Comparing Jane Austen's characters and books with them of Italian literature or another one

[Henry]

Hello! My name is Simone and I am from Italy. I would like to discuss with you about the links between Jane Austen's masterpieces and world literature. I can deal with Italian one, but I need of your help in order to show the relationships with other literary traditions. I hope that you will join this section.

[Henry]

Do you know "I promessi sposi" by Alessandro Manzoni? There is an interesting link between this novel and Austen's ones as regards to the theme of marriage. Soon I will show you that.

[QNPoohBear]

I've only read American and English literature and a bit of French. I'm interested in learning more about Italian literature.

[Andrea AKA Catsos Person]

I read the Sicilian classic The Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa in May as a group read for a GR classics group.

The importance of religion and the church was very interesting as well as the changes of Sicilian society through the eyes of the land-owning Prince/nobleman during and after The rise of Garbaldi and unification of Italy.

I hope bringing up a book about Sicily in this discussion is not wrong but the book did prominently feature the unification of Italy and the decrease of the power of the church as a theme decrease of the Prince's prestige of his class (nobility).

The reading of this book was my first experience with any literature from that part of Europe.

[Henry]

As for “I promessi sposi” (that can be translated in english as “The promised bride and bridegroom) by Manzoni and Austen’s books (for example “Pride and Prejudice”, “Mansfield Park” and “Sense and Sensibility”), there is a first difference about the setting in which the likely marriage can happen. “I promessi sposi”, written between 1827 and 1842, is set in Milan during the Seventeenth Century, instead the Austen’s aforementioned books are set in English cities or countryside during the beginning of the Nineteenth Century. So Manzoni wanted to say something about the past, while Austen spoke about the reality in which she lived.
Besides, there is a second difference as regards to what prevents the marriage. In fact, in “I promessi sposi” the marriage between Renzo (that is the bridegroom) e Lucia (that is the bride) is obstructed by historical events: the plague, the Spanish viceroy who governs Milan, the popular rebellion in Milan, the arrogance of the little lords. In other words, we have the level of the history which interferes in the one of everyday life. Instead, in “Pride and Prejudice”, “Mansfield Park” and “Sense and Sensibility” there is only the level of everyday life, in which Elizabeth, Fanny and Dashwood sisters have to deal with moral codes, the disposition of the other characters, the class differences, social rules and their temperament.
I have just written the aforesaid lines in order to find out that in Austen’s way of writing there is not an interest for history. This is not a disapproval, because I think that it is not only important what a novel contains, but what it doesn’t contain too. In fact, while Austen was composing her masterpieces, on the one hand England joined industrial revolution and Napoleon wars, on the other Romanticism and the new tradition of European novel were spreading across England and Europe. I presume that these absences in Austen’s books were her answer to the changes which were happening.
I would like to know your opinions.
In the next days I will continue my speech about Austen and Manzoni.

To Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder: I studied “Il Gattopardo” (that is “the Leopard”) at university and I appreciated it much. Soon I will write about it and its links to Jane Austen.

Good night to everybody and be indulgent with my English.

[Henry]

Hello to everybody! I beg your pardon for two reasons: firstly, I am sorry to have not written before; secondly, “The promised Bride and Bridegroom” is not the correct English translation of “I promessi sposi”, but the exact one is “The Betrothed”.

Anyway, today I would like to continue the discussion about Manzoni and Jane Austen. A thing that they had in common is the character of clergyman. In my opinion, to analyze the function of the clergyman in their novels means to examine the role of the religion within them. I decided to focus on Federigo Borromeo from “The Betrothed” and Mr. Collins from “Pride and Prejudice”.
Federigo Borromeo is the Catholic cardinal who leads the diocese of Milan during the Seventeenth Century; instead Mr. Collins is the minister of a little church situated in the estate of Lady Catherine. Borromeo is part of a rich and noble family, but he chooses to be a poor priest; on the contrary, Mr. Collins is a man of a modest fortune, but he aims for inheriting Mr. Bennet’s estate. Borromeo is a wise man, whom people use to go to, and a humanist, who improves the library of Milan and the learning of languages, literature, philosophy and theology; differently Mr. Collins is not respected by others and the verbosity of both his letters and his conversations suggests that he uses his culture to confuse the people. Borromeo challenges the powerful Don Rodrigo, that is the aristocrat who doesn’t want to make Lucia and Renzo marry; otherwise Mr. Collins is affected and obliging only towards powerful people as Lady Catherine.
From this brief comparison you can deduce that Borromeo is not only a religious point of reference, but also a moral and cultural one, whereas Mr. Collins is as frivolous and unimportant as other people. As I have already said, the aforementioned characters represent the two authors’ vision of religion.
As for Manzoni, Borromeo symbolizes a type of religion that is a main part of the society. In fact Borromeo intervenes in the reality in order to defend the humble people and to make their lives better. By his actions and his thoughts it operates the Divine Providence, which is the ideology that underpins the structure of the novel: thanks to the Providence the humble people have a reward during or after the life. In other words, the betrothed can marry because the Providence provides that they have to marry.
As for Austen, Mr. Collins is only one of many people who take part in “Pride and Prejudice”. In this novel you can find out how Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy can understand their own true colors in spite of misunderstandings, prejudices, moral codes and class differences. Mr. Collins is included in this universe not as a moral landmark, but only as an ordinary member of it. So, the religion becomes a set of symbols, characters and functions that is added to other sets.
In conclusion, Manzoni’s view is clerical, because he thought that human kind was led by Divine Providence, whereas Austen’s one is secular, because she showed a web of cultural and human references which people can face up to thanks to their intelligence and efforts.

I would like to know what you think of my comment. I would apologize for my English. I hope to see you soon.

[Andrea AKA Catsos Person]

Henry wrote: "Hello to everybody! I beg your pardon for two reasons: firstly, I am sorry to have not written before; secondly, “The promised Bride and Bridegroom” is not the correct English translation of “I pro..."

It looks as if you have found some basis of comparison between Manzoni and Austen.

Unfortunately, I am not very familiar with Italian literature and novels etc., except for The Leopard, which I read in English translation earlier this year.

[QNPoohBear]

With Mr. Collins, Jane Austen was poking fun at society. It was very easy to buy one's way into the clergy at that time. It's obvious Mr. Collins isn't that bright but he managed to attend University long enough to become a clergyman. He receives the same education as everyone else and not specific theological training. It was looked on as a profession more than a calling. He relies on his wealthy patroness to give him a job. In Britain Bishops of the Anglican Church could bestow a living if he chose. Some wealthy nobles, like Lady Catherine, had their own livings to hand out. Collins relies on Lady Catherine's money but also her judgements since he is not smart enough to think for himself.

Jane Austen was also growing up during the Age of Enlightenment and the Age of Reason where people were turning away from a spiritual understanding of the world. The one thing that remained was that God put the King on top, followed by nobles, on down to women, children, animals and slaves.

A good article which examines the clergy in Jane Austen

It's very different from Italy. I still find it weird that Anglican clergy can marry and have families and that someone's uncle or father can be a Bishop. (I was raised in the Catholic church).

[Henry]

Dear QNPoohBear,

I would like to thank you for your observations and for the article that you suggested to me. I read it and I consider it as interesting.

With my post I tried to make evident this contrast: Manzoni and Austen grew up during the Age of Enlightenment, but Manzoni conserved a spiritual understanding of the world. To me Austen was more modern than Manzoni.

Soon I will continue my comparison between them.

Have a good day.

[QNPoohBear]

I agree, I think Austen was very modern for her day.