Lord of the Rings Read-Along discussion
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Jan 25, 2014 11:27PM
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OK, so did the way Tom Bombadil keeps saying nonsensical syllables remind anyone else of Ned Flanders?
Diana wrote: "OK, so did the way Tom Bombadil keeps saying nonsensical syllables remind anyone else of Ned Flanders?"Hahahahahaha!!! Not until this moment
Meaghan wrote: "Diana wrote: "OK, so did the way Tom Bombadil keeps saying nonsensical syllables remind anyone else of Ned Flanders?"Hahahahahaha!!! Not until this moment"
Diana wrote: "OK, so did the way Tom Bombadil keeps saying nonsensical syllables remind anyone else of Ned Flanders?"
Me neither, but now that's all I'll ever think about!
LOL, I'm glad I had a role in raising consciousness :P
I'm interested in hearing some of your theories of who Tom Bombadil is. He is a mystery! One of my theories is that he is some kind of God, but in human form. Especially since he referred to himself as "Eldest." What are your thoughts?
Claire wrote: "I'm interested in hearing some of your theories of who Tom Bombadil is. He is a mystery! One of my theories is that he is some kind of God, but in human form. Especially since he referred to himsel..."Has any of you read Sandman? Basically the premise is that there is a bunch of people who are all older and more powerful than gods and other immortals called The Endless. They existed since before the creation of the universe, and will exist till everything ends. There is even an issue where they are attending a party hosted by a bunch of stars when our sun was really young and didn't have any planets yet.
Anyway, that's how I see Tom, sort of like not even a god because he doesn't really try to interfere that much but is happy to help if something comes his way.
But... I'm still on chapter 7. IDK if we get to see him later and he's different or we get more info on his personality and function
It's pretty much been ruled out that he is an Elf, a Maia or Illuvatar so I won't bring up those discussions. The two most convincing arguments I've heard have been that Tom is either a Vala or a "spirit of nature".If he is a Vala he would be one of the 14 hiding in Arda to keep an eye on things. While Tom Bombadil is not a name given to any of the Valar it's said that they have gone by many names so it can't be ruled out. He can also resist the Ring which points to him being more powerful than the Maiar (like Sauron, Gandalf and Saruman) who are susceptible to the Ring's powers. The only bit of hard evidence against Tom being a Vala is the fact that he says he was in Arda before the Dark Lord came from the Outside (meaning Melkor) and in the Silmarillion Melkor is the first Vala to enter Arda.. so there's that.
The other possibility is he is a "spirit of nature". There isn't much evidence for this in the text or even outside of the text but in Tolkien's universe spirits are completely accepted and it's shown that even plants have spirits, like Old Man Willow. This does leave a big question mark where the Ring is concerned though. How does a spirit resist the Ring's power? If he is a spirit he must be a very strong one.
Ok.. I hope this makes sense. These are only opinions so feel free to contradict me :)
Meaghan wrote: "The only bit of hard evidence against Tom being a Vala is the fact that he says he was in Arda before the Dark Lord came from the Outside (meaning Melkor) and in the Silmarillion Melkor is the first Vala to enter Arda.."This means he could have been "created" during the music of the Ainur?
Claire wrote: "I'm interested in hearing some of your theories of who Tom Bombadil is. He is a mystery! One of my theories is that he is some kind of God, but in human form. Especially since he referred to himsel..."My favorite ridiculous theory is that he's the Witch-king of Angmar. I read it ages ago on a Tolkien sarcasm site and it cracks me up so I entertain myself by insisting that it's true.
For those of you who don't want to follow the link, here's the basic outline, excluding a few things that could count as spoilers for later chapters.
He can command Barrow-wights (which were under the command of the Witch-king in the first place, remember) and he can see Frodo when he has the ring on, which is a power that only the Ringwraiths seem to have. When he handles the Ring, it doesn't affect him or turn him invisible, and Tolkien has said that the Nazgul are not affected by the Ring. Then there's the part where Tom gazes sadly off at the borders of what was once Cardolan, but refuses to talk about it, which makes sense since he, as the Witch-king, was the one who destroyed Cardolan in the first place.
Also, you never see the two of them together, so.
Obviously, it's a very silly theory founded on the belief that the Witch-king somehow feels bad about the fact that Sauron tricked him and turned him into a Nazgul, and he pretends to be Tom Bombadil so that he can feel happy and noble and helpful sometimes.
Still, even though the theory itself is ridiculous, I kind of find Tom Bombadil to be kind of a sinister character. Maybe it's just my dislike of the guy (yeeeah, I find him incredibly annoying and kind of pointless) but all the singing and the dancing and the coming into the hobbits' room while they're still asleep is a little bit weird, and the whole thing with Goldberry and the water lilies and how he met her creeps me straight out. Particularly the last line in his little song: Sweet was her singing then, and her heart was beating! What, implying that it's not now? Bleh.
I don't know, something about an omnipotent wood spirit married to the river's daughter (and traditionally, river spirits are not the friendliest of creatures) just doesn't sit right with me. I've seen it suggested that Bombadil is Illuvatar (although Tolkien seems to have rejected that theory) and can only intervene indirectly in the struggle to destroy the Ring (e.g. guiding Bilbo to it in the cave, and saving Frodo and his companions but refusing to take the Ring itself). Bombadil does seem to know everything about everything (although this is kind of handwaved by explaining that he goes and talks to Farmer Maggot a lot??? weird) so I guess the theory could hold water.
Honestly, though, I think Bombadil is just a character that Tolkien wrote children's poems about and when it came time to have a deus ex machina nature spirit to save the hobbits, he chucked Bombadil in there. In the context of the story, the most likely theories to my mind are that he's a Maiar who bailed to live in the woods, or he's a manifestation of Middle-earth itself.
Wow this comment turned out way longer than I'd intended...
I like the idea of him being a manifestation of Middle Earth itself. But the Witch-King theory made me laugh :)
Would I be stepping on toes if I say I don't like him?It's just a thing I have with wanting to punch overly cheerful people in the face. I like the Witch-King theory.
It WOULD be interesting to know who he is and why doesn't he have a bigger role since he's that powerful
Diana wrote: "It's just a thing I have with wanting to punch overly cheerful people in the face."OMG! This made me laugth so much XD sorry! It's just so hilarious!!
I'm not a fan of Tom, but I don't want to hurt. Though I understand your feeling and them being said so out of the blue made me laugth sooo hard! X'D
In general my thoughts are the same as Michele's one: the "Middle Earth itself" theory.
Hika86 wrote: "This means he could have been "created" during the music of the Ainur?"Exactly! That's actually where the whole "spirit of nature" theory comes in. Rather than being something named in The Silmarillion or other works he would be a spirit of some sort created in the music and put on Arda by Illuvatar to serve whatever purpose.
Also the Witch-King theory is hilarious and I love it!
Who is Tom wife? I am not sure what is her name in english. Where does she come?
I think that it makes the most sense that he is a nature spirit, but not just any nature spirit, he is THE nature spirit. I think he is a manifestation of all the qualities of nature in Middle Earth - nature is mysterious, ancient, powerful, and free-spirited. This explains why the ring has no power over him, and why he allows “evil” things to live in his territory - nature shifts and grows around obstructions - it doesn’t eliminate them. This could also be the reason that Goldberry (who is the spirit of the river) is so happy to cohabitate with him, and the way that they work together and find balance relates to how water flows through a forest peacefully. Also, there’s the fact that everyone important knows so little about him. It’s almost like maybe he doesn’t manifest all the time, maybe he shows himself as a true being only when he wants to.I also love that the Professor never explained. Whenever he doesn't delve into the deep history of a certain character, it's special and it means we get to try to have an imagination like his.
I have to admit that I found the relationship between Tom and Goldberry somewhat odd on this read through. I don't think I paid all that much attention to it on my first read through, but this time around I found it just a bit disconcerting.When he's singing about Goldberry, Tom mentions that her "heart was beating." This strikes me as a somewhat odd line. Was it beating quickly, because she was in a panic at the prospect of being caught? She probably wasn't on board with the whole abduction scheme. Was it beating because it has since ceased to beat? Did being captured by Tom fundamentally change her in some way? Do they have a relationship similar to what we see in selkie mythology, where the woman remains with her husband because he has some vital part of her? So many questions!
Bess wrote: ". Was it beating quickly, because she was in a panic at the prospect of being caught? She probably wasn't on board with the whole abduction scheme..."Hm. I don't remember anything that suggests she was kidnapped or abducted. She was down by the river and he came by and they met, right? I never got the sense that there was any sort of compulsion or force involved.
The line about "and her heart was beating" I simply took as emphasizing that she was warm and alive and loving, and that's why he fell in love with her.
Michele wrote: "Bess wrote: ". Was it beating quickly, because she was in a panic at the prospect of being caught? She probably wasn't on board with the whole abduction scheme..."Hm. I don't remember anything th..."
Here's some discussion of the mythological influences for the Bombadil character:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Investi...
I'm going to have to actually read The Adventures of Tom Bombadil now.
