07/25/15 - Chapter 6: Catelyn 2

[Dani, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Khaleesi and queen]

I’ve never enjoyed Catelyn’s chapters. It is weird, because the plot advances so much on them... but I really don’t like her. Anyway, I’ll try to write something about this one.

First thing I noticed was this description of Winterfell:

”(...)Of all the rooms in Winterfell’s Great Keep, Catelyn’s bedchambers were the hottest. She seldom had to light a fire. The castle had been built over natural hot springs, and the scalding waters rushed through its walls and chambers like blood through a man’s body, driving the chill from the stone halls, filling the glass gardens with a moist warmth, keeping the earth from freezing. Open pools smoked day and night in a dozen small courtyards. That was a little thing, in summer; in winter, it was the difference between life and death...

Could there be something hidden in the crypts of Winterfell or under it to make some parts of it so hot and steaming? *SPECULATION* (view spoiler)[A dragon or its egg, maybe? (hide spoiler)]

Also, Catelyn believes fiercely that Ned must go to King’s Landing to serve as Hand of the King because she thinks Robert would be angry if Ned refuses him.

”(...)“My duties are here in the north. I have no wish to be Robert’s Hand.”
“He will not understand that. He is a king now, and kings are not like other men. If you refuse to serve him, he will wonder why, and sooner or later he will begin to suspect that you oppose him. Can’t you see the danger that would put us in?”
Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. “Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!”
“You knew the man,” she said. “The king is a stranger to you.” Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see. “Pride is everything to a king, my lord. Robert came all this way to see you, to bring you these great honors, you cannot throw them back in his face.”...”

But then again, she thinks that there is doom in King’s Landing too:

”(...)“My father went south once, to answer the summons of a king. He never came home again.”

“A different time,” Maester Luwin said. “A different king.”
“Yes,” Ned said dully. He seated himself in a chair by the hearth. “Catelyn, you shall stay here in Winterfell.”
His words were like an icy draft through her heart. “No,” she said, suddenly afraid. Was this to be her punishment? Never to see his face again, nor to feel his arms around her?...”

In this chapter, it is repeated over and over again that Catelyn hates Jon for what Ned supposedly did, by being with another woman when he was away. Ashara Dayne is mentioned for the first time in this book:

”(...)That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband’s soldiers. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur’s sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.
That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice. “He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady.” ...

For me it is odd that the first thing that it is noted when talking about Jon’s origins is Ser Arthur Dayne, a member of the King’s Guard *SPOILERS FOR A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE* (view spoiler)[who was present at the Tower of Joy, the day Lyanna died. (hide spoiler)]

It is nice to know about the Maester’s order by Luwin’s word. It’s something that interest me very very much.

The most shocking fact revealed in this chapter is that Catelyn’ sister Lysa believes her husband, the previous Hand of the King, has been murdered by the Lannisters. The message arrived in a wooden box, but we don’t know who has placed the box into Luwin’s desk.

”(...)“There was no rider, my lord. Only a carved wooden box, left on a table in my observatory while I napped. My servants saw no one, but it must have been brought by someone in the king’s party. We have had no other visitors from the south.” ...

So, who was at Winterfell to do it? *SPOILERS FOR A FEAST FOR CROWS, BOOK 3* (view spoiler)[Littlefinger sent someone for sure, he couldn’t have done it... I think (hide spoiler)]

[R]

I find absolutely interesting the perspective Eddard has for his dead brother Brandom. Somehow, I had never noticed this the first two times I read the book.

...That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."

This reminds me of a certain character who's introduced later in the second book who's always comparing himself with his brother.

*SPOILERS (maybe?) FOR A CLASH OF KINGS, BOOK 2* (view spoiler)[Something I value (maybe too much) is Stannis constant comparision with his brother, how Robert was the one getting all the credit while he was himself struggling to choose between his duty and his family (not even to be recognized for this) (hide spoiler)]

We get a chance to see into Eddard's thinking about his siblings, Also, the pleasure he takes in the little things, not that being the warden of the north is a small task, but he doesn't believe greediness and power would be his recipe to happiness.

It may be something common in brothers and sisters to always be comparing themselves but I wonder if there was something else in the lonely pup's head?... I hope there is some background story between both of them.

Extra from the chapter, it makes you think he had his brother(s) always in mind:

Eddard Stark had married her in Brandon's place, as custom decreed, but the shadow of his dead brother still lay between them, as did the other, the shadow of the woman he would not name, the woman who had borne him his bastard son.

[Antonella]

Sorry, I can't discuss this today, because I haven't computer. But tomorrow, I will do. I promise.

[Dani, Stormborn, the Unburnt, Khaleesi and queen]

Oh, that's interesting, Ruben. How characters view their siblings... and I agree that Eddard seems to rule Winterfell not for power, he views it as a great responsibility.

[Clara]

I, like you Dany, never really enojoyed reading from her perspective, but it is true the plot advances a lot. I don't hate her, but I don't really like her.

I never understood why she blames Jon and not Ned, because at the end of the day it was Ned's fault. I guess I never thought it was fair, but maybe I can see why she would do that. It must be hard for her, Jon is a constant reminder of Ned's cheating.

I find it interesting, how she thinks he has to go, but at the same he shouldn't.

I forgot Ser Arthur Dayne is mention when talking about Jon.

Also, I don't remember if in the series is ever reavealed who left the box. Maybe we can figure it out when we analyze the chapters.

[R]

I think she hates him because somehow, there's no way she can blame Ned, she loves him too much, he's a great figure of respect, he's honorable, strong, just, even admirable, not that her feelings towards Jon are justifiable for this but "it was the one thing she could never forgive him".

Also, Jon looked more like Ned than her own Children, that must've hurt.

[R]

You may hate Catelyn but I've found this chapter very interesting, even while reading the next ones.

“Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!”

(view spoiler)[Taking in consideration the R+L=J theory as a fact (which I totally do), I see in this Chapter a vulnerable Eddard, asking himself a lot of questions and doubting if Robert would ever represent a danger for his family. We know how passionate Robert was about things he loved, we know how much he hated Rhaegar for taking his girl. What happens then when he realizes that Rhaegar had a child with Lyanna? Would he dare to put a hand on Jon?

Eddard is trying to convince himself that Robert is still his friend, that despite his angry he would come to his senses in the end. I think this analogy is what makes him choose between staying or leaving Winterfell, the north and his loved ones.

Catelyn, finally, made him see, because, at the end of the day... pride is everything to a king:

“You knew the man,” she said. “The king is a stranger to you.” Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see. “Pride is everything to a king, my lord. Robert came all this way to see you, to bring you these great honors, you cannot throw them back in his face.”... (hide spoiler)]

[Antonella]

It's a little late, I know, but I want to share this with you guys:

1. "The king is a stranger to you! Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in the throat" Why Catelyn remembered that?

2. "My father went south once, to answer the summons of a king. He never came home again" *SPOILERS FROM A GAME OF THRONES, BOOK 1* (view spoiler)[This is a clear reference to Eddard's future. (hide spoiler)]

3. Jon's mother could be Ashara Dayne.

4. The first quote: "Never ask me about Jon. He is my blood, and that is all you need to know". And the second one: "Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away" *SPOILERS FROM SPECULATIONS* (view spoiler)[ This quotes makes me think about the R+L=J theory, and the fact that Eddard don't want to send Jon to the south, worse it. Maybe if he sends Jon to the south, someone might recognize him when he was a baby. (hide spoiler)]

5. "Summer will end soon enough, and childhood as well. When the time comes, I will tell him myself" This particular quote is pretty interesting, I don't know what it means but I think is significant.

[R]

number 5 is epic

[Vicki]

I'm sorry I couldn't comment yesterday, as most weekends are very busy for me. But here are my thoughts on this chapter:

1. I totally love the whole concept of the hot springs in Winterfell, how it keeps the whole place running in the harsh winter years. I know George Martin explained that the water flows through the walls, but how exactly? It must be amazing to be able to go out into the cold and sit in a nice hot pool (with a loved one). ;) And I just love this analogy:

"The scalding waters rushed through its walls and chambers like blood through a man's body..."

So, hypothetically, one could put a hole in the stone walls and hot water could come gushing out?

2. I love this part:

"The Starks were made for the cold, he would tell her, and she would laugh and tell him in that case they had certainly built their castle on the wrong place."

3. Interesting how the mention of Brandon Stark leaves a bitter taste for Ned, and I don't think it's because Catelyn's calling him out on their daughter's age. I'd never realized how "jealous" Ned was of his older brother. "I never asked for this cup to pass to me." I didn't realize talk of Brandon was all the way up there with the topic of Jon's mother, for the couple. "The shadow of his dead brother still lay between them, as did the other..." Well, I guess if Catelyn truly loved Brandon, I could see why there might still be some animosity there.

4. Everything about Maester Luwin is grey: his eyes, hair, beard, robes... Forgot about this.

5. Also forgot about the lens that was also sent with the letter, hidden inside it. I guess that was there so it'd be sure to go up to Luwin's quarters. "It helps us to see". Hmm... See what, exactly?

6. It's interesting how Catelyn really wants Ned to go and he does not. She reads signs while he goes by instincts.

7. "First the victory must be won, for her children's sake." What??? Not "their"? She seems to be getting a bit possessive of her children, almost as if she would rather they be Tully's than Stark's.

8. Oh I see, the real reason Ned doesn't want to go is because his dad went south on a summons for the king and never came back. Basic instincts is telling him he doesn't belong down south, not even for his closest friend whom he considers closer than brothers.

9. "Not Bran. Never Bran." Sounds like Bran is Catelyn's favorite. You'd think Robb would be. Interesting for a mother to favor a middle [male] child. (Usually the middle child is the least noticed, in most families).

10. Once again, why did Ned's father send him to foster at the Eyrie?

11. "He did more than that." I love this sentence about Jon! I love how Ned took it upon himself to personally raise Jon up in his castle with the rest of his family, and damned the rest if they don't agree. And I didn't know baby Jon was already at Winterfell before Catelyn and baby Robb... VERY interesting. Also interesting (I know, I overuse this word a lot) is the fact that this means Ned saw and held Jon in his arms first before Robb, his first trueborn son. It's very odd that Ned would bring Jon home with him unless his mother is dead (unless she didn't want him, which would be cruel).

12. I want to know more about Ser Arthur Dayne! And Ashara Dayne as well, who had "haunting violet eyes." It's rumored Ned loved her, and she could be Jon's mother. However, a lot of women could be Jon's mother, so there's lots of room for speculation going round.

13. When Catelyn asked about it, that's the only time Ned ever frightened her. VERY private about it. Either he is morbidly ashamed to even talk about it, or he is bound by a promise not to speak of it, ever. *MY SPECULATION*(view spoiler)[I'm thinking latter. Because he never tells Jon, either. If he's too ashamed to talk about it with his wife then maybe he wouldn't be quite so that way with Jon, especially when he is old enough to be able to keep it a secret from his step-mother. If she (Jon's mother) wasn't someone that terribly important to keep hidden, then I can't imagine why Ned would hide the truth from Jon. It's got to be the latter. (hide spoiler)]

14. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood and that is all you need to know." and... "Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely..." Okay, I can't talk about this without giving away any spoilers...*SPOILER FOR A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE*(view spoiler)[VERY interesting he doesn't say "son" but "blood" instead, and it is said of Lyanna that Ned loved her fiercely. I think he does this at least one more time in a later chapter, too. (hide spoiler)]

15. Loved this part:

"...as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she gave him. Somehow that made it worse."

I want to hate Catelyn for not loving Jon, an innocent baby, it's not his fault! But I do understand and empathize for her. It's the secrecy, I think, is the real culprit! Because if she knew, she could learn to love him one day, because then the element of "not knowing" would be gone. And never knowing is so often the worst part, because then it messes with your mind, racing thoughts of what happened or could have happened or never happened, etc. Also, it's said this is the one ting she could never forgive Ned for. If he had just been open with her I believe she could forgive him, allowing that hurt to heal in their marriage, and even take it upon herself to try to care for little Jon, like he was her own, adopt him, in other words. There is great fear in the unknown. That's why I can't hate Catelyn. I totally understand where she is coming from (because I don't think she takes pleasure in hating him).

16. "I had hoped..." What was Ned going to say??? Ned seems very anguished about Jon's dilemma. *MY SPECULATION*(view spoiler)[I think the real reason Ned doesn't want to take Jon south is because of his promise to Lyanna. Keep him up north where he will be safe. Ned's primary concern for Jon is his safety, not "making sure he will someday become king." He'd be safer at the Wall. After all, almost all of the Targaryens are dead. He's not safe anywhere if they knew who he really was, ESPECIALLY in King's Landing. So why risk it, having Jon so close to Robert? He might see a LOT of Lyanna and Rhaegar in him. That's why he keeps Jon far away from the king at the feast. I bet Robert is not likely to forget L+R's faces. (hide spoiler)]

17. "He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn's own grandchildren for Winterfell." So how does that work? If Jon ever were to marry, what last name would she get? What would his sons get? Stark? And why would they contest? Wouldn't trueborn grandsons be the first in line?

18. "And even a bastard may rise high in the Night's Watch," said Ned.

Interesting he says this. He wants Jon to "rise high."

19. Ned wants to "tell" Jon himself. Hmm... Interesting, too, how many chapters include Jon, or at least talk of Jon, in them. This seems to set Jon up for being a very important character, or maybe even THE most important character.

Wow... I seem to keep finding more and more details for every chapter I go. I've switched to a medium sized notebook for my notetaking now. :D