What do you write and why?

[J.A.]

Lol. I haven't heard of any thus far K but I'll keep an ear to the ground ;)

6 novels in two years is pretty good going if you can write them in that time!

[K.]

I try to write for an hour a day. As with everyone on here, sometimes that hour could be 3000 words if you hit a sweet spot, other times it's 10 words, delete, 5 words, delete, go to facebook ;)

Merri Hyatt (RIP -sadly she passed away a few weeks back) helped me a lot over at absolutewrite. She had clocked up 100 titles in 5 years of writing (mainly romance) and a few of them were selling VERY well indeed. So hard to juggle everything with day job, promotion and family -not to mention the first few steps being the hardest!

[J.A.]

Total agreement with all of that. I average 2-3k words a day but some days only manage to open my WIP and stare at it gormlessly! My absolute record is 27,000 words in 6 hours. It just went like white heat and I wrote the last quarter of the book. Was drained for days afterwards though.

[K.]

That is insane! I have done close to 10,000 in a day but that's with the whole thing mapped out so I was effectively just "colouring in" the plot. I average about the same as yourself, so (theoretically) I should be able to produce a first manuscript in about 2 months, with editing, fine tuning, tightening, the cover, preparing for print etc. it should take around 5 months....

So two a year not out of reach IF you can keep the 2000 per day up!

[J.A.]

That's the big IF isn't it ? ;) yeah I don't actually recommend writing 27K in 6hrs - though it's nowhere near to Robert Louis Stevenson who wrote the strange case of dr jeckle and mr Hyde in 24 hours, ( in longhand with a quill!) burned it after his wife begged him to because she hated it so much and then wrote it again in another 24hours.

Being a writer must make you a bit mental!

[Micah]

I don't know if I could even physically type 27,000 words in 6 hours.

The only time I bothered to keep count I think I averaged about 625 words an hour. On an average evening I'd spend about 4 hours writing and turn out about 10 pages (2,500 words). But I was also doing some editing while I wrote. I'd edit the last 5 pages written, then carry on writing.

Once I'm finished a manuscript, though, my editing process is a lot longer and more laborious. I haven't been able to afford an editor yet (book cover design is expensive enough for the limited sales I have so far), so I'm more paranoid about editing. I probably read and edit the whole work ten or more times during the process before even passing it on to test readers...then do it another half dozen times.

[J.A.]

Ah but I can't edit as go - I have to swap hats, usually on different days too. Ultimately. learning to edit well yourself makes for a cheaper bill and more effective job when you can afford an editor, as there is less for them to fix.

I can only account for the 27K by saying that I think I was in some kind of fugue state.

[Micah]

My reason I go back a few pages and read/edit before I start writing new material is so I can recapture the mood, pace and character emotional states of the preceding section. I found when I started writing cold, my writing was more influenced by my own mood and I'd end up with jarring transitions that were problematic in later editing.

It also helps you remember any new ideas or characters you've recently added, so it helps with continuity.

I would limit myself to 5 pages because otherwise I would start reading/editing from the beginning of the story and ultimately never finish writing the damned thing!

[Richard]

I write using pen and paper and 1000 words is a very good day - and, even then, it needs to be put away for a month or two, slept on, hauled back out and rewritten, slept on some more... I've had those 'fugues' too though occasionally, three or four hours at full throttle - or in a sort of extra gear (and state of mind) I didn't even know existed. The mystery is that what goes down on paper during those is invariably finished stuff - right first time and never needing anything else doing to it thereafter. This is so at odds with my usual plodding mode, it raises two questions: first, what is wrong with us, why can't we write like that all the time, what holds us back? And second, while it's happening, what is it that's happening?

In fact, that's a question I've been meaning to post somewhere here for some time: where does it all come from? With non-fiction I understand it (I think) - an essay say: you read up on the subject, mull it over for yourself for a while, your brain processes all that, you write your essay. But what about fiction - is it the same process (more convoluted maybe, but essentially the same) or quite different? While you're actually writing, particularly in 'fugue' mode rather than just plodding, what exactly is happening? Where does all this stuff come from?

[Micah]

Where does it come from?

I've always said that a mind is like a garden. If you shovel enough sh!t into it, something's bound to grow.

Creativity is, I believe, comes from a process rooted in the mind's ability to make connections between disparate elements. But those elements have to be in your mind, even if you're unaware that somewhere along your life's path you absorbed it.

That fugue state you mention is a sort of self-induced trance that allows your mind to make those connections and channel them into something new without your rational mind playing roughshod over the process. It's a delicate balance, a walk along the razor's edge between too much control and self-knowing intent and utter random blathering.

I've experienced it in the visual arts, in music composition, in writing, and indeed in something as seemingly clinical as database programming. Time stands still, concentration is intense, and yet you're kind of in an unfocused gaze...And it all just comes pouring out.

[Jay]

I like writing books that push people. I actually used to be crazy about scary books, Goosebumps when I was a lot younger. It was fun for me to see what people were like under duress and not in the sappy “everybody wins” kind of way. It’s why I still write the way I do. Pressure doesn't bring out the best in everyone and that’s always fascinated me.

[K.]

RL Stine has to be one of the most underated authors of all time. Goosebumps were HUGE in the 1990s and everybody read them. He was churning them out to the tune of 10 a year at some point. He understood the idea of what scared kids just enough to be acceptable. Very hard to get it right too!

NOW THAT is serious writing...he's putting our efforts of 10,000 per day to shame!

[Jay]

K. wrote: "RL Stine has to be one of the most underated authors of all time. Goosebumps were HUGE in the 1990s and everybody read them. He was churning them out to the tune of 10 a year at some point. He unde..."

Your comment makes me wish there was a like button. :) I remember being younger and thinking this must be what horror books are before I realized they were just scary. And there always seemed to be more.

[J.A.]

I also really liked the goosebump books. The teen tracks horror imprint had some good ones - Caroline B Cooney's trilogy, the fog, the storm and the fire were my favorites :)

[Richard]

>62: Micah, it would be interesting to hear some converse opinions, but I do tend to agree with you - which, in turn, raises a couple more questions.

First, if everything you write - everything you can imagine - is just the real world broken up minutely, the pieces reshuffled and recombined deep in your mind, then does originality (true originality in the out-of-nowhere sense) actually exist?

And second, could a sufficiently capable computer, something approximating to the complexity of the human mind, write decent novels? I seem to remember that Julia's job in 1984 was operating the novel-writing machines, so is this another Orwellian idea on the brink of coming true (and, incidentally, putting all us authors out of a job)?

[Micah]

Richard wrote: "First, if everything you write - everything you can imagine - is just the real world broken up minutely, the pieces reshuffled and recombined deep in your mind, then does originality (true originality in the out-of-nowhere sense) actually exist?"

True originality comes, I think, from extrapolating on those reshuffled connections and seeing beyond them. That is, finding unforseen relationships between disparate elements and springboarding off of that relationship rather than its parent parts.

It would be really interesting to see brain scans of people in a creative fuge.

Richard wrote: "And second, could a suffiently capable computer, something approximating to the complexity of the human mind, write decent novels?"

And who says it hasn't already been done...and with a computer nowhere near as complex as a human mind? :D

http://singularityhub.com/2012/12/13/...

[Richard]

I guess there are some philosophers (and psychologists too) who'd say that computers have been writing novels for several thousand years already!

Interesting article though - and a bit depressing, at first, the thought of machines ousting authors. But on second thoughts, perhaps that depends on whether you look at it as an author or as a reader: as computers go on increasing in capability - beyond the human brain for the first time - they might produce fiction (science fiction say) far more imaginative than any human author could do. So writing may be finished, but reading could be about to enter a new golden age.

[R.L.]

I started out with the British suspense/murder mystery because that's what I love to read. Then the middle-grade fantasy came to me and I wrote it. I'm not onto a YA coming of age/historical fiction. I've also got several picture books that I'm working on in the background because I illustrate also.

[D.]

I chose to write YA fantasy because I love reading the genre. I think it's a perfect arena in which to tell the story of a young woman who lives in a world where sexism is literally unthinkable and gender stereotypes do not exist. I love the fantasy genre because you can do almost anything you want if you set up and then mind the basic rules of the world you've created. I also love the idea that you can really "get your myth on" with fantasy. I also have a paranormal romance on the back burner, and once I'm done with my first trilogy, I'll move on to that series and have some fun.

[Caleb]

I write to tell stories. It might sound trite, but there it is. A good story has to have all of the elements present in order to work, but as a consumer, it seems that when the writer focuses on the story itself and not the characters, or the setting, or the dialogue, or whatever overmuch then the end result stays as true as possible to the core ideas they set out to convey.

Stories are hard to just flow out onto the page, though, at least for me. I have to let them rattle around for weeks, months, or years before I'm ready to try telling them. The trickiest part, it seems, is keeping an individual entry, be it a short story, novella, novel, or even sub-series interesting on its own merits while keeping the bow pointed where I want the good ship Story to go.

I've actually got a setting called Seeds of Humanity which will cross into at least three separate genres (fantasy, space opera, and sci-fi/techno-thriller) over more than a dozen novels in order to tell the whole 'story.' I think it will be pretty interesting if I can do it right, but the trick is to stay true to the story every step of the way.

[K.P.]

I've been told that I write new adult literary pulp no matter what the genre (fantasy, science fiction, etc). My books are hard to classify, as I cross genre and am not a strict genre writer. I write about a lot of things. I have a lot of stories to tell. :D

I dont count how many words I write a day - I tend to choke. I draft first, edit second (different hat). Though I tend to write doorstoppers (my shortest novel was 250 pages, my longest was 715!), I can spit out some short stories and novellas (rare for me, but possible).

[Caleb]

I actually find that writing my mainline books in a given series is usually laborious, especially in the middle sections. The beginnings are easy, as are the endings, but the middles are always tough.

Then when I'm done with the book, as I'm editing it I think to myself "what plot points need further explanation, but there doesn't seem to be room to do so here?" The answer invariably sees me write a novella between 20-35k words.

It's oddly liberating not thinking "I have to get to 100k words before this project is done," and I've found that it opens possibilities up for me when I create supplementary pieces that expand on the story I'm trying to tell. Sometimes I set out thinking it will be around 30k words, and I end up just north of 20k but the story was told. Other times the opposite happens.

My novels are more like 'work,' while my novellas are a lot more relaxed and fun to produce. I can narrow the focus and just try to have fun with them.

[K.P.]

I read a lot of books. As for writing, I've been told I write new adult and literary pulp, and I tend to stick with fantasy, science fiction and psychological thrillers (and all their sub genres that go with it). however, i'm not a strict genre writer - though fantasy and sci-fi are my favs - and cross genre a lot, which ends up making my books hard to market.

i used to write YA back in the day, but was told it was too dark and violent, so after several novels and a bunch of rejections later (I lost count after 600) I hadn't written that genre in almost 15 years.

I've been dusting off my old stuff and reprinting them. however, i just find the closest genre the book represents and run with it, since I can't find anything similar to what i write. :)

[K.]

KP, firstly I love your hair -mine is slowly disappearing sadly. Secondly, I would give your YA stuff another shot with a modern edit. That market gets darker and darker and there are virtually no taboos now. Definitely a more mature market now...

[J.A.]

I was about to suggest the same thing as K, KP (ok that looks weird written like that.) Teen fic and new adult fic is much grittier and darker now. Holly Black's Tithe trilogy for instance or Patrick Ness' Chaos Walking sequence. Non of it s nasty for nastiness sake but YAs want stuff that explores darker territory now.

[K.P.]

K. wrote: "KP, firstly I love your hair -mine is slowly disappearing sadly. Secondly, I would give your YA stuff another shot with a modern edit. That market gets darker and darker and there are virtually no ..."

Thanks :) I've been growing the Afro for 10 years now. It's a lot more atomic-sized now than in that pic (it's 2 years old lolz!)

I've edited my old YA books and going to put them to print soon. They're still dated (payphones, beepers, smoking in resturants!) but that would mean a complete overhaul and I'm not sure how to truly 'modernise' the whole thing.

[Dave]

Yep, one of the biggest reasons I don't read YA these days is not my age, but that I simply don't enjoy dystopian fiction.

[K.P.]

J.A. wrote: "I was about to suggest the same thing as K, KP (ok that looks weird written like that.) Teen fic and new adult fic is much grittier and darker now. Holly Black's Tithe trilogy for instance or Patri..."

Yeah, I've noticed the YA market's changed a lot in 15 years. Given how the market is now, and looking at my old stuff, my work seems so quaint nearly in comparison O_O

[K.]

I think Junk by Burgess started it all off by having his main characters shooting up and having underage sex. After that all is fair game. They certainly are different from when i was that age group!

As for being "dated", I wouldn't worry, they all are as soon as they are written. You could go the other way and make them VERY 1990s.

And yeah I would love a big afro. Mine just grows into a bowl that gets thicker and thicker. Can't even grow it long =(

[Scott]

J.D. wrote: "I actually can't lock myself into any one genre.

One big philosophy of publishing is that you should do just that, so that all the readers out there will know they can rely on you in one narrow ..."

Interesting post...I also find myself often writing outside the conventional boundaries of 'fiction' - ie the various genre stratifications that have been introduced to smooth over marketing and (so it seems to me) restrict pure, undiluted expression by creating a standard of expectations. I look around and I see people writing for very particular niches, and wonder if they are actually writing what they *want* to be writing. Seems like following your true muse often results in things that are non-categorizable, or at least fuzzily defined by genre classification, playing with various fantasy/sci-fi/ magical realism/horror standards; at this point I usually want any book that I'm reading to play freely rather than plod through the semi-expected motions. There's a word for this, which is syncretism - pulling what you love out of various genres, mashing them together, finding their balance and internal resonance.

[Scott]

I write (I suppose if I had to hunt for a definition) dark/epic fantasy, though I have a very broad reading/writing interest and hope to delve into all sorts of subgenres in the future. Interested in absurdism, metaphysics, sci-fi/fantasy blends, creeping Lovecraftian horror...I write because I'm filled with words and stories that demand my attention, and rollicking along vicariously with my characters is one of the greatest mortal delights I know! It's a nature thing: a star must emit light and I need to write, even if no-one ever reads my work. Though that's not the ideal situation, of course...

[K.P.]

Scott wrote: "I write (I suppose if I had to hunt for a definition) dark/epic fantasy, though I have a very broad reading/writing interest and hope to delve into all sorts of subgenres in the future. Interested ..."

TOTALLY FEELZ

I'm in the same boat with ya, Scott. I keep hammering out the books, despite them not making money, depsite constantly getting told 'it's not my cuppa', despite all extra work I do to get folks to notice. I write because I have stories to tell and need to keep my head on. If it weren't for writing doorstoppers, I really wouldn't have a reason to live :)

[Garry]

Cool thread. I've been discussing in another thread about the difference between speculative and science fiction because of this disambiguation between genre's when marketing my book.

I know for sure some readers will turn away from sci-fi, but would enjoy my stories (because I know some of my readers). So I market as speculative when I can, but if the choice isn't there, I market as sci-fi.

Because I'm not dealing with 'world building' or space opera, I think it helps to offer a slightly different description for those who wouldn't normally go for that kind of thing.

Why do I write? Because I always have since being a kid! First time I read 'Lord of The Rings' around the age of ten, I immediately started writing my own fantasy story. It was rubbish and a rip off - but it started me off. Now I'm trained as a creative writer through University, and have found my own voice, and I just love it (even if it is hard work).

Never intended to write speculative fiction, I just found that quirky ideas about modern trends projected into a future setting was what interested me. Sometimes I stray into horror/paranormal and even surreal 'meta' fiction, it really depends for me on the motivating spark of an idea that kicked it all off.

Does anybody here ever sit down to write without an initial concept/idea? I rarely, if ever do that. Just ends up in a staring contest with a blank screen or page!

[Garry]

Hi Shanna - it must be hard work to keep up that research for an entire series. I featured two time travel short stories in my collection, one set in 16th Century England and the other in 17th Century Cremona (Italy). The Italian story also featured Antonio Stradivari (the violin maker) so even for just a few thousand words I had to research carefully.

It was fun, but it wouldn't half slow me down if I had to do that level of research for a whole book, let alone a collection! I can see how interesting it must be for you though - I learned a lot in just a short time. Had to stop myself from getting carried away reading research/wikipedia pages all day! Do you have to be very disciplined?

[[deleted user]]

Hey, my name is Royce. I mainly write sci-fi action/adventure. But I also like to throw a little dystopia in the mix. I have free short stories on my website if anyone wants to check it out.

[J.A.]

Hey Royce :)

Why not put up a link for us lazy folks in the 'book market' folder or the beta reads / book exchange area? It all sounds right up my particular street but I always like reading about how other writers come up with ideas and get to writing them.

[Scott]

K.P. wrote: "Scott wrote: "I write (I suppose if I had to hunt for a definition) dark/epic fantasy, though I have a very broad reading/writing interest and hope to delve into all sorts of subgenres in the futur..."

So many authors that I love have languished in obscurity and died as a result of their toil. The act of creation is all about expanding the infinite boundaries...and often that brings a stigma. And yet the seed is sown, even if you die penniless vomiting up your bowels in the gutter the seed is sown...in fact it often seems that adversity is a major contributor to truly revelatory work. Pressure makes diamonds and the heartiest plant thrusts up through the monotony of concrete. Make it, put it out there, and keep making it, even if the world goes beyond turning a blind eye and actually scourges you for the creative act. If it does, chances are you're on to something...

[[deleted user]]

Thanks for the idea J.A.

[Garry]

Shanna wrote: "Garry wrote: "Hi Shanna - it must be hard work to keep up that research for an entire series. I featured two time travel short stories in my collection, one set in 16th Century England and the othe..."

In some ways I suppose getting history within living memory right is harder than constructing a distant past/future, because there are people who have real experience of the time and can pick holes in it! Must help though to have real people's testimony to work with. Sounds good.

[Michael]

Maybe I'm an oddball but I started out in fantasy, dabbled in literary fiction (whatever that is), switched to poetry, then eventually got to the point where I write fantasy (especially dark/epic fantasy) and poetry pretty equally. If I had to ask myself why I chose these two genres, I guess I'd have to say that I'm most driven to write in the genres that I most enjoy reading. Put another way, I love that charge I get when I read something I love, and for me, that usually goes along with an urge to see if I can maybe do that, too.

[J.]

J.D. wrote: "I actually can't lock myself into any one genre."

I absolutely agree. There are too many wonderful types of stories in many different genres that I could never say, "I'm gonna only write, or read, in that genre."

With that said, in the past, whenever a non-scifi friend and I got into a discussion about the merits of science fiction I'd ask one question. "What if you took a Harlequin book, written today, and some how transported it 50 years ago?"

They'd say, "Yeah, go on."
I'd answer, "It would be a science fiction book."
Then I'd get the "you got a second nose" look.
With a smile I'd respond, "Look. You got the uber jet planes, the mega yatchs, the mega ship cruisers, the mobile phone, the hybrid cars, the tablets, large screen LED TVs, yada yada yada. And that is science fiction. You still got people and plot and things going on, but you got technology, too."
Then I'd get a nod, maybe a "I see your point."

So, I can and do read and write mainly sci-fi, but I also read and write in other genres: action-adventure, alternate history, fantasy, mystery, and psycho drama.

[Dave]

J. wrote: "J.D. wrote: "I actually can't lock myself into any one genre."

I absolutely agree. There are too many wonderful types of stories in many different genres that I could never say, "I'm gonna only wr..."

I see where you're going, but I don't agree with the contention that if you took a Harlequin (or Mills & Boon) back 50 or even 150 years it would suddenly become science fiction, because setting is not genre. It would become a futuristic romance, but that's not science fiction, regardless of what gadgets you throw in the mix.

Science fiction, as a genre is fundamentally about ideas. It's about asking an impossible question, "What if...?" and building a story out of the answer.

Romance on the other hand, is fundamentally about relationships. The hypothetical romance transposed to the past could be rewritten without the futuristic elements and still work as a story, which is something that can't happen with SF. It works in romance, because the story is the relationship and that depends on character, not setting.

Lots of books take elements from multiple genres, and there are elements that put them into one genre or another, but setting isn't a key determinant.

[Dave]

Thanks Shanna.

Also, for those looking for ways to make 20th century historical settings come alive, might I suggest http://www.travelfilmarchive.com/ - it has tons of movies from all over the world.

I found it really helped me with my current story which is set in an alternate 1937 Indonesia.

[Dave]

Yeah, I found it was incredibly helpful - part of my story is set in Batavia (now Jakarta) and I discovered that it was probably the last city in the world to have steam trams with fireless locomotives.

The idea is that you fill a pressure vessel about 3/4 with hot water, and then pump the top full of high pressure steam (about 350-450 PSI/2400-3100 kPa). You draw steam out from the top to run a standard double/triple expansion steam engine.

The really cool part, at least for me, is that it produces its own steam while in use. The trick is the pressure. The super-high pressure steam means the water goes supercritical, it's above the standard boiling temperature, but the pressure's too high so it stays liquid. Then, as you vent steam to drive the tram, the internal pressure drops, which lowers the internal boiling point so some of the water flashes over to steam, replenishing the supply.

According to what I've read, they were good for about 30 miles/50km before the internal temperature and pressure dropped too far to produce steam.

And yes, I've already blown one up in my story :)

[Matthew]

That's fascinating Dave. Have you read Pavane by Keith Roberts? The detail of steam technology in an alternative 1960s Britain is beautifully executed

[K.P.]

Dave wrote: "And yes, I've already blown one up in my story :)"

Can never go wrong with explosions! XD

[Dave]

Matthew wrote: "That's fascinating Dave. Have you read Pavane by Keith Roberts? The detail of steam technology in an alternative 1960s Britain is beautifully executed"

I tried to read it a few times back in the seventies when I was a kid (my very small local library had a copy), but I was never quite able to finish it.

[Matthew]

Well, being a portmanteau novel I did find I was mourning a bit every time I realised we'd left the previous characters and had to learn a new set. I loved the world though, the 'road trains', the semaphore towers and the guild of signalmen, the inquisition...

[Turhan]

Ok, so I checked out your profile Jules and I have to say I'm kinda envious of where you live. I was born and grew up in London, England and moved to New Jersey, USA where I currently live. Back in 06 I briefly moved back to England -Somerset County- for a little over a year so I know 'something' about Dorset and the 'Cotswolds' if that's what you mean about Cotswold Way. I miss being in England but will make my way back there permanently as soon as my circumstances allow it.

Well, now that I've kinda got my jealousy about your location out of the way lol ... I don't have nearly as much experience as an author as most people on these boards but I do have one novel under my belt and I've now started the 2nd book of the trilogy. I have always had a creative spirit, whether it's painting artwork, fashioning new things out of old things 'repurposing' etc. I have to say that, writing, is an incredibly fulfilling creative outlet for my soul and allows me to escape all the demons and monsters that chase me in my dreams and sometimes in real life.

Recently ... very recently, and somehow, I've managed to set up a Wordpress website/book review blog. There are only two reviews on there right now and absolutely nothing else, yet, but as someone way wiser than myself once said, "it's about the journey, not the destination" or at least some words to that effect. So that's it for now, I'll see you guys around here somewhere and look forward to saying hey to you all, :)

[J.A.]

Dorset and the Cotswolds (yep, that's where I meant) are stunning. I do find I miss the sea, where I live now. I lived on the south coast for most of my childhood and then went to university on the northwest coast of Wales before returning to live in Weymouth, Dorset again. Being - to me - so far inland has been a bit of an adjustment.

There are more experienced writers and author-publishers on here than me also, but we're a friendly lot and everyone seems to gain by sharing knowledge and experiences.

Had a peek at your book and it looks right up my street. I will have to come back to it when I get my current huge pile of writing out of the way :)

We do have a thread - possibly entitled facebook? - where we can all put up web addresses and twitter/ FB addresses too, if your interested. Handy to network with other authors, especially in similar genres - their fans may very like you to after all ;)