50 books to read before you die discussion

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Book Discussions Nominated Books > Go Set a Watchman

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message 1: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments August buddy read


message 2: by Buck (last edited Aug 03, 2015 06:37PM) (new)

Buck (spectru) Well I have finished it, and it definitely warrants discussion. I wonder how others are coming along with the reading of this. My memory banks leak; it will begin to seep away. How far along are you?


message 3: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Just started during the night.
Definitely hooked from page 1. The descriptions of Scout's home coming are evocative.

Maybe share your thoughts with spoilers Buck, wouldn't want them to leak off into the atmosphere.


message 4: by Buck (last edited Aug 04, 2015 07:11AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) Lisa wrote: "Just started during the night.
Definitely hooked from page 1. The descriptions of Scout's home coming are evocative.

Maybe share your thoughts with spoilers Buck, wouldn't want them to leak off into the atmosphere."


I've started writing down my thoughts. Otherwise, I wouldn't know anything a week from now.

Scout went through my home town on her way to Maycomb. I'm younger than she, but I remember the way things were. My childhood was in the time and place (The South) of this novel.


message 5: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) I went back and reread the discussion thread for To Kill A Mockingbird. Interesting.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...


message 6: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments When traveling to Maycomb, Scout crosses the Chattahoochee, which I had never heard of before.

I looked up the poem that she refers to.

The Song of the Chattahoochee- Sidney Lanier

Out of the hills of Habersham,
Down the valleys of Hall,
I hurry amain to reach the plain,
Run the rapid and leap the fall,
Split at the rock and together again,
Accept my bed, or narrow or wide,
And flee from folly on every side
With a lover’s pain to attain the plain
Far from the hills of Habersham,
Far from the valleys of Hall.

All down the hills of Habersham,
All through the valleys of Hall,
The rushes cried ‘Abide, abide,'
The willful waterweeds held me thrall,
The laving laurel turned my tide,
The ferns and the fondling grass said ‘Stay,'
The dewberry dipped for to work delay,
And the little reeds sighed ‘Abide, abide,
Here in the hills of Habersham,
Here in the valleys of Hall.'

High o’er the hills of Habersham,
Veiling the valleys of Hall,
The hickory told me manifold
Fair tales of shade, the poplar tall
Wrought me her shadowy self to hold,
The chestnut, the oak, the walnut, the pine,
Overleaning, with flickering meaning and sign,
Said, ‘Pass not, so cold, these manifold
Deep shades of the hills of Habersham,
These glades in the valleys of Hall.'

And oft in the hills of Habersham,
And oft in the valleys of Hall,
The white quartz shone, and the smooth brook-stone
Did bar me of passage with friendly brawl,
And many a luminous jewel lone
-- Crystals clear or a-cloud with mist,
Ruby, garnet and amethyst --
Made lures with the lights of streaming stone
In the clefts of the hills of Habersham,
In the beds of the valleys of Hall.

But oh, not the hills of Habersham,
And oh, not the valleys of Hall
Avail: I am fain for to water the plain.
Downward the voices of Duty call --
Downward, to toil and be mixed with the main,
The dry fields burn, and the mills are to turn,
And a myriad flowers mortally yearn,
And the lordly main from beyond the plain
Calls o’er the hills of Habersham,
Calls through the valleys of Hall.


message 7: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Buck you are referring to Atlanta?


message 8: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) I grew up near the Chattahoochee. My sister lives now in the hills of Habersham.

As school children we had lessons about the poet Sidney Lanier, and later we kept a boat on Lake Lanier, named for him. Lanier's most well known poem, I think, is The Marshes of Glynn.

Yes, I'm from Atlanta.


message 9: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments So Lanier was local? Eccentric by any chance- thinking of what happened to cousin Joshua & the comparison.

I'll need to look at images, sounds beautiful.


message 10: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) Lisa wrote: "So Lanier was local? Eccentric by any chance- thinking of what happened to cousin Joshua & the comparison.

I'll need to look at images, sounds beautiful."


I had to Google Sidney Lanier. He was born in Macon Georgia 1842, died N. Carolina 1881, was in Confederate army. Don't know about comparison to cousin Joshua; had to Google him too.

There is a lot of history that is background to Harper Lee's novels that maybe you, being from SA, aren't familiar with, but for Americans, especially southern Americans, it is part of the culture - The American Civil War 1861-65 and its aftermath, or as we were taught its correct name to be - The War Between The States.


message 11: by Buck (last edited Aug 04, 2015 04:18PM) (new)

Buck (spectru) There is a minor, but pivotal, character fairly late in Go Set a Watchman (once we get to the meat of the story) named Grady O'Hanlon. I remember men like him. My spouse attended high school with the sons of such a man. He had a restaurant not far from my high school. When black people tried to enter there, he threatened to bludgeon them with a pick handle. He became quite a celebrity. We thought him a clown. He ran for governor of our state; we were astonished when he was elected. (He was succeeded by a peanut farmer who later became US president.) In Watchman, I picture O'Hanlon with this pick-handle-wielding man's face and voice.


message 12: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) Lisa wrote: "So Lanier was local? Eccentric by any chance- thinking of what happened to cousin Joshua & the comparison.

I'll need to look at images, sounds beautiful."


Here is a link to one of my photographs, my daughter and grandson on the bank of the Chattahoochee: http://www.buckward.net/buckwardmainl...


message 13: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Lovely picture Buck

Part 1 (do not proceed unless you are done with part 1)

(view spoiler)

Really enjoying this so far, hope to read a lot this weekend.


message 14: by Rob (last edited Aug 06, 2015 09:59PM) (new)

Rob | 3 comments Maybe I am misremembering, but we're Henry or Alexandra in TKAMB at all?


message 15: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Henry wasn't.
I think Alexandra was mentioned- she feels familiar


message 16: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) I vaguely remember Alexandra in Mockingbird, I think. Or at least there were Atticus' relatives. Henry was Jem's friend, lived across the street. I don't remember him from Mockingbird.


message 17: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) I had a library hold on Go Set a Watchman, both the ebook and the audiobook. There were quite a few people ahead of me, so I had expected a wait of several weeks. I was looking forward to the audiobook read by Reese Witherspoon, and then suddenly the ebook became available, so I took it. I was surprised to get it so soon after its release date.


message 18: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) Lisa wrote: "Really enjoying this so far, hope to read a lot this weekend."

I've run across mentions of a book store that is offering its customers refunds for the book. It's average rating on goodreads is 3.53. I wonder if it's rated so low because people are disappointed in it compared to To Kill a Mockingbird, or if it is rated so high because it is buoyed up by To Kill a Mockingbird.


message 19: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Buck wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Really enjoying this so far, hope to read a lot this weekend."

I've run across mentions of a book store that is offering its customers refunds for the book. It's average rating on g..."


I was chatting to the proprietor of a quaint little book store called Hemingways. (Their classics collection is awesome!) He was raving about Go Set a Watchman. I think 3,5 is pretty good- it also hasn't been around very long.


message 20: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments I'm just short of half way finished. It isn't as good as To Kill A Mockingbird, but those are big shoes to fill. It is by no means a bad book. It does move more slowly, in my opinion and doesn't have the mysterious Boo Radley acting as the carrot on the end of a stick to move you through it. I was interested to find out where the title came from to see if it had as much import as the title To Kill a Mockingbird had. I guess I'll have to get to the end to find that out.


message 21: by Lisa (last edited Aug 16, 2015 04:55AM) (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Part 2

Jean Louise looks back on her childhood as Scout, a juvenile desperado, hellraiser extraordinary.
(view spoiler)


message 22: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Part 3

Lee creates an incredible sense of foreboding here, like when a roller coaster laboriously ascends an incline and pauses just before plummeting to earth. I found myself holding my breath through out these chapters.

(view spoiler)


message 23: by Buck (last edited Aug 16, 2015 06:44AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) David wrote: "I'm just short of half way finished. It isn't as good as To Kill A Mockingbird, but those are big shoes to fill. It is by no means a bad book. It does move more slowly, in my opinion and doesn't ha..."

The source of the title is mentioned a couple of times in the book. I thought the first had occurred fairly early on. Lisa mentions it in her hidden spoiler in message 22.

I finished the book a couple of weeks ago. Its detail fades, but It left a firm impression.


message 24: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments Buck wrote: "David wrote: "I'm just short of half way finished. It isn't as good as To Kill A Mockingbird, but those are big shoes to fill. It is by no means a bad book. It does move more slowly, in my opinion ..."

Yes, I've already come to a part where the source of the title is quoted from the Bible verse, but there were characters that represented mockingbirds, like Boo Radley in To Kill A Mockingbird, so the title resonated throughout. And Scout names Radley as a mockingbird at the end. I was wondering if the title held that sort of importance and for that I do need to wait for the end to see if it does.


message 25: by Buck (last edited Aug 16, 2015 06:56AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) David wrote: "Yes, I've already come to a part where the source of the title is quoted from the Bible verse, but there were characters that represented mockingbirds, like Boo Radley in To Kill A Mockingbird, so the title resonated throughout. And Scout names Radley as a mockingbird at the end. I was wondering if the title held that sort of importance and for that I do need to wait for the end to see if it does. "

The metaphor of the watchman is personified in Atticus Finch. It hadn't really registered with me until you alluded to the mockingbirds. Watch for references.


message 26: by Buck (last edited Aug 16, 2015 07:07AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) Oh, and, by the way. With regard to the quote from To Kill a Mockingbird, to me its just as great a sin to kill a blue jay.

(Lisa - I guess there aren't blue jays and mockingbirds in South Africa. Are you familiar with these birds? We see them or hear them every day.) In The Hunger Games and Mockingjay they have been genetically combined.


message 27: by Kaycie (new)

Kaycie | 2 comments Hi all! I just joined the group - Lisa invited me because I was reading Go Set a Watchman. Nice to join in! :-)

I am reading GSaW after just finishing a re-read of TKaM. What stands out to me most is that GSaW is definitely a early draft of TKaM, and I love seeing what an author went through progressing a story from Watchman to Mockingbird. The raw ideas are there in GSaW, but nearly as refined as TKaM.

As examples, some paragraphs are word for word the same as TKaM. The paragraph about the Conninghams versus Cunninghams is one of them. Also, with Atticus's trial in TKaM (view spoiler) GSaW also seems like it was Lee's more raw emotions and personal memories put into a story, which is frequently what a first draft ends up being! Love seeing what it was able to be refined into.

As to some previous questions, Alexandra was in TKaM. She moved in with the Finchs shortly before Atticus's trial to help with the kids. Uncle Jack also made a very brief appearance in TKaM. He punished Scout "unfairly" for a fight she was in with a cousin.

Also, I am listening to the Reese Witherspoon audiobook. It is quite good, and Scout might forever sound like her in my head. :-)


message 28: by Buck (last edited Aug 16, 2015 08:37AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) Hi Kaycie - I noticed the disparity you mentioned in your spoiler. I don't remember Cunningham spelling from Mockingbird. I remembered something about an aunt coming to take care of the kids, but I couldn't remember her name or any of the details.

Since one can't help but compare these two books, it does seem that it would be beneficial to read them together. I read that Harper Lee referred to Watchman, not as a first draft, but as the parent of Mockingbird.


message 29: by Kaycie (new)

Kaycie | 2 comments Right, I read that she took the book to a publisher or agent, and they said that they liked it, but they'd prefer to read the story about the court case so she went back to the drawing board and came up with Mockingbird. So yes, its not REALLY a first draft, but it kind of is a first draft. You can see all of the emotions she was trying to get down on paper for her novel, and even though the story is different and such, she has the same (albeit refined!) emotions conveyed in Mockingbird.

I do recommend reading them together! For me, it was a great excuse to read TKaM again, and I really did enjoy pinpointing little details that show you how an author went from a draft to a published worldwide bestseller!


message 30: by Buck (last edited Aug 20, 2015 07:47AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) Kaycie wrote: "Also, I am listening to the Reese Witherspoon audiobook. It is quite good, and Scout might forever sound like her in my head. :-)"

I like audiobooks and had expected to, wanted to, hear Reese Witherspoon read this one. The ebook came available sooner, so I took it. A good reader can make a good book really good - e.g. Lolita by Jeremy Irons, Harry Potter by Jim Dale. Somehow, I expect that Witherspoon would be a good reader of Watchman.


message 31: by Buck (last edited Aug 19, 2015 09:23AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) I just happened across this. It's the sort of image Go Set a Watchman brought to mind. Ruby Bridges, first african-american to attend a white elementary school in the South, escorted by federal marshalls (New Orleans, Louisiana, Nov. 14th, 1960)Ruby


message 32: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments Kaycie wrote: "Right, I read that she took the book to a publisher or agent, and they said that they liked it, but they'd prefer to read the story about the court case so she went back to the drawing board and ca..."

I recommend reading them together too. I used rereading To Kill a Mockingbird as an excuse to buy the hardcover of Go Set A Watchman and I'm glad I did. I'll probably finish today or tomorrow. This book is good at showing the prejudice of the south, but in a different way than TKAM did. Reading them together has made reading the new one a richer experience.


message 33: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments Buck wrote: "I just happened across this. It's the sort of image Go Set a Watchman brought to mind. Ruby Bridges, first african-american to attend a white elementary school in the South, escorted by federal ma..."

This is the type of picture I've had in my head too. I had a conversation with my Mom yesterday. She had a boyfriend from the Carolinas when she was 16. I think they met at camp or something. She was from New Jersey. There was a black boy who lived in her neighborhood. While they were together, the boy came walking down the street. She said hello to him and they had a whole conversation. When the black boy left. The boyfriend said he was shocked when she talked with the boy. She was shocked he was shocked. That was in the mid fifties.


message 34: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments I'm about 50 pages from the end now. I'm wishing I'd read it straight through now. I had to stop for a while. I really liked the senior dance chapter (15). Henry's solution was amusing. It read like a short story imbedded in the main story and I'm realizing there are other chapters that probably read that way, since Jean Louise is often going on mental excursions into her past this way. There's often a yearning in her for the Maycomb she remembers from her childhood, for the way she remembers the people around her. She doesn't particularly like how a lot of them turned out 20 years later, but I suspect these are differences mainly in a child's perspective vs. the adult's perspective having been away and come back. She even thinks about that at times. It makes for a much more dense read than we would have if this book stood on its own. There's a definite dialog going on between the two books, which I'm enjoying. I'm really glad I decided to reread To Kill a Mockingbird first because I would have totally missed that. If you didn't reread TKaM first, I think it would work just as well to read it second. It would read like a flashback and the conversation would go the opposite direction, but probably work just as well.


message 35: by Buck (last edited Aug 20, 2015 09:21AM) (new)

Buck (spectru) I returned my copy to the library a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember some of the characters' names. I can't find a list of characters online, except for one of a few of the main characters. Anyone have a link to a list of characters?


message 36: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Buck wrote: "I just happened across this. It's the sort of image Go Set a Watchman brought to mind. Ruby Bridges, first african-american to attend a white elementary school in the South, escorted by federal ma..."

I follow a Facebook group called A Mighty Girl- they highlight ordinary girls & women who do extraordinary things. Ruby Bridges was featured a while back. All the pupils left her class for an entire year and only one teacher was prepared to teach her.


message 37: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Buck wrote: "Oh, and, by the way. With regard to the quote from To Kill a Mockingbird, to me its just as great a sin to kill a blue jay.

(Lisa - I guess there aren't blue jays and mockingbirds in South Afric..."


Buck, we don't have either, but bluejays are pretty iconic. They show up in American film, TV & books. And isn't their a baseball team called the bluejays?

We do however have finches. Loads of species. I wonder if Lee purposely chose this name for her mockingbird- defending family.


message 38: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments David wrote: "Buck wrote: "I just happened across this. It's the sort of image Go Set a Watchman brought to mind. Ruby Bridges, first african-american to attend a white elementary school in the South, escorted ..."

David, I could give you a very recent example that's far too similar.


message 39: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments Lisa wrote: "David wrote: "Buck wrote: "I just happened across this. It's the sort of image Go Set a Watchman brought to mind. Ruby Bridges, first african-american to attend a white elementary school in the So..."

It does seem as though we've devolved in this area. Despite having a black president and many people saying we've moved beyond racism as a result, I think we're probably less evolved, as far as racism, in some ways, than we were in the 70's.


message 40: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) The rationale for the Citizens Council was states' rights. They objected to being told what to do by the United States Supreme Court. This is the same rationale that Confederate aficionados use to justify the Civil War. They say it wasn't about slavery, but states' rights. Even today, with the controversy about the Confederate flag, many people claim it is about their heritage, that it's not a symbol of racism. The tide of that argument turned only after the murder of nine people in a church by a Confederate flag toting white supremacist. The Maycomb Citizens Council objected to being told what to do by the Supreme Court because of what they were told to do.

My forebears fought under the Confederate flag, but I'm not so blind as not to see the truth. I've had this discussion with people in my family - nobody changed their minds. Nobody brings it up anymore because it is divisive. That was the rationale for their support of the Council whether they supported O'Hanlon's point of view or not - 'You have to go along to get along.'

Uncle Jack said Jean Louise was color blind - and she was. She was a minority of one - racism and bigotry were entrenched in her culture. I don't see how she could not have been fully conscious and aware of it. She would have grown up seeing how Atticus related to other people's attitudes. If she had ever shown the slightest inkling of her 'color blindnes' she would have been ostracized and called 'nigger-lover'.

Atticus' and Henry's attitudes towards the Citizens Council, while not laudable, are understandable given the times. What I had trouble accepting was Jean Louise's complete astonishment, that she had been oblivious to their attitudes.


message 41: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments Buck wrote: "The rationale for the Citizens Council was states' rights. They objected to being told what to do by the United States Supreme Court. This is the same rationale that Confederate aficionados use t..."

I think given the environment Jean Louise grew up in, with her father and Calpurnia, her father walking a line between prejudice and the law, Calpurnia commanding respect in his home and Scout being so young when she witnessed the trial, it was pretty easy for her to put her father on a pedestal into young adulthood. Being away in New York solidified her own views of racism, while at the same time took her away from Maycomb's views of racism at a time when she might have eased into an understanding of them had she stayed. Instead, leaving and coming back after her views solidified became like a culture shock. She was seeing Maycomb and its people with new eyes. Suddenly all her old friends were those people she'd been reading about in the papers. And then even more shockingly, her father and Henry were two of those people as well. For me this was believable. We all become disillusioned about our parents infallibility at different times, some old and some young.


message 42: by David (last edited Aug 21, 2015 05:55AM) (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments I just finished the book. I have to say, I was not expecting the twist at the end. It gets into another side of bigotry I wasn't expecting that speaks to what's happening even more today than it was back then because the Internet allows us to flock to those who hold our own opinions more easily than ever before, even when there are very few who hold those opinions. Interestingly, the Internet becomes a bit of a segregationist tool when we follow only the opinions we agree with. And search engines are now being built to pigeon-hole us there. Living in a small town like Maycomb forces those with differing opinions to live side by side, accept each other on some level and learn from each other. It allows people to spot when they're wrong about something, if they're open to seeing it. There are still plenty of people not open to it, but there's always plenty of opportunity for confrontation to shake that loose.

This is my favorite kind of book, the kind that makes me think and look at my own world from a different angle.


message 43: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) David wrote: "This is my favorite kind of book, the kind that makes me think and look at my own world from a different angle. "

I agree with you. I don't think Watchman was as well written a book as Mockingbird, but it certainly is thought provoking. And even though it was written more than half a century ago, it's still timely.


message 44: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) I walked into a room yesterday with a TV on. Ken Burns was being interviewed. I stood and watched this segment. It is the same subject that Harper Lee wrote about 60 years ago.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ken-burns...

I couldn't get a direct link to the video itself. When you get to the CBSnews page, click on the thumbnail- Ken Burns: 150 years after Civil War, America is not post racial. The video is 3 minutes. Please forgive the obnoxious commercial at the beginning.


message 45: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments I just got back from a library discussion of the book led by a High School English teacher. I really enjoyed the discussion. There were about 15 people and the discussion went all over the place in a good way. I'm hoping to go to another one this weekend, if I get moved up on the waiting list.


message 46: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisadannatt) | 743 comments Hi guys,
I've had a family crisis and am not at home at present. My internet access is severely limited. I'm afraid I can't complete this discussion at present and may only be back next week.


message 47: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) Wishing you well, Lisa. And looking forward to seeing you here again.


message 48: by David (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments Lisa wrote: "Hi guys,
I've had a family crisis and am not at home at present. My internet access is severely limited. I'm afraid I can't complete this discussion at present and may only be back next week."


I hope your family crisis resolves well and quickly. The great thing about message boards is we will all still be here when you get back.


message 49: by Buck (new)

Buck (spectru) We are almost at the end of the month. I wrote a review near the beginning of the month. Here is a link to it. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


message 50: by David (last edited Aug 28, 2015 07:19AM) (new)

David Merrill | 22 comments I have to say, there are a couple of your points in your review I disagreed with. I think, had it been published first, the ideas expressed in it, particularly at that time, would have been incendiary and caused a controversy. That certainly would have brought attention to it. It would have been different from the attention To Kill a Mockingbird got certainly. My take on its flaws is that this is a first novel. Had it been published as a first novel, an editor would have worked on it more with Lee to smooth out the kinks in it, so we have a very raw version of this first novel we don't usually get to see. But still, I find this to be very good for a first novel. In particular, the scenes that don't seem to contribute to the story much, read to me like inserted short stories. They certainly would have been cleaned up some and made more relevant to the book or possibly even removed.

I think I already mentioned, the different takes on the characters worked for me because we're getting Scout's 8 year old perspective in TKaM and her 26 year old perspective in GSaW after having lived in New ayork for a while. I found it completely believable for her to need to get out of the environment and live in a completely different one with opposite attitudes toward race for her to fully understand the extent of the racism in Macomb and that Atticus was a part of that, even if he wasn't the strongest proponent of the racist attitude. I liked that there was a distinction made between what Atticus would do in a court of law in upholding the law in defense of an innocent black man vs. what he might do in town hall meeting regarding the handling of town affairs. I always felt how he handled the court case was more about his respect for the law trumping any other attitude he might hold.


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