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Go Set a Watchman
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Go Set a Watchman, Final Impressions_August 2015
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Aug 02, 2015 08:49AM
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Since I'm viewing this as a draft, in a way I've disassociated it with the final or a final book: drafts are incomplete, need more crafting, balance, real dialogue as opposed to just diatribe.So with that qualification, it feels unfinished, in need of an editor and revisions.
My opinion of Atticus was and still is that he was a good father and believed in the law. His blind spot really shows here though because his views are unconstitutional and his actions are going that way.
Jean Louise (Scout) had a lot of humorous observations, especially the childhood flashbacks, but they began to wear thin and she came off as hypercritical of everyone and at 26 I would hope for more maturity. Also, I wanted to know more about her life in NY. An editor would have helped.
As far as characters and actions, the one who bothered me the most was Uncle Jack. Okay, he's eccentric. But physical abuse, tolerated as it seems to have been here is not acceptable. In order to get Scouts "attention" when she is screaming about Atticus, Uncle Jack belts her right across the mouth, twice, backhand, forehand. Then a dazed Scout is given whiskey and you can tell she is obviously not a drinker. There are other ways Uncle Jack could have done something, and this really taints the fact that she is more amenable to listening and accepting her father's different opinions. Stockholm Syndrome. Interestingly I haven't seen that mentioned. And in a coming of age book, which is the message here, it very much matters "how" someone comes of age.
There is more rancor, and that is understandable, over Atticus being a segregationist: having those views is one thing as long as he still follows the law, but he is not following the law - and that is the big change I see between this book and To Kill A Mockingbird (still my candidate for The Great American Novel) vs a draft-now-officially-published book. Another thing, is he a racist? Well, based on race he wants to deprive one segment of the population of their constitutional rights. If that isn't racist what is? And while he makes it sounds like maybe one day, there is no expiration date on the not-just-yet.
Must say, I'm glad I read it. But if there is another one out there...well, I don't know if I'll read that one. :)
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https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
My general feeling is that both books should be read together with Watchman serving as a companion piece to Mockingbird. I gave a lot of thought to the apparent differences in Atticus's nature and discussed my conclusions in my review. I'm sure that will spur lots of discussion.
Diane wrote: "My attitude toward Scout and her views in this book are based on the fact that I have a 28 year old daughter who is just beginning to learn that not everything in the world is black and white. She..."I finished the book tonight, and had some of the same feelings as Diane about change being complex. I was jotting down some notes to write a review later in the week, and wrote "shades of gray", and decided that the term has taken on new meanings in the last few years.
Change is definitely complex. The lack of maturity, for example, when she saw Atticus at the Klan meeting (mentioned in the 1st impressions thread) not giving her father even a teeny benefit of the doubt, but thinking the worst, was really surprising. It's a kneejerk reaction. Better to blow up a little bit, Hey Dad what were you doing at that meeting? It's the same as when she thought she was pregnant and was ready to jump off the water tower. There should be a little bit of maturation in the intervening years.On the other hand, when she finally mentions it to Uncle Jack, he gives a convoluted answer going back to land owner and tenant. Jean Louise says, 'What about slavery?' Jack says, 'Forget slavery for now.' (paraphrasing, but close). Unfortunately he never goes back to 'what about slavery' and if he had recognized her valid concern Jean Louise might have felt she could talk to someone. As it was left, she really had no one to talk to who would just say, yep, this is what it is and not make excuses. So Jean Louise has my sympathy.
I have finished it and I really don t believe that it needed to be published at all -never thought I d say that
Jane wrote: "I have finished it and I really don t believe that it needed to be published at all -never thought I d say that"I wonder if there is any information still available as to the editor s objections to it ?
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Diane wrote: "Wonder how much money her lawyer has made from it? Maybe the publisher paid her to "find" it."I asked this question elsewhere, Diane, and in fact Jane responded to it, but I also wanted your opinion, since you seem to have fewer objections to its publication than others do (I'm looking in the mirror.). What would have been the response to "Watchman" if "Mockingbird" had never been written or published? Would it have been successful on its own merit? Or would it have experienced a quiet and quick demise and nobody today would have even heard of Harper Lee?
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I doubt if it would have had much impact at all. It doesn't make the bold statement in favor of colorblind justice that Mockingbird does which, I believe is something the country needed desperately at the time. I don't see any target audience that it would resonate with as Mockingbird did.
Tom wrote: "Howard wrote: "What would have been the response to "Watchman" if "Mockingbird" had never been written or published? Would it have been successful on its own merit? Or would it have experienced a q..."Thanks Tom. I haven't read it, of course, but you have confirmed what I believe.
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Well said , Diane !
I meant your previous post but am on my phone so couldn't use reply but I agree as you know about Scout .
Diane wrote: "Howard, I think Watchman would have died an early death and ended up in a remainder bin if published in 1960. As a stand alone book, it's only interest to me is as a piece of literary history. My..."Thanks Diane.
I haven't read it, not because of media reports, but because I think Harper Lee was manipulated into doing something that she had resisted for a half century and something that would never have occurred if her sister were still alive. And I still believe that.
By the way, some of the reviews by media critics weren't negative. I saw several who thought it was a much more believable depiction of an Atticus Finch, one that they could believe. In short, they found "Watchman" to be much more realistic than "Mockingbird," and a couple who even thought it was a better book.
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I would be willing to take that side in a debate.
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Tom wrote: "Howard wrote: "I saw several who thought it was a much more believable depiction of an Atticus Finch, one that they could believe. In short, they found "Watchman" to be much more realistic than "Mo..."More realistic -- and better?
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Definitely not better! More realistic perhaps. Atticus (and his father and his father before him)spent their entire lives in a world that dreaded what would happen if negroes were to exercise their right to vote and become part of the political process. I can only imagine that they would have felt a little like a lion tamer when told he would be deprived of his whip and chair. He doesn't know what the lions will do but he doesn't really care to find out. Atticus is a thoughtful and considerate individual but he still struggles with these fears and wants to defend the only world he knows. He doesn't advocate violence but he does resort to statements that I confess I've made myself, namely that ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to vote.
This Atticus I can understand. I don't agree with him, but I understand him. Conversely, as much as I love him, the walk-on-water paragon of virtue that stood up in court in the 1930s and called a white woman a liar in defense of a negro seems like a bit of a stretch.
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As for TKAM and Atticus as a paragon of virtue, maybe not realistic, but , in my opinion, the reason for the popularity of the classic. Atticus is what we all want to be. How many people have modeled themselves after him, and tried to be better people? That is an awesome superpower Harper Lee gave him.
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Also excellent points. (It is hard to type with my hand raised.)
Tom wrote;" He doesn't advocate violence but he does resort to statements that I confess I've made myself, namely that ignorant people shouldn't be allowed to vote."
I guess that statement also means that lots of ignorant racist white people would not have been allowed to vote either. But that's not what happened during the time period of this book- ignorant white racists were voting, and "negroes" could not, even though many of them were smarter than many of the white people-and not all of them were racists either, as you probably well know. And most enlightened people didn't go to KKK meeting either.
Ignorance is so widespread in the land that if the ignorant are denied the right to vote, there won't be any long waits at the polls come election day. But I guess that wouldn't prevent them from being elected to office.
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If Atticus is to be believed, and he hasn't given us any reason to believe he shouldn't be, his participation in the Klan was brief and done for the purposes of finding out the identity of the men under the hoods. I have to admit, though, that this sounds rather weak, especially since there is no indication that he did anything with this information.
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Don't people elect candidates they feel they can relate to? ;>)
Tom wrote: "Howard wrote: "Ignorance is so widespread in the land that if the ignorant are denied the right to vote, there won't be any long waits at the polls come election day. But I guess that wouldn't pre..."Senator Roman Hruska, from Nebraska, was upset that one of Richard Nixon's nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court was on the verge of being denied confirmation by the Senate on the grounds that he was a mediocre lower court judge.
Senator Hruska, in a speech before the Senate, said:
"Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance? We can't have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos."
The nominee was not confirmed. Unwittingly, the good senator proved that there were also mediocre people in the Congress.
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A practice that has continued to gain in popularity to this day.
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https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."
You make some very good points in your review. I look forward to seeing your contributions to the discussion.
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Diane, while I agree that tolerance of others opinions is an important quality, I found myself not being tolerant of the racist views , even though we , myself included say that Atticus was a product of his time and place . I know that some people think he wasn't racist in GSAW and I think I even read one review ( can't remember where) where the reviewer said he always was but I just don't have tolerance for what Jack and Atticus want Scout to accept. I see the Atticus we know and love in TKAM as the Atticus that Harper Lee wanted us to have if we do indeed think that this was the "rough draft ." Holding on to my idealistic view I guess .
Tolerance for racism should never be tolerated, regardless of time and place.
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The question here is not whether we should tolerate racism but why otherwise rational people such as Atticus and Jack would hold such views in the first place. If we can understand that then we will be better prepared to fight racism.
Tom wrote: "Karen wrote: "Tolerance for racism should never be tolerated, regardless of time and place."The question here is not whether we should tolerate racism but why otherwise rational people such as At..."
You're right Tom, and I can't think of an answer other than fear. But even that word seems inadequate. Hatred? Wanting to feel superior? Ignorance, brainwashing?
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I think you nailed it the first time. Fear makes otherwise rational people act crazy.
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Now, having read the book, I glimpse a different tragedy. Lee was a young writer on a roll, with several novels in mind to write after this one. She wrote none of them. Silence, lifelong. I wonder if the reason she never wrote again was because she knew her terrifyingly successful novel was untrue. In taking the easy way, in letting wishful thinking corrupt honest perception, she lost the self-credibility she, an honest woman, needed in order to write.
Read the entire review here:
Ursula K. Le Guin: A Personal Take on Go Set a Watchman
Tom wrote: "This review by Ursula Le Guin offers a view of Watchman that I haven't read anywhere else. She expresses regret at what Lee's editor did in steering her to write TKaM:Now, having read the book, I ..."Tom, thank you for this link to this brilliant review ,although I am not convinced by it all, I do think it does a good job of reminding us how TKaM could have been a completely different book and gone in a different direction.
It also does a brilliant job of reminding the reader how a 26 year old Southerner may or may not have coped
Tom wrote: "This review by Ursula Le Guin offers a view of Watchman that I haven't read anywhere else. She expresses regret at what Lee's editor did in steering her to write TKaM:Now, having read the book, I ..."
Thank Tom, it's interesting.
Le Guin sounds a bit condescending (not to mention jaded and kind of tired of the whole thing) and there is a bit too much "me" in it. Also since LeGuin is 85 it struck me as funny that she said, "...It hasn’t done any harm to the old woman, and I hope it’s given her pleasure." Hello!?:)
I think Harper Lee's decision to stay out of the public eye as much as possible seems like a better and better decision.
Howard wrote in an earlier post that he had read reviews that thought that the portrayal of Atticus in GSAW was more realistic than in TKAM . As a whole , though , I don't find TKAM unrealistic. What we expected to happen did happen - an all white , male jury found an innocent black man guilty of rape . I also don't think that it's unrealistic for there to have been at least one man , who didn't hold those racist views. So while , these reviewers may think it's unrealistic for Atticus to think that that way , I just don't necessarily agree .I agree with Flash about Le Guin coming across as co descending . I'm reminded of what Diane said about reading the book early so she could form her own opinion. I find these "professional reviews" interesting but what I find more interesting is the genuine gut response of other people here on Goodreads.
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Data Miners Dig for Answers About Harper Lee, Truman Capote and ‘Go Set a Watchman’
Tom wrote: "Here's an interesting article regarding an analysis done on the two books. Thanks to Gerhard in South Africa for the link.Data Miners Dig for Answers About Harper Lee, Truman Capote and ‘Go Set a..."
Thanks Tom, I'll have to take a look.
About the Le Guin article, I had thought about the possibility of Harper Lee's voice being redirected, stymied, whatever, but the problem I had with going down that road is that it leads exactly where Le Guin ended up: villainizing someone for doing the redirecting, stifling, whatever, and changing what would have been her voice. Le Guin wants to then blame the editor and that does not work, is not fair. My 2 cents!
Despite what some may say, Atticus was not a Klansman. He went to one meeting 40 some years prior to Watchman's setting and did so to infiltrate them, so to speak. On page 230, we read: "... All the Klan was then was a political force. There wasn't any cross burning, but your daddy did and still does get mighty uncomfortable around folks who cover up their faces. He had to know who he'd be fighting if the time ever came to - he had to find out who they were."
As for the tale, I considered it was one of a young woman becoming disillusioned with her father just as she has reached adulthood. She learns that he is imperfect in ways she finds utterly objectionable.
Atticus is polite and respectful to the black folks in his community and will not stand idly by when one is falsely charged with rape. He will risk his life to defend him. On the other hand, Jean Louise learns that Atticus also believes that, as a whole, blacks have collectively not seen enough education to be worthy of the right to vote. He sees that right as one to be earned.
For an enlightened man in the 1940's, this dichotomous view towards racial equality seems pretty authentic to me.
Did you know that the author of "The Education of Little Tree" - that charming, coming of age story about a Cherokee boy - was written by a screaming segregationist Klansman? He changed his name after being a speech writer for Wallace. The 40s and 50s were rife with seemingly good men who were also racists - very complex time period to capture in literature.
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I thought "The Education of Little Tree" was a beautiful little book when I read it, and remember being shocked when the author was outed as a Klansman. You're right about that era as depicted in literature, it was a difficult time.
Diane wrote: "Leanne, my perception of the book matches yours. I'm not sure where the "bitter old racist" description of Atticus originated, but I didn't see it that way at all.I thought "The Education of Lit..."
Yes, indeed! Funny, the books we all usually love the best show flawed heroes along with villains that possess some small, redeeming qualities. Atticus was portrayed as so saintlike in TKAM that perhaps many readers who grew up with the book were suddenly as disillusioned as poor Scout.
Just as she screams ugly names at him towards the tail of the book, it would appear that some of the critics reacted viscerally as well. Personally, I like my heroes human.
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Excellent comparison.
On the Southern Literary Trail
Books mentioned in this topic
Black Like Me (other topics)Peace Like a River (other topics)
The Voice at the Back Door (other topics)
Mockingbird: A Portrait of Harper Lee (other topics)
Go Set a Watchman (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
John Howard Griffin (other topics)Charles J. Shields (other topics)
