On the Southern Literary Trail discussion
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Go Set a Watchman
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Go Set a Watchman, Final Impressions_August 2015
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I don't see this. If Atticus only attended one meeting to find out the identity of the men under the hoods he would hardly be involved in illegal activity. Even if her were just there the likelihood that anyone would have been arrested back when this happened is negligible. If the head Klansman was the Methodist minister it is more than likely that other civic luminaries were present.
Tom wrote: "Flash Beagle wrote: "Human is fine but turning Atticus into a simpleton who does not know the law is a different matter. "I don't see this. If Atticus only attended one meeting to find out the id..."
The law is the law. The Klan is known to break the law. Atticus knows that. I agree, no one in that climate would have been arrested if they were planning something; no one would have said anything. Atticus knows that too. His mere presence validates them, which is unfortunate.
Jack makes another statement: ..."For years and years all that man [white man] thought he had that made him any better than his black brothers was the color of his skin."That part is surprisingly honest. (Although tough to even read.) But then he goes on to say, "...a political philosophy foreign to it [the south] is being pressed on it."
How long ago was slavery abolished and the 14th amendment? It is not a 'foreign' policy, it's an ignored, subverted policy.
By making that argument Jack is patronizing the white man: he can't handle the fact that his skin color makes no better than anyone. And just as bad, making excuses for it: gosh, he didn't even know about it. That is totally incredible.
That's just the thing, Flash Beagle - they were wrong and flawed, just as people are in the real world. Sometimes our childhood adoration of parents (or uncles) paints them as perfect, and to me, this was the crux of the story. She discovered that they were highly imperfect and had to reconcile herself with loving them anyway. Notice, though, that she decides NOT to marry Hank. Dawn was saying in the "Initial Thoughts" thread that she has always viewed TKAM as a children's book. I do too - it was a fairy tale where the father was totally Christ-like. In "The Book Thief," we see that same purity in the father figure, and it is in Aslan (Chronicles of Narnia), "The Lion King" - really, all over literature and film when we look for it. Those stories make us feel good because we can revere the parent figure again as we did as children.
Watchman, to me, IS a coming of age story, but at a later time in life. It is in deciding to forgive -or at least come to resolution with - our parents' transgressions that we truly become adults. The manuscript we just read wasn't fine tuned or edited, so Ms Lee's work here cannot be fairly judged. I respect that in this book, Scout's hero was found to be flawed, and she loved him nonetheless. In her forgiveness of his sins, she brings the whole Christ-like aspect full circle. Plus some cussing ;)
As Kurt would say:WWSD?
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It's interesting that so many people idolized Atticus. I admired him but to me he did what I expected him to do. I was always more interested in Tom Robinson and the idea of justice and injustice. I also never considered To Kill A Mockingbird a fairy tale or child's story. It is a wonderful work of literature.I agree it is a coming of age, for the reader as well as Jean Louise.
And, if anyone is a 'sacrificial lamb' in all of this it is Tom Robinson, not Atticus Finch. Tom is the one to be doing the forgiving.
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Diane wrote: "What about Boo? He was the character that affected me the most. To think of his lonely life in that old house, with nothing to love but Scout and Jem, and that was from afar. He was the Mockingb..."I agree with the points that both you and Flash make. Yes, coming of age story, but not a children's story.
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I was surprised by the number of people who were put off by it, claiming that it was a children's book. That thought never occurred to me until I saw those comments and reread it.
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"Harper Lee is a really good author. I've read everything she's ever written. They found this new one after she died." I interrupted to explain that Harper Lee was not dead, but at 88 was living in an assisted living home, and that this was not a new book at all, but her first attempt before writing TKaM. The lady looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "Now I know for a fact that she died last year." Then she turned back to her friend and continued. "And after she died, they went up in her attic and found a whole trunk full of books that are going to be published."
I just walked away, what else could I do?
Diane wrote: "You guys should get a kick out of this. Yesterday, at the store, I overheard one woman telling another about Go Set a Watchman."Harper Lee is a really good author. I've read everything she's ev..."
What could you do? I guess you could read those other books when they are published and review them for the rest of us.
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I just walked away, what else could I do? "
Well, at least we have that trunk full of books to look forward to when she actually does die.
Diane , I'm speechless which doesn't happen very often . Thanks for sharing that .
Diane wrote: "You guys should get a kick out of this. Yesterday, at the store, I overheard one woman telling another about Go Set a Watchman."Harper Lee is a really good author. I've read everything she's ev..."
You need to write a book of crazy anecdotes about what goes on in that bookstore! Hilarious.
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Diane wrote: "Middle aged lady, old enough to know better, but apparently not as well read as she thinks she is."Ugh!
Diane wrote: "Middle aged lady, old enough to know better, but apparently not as well read as she thinks she is."How can you say that? After all, she has read everything that Harper Lee has written.
As we Southerners would say, "bless her heart."
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I know what that means. That's Southern for 'That woman doesn't have a F@#$*&g clue.'
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It never ceases to amaze me how y'all can slap someone upside the head with honey.
Tom wrote: "LeAnne wrote: "As we Southerners would say, "bless her heart.""I know what that means. That's Southern for 'That woman doesn't have a F@#$*&g clue.'"
You've learned well, Young Grasshopper.
;)
Diane wrote: "You guys should get a kick out of this. Yesterday, at the store, I overheard one woman telling another about Go Set a Watchman."Harper Lee is a really good author. I've read everything she's ev..."
What a character, Diane. I didn't realize you actually live in Maycomb.
LeAnne wrote: "Tom wrote: "LeAnne wrote: "As we Southerners would say, "bless her heart.""I know what that means. That's Southern for 'That woman doesn't have a F@#$*&g clue.'"
You've learned well, Young Grass..."
Really? Is that what it means? I'm completely ignorant here- so southern manners means that one has certain polite expressions that stand for a rude one?
Oh dear, I could never live there- I would mess it all up!!
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Ha! Well, Karen, we sort of parody our southern hospitality and graciousness with this. "Ugh! Darla Mae's potato salad tastes like her husband peed in it. Bless her heart." One can say nearly anything insulting, but when followed with "bless her heart," you're just a good Southern lady concerned about her fellow man.Very tongue in cheek ;)
Diane wrote: "It's just our way of being civilized, Karen. You have to admit, "Bless her heart" sounds much nicer than "She doesn't have a F@#$*&g clue." And it also adds a little pity into the mix."I guess I'm not civilized, lol!
LeAnne wrote: "Ha! Well, Karen, we sort of parody our southern hospitality and graciousness with this. "Ugh! Darla Mae's potato salad tastes like her husband peed in it. Bless her heart." One can say nearly anyt..."Hahaha! Darla Mae's potato salad sucks!
This is better than some of the humor novels I try to read. In the potato salad? Great explanation of the concept, LeAnne!
Kirk wrote: "This is better than some of the humor novels I try to read. In the potato salad? Great explanation of the concept, LeAnne!"I would like to hear more, I find it really interesting as it is so different from what I am used to. And it's funny.
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Diane wrote: "Here's another example, Karen. When someone is visiting, either for a few hours or a few days, and you can't wait for them to leave, then they get ready to go. A southerner will say, "Oh, are you..."Diane, yes! And, Karen - the oldest version of this faux sweetness involved a pineapple (at least here in Louisiana).
As a port city that traded with the West Indies, locals could acquire this tropical fruit, but it was still exceedingly expensive. In the 1700s and 1800s, a Louisiana hostess would place a pineapple in the room of her house guests when she deemed it time for them to leave. Because it was a rare fruit (that traveled well), it was a symbol of friendship, gratitude, and don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-butt. Bless your heart.
Kirk wrote: "This is better than some of the humor novels I try to read. In the potato salad? Great explanation of the concept, LeAnne!"Obviously, you've never sampled my potato salad.
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As a self-identified Westerner, we have a more plain-spoken way of expressing the sentiment. "It's a long way to Dodge. I'm sure you don't want to be late." I suppose that's because bullshit is too plentiful to be of value where I come from.
This thread needs to become a permanent subject. "Southern Women's Training Seminar" to educate those unfamiliar with speaking in code. A subtle art to say the least, I can't wait to learn more!
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I think "Learning to speak Southern" would be a better description.
Loved your comment ealier Tom about ladies being able to "slap someone upside the head with honey". And, yes that is a better title you suggest. I hope it sticks and we get to see more!
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Diane is way ahead of us. HOW TO SPEAK SOUTHERN is already out there. Dianne and LeeAnne, can you please copy your excellent descriptions of Bless her heart comments above over to it so we can continue the conversation there?
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The Klan's history is well-known; even if they do bake-sales, everyone knows the other side.
Atticus is a lawyer: he knows that if the Klan plans ill..."
One possibility that needs to be considered here is that Harper Lee may very well have known the story of State Senator Henry Holman Mize of Alabama. Mize was being touted as a candidate for the next Governor of the State of Alabama. He was from Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I knew him and his family as I was growing up here in Tuscaloosa. When I met him, he was Judge Mize, a Circuit Judge in the Sixth Judicial Circuit, Tuscaloosa County, Alabama.
Briefly his story is this. Mize had served in the Army in World War II. He was a Nuremberg Prosecutor. He returned to his home in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. He was, as I remember the details from his family a sole practitioner of law at the time. He was elected as a State Senator in the Alabama Legislature and was serving in Montgomery, Alabama in 1948.
His family lived in a small, humble house on the west side of the city of Tuscaloosa in the are known as "Newtown." Today, the area is predominantly inhabited by very poor residents. During 1948, the residents were hardly considered wealthy.
During that summer, a Girl Scout campout occurred in Jefferson County, Alabama. It was INTEGRATED. The Klan raided the campout terrorizing young black and white girl scouts and their scout leaders, which included a group of Catholic Nuns. The group of Klansmen were in robes, wearing hoods, with their faces covered. A cross or crosses were burned by the Klansmen at the campout.
News of the raid by Klansmen on the group of young girls and women outraged all Alabama. The incident gained statewide media coverage. It gained nationwide media coverage.
State senator Mize introduced a Bill before the Alabama Senate making it unlawful for individuals to wear a mask in a public assembly. The Bill made no reference specifically to the Klan. The proposed law accomplished its purpose, though. NO individual could wear a mask at any public assembly where a certain number of individuals were pleasant. The Bill passed both the Senate and the House overwhelmingly and was signed into law by sitting Governor "Big" Jim Folsom, a populist Democrat Governor.
The Klan was unmasked. After the Bill became a law, Senator Mize and his family received death threats by telephone on more than one occasion.
He was not re-elected to the Senate. The Klan made its presence known.
Former Senator Mize re-entered the private practice of Law. Later he was elected as a Circuit Judge, a position he held for many years, unopposed.
Judge Mize died of a heart attack at his desk in chambers at the County Courthouse in 1970. The story the unmasking of the Klan in Alabama may be read in whole at Unmasking the Klan: late 1940s coalition against racial violence: http://weldbham.com/blog/2012/07/18/u... .
Ms. Lee was a great student of Alabama History. Her knowledge of it is documented in Mockingbird: A Portrait of Harper Lee by Charles J. Shields. Although it would be conjecture on my part, the story of Henry Holman Mize and his Mask Law was so widely publicized in Alabama, I would be amazed if Ms. Lee did not know the story. Nor would I be surprised if it were the basis of Atticus having joined the Klan to know who the men were beneath the masks.
On a personal note, I have said I have known my share of real life Atticus Finches. Judge Mize was one of those men.
"Lawyer Stevens
Mike wrote: "Flash Beagle wrote: "Uncle Jack's opinions are really interesting.The Klan's history is well-known; even if they do bake-sales, everyone knows the other side.
Atticus is a lawyer: he knows that ..."
Oh wow!! How wonderful and fascinating, thanks for this.
Mike, I really enjoyed your Mize history. Thank for that mask law explanation. Never heard the background. It isn't only down South where the polite phrase may mean a completely different connotation and is used to substitute a general positive where a true reversal is actually the order of the understood meaning. You should hear Sisters of Mercy or large groups of Lithuanian or Polish immigrants in Chicago, their idioms. Most of them are some version of "Such a GOOD girl!" "You always look so neat and clean" (as opposed to beautiful). There are dozens of them.
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The Klan's history is well-known; even if they do bake-sales, everyone knows the other side.
Atticus is a lawyer: he knows that ..."
Thanks for the fascinating story. It's worth mentioning that Alabama isn't the only state that has had a Klan infestation. The Klan took over the government of my home state of Colorado for several years back in the 1920s.
As to Judge Mize's law, it seems that it may have had a pretty big loophole if it only applied to 'any public assembly where a certain number of individuals were pleasant.' ;>)
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The Klan's history is well-known; even if they do bake-sales, everyone knows the other side.
Atticus is a lawyer: h..."
Hah, Tom. Fat fingers on a tiny keyboard. That should have been present. Laughing.
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The Klan's history is well-known; even if they do bake-sales, everyone knows the other side.
Atticus is a lawyer: h..."
Karen, you're very welcome.
So ,finally, this book did not take anything away from my love for TKAM but more importantly it did n t bring anything to it either it was the big literary non event of the year -just my humble opinion
On the Southern Literary Trail
Books mentioned in this topic
Black Like Me (other topics)Peace Like a River (other topics)
The Voice at the Back Door (other topics)
Mockingbird: A Portrait of Harper Lee (other topics)
Go Set a Watchman (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
John Howard Griffin (other topics)Charles J. Shields (other topics)
The Klan's history is well-known; even if they do bake-sales, everyone knows the other side.
Atticus is a lawyer: he knows that if the Klan plans illegal activities and he is there, he can be charged with aiding and abetting. He didn't stumble in off the farm; he is a prominent citizen which makes it even worse.
Human is fine but turning Atticus into a simpleton who does not know the law is a different matter.