Monthly Group Reads: MARCH 2014 (Group Read 1): The Eagle and The Raven by Pauline Gedge

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Great review, Laurentiu.

[Laurentiu]

Thank you, Terri.

[Alicja]

I am finally almost 100 pages from the end... and I am bored out of my mind. It has some moments but at this point I can't even care, I just want this to be over.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

At 100 pages??? Girl, you should probably give up on that sucker if it doesn't improve for you pretty soon. :)

[Alicja]

I meant 100 pages to go to the end, won't give up after I've already read 587... nope. Too late now. It was one of those things that every time I was about to give up something interesting finally happened. So I read on and then it got boring again and about the time I was ready to give up again, suddenly something more interesting happened. Its been an annoying cycle but I've gone too far to quit now.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Oh. DOH! I didn't read that right. :D
Sorry about that.

[Darcy]

I didn't finish the book yet because others simply interested me more. I think I got to just under 50% of the book. I'll finish it, but I'm in no rush.

[Alicja]

Finished. And I am not sure what I think or feel regarding this books. Some stuff was cool but then others were boring and some stuff annoyed me (including the ending).

My gripe about the ending includes spoilers of the ending so do not read unless you want to be spoiled. (view spoiler)[Suicide? Really? Fuck that! Boudicca should have faced the victorious Romans on the battlefield and died with a sword in her hand slaying Romans until the end. I hated that ending of her, hated. (hide spoiler)] Thank you for letting me rant. :)

[Dawn]

2 star isn't so promising. Do you think it was just too long??

[Alicja]

Dawn wrote: "2 star isn't so promising. Do you think it was just too long??"

Be weary of minor spoilers below. I don't think I said anything that isn't known in history or vague enough but if I did please let me know and I'll hide it...

It was way too long and over-descriptive (except when concerning battles, those were short and glazed over). The book was split into two parts. The last 100 pages of part 1 were interesting and then the last 100 pages of part 2 were interesting. The rest was ok.

Maybe I came in with too many expectations knowing it would be about Caradoc and Boudicca. I was expecting resistance, fighting, struggles of a people against a domineering, invading empire which usually gets my literary blood pumping. But there were so many description of the land, so much mundane everyday stuff, the romances got too cliché, the speeches too long winded, and the politics given on a silver platter with each military movement and possibility talked out for a very long time... and then the actual battle would take a page or two. Plus I am not a fan of that floating POV style, where the POV can switch between one paragraph and another.

I know a lot of people liked it and it was filled with so much great information about both the cultures but the detailed descriptions could have been shortened and the battles and military movements more shown than told.

And maybe the style of writing bugged me a bit too. Nothing concrete, I just think it wasn't for me.

But like I said, it had so much good too. I did like Caradoc, a lot. He is a great character and amazing character development from just a young man to the arviragus. But I didn't like the way she handled Boudicca, made her seem a bit like a child, and even at the end when she led the army it was out of emotion. It almost seemed like pissed of woman goes on a violent rampage while in charge of an army, and I didn't care for that stereotype of women. I would have liked my Boudicca to have been much more complex, like Caradoc.

[Dawn]

Hmmm, I would have expected a more militant Boudicca myself.
Good to hear the opposite view. :)

[Alicja]

It also seemed like all the women who fell in love gave up themselves and their identities for their men. (view spoiler)[Gladys for the Roman governor, Eugrain for Caradoc, Boudicca for her husband, Bridget for Marcus. (hide spoiler)] I guess the only one that didn't was Aracia but she was depicted and shallow and vain (and evil).

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Alicja wrote: "Finished. And I am not sure what I think or feel regarding this books. Some stuff was cool but then others were boring and some stuff annoyed me (including the ending).

My gripe about the ending ..."


I reply to Alicja s ending spoiler.
(view spoiler)[ Do you recall our chat about suicide through history in the 47 Ronin group read?

I think we know more about suicide as grand gestures in certain histories and cultures. I have rifled through my memory and I don't think I have ever read anything about suicide amoung the Bristish tribes. I suppose not enough is known about them to say whether or not the "You won't take me alive!" scenario would be a more populat option over "I'll fight to the death!" option.
(hide spoiler)]

[Alicja]

Reply to Terri, in spoilers!

(view spoiler)[I do remember that conversation. Regardless of history, other (male) characters in the book have made a point of dying with a sword in hand or in battle or some other honorable way. There was even talk at the beginning regarding Caradoc's father and how suicide would not be an honorable way to die. I think that was a slap in the face at the end to have Boudicca die that way. The more I think about this book, the more I see that regardless of its emphasis in strong sword-women among the tribes, it seems to be an anti-feminist work. I couldn't even count how many times mannish was used to describe Boudicca. (hide spoiler)]

It will take me a few days to come up with a review and a bit of analysis but the more distance I get from reading it and the more analysis and thought I put into it, the less I like it.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Reply to Alicja, in spoilers also! :D

(view spoiler)[
Well that is just stupid. Why on earth would the author put emphasis on noble male warriors dying with a sword in the hand and have Boudica choosing the cowards option?? That would bug me too As would calling her mannish just because she was a proud female and leader of men.

Seems like the author writes women characters as stock and trade and therefore has gleaned a reputation as a feminist style writer even though she isn't. Doesn't sound like a work embedded with gender equality to me.
(hide spoiler)]

[Alicja]

Another reply :P

(view spoiler)[Yup. She seems to write women characters just a bit out of their prescribed roles, like sword fighting or telling their men they want to battle as well or not being completely obedient, but when push comes to shove it is the men they follow. Gladys stood alone at Camulodunum leading the peasants after Caradoc and all other chiefs fled and then she fell in love with her Roman captor who, put down her sword, and then was whisked away to Rome to live a comfortable life... agh. (hide spoiler)]

[Alicja]

I think I'm in the minority though of how I see the book. Most people seem to love it so I wouldn't want to deter anyone else from reading it but the stuff I have in spoilers are just some of my concerns.

[Dawn]

Well, I wasn't planning on reading it anyway. So you're safe with me! :)

[Laurentiu]

Well... the thing that made me love this book was the descriptive writing of the Celtic world and the characters innermost feelings with all the struggle in-between. Therefore, you can either end up liking it a lot or maybe hate it because of that.

[Darcy]

I think you've nailed part of it Laurentiu. This is the second Gedge book I've read and the writing style and I are not compatible. I find her writing stylised, dull and to be honest, a not just a bit detached.
Her characters don't live up to their potentials, and she seems to only write about familial conflict/betrayal and the rest is kind of meh, and the level of naivete all the characters seem to possess with the exception of one in touch with the gods as it were.
To me, this book is just like her Egypt ones, just a different setting and one long bugger rather than a trilogy, where when can bow out with their 'I've read the whole book' cred in tact hah :)

[Jane]

I'm with Laurentiu in why I enjoyed it so much. I was satisfied with the battle scenes. I loved the character development, their inner thoughts and the descriptions were lush. I thought this novel much better than her Egyptian books, on the whole.

[Dawn]

I didn't remember you read it Darcy. I though Alicja was the only dissenter of those that read this one.

[Jane]

If I remember correctly, Mixal bailed half-way through and gave it a 1*.

[Alicja]

Jane wrote: "If I remember correctly, Mixal bailed half-way through and gave it a 1*."

He got 15% read and then gave up.

I think she is one of those whose style you either like or you don't. Sharon Kay Penman is one of those for me, I gave up on Lionheart 77 pages in.

[Jane]

Highly possible.

[Darcy]

Dawn wrote: "I didn't remember you read it Darcy. I though Alicja was the only dissenter of those that read this one."

Well, I'm only about 45% done, and in no rush to finish it. ;)

[Lia]

I didn't make it past chapter one... Maybe I'll try again sometime in the future (Biiiiig Maybe).

[Dawn]

The lovers must have been louder this time because that's all I remembered. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Dawn wrote: "The lovers must have been louder this time because that's all I remembered. :)"

I was the other way around. I thought it was only liked a little or not liked at all. I didn't think too many loved it. :)

[Alicja]

Ever think of doing polls regarding star ratings for our group's reads? This whole conversation is making me wonder just how the various books rate among members who've read them. (I think its that contagious love of statistics.)

Although I know that could become a messy job, still interesting to wonder.

[Dawn]

I can usually figure it out on a book by book basis but I've been having some issues with all the members showing up under the activity section on our bookshelf.

[Dawn]

So I get:

8 - 5 star
5 - 4 star
1 - 3 star
2 - 2 star

For this one.

[Victor]

I'm about 100 pages from being done, but I love the book so far. Exactly what I was looking for.

I do understand why some would not like it though. For one the jacket cover (the one I have anyway) is absolutely terrible. The picture on front looks like it belongs to a romance novel, the back only talks about Boudicca, and leads you to believe it's only about her. 775 pages in and she is only a minor character.

I think if people knew from the start what it was about, there wouldn't be as much backlash concerning that.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Dawn wrote: "I can usually figure it out on a book by book basis but I've been having some issues with all the members showing up under the activity section on our bookshelf."

Yeah that is a problem. Flr some reason all activity doesn't show up withgroup read books

Then there are lots of people who read the group reads, but don't officially mark it as currently reading or read. So it skews matters.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Victor wrote: "Exactly what I was looking for..."

That's nice to hear, Victor. That is what I hope for when I pick the books for the group read polls.

[Jane]

I think if people knew from the start what it was about, there wouldn't be as much backlash concerning that.

I bet that was publisher's decision [marketing department] in order to sell more books. I'm guessing Boudicca's much more famous than Caradoc [Caratacus], barring his speech before Claudius...
The Eagle and the Raven

[Alicja]

Finally finished the review, its here if anyone wants to read it: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Lisa]

I'm still plugging away on The Eagle and the Raven. I have to say that even though it's taking me a while to get through the book that I'm really enjoying it.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Wow. :)