretations that I don't recall having. True, it's nearly 27 years since I read it, but perhaps I just belly-flopped into the scenario's Universe and wallowed whole-heartedly. Whatever happened, it worked for me.
Stacey wrote: "I got 222 pages into this book. I had watched a trailer for the movie and thought WOW! so I picked up the books so I could read it before seeing the movie.I couldn't do it. It was confusing, te..."
I am with you Stacey. I was excited to start reading this...but barely made it half way through before giving up and putting it down. It was too disjointed.
I stopped around the same point and every time I imagined going to back to it I shuddered. I finally had to give in and just admit defeat.
Hallelujah - I feel vindicated in reading all of your posts. I will certainly admit that the author has a gift with words, but I concur wholeheartedly with all of you. I raced to get to the conclusion just to end the suffering and I found it a huge disappointment. The sheer effort to drag through this story makes me feel like it was an enormous waste of time. He started so many interesting story lines that fizzled. What was the point of it? Evil, love, stars, light, bridges, gangs, weird ice walls, competing newspapers. Blah. Peter Lake could work magic, but he couldn't save this story.
I went to the movie to see Jessica Findley Brown, as I am a Downton Abbey fan and was sad when she died in childbirth in order to do the movie. I'd previously read about a lot of confusion created by the story line of the movie. New York is also a favorite place for me. So I enjoyed the movie for those reasons. I have since read that the movie did not do the book justice. Now I'm reading negative comments about the book. I guess I'll have to decide for myself.
I finished! Yaaaaaay!! I kept going and I'm glad I did. I have to admit there was a lot more in there than necessary, very dreamy and poetic, but I liked the characters (as strange as they were) I don't quite know what drew me to this book, or what kept me going, but I did and even though I have no clue what took place I absolutely understood what was going on, I could even explain it as we watched the film.. as I said in my review very confused!!
A few things about Helprin's Winter's Tale.Not that agents are the best critics, or are the most insightful arbiters of literature, but when I attended a conference some years back, I spoke with one whose agency received the manuscript. She said it was passed around the office, and everyone's breath was taken away after reading it. Mine was, too.
One reviewer called it (paraphrased) "Possibly the finest novel ever written without a plot..." I laughed when I read that. Yeah, probably true on both counts.
I bought the book in its first edition for three reasons. A) The title struck me. B) The image of the horse flying over New York City was astonishingly beautiful. C) The opening paragraph knocked me out. "There was a white horse..." It was a great choice.
If you like...no, love...words, and their possibilities, if you love characters...Peter lake and Pearly Soames are classic...then you must read Winter's Tale. The only time I said, "Whaa...?" was the narrative short history of the Woola Woola Boys. Nearly mindless in a novel that stretches the imagination. The gathering of the Short Tails in the city's Harlem River siphon and the demise of Mootfowl are priceless, as is Peter's first sojourn to the Penn Mansion.
The movie? I cringe.
I found the book to be terrible and I couldn't even get halfway through because it was just too confusing. I am thinking of just watching the movie though to see what I was actually reading and maybe I'll be able to understand the book.
The film was nothing like the book. Take probably 500 pages out and all the characters in them 500 pages, change around most of the story line and A New York Winters Tale staring Colin Farrel is born. On its own, it is a lovely movie and beautiful in its own rights.. I cried :'(
Did anyone, regardless of whether you enjoyed the the book or not, didn't you just find Jesse Honey hilarious?! I just remembered him..
Rachael wrote: "Did anyone, regardless of whether you enjoyed the the book or not, didn't you just find Jesse Honey hilarious?! I just remembered him.."I thought I was going to die laughing when Hardesty got on that freight train..and then Jesse showed up.
So so funny.. I actually went into a fit of hysteria when he died!.....ok, so that sounds bad but it was comical!
Jesse died???? After the shock pancake landing? :)
Yes I found it a torture to read and I am usually such a fast reader. Was way too drawn out and jumped all over the place from character to character and time to time as well. It was simply way too long and advertised as something it was not much of in my opinion. I also found it somewhat depressing. I was unable to finish I powered through somehow and only had a third left but I just couldn't force myself to suffer anymore lol So I am just going to look online and find out the ending that way lol
Rachael wrote: "The film was nothing like the book. Take probably 500 pages out and all the characters in them 500 pages, change around most of the story line and A New York Winters Tale staring Colin Farrel is bo..."That is a relief since the movie actually looked really good.
Patrick wrote: "A few things about Helprin's Winter's Tale.Not that agents are the best critics, or are the most insightful arbiters of literature, but when I attended a conference some years back, I spoke with o..."
The opening paragraph as well as the horse were my favorite parts of the whole book, well the part I could actually get through that is...
Rachael wrote: "I finished! Yaaaaaay!! I kept going and I'm glad I did. I have to admit there was a lot more in there than necessary, very dreamy and poetic, but I liked the characters (as strange as they were) I ..."Wow congrats if you don't mind could you message me on here and tell me how it ends?
Lorah wrote: "I'm reading this at the moment and really struggling to get into it, I'm considering giving up. Is it worth pushing through to the end? I have a long way to go yet!"I had only a third left and failed to finish it just gets worst and worst as it goes on as well as more confusing. I would not suggest finishing it just hit people up online for the spoilers and ending. No need for everyone to suffer lol
Ashley wrote: "I stopped around the same point and every time I imagined going to back to it I shuddered. I finally had to give in and just admit defeat."Me too I don't think you could pay me to read this book ever again lol
I'm sorry you found the book unreadable. Please check out my blog post about Winter's Tale at: http://sharonsloveofbooks.blogspot.co... I hope by understanding Magic Realism a little bit more you might consider trying it again. Many happy pages of reading, my dear friend. Sharon Powers.Stacey wrote: "I got 222 pages into this book. I had watched a trailer for the movie and thought WOW! so I picked up the books so I could read it before seeing the movie.
I couldn't do it. It was confusing, te..."
Stacey wrote: "I got 222 pages into this book. I had watched a trailer for the movie and thought WOW! so I picked up the books so I could read it before seeing the movie.
I couldn't do it. It was confusing, te..."
I'm sorry to hear you didn't like the book, either. Please check out my blog post about the book (Winter's Tale). I did an in-depth review of the book on my blog you might enjoy. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://sharonsloveofbooks.blogspot.co...Marissa wrote: "Ashley wrote: "I stopped around the same point and every time I imagined going to back to it I shuddered. I finally had to give in and just admit defeat."
Me too I don't think you could pay me to ..."
Rachel, congratulations! Did you like it, or was it an endurance contest? (LOL) Please check out my blog post of my book review of the book and tell me what you think, now that you've read the "whole thing!" http://sharonsloveofbooks.blogspot.co...Marissa wrote: "Rachael wrote: "I finished! Yaaaaaay!! I kept going and I'm glad I did. I have to admit there was a lot more in there than necessary, very dreamy and poetic, but I liked the characters (as strange ..."
Sharon, I love mystery, ambiguity, and multiple planes of reality in books I read...but I just couldn't finish this. It was too much. I agree about his "beautiful prose" but it didn't keep me from continuing on with this story. The beginning of the book kept my interest....the horse, the girl, ....but close to halfway through...it just seemed to meander off to places that only confused me. Maybe I will try again some day...
Jessica wrote: "I'm a little more than half way through and the corny just keeps coming. Helprin doesn't develop characters but instead barely alters the Disney-esq clichés he borrows from. Every couple is essenti..."I wish I saw this and read this before even contemplating picking up this horrendous book. Your review is spot on.
I read the book twice. I just loved the wandering story and the characters and the way he described most of the plot. Yes, it seemed aimless but I found I was swept away by the meandering of the story. The movie was only half as good. I did not like the Satan addition. Too heavy handed, just like Hollywood.
Robin, I, too, loved the meandering story and characters. I also LOVED the various motifs and plotlines. Check out my blog post about Mark Helprin's Winter's Tale and tell me if you like it. I'd love to hear from you since you loved the book: http://sharonsloveofbooks.blogspot.co...
I feel vindicated reading how many other people felt this book was an endurance contest between the book and themselves. I won, but it was a struggle! The flowery descriptive language and meandering plot were a bit too dull for me. That being said, after seeing the movie I gained more of an appreciation for the book. I think both versions of Winter's Tale will be "once only" things for me.
Does anyone have any ideas about why Peter Lake had to meet every dead person ever? I assumed this was a preamble to shattering death, or whatever, but all that sort of 'Petered" out.
I read the book and I was confused about the time line was it our present or was it the story present - meaning he died in the late 1800's and comes back in 1920's sort of thing - because they kept saying the 1,2 millennium .
Patrick wrote: "A few things about Helprin's Winter's Tale.Not that agents are the best critics, or are the most insightful arbiters of literature, but when I attended a conference some years back, I spoke with o..."
Patrick, well said. Lovers of words and language will love this novel. BTW, the first few pages made me buy the book as well. Two other parts of the book were so powerful I must have re-read them a dozen times. His description of madmen and saints: "to be mad is to feel with excruciating intensity..." and the heartbreaking passage of the beaten dray horse: through the middle of the crowd came a mutilated and disfigured draft horse pulling a wagon loaded with refuse... This is a brilliantly realized novel.
I wanted to love this book so badly! I saw the movie and was so intrigued although the movie wasn't all that good (bad special effects). Anyway, I read half way through the book, liked certain story lines but then it just kept getting cornier and cornier. I am a fan of mystical, science fiction-type, fantasy literature so this should have been right up my alley. I will definitely remember some of the characters for a very long time because they were so well described. However, the book was a complete failure for me.
Absolutely! I hate to not finish a book, but there are too many books I WANT to read to spend time reading one I'm not finding interesting. I dislike books where the author takes pages to state something that could be well said in a paragraph.
Can't agree. I liked it and had my book club read it, and so did they, but if you are not into magical realism, then it's not for you. It also helps to live in the New York area and to pass through Grand Central Terminal on your way to work and look up at the ceiling where the main character hid out.You might not like Pete Hamill's Forever either, but it's pretty swell and magical too. And now a TV series.
Patrick wrote: "Can't agree. I liked it and had my book club read it, and so did they, but if you are not into magical realism, then it's not for you. It also helps to live in the New York area and to pass through..."Right on Patrick. Totally agree with you. And regarding the comments on this post about Helprin taking pages to write something that could be done in a paragraph - that is part of what literature is about. It's not a race to finish as quickly as possible, it's about savoring an authors style, use of language and appreciating the pictures he/she paints with words. Some books are economical with language others more detailed, both can be great art.
I finally saw the movie. What a travesty.
Fantastic, magical, fairy tale of a story. A triumph of rich imagination and lyrical poetry in the writing. One of my favorite books of all time. Based on a lot of what's written here I guess its not for everyone. But neither is Tolstoy and Dostoevsky.
Just watched the movie....eh. Does anyone know why Willa would still be alive in 2014. Wasn't she 6 years old or so in 1916? This would make her 104, and the head of a publication? Oh well, a little far fetched ,but possible,I suppose.
@DinahThe entire novel was impossible. The idea of a horse that could fly. An orphaned Irish burglar trying to keep out of the clutches of a sometimes-nasty, most-times lovable gang leader. A genius bridge builder who appears in the city in order to start his latest masterpiece, a catenary to Heaven...magnificently impossible.
When I saw the movie, I cringed. Not because it was so badly done, but because it was SO far off the mark of Helprin's beautiful book. Russell Crowe cowtowing to Will Smith...the DEVIL? Spare me! And little Willa, alive and at the helm of The Ghost...even in a high fantasy, Willa would BE a ghost.
Saw the film yesterday. It reminded me of the adaptation of Peter Straub's Ghost Story, in that it was based on fragments of the book and swept away so much for the sake of inevitable convenience. I can just about imagine someone who hasn't read the book getting a diversionary enjoyment from the film, but for me it was like turning up at the buffet after the really good food has gone.
>47, keep in mind the novel ends at the millenium, so at least Willa's not more than 90 or so.
Thanks for feedback. The book may have ended at the millennium, but the movie forwarded to the year 2014. Bad screen-writing/editing?? A minor faux pas,I suppose.
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I couldn't do it. It was confusing, tended to wander and made almost no sense. A large part of it could be that I expected some sort of love story but got a science fiction-love story combination. I have no idea. My mum also decided to read the book and had to put it down as well. She got further than I did. Some of the reviews I read were amazing so I thought it must be some book. Yeah, not so much. It isn't what I would usually read but sometimes I wander when it comes to books.
Anyone else feel the way I did?