Monthly Group Reads: MARCH 2014 (Group Read 1): The Eagle and The Raven by Pauline Gedge

[Darcy]

Don't feel too bad; I've said twice now that I've started reading the book and I think I haven't gotten past the first 20 pages. Nothing to do with the book, but opening it seems to attract all manner of spontaneous events. I hope to get to it at the week end.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Before I bought it (which as some of you know, I did do, then the used book seller reneged on the deal when they realised the book was in bad condition) I read the first few pages online and I thought they were very atmospheric. I love atmospheric reads.

The potential for too much love story or touchy feely womanhood stuff were the two things that I was cautious of.

[Jane]

Terri wrote: "I am so disappointed that I didn't get this book to read with you all. It sounds fascinating."

Terri, I hope you will at some point. It's really great! I liked so much about it!

[Matt]

Terri wrote: "Not the sack of Rome, but Celts in Rome. :)
(and this series follows on from Manda Scott's Boudica series...which you don't have to read to be able to read the Rome books."


Thank you for the recommendation. I do plan on reading the Boudica series, so I will definitely give the Rome series a shot after.

[Matt]

Terri wrote: "Before I bought it (which as some of you know, I did do, then the used book seller reneged on the deal when they realised the book was in bad condition) I read the first few pages online and I thou..."

I didn't find that the book was overwhelmed with love stories or touchy feely womanhood stuff.

[Kate]

No - love has its place, and so does lust, but it always serves the story and is never sensationalized.

[Alicja]

The book just arrived in the library for me, picking it up tomorrow. So excited!

[Michal]

Ok, finally got to start on this one. I am only 8% through, but so far it's quite boring...some weird romances and I have to say that I do not really care for any of the characters so far, quite the opposite. You guys seem to like it so I'll keep it up :).

[Diana Marques]

I am half through with this book. I am enjyoying it but to a certain point. Sometimes I am bored because I feel like the rythm is too steady, I am not feeling the intensity I was expecting. I don't know if it's just me or if it's the book but I was hoping for something more epic than just a telling of successive events. I am liking it but I am not hooked to it.

[Shelley]

I just finished this, and in my estimation it's one of the best historical novels I've ever read. I was completely absorbed in the world of Albion that Gedge created. The characters were very complex--sometimes I liked them, sometimes I didn't, but my interest in their fates never flagged. Ifound Gedge's descriptions of the strategy and tactics of both the tribes and the Romans utterly engrossing. The ensuing battles were also well done. They gave a flavor of the horror of war without overdoing it. I rarely give 5 stars, but I might for this one. My thanks to whomever suggested this and to all who voted for it as the March read! I'm definitely going to take a look at more of Gedge's books.

[Darcy]

So far I'm liking this better than the other Gedge book I read, but I'm still on the fence as to whether I like it all that much. Granted I'm only 150 pages in, but I'm often finding myself wishing shed just get on with it.

Also she's borrowing a lot from the Irish heroic tales in some of her approaches to traditions which I'm not convinced is all that accurate, plus I'm having some issues with the misogyny applied to the Druids. There are some other little things I'm struggling with in terms of the relationship with Rome.

None of it is enough for me to stop reading though.

[Shelley]

Darcy wrote: "So far I'm liking this better than the other Gedge book I read, but I'm still on the fence as to whether I like it all that much. Granted I'm only 150 pages in, but I'm often finding myself wishing..."

A reader who will express the thought "I'm only 150 pages in" is a wonderful kind of reader...and a type that's getting rarer and rarer these days.

The last 150 pages are worth it, IMHO.

[Silver]

I think that Gedge did a really good job in capturing the complexities in brotherly relationships. Though most brothers (particularly in this day and age) are not put in positions of contemplating the possibility of actually killing one another (though they may sometimes think they would like to kill their brother) as someone who knows people with brothers there is a lot that does feel very familiar in Caradoc's and Tog's relationship and interactions. I think it is quite realistic and believable.

She really captures that conflict of love, admiration and rivalry mixed in with pride and ego.

[Alicja]

I just picked it up from the library and realized that I never looked at the word count until they dropped a brick into my lap. I am still looking forward to getting started on it.

[C.P.]

Silver wrote: "I think that Gedge did a really good job in capturing the complexities in brotherly relationships. Though most brothers (particularly in this day and age) are not put in positions of contemplating ..."

Did the Celts have multiple wives? In that case, brothers are often half-brothers, which just ramps up the tension that much more....

[Lia]

Alicja wrote: "I just picked it up from the library and realized that I never looked at the word count until they dropped a brick into my lap. I am still looking forward to getting started on it."

It stunned me too when my librarian handed it over to me this afternoon. :)

[Silver]

C.P. wrote: "Silver wrote: "I think that Gedge did a really good job in capturing the complexities in brotherly relationships. Though most brothers (particularly in this day and age) are not put in positions of..."

I don't know how common it was among the Celts but I do believe in some cases they did and within this book there is the mention of men being able to have more that one wife.

[Alicja]

Silver wrote: "C.P. wrote: "Silver wrote: "I think that Gedge did a really good job in capturing the complexities in brotherly relationships. Though most brothers (particularly in this day and age) are not put in..."

I remember reading a long time ago that among the Celts men could share wives but also wives could have multiple husbands too. In the old Celtic culture women could own property.

[Michal]

Ok, I have given up after 15% of this book (which is basically one third of an average-long novel). I was too bored by her description of the complicated relationships (it reminds me of some Russian or Chinese epics where there are no main characters except more abstract agents like "war" or "ambition") and for me it again lacked culture (from what you guys write it might be again the Pride of Carthage situation). I was also frustrated by some anachronisms, such as the depiction of freedom as one of the main virtues/values. It felt like some neoromantic novel (or a Mel Gipson historical movie)...

[Darcy]

mixal wrote: "Ok, I have given up after 15% of this book (which is basically one third of an average-long novel). I was too bored by her description of the complicated relationships (it reminds me of some Russia..."

I think there's a lot about the culture in the book, but it's not explicit and maybe requires some knowledge of Celtic society to see.
The notion of Freemen is not exactly the same as our notion of freedom. Freemen were kind of like later knights, they answer to a Lord. Their honour-price was based on a few things that were highly valued, including cattle.
In Celtic society a Ricon was chosen for his presumed skills in fecundity and a good battle record, once this waned (and was represented is represented by the 'maiden/maid/crone' in this novel) a Ricon (which is something in between what we would call a king and a lord) could be ousted by their Freemen if they were not up to scratch.
If the land became fallow or barren and the group hit by one catastrophe after another, it was up to the Freemen to dispose of the Ricon (if he was unable to read the signs himself) and to select a new one.
In this case, I applaud Gedge for her portrayal of the demise of a Ricon, as well as the Cattle raiding - which really was the winter work for the Celts. Also how the Druid and anyone in their travelling party were protected by their position and given immunity to traverse through enemy lands; but I wonder if the subtleties of it are missed by those unfamiliar with the Celtic world? Others would have to answer that.

[Michal]

Darcy wrote: "mixal wrote: "Ok, I have given up after 15% of this book (which is basically one third of an average-long novel). I was too bored by her description of the complicated relationships (it reminds me ..."

Hi Darcy, thank you for your explanation. I am by no means an expert, but I do not think I am completely unfamiliar with Celtic culture (it is definitely not the first book I have read about them) and therefore I do not consider what you described as subtleties.
I understand the concept of freemen, however, I do not think that Gedge was referring to that. Let me quote from a passage that is approximately 13% through the book: (view spoiler)[ this is Vunutius' inner chain of thoughts: "He wanted time to get to know her better and besides, he had vowed an oath to her father to serve her faithfully at the risk of his dishonor, and he valued his honor above all things. That, and his freedom. He had considered the loss of his honor when he had almost succumbed to the urge to murder her, but he had not considered the loss of his freedom." (hide spoiler)] And there are other passages that seem to be referring to the modern concept of freedom.

I don't know, this might be just a question of personal taste, but I find for example Cameron's description of Celtic culture in Poseidon's Spear much more colourful. It is true that Cameron looks at them from outside tho. Anyway, I think I am just a sucker for visual descriptions and details of both the mundane and the extraordinary, and for first person narration. I didn't get enough of that and therefore I had the detached feeling.

[Darcy]

Gretchen, could you add the spoiler code to your post? It reveals quite a bit.

[Gretchen]

Darcy wrote: "Gretchen, could you add the spoiler code to your post? It reveals quite a bit."

I did when I put up the initial post (or at least I went through all of the steps telling me I did). It won't let me go back and put it in now. I will gladly take any suggestions. I deleted the comment for now until I can figure out how to fix the issue.

[Dawn]

Gretchen, I usually find the easiest way is to copy the codes out of the (some html is ok) button above the comment box and then put your comments in.

But if you type in < spoiler > (with no spaces) where you want to start the spoiler and then < /spoiler > (again without the spaces) where you want to stop the spoiler it will work.

[Alison]

I finally finished this book the other day and I've been mulling it over since then.
I am somewhat in two minds about it. It was an incredible read, full of celtic culture, interesting and tender relationships but my hesitance over declaring it one of the best books I've read recently is.. (view spoiler)[it never seemed to change pace. There were no highs or lows, it was a constant march of misery. Though I knew that the Romans would eventually be victorious and that Boudicca would end her life there was no surprise, only quiet inevitability. This book seemed to wear me down the same way the Romans wore down the men of the west.
I also would have liked to know what had happened to Aricia who was one of the few characters I genuinely disliked (though that was probably the purpose). There was the build up of the druid's predictions, her stand off with Venutius and then nothing more was heard from her. I was rather hoping some Roman or another would put a sword through her.
I think my favourite character has to be Caradoc, despite the later chapters when he was living Rome dragging a little. Caradoc's transformation from young man to Ariviragus was just so human. Neither was his personality perfect, he made mistakes, grieved and almost verged on insanity at points which made his character all the more believable and interesting. (hide spoiler)]

That all said I really enjoyed this month's group read and will hopefully be joining in future ones. :)

[Darcy]

Gretchen wrote: "I did when I put up the initial post (or at least I went through all of the steps telling me I did). It won't let me go back and put it in now. I will gladly take any suggestions. I deleted the comment for now until I can figure out how to fix the issue. "

I think sometimes GR is temperamental. Thank you for giving it another go and not giving up, because it was/is an excellent point :D

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Dawn wrote: "But if you type in < spoiler > (with no spaces) where you want to start the spoiler and then < spoiler/ > (again without the spaces) where you want to stop the spoiler it will work.
..."


yeah..I wouldn't follow Dawn's advice or you could end up in all sorts of trouble. ;D

The forward slash must go in front of the word spoiler in the end combination.
< / spoiler >

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

On the off chance that members have trouble with the spoiler code. There is always this fall back.

*******SPOILER ALERT Chapter 3*********
(You just add the chapter or page number, or some indication of where abouts in the book it is.

That can work if the spoiler alert function has failed you. But if it is a huge spoiler and it is important people don't read it. Just ask someone how to do the hidden spoiler. :)

[Gretchen]

I think the problem is/was I made the post on my phone. After my pint-sized distractions go to bed tonight I am going to try on my computer. Smartphone my foot!

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

They aren't always so smart, them smart phones. :)

[Darcy]

Hahaha. Bleedin' technology is meant to make our lives easier. Clearly, technology didn't get the hand written memo. ;)

[Gretchen]

I have hit a road block with this book and it's name is Rome. (view spoiler)[ I am somewhere around page 500 and I cannot bring myself to pick the book back up. Caradoc and his family have been brought to Rome as prisoners after being defeated. Instead of killing them and being done with it, Claudius decides he's going to slowly drain Caradoc's soul from him. Caradoc and his family are given a residence in Rome and expected to integrate into Roman society. Once to story's focus shifts from Albion to Rome, it feels like the story comes to a halt. I almost feel like the author gave up on the story like Caradoc gave up in Rome. There was so much anguish and inner tormoil when Caradoc was fighting for his homeland and now that has all disappeared. I am finding that to be a huge disappointment after I felt like I had invested so much in Caradoc. Once in Rome, Gedge seems to shift the focus to Gladys' (the younger) story. Gladys is just not as interesting as her namesake. I am also finding myself disappointed with the lack of Boudicca. I am hoping she comes roaring back at some point. I am afraid I will end up disappointed in the Boudicca story considering the amount of book I have left. (hide spoiler)]
Fingers crossed my spoiler add in worked. Would you be surprised to learn I still don't understand the point of a hashtag either?

[Gretchen]

Gretchen wrote: "I have hit a road block with this book and it's name is Rome. [spoilers removed]
Fingers crossed my spoiler add in worked. Would you be surprised to learn I still don't understand the point of a h..."

It worked!

[Dawn]

Terri wrote: "yeah..I wouldn't follow Dawn's advice or you could end up in all sorts of trouble. ;D..."

Whoops, I can do it for myself but apparently can't explain it! It's fixed now!

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Gretchen wrote: "I have hit a road block with this book and it's name is Rome. [spoilers removed]
Fingers crossed my spoiler add in worked. Would you be surprised to learn I still don't understand the point of a h..."

I don't get the hashtag either. On Twitter people seem mad for them.

[Lia]

Page 59, still 635 pages to go. Unfortunately, I am bored already.

[Diana Marques]

I have finished the book and I have to say: I wanted to have liked it more. I found myself skipping some parts, bored in some moments and though I find it a good book on mirroring the Celtic point of view of the Roman invasion, I felt the narrative lacked something. And Boudicca could have appeared sooner. I waited and waited and waited for her... and when she finally appeared, I enjoyed it and that was it. Overall, I think it's a good book but it lacked emotion and the pace was always the same.

[Gretchen]

I have finally managed to finish this book. My review is here https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I feel I need to give this time period a little more effort. I found myself wondering while reading if a little more knowledge would help me. Of course there were points when I wondered if a little more knowledge would hinder me. I don't have access to any of the April group reads so I guess I will just have to go my own way for April.

[Victor]

I just bought it based off of what I saw here, but I probably won't start it in time to comment on it. Besides this comment.

[Darcy]

The threads never close, so you're welcome to comment on it anytime you want :)

[Jane]

Sure, Victor, I agree. Come back any time; I read it and loved it so will be checking back if anyone has opinions, after the expiration date of the read.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Darcy wrote: "The threads never close, so you're welcome to comment on it anytime you want :)"

What Darcy and Jane said. :)

I still go back and comment on group read threads that are over a year old.

[Victor]

I see, then I will. =D

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

..and I'll be watching to make sure you do. :]

[Alicja]

I finally got to reading it and am about 100 pages in and so far the story seems to develop slowly and the pace is very even. Is there such a thing as too even?

Like others have said, I like all the culture but maybe she overdid a bit on the descriptions... I'll have to see how it continues.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Hope it starts to get a bit more exciting for you, mate.

[Jane]

The epigrammist Martial was one of the characters in the novel; this got me interested in his writings. So now I'm dipping into his The Epigrams of Martial. I can see why he is still famous today. Of course, Gedge had him living earlier than he did in real life, but, that's artistic license.
(view spoiler)[ He was a friend of Pudens in the novel, and helped rescue Gladys the Younger after the attack on her. He often visited Caradoc's home thereafter. (hide spoiler)]

[Victor]

Well I started it, and I'm page 278. Really loving it.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

That's good. Fingers crossed you keep loving it.

[Laurentiu]

Here is my review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

It is the best book I have read this year. I felt mesmerized by the writing, very descriptive.