Feb 14 Archive State of Wonder

[Penny]

here's a good one for February!

[Val]

I started it today and I am loving it so far.

[Ruthie]

Loved this book! I admired how the author made me change my mind about characters and issues many times during the reading (without making me feel manipulated)....won't spoil anything, but the author did a great job presenting differing viewpoints. There are a lot of good talking points in this book and none are easily answered!

[☮Karen]

Starting this today.

[☮Karen]

Loving it as well. About 100 pages to go.

[Diane]

Just started it and fell right in.

[☮Karen]

Finished. This is now my favorite of all the Patchett books I've read. The conclusion surprised me and yet it didn't, know what I mean? There was a lot going on at the end -- one particular event I did not see coming but another I sort of expected.

[Diane]

This was the first Patchett book I've read and I really enjoyed it. There is so much that I want to discuss but don't want to spoil the end for others.

[Val]

I got annoyed with various characters and aspects of the story sometimes, but I loved the book.
Should we wait until everyone has finished before talking about specific events or questions?

[☮Karen]

Or go ahead but use spoiler alerts. I'm interested to see the discussion.

[Penny]

yes isnt this a great book? It's my favourite Patchett so far too - we are well into the month now so lets start our discussion - what did we all like/dislike/what surprised etc???
I found the setting to be so well done - I was definitely there in the jungle!!

[Val]

She evoked the oppressive nature of the rainforest without worrying too much about specifics. It was a completely different world.

[Ruthie]

I loved how Patchett made me change my opinion of characters. Her skills showed when she could make me really despise someone, and then totally turn it around so that I "got" their point of view, empathized with them and saw things differently. True sign of a great writer!

[Val]

I did get annoyed with Marina's tendency to lose her clothes all the time, but then thought that it worked as a metaphor for stripping away civilisation and decided to just go with it.

[☮Karen]

Good point, Val, I was really annoyed by that too. It made her seem so irresponsible. I wasn't in love with her character, seemed to just let Mr. Fox walk all over her, but her interactions with Easter were very special and tender.

Did anyone see that ending? I suspected there would be something about the cannibals, but not that. (I was sure they ate the dead guy!)

This is my favorite Patchett book too.

[Val]

I thought she let most people walk all over her to be honest, but she was not all that sensible when she made her own decisions.
Everyone loved Easter and he loved them too.
(view spoiler)[What did you think about him being returned to his tribe? I suppose it was the place he belonged, but not at all sure it was the best place for him. He was no longer one of them. (hide spoiler)]

[☮Karen]

Val wrote: "I thought she let most people walk all over her to be honest, but she was not all that sensible when she made her own decisions.
Everyone loved Easter and he loved them too.
[spoilers removed]"

In answer to the above spoiler, I was torn between him belonging with his family and with his adopted family. I took heart in what the Dr. said, that he'll probably just find his way back anyway. He seemed like the type not be tied down whatever happened.

[Val]

☮Karen wrote: "In answer to the above spoiler, I was torn between him belonging with his family and with his adopted family. I took heart in what the Dr. said, that he'll probably just find his way back anyway. He seemed like the type not be tied down whatever happened."
Your feelings are similar to mine. The bit at the end suggests that it will eventually be Easter's choice.

[Diane]

I just loved the book. I hated the ending treatment of Easter but an uncomfortable ending can be part of a good book, too. (view spoiler)[I thought it was horrible that Easter was left. Easter had progressed so far beyond the cannibals' culture that it was cruel. He may never recover from the betrayal. I was appalled at how quick Anders was to dump poor Easter to save himself. This from a guy who was plotting to bring Easter with him to the US. I know that it is easy for me to criticize him since I did not just live with the cannibals but still, there wasn't even a smidgen of hesitation on his part or thought given to find an alternative. (hide spoiler)]

[☮Karen]

Here are some other points to ponder. The first is my question; the second I saw on another discussion group.

(view spoiler)[ 1. Who did you think was the father of Dr. Swensen's baby? It wasn't relevant to me especially, just something I wondered about and there really were no clues that I caught.
2. This other group thought for sure that at the end Marina was pregnant from her one time with Anders, citing that she suddenly stopped craving the tree bark, which is what happened to the natives when pregnancy took place. I just thought she lost interest in the bark because she wanted to get the heck out of there asap. (hide spoiler)]

[Penny]

I am listening to this having read it a couple of years back. Strange how the experience is so different by listening - I was more sympathetic to Dr Swensen when reading than I have been by listening. She comes out so clinical on the audio that the emotion in the narrator's voice almost betrays the character. I dont have an answer to your questions Karen - not sure what I think of the ending with Easter - maybe it was simply to show how selfish we are when it really comes to it.
How did you change your opinion of the characters as it went on? What about Anders? Is it OK to be so ruthless and careless of others in the name of science that benefits the world? although I cannot really see how to continue bearing children actually benefits society!

[Val]

I think the author (through doctor Swensen) is saying that a company would rather fund something that is of no benefit to society but would make money (bearing children into old age) than something that is of benefit but would not make money (malaria vaccine). She chose a bad example as pharmaceutical companies do fund research into tropical diseases like malaria, dengue, schistosomiasis, polio, hepatitis, encephalitis, rabies, yellow fever, tuberculosis, etc. and produce vaccines and other preventative medicines, and treatments for them, but I can agree with the premise.

[☮Karen]

And really the case was made that another, better antimalarial is needed desperately, as the one Marina was using has such horrible side effects. I think those are real side effects, plus more that are even worse, but I can't remember the name of the drug she was on. The idea of 70 yr. old women having babies is so absurd, which illustrates too that Big Pharma has made some giant faux pas in the past.
I did not like Dr. Swensen at first either, as she was so abrasive. At the end I liked her more, but not by much.
I felt I didn't get to know Anders very well, but thought his reaction to the deal being offered him was probably how many men in his situation would act, wanting to get home to his family. True that he at one time wanted to take Easter home with him, but he only was given one choice and felt Easter would survive with his own people.

[Diane S ☔]

I can't believe a seventy yr.old woman would even want to have a child. I never really liked Dr. Swenson, though in the end I understood her character better and even felt sorry for her. André I liked better but agree with you Karen that I never felt I new him well.

[Penny]

some of Dr Swensen's comments are so caustic - 'Anders was an encumbrance alive, an encumbrance sick and I wont let him be an encumbrance now he's dead.' and then referring so detrimentally to her students as 'indiscriminate rabbits'.
Meanwhile does Marina really know who she is? Would I have idolised Swenson in my 20's but maybe not so much in my 40's?? or not at all? Also why is Marina even with Dr Fox (who is invariably referred to like this even by her!)who obviously is not committing to her at all yet she goes trotting back for more. I feel she always loved Anders - truly in her heart but he was unattainable - at least so she thought.
Patchett weaves such a web of disparate convictions and devotions.

[Val]

☮Karen wrote: "And really the case was made that another, better antimalarial is needed desperately, as the one Marina was using has such horrible side effects. I think those are real side effects, plus more that..."
The one Marina was taking (or not taking) was Lariam (Mefloquine) and it does give some people hallucinations, but there are alternatives.
There is a good website set up by NHS (Scotland), http://www.fitfortravel.nhs.uk/
It has travel advice including information about malaria and antimalarial drugs.

[Val]

I liked Dr Swenson as a character, including her caustic comments, but I don't think I would enjoy working for someone like her, however brilliant and dedicated they were.

[Val]

In answer to Karen's spoilers above:
1) I wondered about that too, there is no indication is there?
2) I think it is left as a possibility, but I agree with you that Marina and Anders just wanted to go home.

[☮Karen]

Val wrote: "I liked Dr Swenson as a character, including her caustic comments, but I don't think I would enjoy working for someone like her, however brilliant and dedicated they were."

Well said, as a character. I dont have to like everyone to like the book. She added some depth.

[Diane]

I thought that perhaps the research was to find a drug to help younger women who were having difficulty conceiving, not to prolong the age women could conceive. That would be a good thing. What troubled me was the Lakashi woman who had the Cesarean. She was young and had a long lifetime of conception ahead of her. Would she survive subsequent births without medical intervention? Did Dr. Swenson stop Marina from trying to turn the baby, which would have allowed normal future births, for her own needs? It troubles me to think she may have.

[☮Karen]

Did Dr. Swenson stop Marina from trying to turn the baby, which would have allowed normal future births, for her own needs? It troubles me to think she may have.

I believe those were Dr. Swenson's exact motives.

[Penny]

☮Karen wrote: "Did Dr. Swenson stop Marina from trying to turn the baby, which would have allowed normal future births, for her own needs? It troubles me to think she may have.

I believe those were Dr. Swenson's..."

Dr Swenson's motives are extremely impersonal - she is quite willing to sacrifice people for her cause. I think Patchett really knew what she was doing in creating such a complex and essentially selfish character - Swenson is the pivot of the whole story.

[Diane]

Michelle wrote: "I thought a reason why Patchett had Marina lose her luggage was so that she could fit in appearance wise in the Amazon. She favored her Indian father, not her Scandanavian mother and with native c..."

You bring up some interesting points and I so agree with the descritpions creating clear visions of "place".
How funny that the Lakashi were named after Kashi. Now we can all have fun thinking of other cereals and names that might have been.

[Juniper]

Michelle wrote: "Diane, this is definitely a book that has stayed with me. I have read a few of her earlier novels, but hopefully will read "bel canto" soon."

'state of wonder' has really stayed with me too - i found it such a wonderful novel, and it's definitely one i will reread. i love ann patchett, she's one of my favourite writers.

[Juniper]

that's awesome, michelle!! i finished her essay collection This is the Story of a Happy Marriage on new year's eve -- it was a great way to close out the reading year. :)

[Val]

I have only read this one and "Bel Canto" (which got 5 stars). I should try some of her earlier ones some time.

[Juniper]

last year, i read The Magician's Assistant and really liked it a lot. and if you have not read her nonfiction, her memoir about her friendship with Lucy Grealy was terrific: Truth and Beauty. (i read it with grealy's Autobiography of a Face, which was also excellent!)

this year, i hope to read Taft and Run - but i am worried about running out of her stuff. haha!! book problems. :)