The Not a Book Club Club discussion
Brandon Sanderson
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WoR: Section 2 - Part 1: Alight (Chapters 1-12)
Part 1 features Shallan, Kaladin and Dalinar. This novel's main protagonist is Shallan and we read a lot about her fate in the first part: She travels with Jesnah to the Shattered Plains, discovers psychedelic Shadesmar (the Cognitive realm, i.e. spren's "universe") and bonds to a Cryptic, aka liespren.
Kaladin is on his path becoming a Knight of Radiance of the Order of Windrunners (hinted at the novel's back) who used the Surges of Atmospheric Pressure and Gravity; he works as captain and bodyguard for Dalinar and trains his Surgebinding and we see some Lashings applied.
Dalinar explores his visions and is informed that he has to rebuild the Knights of Radiance because the Everstorm is to expected in some 60 days.
The first part was a little slow for me and not involving like I'd have expected; Sanderson needs far too much room for the setup. It felt like a checklist which Sanderson had to pick up readers from the first volume, push the story forward in mostly expected ways and in general "go through" to be able to carry on. I'm curious how everything develops though.
I knew better than to accept an essentially off-screen death, and I think I've figured it out. Jasnah's surges deal with transformation and transportation. She knew to expect assassins and had a plan. She possibly Soulcast something to look like her, and definitely turned something into blood. Way of Kings mentions some rumors that the Knights Radiant were capable of travelling great distances in the blink of an eye. She ran off somewhere she assumed was safe. Obviously not the Shattered Plains, but I'm not sure where.
Hope that is true. I like Jasnah as a character amd would hate to see her dissapear so early in the series. It seems like Navani journal entries at the beginning of each chapter are written looking back after the desolation has begun and she mentions the loss of Jasnah so she hasn't reappeared in the immediate future.Adolin was an interesting character in Way of Kings and was someone who looked like a definite good guy so it is interesting seeing him from Kaladin's perspective as a spoiled rich kid.
Mod
I imagine all the people who felt Way of Kings was slow will think so here though. Were you one of those people Andreas? I certainly didn't expect the same pacing as the end of WoK at the start. There is so much world building left to be done, I except this kind of pacing for at least the first few books of this series, and I'm totally fine with that.
Personally I love this world/series so much right now that I enjoy just experiencing everything. I don't find it slow, but it's certainly not fast-paced either. Time will tell if I continue to feel this way. 8 more books is a lot of chance to ruin things.
Interesting theory Orelia. I hope she's not dead because I feel like she's too important of a character to die so early in the series.
Bill wrote: "It seems like Navani journal entries at the beginning of each chapter are written looking back after the desolation has begun and she mentions the loss of Jasnah so she hasn't reappeared in the immediate future."
This exactly. I was going to say the same thing. The journal entries are really interesting because they offer us a lot of foreshadowing and insight about what may be in store.
And I have to say some of the Bridge crew crack me up. Especially Rock and that 1-armed guy whose name I can't remember.
Mod
I can't imagine he introduced that plot point in the prologue only to let it drop into nothing..
Would she really have continued to pay that woman to spy for six years? I'm sure that story goes somewhere, but I don't know that the assassin is still posing as one of the queen's handmaids.
Mod
Rob wrote: "I imagine all the people who felt Way of Kings was slow will think so here though. Were you one of those people Andreas? I certainly didn't expect the same pacing as the end of WoK at the start. There is so much world building left to be done, I except this kind of pacing for at least the first few books of this series, and I'm totally fine with that."I don't think that Way of Kings was slow in general. But I think that it has slow parts and some of them are too slow.
Now that I'm nearly through the book, I wouldn't consider the pacing as a problem at all. There are some very fast paced sequences, some slower and some are extrem fast and others are extreme slow.
I liked the different levels of tension and it is good to be able to relax sometimes.
Jasnah being "dead" is actually a good thing for the story: It gives Shallan lots of room to improvise and not go the easy path. It is not as boring that way. And after all it is Shallan's book, not Jasnah's.
I'm pretty sure that Jasnah isn't really dead and we'll see her around sometimes - towards the end of the book or in the next book, I don't know.
Mod
She decides she really wants to study the sea creature and makes the crew lower her down so she see what it looks like.
So I think that development was possible either way, but it puts her in a situation where she is forced to act and can't defer to Jasnah.
We see a little of that right at the end where she commands the slavers to change their plans and assist her in getting to the shattered plain.
I'm enjoying Shallan's story more than Kaladin's so far. Dalinar remains in a solid third place. At least for this section, Shallan seems to be the one playing in the high stakes game.
Mod
She's supposed to be the focus of this book. Kaladin is still my favorite. But Shallan is right up there.
Rob wrote: "She's supposed to be the focus of this book. Kaladin is still my favorite. But Shallan is right up there."I think it's just that, in this section, things were generally going his way. I'm sure he'll be more exciting as stuff gets more exciting around him.
I'm only on chapter 3 but I already can't stand Shallan.
I actually believe Jasnah is really dead, which is blowing my mind a bit. It's not a sure thing, and I realize even tho the journal entries make no mention of her return, that doesn't matter as Navani is writing her POV at the time with only mention of what she missed when looking back in hindsight. There's a couple of things that bothered me - it was obvious the "new kid" on the boat was bad news. And suddenly I can't remember the other - but these are minor quibbles. Oh yeah, the whole just act like you're in power and others will obey you is a bit far fetched.
The visions of Dalinar remain my favorite parts.
Mod
I don't get that at all...maybe because you didn't explain it. But I like her a lot.
Mod
That initially rubbed me the wrong way too. Personally I've never been a person full of confidence and swagger. However in thinking about it, it's really just social engineering.
From what I've read about social engineering that sort of thing does work often in real life. If you know enough (slang, process, names of important people) and act the right way you can go pretty far with most people.
It's probably a lot harder to in person than over the phone/on a PC which is where most of the stuff I've read about takes place, but I wouldn't say it's that far fetched.
Oh it definitely does work - from being an actress I learned a ton about social engineering, as you call it. And I was able to incorporate many tricks into real life quite easily. One actor game is to play mirror, i.e. just like it sounds, mirror the other person until you can't even tell who started the move. This is an extremely useful interview technique, doing it subtly of course! Ex if the interviewer is sitting forward you do too. This gets you both in the same frame and slowly you become the leader. Another is like what Shallan is doing, the status game. Play high status and you not only be able to affect others but you feel more powerful, it does work. But to make people do the opposite of what they want? Like make a captain go where he has no desire? I dunno, far fetched!
But again, really a minor quibble.
My thoughts:1. Jasnahs death is blowing my mind.
2. I really wish Kaladin would tell Dalinar he is a surge binder.
3. I think/hope Adolin and Kaladin become allies/friends. I was thinking Adolin would be a good person to help Kaladin train with his new abilities because he is formidable fighter.
4. I liked how Shallon got picked up by Kaladin's old slaver.
Rob wrote: "Dara wrote: "I'm only on chapter 3 but I already can't stand Shallan."I don't get that at all...maybe because you didn't explain it. But I like her a lot."
I don't even know why I don't like her. I just don't. Her constant drawing drives me nuts for some reason and she comes off kind of whiny to me. I can't really explain why I hate Mark Wahlberg either but I know I want to punch him in he face.
Mod
Oh wow. I didn't realize that's who it was. Nice insight.
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Dara wrote: "I don't even know why I don't like her. I just don't. Her constant drawing drives me nuts for some reason and she comes off kind of whiny to me."
I don't know anyone who seems to read like you do. You seem to pick up and put down books without finishing them a lot. That would drive me crazy. lol.
I'm a very moody reader. I do try to go back to them though. I put down both Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained but finished them. Throwing The Martian has helped me with WoR already.Maybe I find Shallan annoying cause I'm picturing Sophie Turner (Sansa) as her. Maybe I should change that image...
Mod
Well Mark Wahlberg IS an arrogant smarmy roid using asshole, no wonder you want to punch him in the face! But Shallan, heehee methinks the lady doth protest too much, is there something in yourself that you don't like that you see in her?
I love Michael Welan's endpaper portrait of Shallan. Can't get it out of my head anymore. That's how I got rid of Sansa :)Her behavior is sometimes annoying with all that hyper-intelligent wittyness. I think, WoT's tugging braids somehow transferred to Shallan's painting pictures. But at least it has meaning here and I really love those illustrations by "her" in the book.
BTW what is the thing with glove on one hand, were we given a reason for that? One hand seen is OK but not the other?
Jake wrote: "My thoughts:2. I really wish Kaladin would tell Dalinar he is a surge binder.
3. I think/hope Adolin and Kaladin become allies/friends. I was thinking Adolin would be a good person to help Kaladin train with his new abilities because he is formidable fighter.
4. I liked how Shallon got picked up by Kaladin's old slaver. "
2. I don't. Because the next sentence would need to be "Kaladin slaid the dark god." or whatever. I love it that no one is coming out so soon! But Dalinar won't know things for a long time, I think. Others should come first.
3. But but but Kaladin should surely get a shardSPEAR IMHO with all his background. And Adolin would be zero help there.
4. Yeah that was nice. It is one of those cases where we see the same persons reflected from different perspectives. Which will be far more interesting as soon as Shallon encounters Kaladin (not only by claiming boots).
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "BTW what is the thing with glove on one hand, were we given a reason for that? One hand seen is OK but not the other?"It's a weird cultural quirk to give the world some depth. And, much like with the Aiel in WoT and the whole covering their faces and only use spears thing, I'm really looking forward to discovering the root of the safehand. Sadly, I imagine it won't be revealed until much, MUCH later in the series.
Mod
Not even close. In fact you might have hit on exactly why I DON'T find her annoying. Compared to Egwene or Nynaeve she's extremely pleasant.
I don’t dislike Shallon but she isn’t one of my favorite characters. It is tough not to compare her to my favorite characters, Kaladin, Dalinar, and Adolin whose qualities are almost opposite. I don’t like the reluctance, secrecy, and whininess of Shallon. It seems to take her forever to make any kind of decision and unless I’m crazy she has a shard blade, but doesn’t seem to ever want to call it forth, even to defend her own life. In the Wok I continually thought, why don’t you just tell Jasnah about your family? She has shown you she is not an unkind woman?But I do feel like she is growing and will continue to do so. I’m very interested to see how she will react when she reaches the shattered plains.
Rob wrote: "Yeah, I don't see that at all. If she reminds me of anyone it's Hermonie Granger."I thought of Hermione as well but Shallan isn't as strong-willed (at least not yet for me).
Lori (Hellian) wrote: "Well Mark Wahlberg IS an arrogant smarmy roid using asshole, no wonder you want to punch him in the face! But Shallan, heehee methinks the lady doth protest too much, is there something in yourself that you don't like that you see in her? "
He is. Fuck that guy. Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Don't think so but now you have me thinking more!
The safehand thing drives me nuts! I don't mind adding cultural quirks but this one is so illogical. You need your hands! It's so dumb.
Re: the safe hand, yeah I'd like to know the reason and it interests me just because I can't figure it out. It's not for modesty since the other hand is fine. (speaking of which is it always the same hand? Or is it the dominant one?) It's only women, so I imagine it has something to do with power, did women once have some kind of power in their hand? Is it really for protection (SAFEhand) or to keep a woman down? I know there's no answers yet, but I'm alert for clues. Of which so far there are none!
Mod
Women are generally the only ones who learn to read and write, which seems just as dumb to me. Probably more so.
Speaking of dumb cultural practices, how about foot binding? I'm sure we could list out a ton of things far worse.
I find it an intriguing detail..
Dara wrote: "The safehand thing drives me nuts! I don't mind adding cultural quirks but this one is so illogical. You need your hands! It's so dumb. "
And real-world beauty customs make so much sense? Do a Google search on foot binding or corsets and tell me that keeping a hand covered is outrageous. Strange? Sure. So is covering a woman's breasts or showering every day, depending on your frame of reference.
Plus, I agree with Sky and Lori. There's probably some reason for it, somewhere back in the Shadowdays. This is Sanderson; he has a reason for pretty much everything.
And real-world beauty customs make so much sense? Do a Google search on foot binding or corsets and tell me that keeping a hand covered is outrageous. Strange? Sure. So is covering a woman's breasts or showering every day, depending on your frame of reference.
Plus, I agree with Sky and Lori. There's probably some reason for it, somewhere back in the Shadowdays. This is Sanderson; he has a reason for pretty much everything.
There are plenty of other stupid and illogical beauty customs. I wish we had a reason for the safehand.
Mod
? Right after she convinced the ship to break itself apart..
I wonder what it means.?
Mod
I believe that as well. He even suspects that its possbile, or maybe fears it. His vision could be progressing into dream states or something along those lines.
Didn't notice the first, didn't think of the second but now it seems so obvious!!
I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain. He was an interesting character. If you remember Kaladin hated him but also kind of liked him, well until he let that slave die that Kaladin could have saved. I do hope Adolin and Kaladin become friends, I think that would be interesting. I am also looking forward to Adolin's dueling.
Alex, the unclean hand started because that was the used to clean oneself after defecating. In the desert areas not much water, if they even knew about washing. Jews must bury their dead in 2 days, and that started because of health and stink of the corpse in the desert. Even tho no longer necessary, it's still practiced, much to the dismay of modern Jews everywhere when family is all over and yet the funeral must happen pronto!It's so interesting how ancient practices founded on logical reasons assume far greater significance and still go on when no longer necessary.
But Alex brings up the point that exposure of the safe hand causes shame and embarrassment. Is it true that only women read and write? Maybe it's related? Yet now were wondering if Dalinar wrote on the wall? Maybe he was guided by the dead almighty.
Mod
IIRC the masculine and feminine arts (i.e. that only women can read/write) are part of Vorin teaching. That means they mostly only apply in Alethkar, Jah Keved, and Kharbranth. Some Thaylens also follow those customs, but I think the only ones we know for sure do are the crew of The Wind's Pleasure, who might have picked it up because they trade in Jah Keved so much.
Also, the writing on Dalinar's wall was in glyphs, which men (or at least a large number of men) can read and write. It's only true writing, in the 'women's script,' that's unmasculine.
Also, the writing on Dalinar's wall was in glyphs, which men (or at least a large number of men) can read and write. It's only true writing, in the 'women's script,' that's unmasculine.
Rob wrote: "Oh yeah. Did anyone else notice that the emblem for Shallan's chapters changed between 8 and 10/11.? Right after she convinced the ship to break itself apart..
I wonder what it means.?"
That's "Pattern", the Cryptic spren.
There is one Version for her Flashbacks in ch 10 and the regular one in ch 11
Jake wrote: "2. I really wish Kaladin would tell Dalinar he is a surge binder." Does Kaladin know that at this point in the story?
Rob wrote: "Yeah, I don't see that at all. If she reminds me of anyone it's Hermonie Granger."
I don't picture that at all (or Sansa). And the artwork on the inside covers is not what I pictured either. I was picturing more of a Mediterranean, olive skinned girl. I can live with it though.
Mod
Maybe not by that name, or the extent of his abilities, but he knows he can do crazy stuff from ingesting stormlight.
Rob wrote: "Maybe not by that name, or the extent of his abilities, but he knows he can do crazy stuff from ingesting stormlight."Yeah, that's fine. I only asked because Kaladin is only just beginning to think of himself as something more. But I do now recall Kaladin observing Dalinar in this way.
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Also, I'm loving the book so far. There's a lot of setup in these initial chapters, but the worldbuilding tidbits that Sanderson has given us so far have been great.
I don't think Jasnah is dead. My guess is as good as any for how she escaped but I'm going to need more than what happened on the boat to convince me that she's dead.
As a note on the 'is Jasnah dead?' question:Jasnah, after Shallan manipulates light, notes that they aren't the same. By that, she means of the same order of the KR but they both can soulcast. Since Shallan is clearly a Lightweaver (transformation and illumination surges) then Jasnah must be an Elsecaller (transformation and transportation surges). So I'd say Jasnah has transported somewhere to save herself.
note: written without knowing what actually happened and thus will be proven wrong (or least, not entirely correct) in the future.
I don't have much to add to what others have said here. I was a bit shocked by Jasnah's death but I feel like it makes a lot of sense for it to happen. Whether or not she's really dead, this forces Shallan to figure some things out on her own, and to see if she can really grow into what Jasnah obviously thinks she will. I also liked the idea of Shallan being betrothed to Adolin.I didn't know what to make of Kaladin in this section. I felt like he had such a high point in WoK, now he's back to reality. I can already tell I'm going to have to re-read WoK and WoR back-to-back "soon" after I finish WoR.
Mod
As far as Kaladin, this book is definitely an adjustment from the first because he was the focus of that and while important here, Shallan is the focus this time around.
Please keep all discussion to the events and speculation to the Part 1 (Chapters 1-12).
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