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The Waves
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The Waves - February Group Read
The Waves, first published in 1931, is Virginia Woolf's most experimental novel. It consists of soliloquies spoken by the book's six characters: Bernard, Susan, Rhoda, Neville, Jinny, and Louis. Also important is Percival, the seventh character, though readers never hear him speak through his own voice. The soliloquies that span the characters' lives are broken up by nine brief third-person interludes detailing a coastal scene at varying stages in a day from sunrise to sunset.
The novel follows its six narrators from childhood through adulthood. Woolf's novel is concerned with the individual consciousness and the ways in which multiple consciousnesses can weave together. Woolf herself wrote in her diary that the six were not meant to be separate "characters" at all, but rather facets of consciousness illuminating a sense of continuity.
The 21st-century author and critic Becky Nordensten has described The Waves as a "beautiful novel with language and imagery unmatched in 20th-century English literature".
Petra wrote: "The Waves, first published in 1931, is Virginia Woolf's most experimental novel. It consists of soliloquies spoken by the book's six characters: Bernard, Susan, Rhoda, Neville, Jinny, and Louis. Al..."Sounds great, thanks!
I am planning on getting this on my kindle-how do we match up the sections? I don't know how this is formatted on the kindle, does anyone? Maybe I will buy it tommorow and check it out. Thanks for any info.Karen
Karen, each section starts with a description of the sun in the sky. In the paper version, this segment is printed in italics. Hopefully, this will help you.I'm so glad that you're reading this with me.
Petra wrote: "Karen, each section starts with a description of the sun in the sky. In the paper version, this segment is printed in italics. Hopefully, this will help you.I'm so glad that you're reading this wi..."
Thanks! This will be my first group read- and with women! I wish I had that right now for my reading of Absolom, Absolom! A formidable book, I didn't have trouble with As I Lay Dying or Sound and the Fury!
My first group read as well! Looking forward to it.
I'm looking forward to reading this book with all of you, too. I'm so glad you'll be joining me. I don't know if it matters but I'll be reading this version: The Waves. I do like the colours on the cover. :D
When I read the first section (a couple of years ago), I was floored at the wonderfulness of what was happening and how it was written. I'm not a fan of stream of consciousness but it's growing on me.
I'm glad it's growing on you, one of my favorite books is The Sound and the Fury. Once you read several stream of conciousness books, it gets easier- I never thought I would like them, but I find good ones really thought provoking and intimate.
I love, love, love The Sound & The Fury! It doesn't get better than that. If The Waves is half as good as The Sound & The Fury, it'll be great.
I just finished Cain last night. It's stream of consciousness but easy to follow. I thought it was good. Not fantastic but interesting, humorous and a good story.
So glad you also love TSATF!
Section 1This is the one section that I've read before and I had forgotten how much was in it. Because of all the details, I thought we might like to discuss Section 1 in a bit more detail to help us get some bearing for the rest of the book.
First, I love the descriptions of the sea & sky and how it ties into the life-stage that the children are in.
The sea & sky are described as one (before the sun rises). One cannot distinguish between the sea and the sky. They are one, for the time being. Slowly, the sun rises and slowly the individual features appear and we see not only the sea & sky but also the trees, the leaves, the birds, the worms. We see the detail and the individuality found in the world. The items separate and become individuals, with lives of their own.
The children, too, are one, in a sense. They aren't fully individuals yet. They are in the garden together, in the classroom together, they go for walks together. Yet, they have thoughts, ideas, fears and these are slowly being shown to us.
There's talk of them separating even more when they go to another school. They are on the first part of separating, becoming individuals and having a life of their own. But, in Section 1, they are still a group of one, more or less.
Second, the kids & their personalities.
What do you all think of the kids? What characteristics do they show? Can you see the potential adult in them, through their personalities?
We're getting only a glimpse of who they may become. They're still young but their basic personalities are there, I think:
Louis is very insecure because of his background and his accent, both of which set him apart. There was that passage where he mentions that his father is a banker in Australia (working class), while Neville & Bernard are "sons of gentlemen". There's a class distinction here, which may have been an issue in Woolf's time.
He's afraid of the others but sees Rhoda as an equal ("I do not fear her as I fear the others").
His first words were "I hear something stamping. A great beast's foot is chained. It stamps, and stamps, and stamps". A chained animal fights against his reality. Louis, too, seems to be fighting his reality (a working class background).
But a chained animal doesn't try to fit in and I get the feeling that Louis would really like to fit in ("I know my cases and my genders...But I do not wish to come to the top and say my lesson").
Bernard - he seems to be a comforter. He ran after Susan into the Beech woods because he noticed she was hurting. He seems very imaginative (lots of words & stories).
Neville - he seems rather proper, precise and punctual. Somewhat sickly, too. A kind of unimaginative, prim kind of kid.
Jinny - she seems rather light and free. At the same time, things are blind to her.
She sees blinds in front of the windows (things are hidden); she burns in the sun, freezes in the shade. She seems almost uncomfortable with her surroundings and maybe with herself(?).
She would like "a fiery dress, a yellow dress, a fulvous dress to wear in the evening", which makes me think of a Princess-girl who likes to play dress up.
Susan - in love with Louis. She seems very emotional. She balls her anger up into her handkerchief, trying to encapsulate it; she throws herself onto the ground in her anger.
Rhoda - She seems to be a loner but maybe not by choice. She sees herself as buffeted but not sinking (the scene of the petals in the bowl), yet she needs an anchor to keep her from sinking ("I will assure myself, touching the rail, of something hard. Now I cannot sink..."). If she needs an anchor, is she truly a Loner?
Lastly, I find that there's a lot of colour being mentioned throughout this section. Any thoughts on how the colours are a part of the story? Or are they just part of the "dawn" idea of this section, with the many colours of dawn being illuminated?
I found this passage interesting. It may give some indication of the personality traits of the girls:"My eyes are hard. Jinny's eyes break into a thousand lights. Rhoda's are like those pale flowers to which moths come in the evening." (page 9)
Susan = hard eyes = practical, salt of the earth?
Jinny = sparkling eyes = fun loving, party girl?
Rhoda = welcoming eyes = people/men are attracted to her?
This passage got me thinking about the general idea of this novel. Post 2 above says "Woolf herself wrote in her diary that the six were not meant to be separate "characters" at all, but rather facets of consciousness illuminating a sense of continuity."This passage may relate to that:
"But when we sit together, close, we melt into each other with phrases. We are edged with mist. We make an unsubstantial territory." (page 9)
Could this be interpreted as saying something like, alone we are words, in small groups/twosomes we are phrases and as a group/humanity we are complete sentences?
Meaning, in a way, that as a group we represent the entire but as individuals we can only represent something incomplete?
This is, so far, a beautifully poetic book. I love the descriptions of nature- especially in regard to the sun and light shadows. What strikes me is the narratives. These do not sound like childrens at all. And tbey are not that distinct from each other- it is as if it is an adults voice reflecting?
Karen, I think the kids are supposed to blend together right now. A group of kids will, in general, all be the same...in the sense that they develop alike and are all followers (to a point...they follow rules, follow instruction, etc). It's not until they get a bit older that they separate into individuals. At this point, they are as one.The adult voice is striking at first but then I just went with the flow. It must be hard to write in a child's voice/tone.
The quote in Post 2 states that Woolf was concerned with individual consciousness. Maybe (I'm guessing) she "adulted" the voices of the children to articulate what she wanted them to say. It may have been too hard to be so poetic and precise while using children's words and voices.
I agree that the book is beautifully poetic. I like that flow and ebb feel about it....just like waves. Woolf has gotten that element into every aspect of this first section.
Interesting point about the children being as one- I don't know what I think about it yet, but I like the mystery, and I just accept it, that's part of the fun of reading books like this!!
One more thought. As the children are moving on to another school, there is a sadness expressed- so Petra your point about the kids being as one makes sense, they know it's not going to stay that way. It made me think of having to grow up- fear is also there.
The imagery Woolf uses at the beginning is brilliant. The reader is standing at the edge of the ocean looking out to the waters and the sky as it takes on human characteristics. The whole scene is alive. I wonder if any one has ever thought if painting these imageries.
Agreed- it's beautiful, the imagery of the earth waking up and the children in the morning.Karen
The children are noticing the effects the world outside themselves have on them.
They are one as friends or family, Susan has been observing the other's features, habits, and vocabulary and compares them to herself. Susan feels she doesn't belong to this group. As one, they are moving forward, as she straggles behind.
I'm not quite done with the scheduled reading, but I'm almost there. I think Susan feels the most hmm... separate? individual? I dunno. I can keep track of her. The others blur together too much. But she's so angry! Why is she so mad all the time?
The version that I downloaded did not indicate section breaks, so I ended up reading the entire book. My edition had an introduction that outlined the character traits of each of the individuals. I found myself trying to see those being hinted at from the beginning. I agree that the descriptions are lush, but, by about page 30 it became just too much. A glass of good red wine is wonderful, an entire large bottle will give one a headache. That is how I felt about this rich writing. These six characters never became real for me. Although each took different life paths and articulated different goals and apprehensions, the voice was exactly the same, different content, same speaker.
Mod
At first, I thought they were the birds. That's because they were flocking and then Bernard tells Susan they fell through the trees onto the earth. That's why I thought that.Susan likes Louis and she is mad because she was Jinny kissing Louis.
This type of literature must be read and reread to understand the full concept.
I meant she saw Jinny kissing Louis,
So I notice, Woolf starts to write in first person with each character and I had to reread and look back to see who is speaking. She changes voice quickly, but they all do sound the same. So we are working up to the problem. They are equals now, but as they grow up they must take their place in society as per their parents' place in society, such as working middle class, poor, ext. What do you think?
Irene wrote: "The imagery Woolf uses at the beginning is brilliant. The reader is standing at the edge of the ocean looking out to the waters and the sky as it takes on human characteristics. The whole scene is ..."Completely agree. I read the second image of the sea & sky last night and it was as spectacular as the first.
Irene wrote: "They are one as friends or family, Susan has been observing the other's features, habits, and vocabulary and compares them to herself. Susan feels she doesn't belong to this group. As one, they are moving forward, as she straggles behind. ..."I'm going to keep this in mind as I read on.
I find Susan to be an emotional child but not one that doesn't feel as if she belongs. She feels deeply (anger and love) and that leads to outbursts.
I thought Rhoda was more of a loner/outsider than Susan was.
But the book is still young and we've got a lot to learn about these children.
Irene wrote: "So I notice, Woolf starts to write in first person with each character and I had to reread and look back to see who is speaking. She changes voice quickly, but they all do sound the same. So we are working up to the problem. They are equals now, but as they grow up they must take their place in society as per their parents' place in society, such as working middle class, poor, ext. What do you think? ..."I'm looking forward to the changes as they grow. They are such different personalities that this has to play a part as they become individual adults. It'll be interesting to see how Virginia Woolf distinguishes them as they grow.
From SparkNotes:The first section deals with early morning, or childhood, when the six main characters are attending a day-school together. As each of the children awakens, he or she begins an internal monologue composed of thoughts, feelings, and impressions. The children interact in various ways throughout the day, and each begins to take shape as an individual in response to the stimulus provided by the world and by the presence of one another.
Although their thoughts are somewhat incoherent and mostly fixated on immediate experience, their distinct personalities begin to emerge: Bernard’s loquacity and obsession with language; Neville’s desire for order and beauty; Louis’s insecurity and ambition; Jinny’s physicality; Susan’s intensity and attachment to nature; and Rhoda’s dreamlike abstraction from ordinary life.
Sheila wrote: "I have finished the first weeks reading, and unfortunately for me, I ended up feeling like I was sitting in peanuts cartoon, and the whole book was the adult lecturing me with that Peanuts cartoon ..."Same here, I'll see how it goes now that the children have left school
Karen
Tonight was a better reading for me, as these personalities become distinct from each other I feel a bit more grounded reading this. The prose is superb. We will see.
Petra wrote: "From SparkNotes:The first section deals with early morning, or childhood, when the six main characters are attending a day-school together. As each of the children awakens, he or she begins an in..."
This sums up the first part.
Woolf uses numerous, tremendous and sonorous words, as Old Crane puts it on page 17. I like learning new words. So as I collide into then, I have to make note of each, find the definition see how it is used in the sentence and write my own sentence with the word in it to learn it.
His magnificence is that of some mediaeval commander. A wake of light seems to lie on the grass behind him. Look at us trooping after him, his faithful servants, to be shot like sheep, for he will certainly attempt some forlorn enterprise and die in battle. My heart turns rough; it abrades my side like a file with two edges: one, that I adore his magnificence; the other I despise his slovenly accents—I who am so much his superior—and am jealous.'This quote is from Louis. He is referring to another boy, but the last line threw me off.
I am finding this book very tedious. I am at the part where they are all meeting in the restaurant- no one has a narrative vo ice, they are not speaking to each other, it's very choppy and surreal. The language at times is beautiful writing, but that's all. I feel extremely detached. There's no emotion, I'm glad I only paid $2.99 for this. Sorry.
Karen, I know what you mean. I just finished reading the end of the train ride when they are going home or as for the boys the university. It's like a stream of consciousness we are reading. It's pretty interesting. From reading about their graduation, Neville is gay.
Mod
Irene wrote: "Karen, I know what you mean. I just finished reading the end of the train ride when they are going home or as for the boys the university. It's like a stream of consciousness we are reading. It's ..."It's not the stream of conciousness that bothers me- I love Faulkner. I find this book uninteresting and depressing- I need some humor, this is sterile, there is no emotional depth. For me, thank you both of you for your support.
Karen, I did not like it either. If it is stream of consciousness, it is a corporate stream, not the streams of each individual. It felt a bit like an abstract impressionistic painting. There is this impression of individuating selves, and some how, not really since all sound alike. There is the impression of words, the way they create rhythm and musicality, and somehow, it started to run into noise by the end. When I finished it, my thought was gratitude that I was already a passionate reader. I think that, if this had been given to me to convince me of the beauty of language or the pleasure of reading, it would have turned me off.
I agree Irene with everything you said. I don't think I will continue reading this. I will decide tonight. I hope there are other Virginia Woolf books I may like though.
Unfortunately, this is my first Woolf.
Hey, I'm so happy I found this group! I'm a senior in high school and I'm writing an extended essay through the IB programme on this Virginia Woolf book. It's my first Virginia Woolf book and I'm a little overwhelmed by it. If anyone has any unique or interesting interpetations on the book I would be very grateful for other people's percpectives. Right now I'm drowning in "The Waves" (had to have a pun in there) and I could really use some help!
Don't give up. Challenge yourself to finish it. There are many unfamiliar words I have to stop and look up, but that makes it more interesting. Go to the library and get the audio, or read it out loud as if you are in a monologue play, that will help you. This is great literature. Let's figure out why it's great. I read that this novel has the effects of waves, in and out. "The Waves (1931) presents a group of six friends whose reflections, which are closer to recitatives than to interior monologues proper, create a wave-like atmosphere that is more akin to a prose poem than to a plot-centred novel.[23]."
OMG! My heart is breaking a little bit. :DI understand that stream of consciousness is awful for many. It was for me for many years. I think it was Ulysses that started to turn that around. That book took me so much work to get through. I was pretty proud of myself when I finished it. Then the book started to grow on me and now I want to do a reread.
I still didn't like Mrs. Dalloway, so not all stream of consciousness appeals to me.
The Waves, though, totally resonates. I'm really enjoying it. I haven't been reading because I'm trying to stick to the schedule to help discussion as we go along. But, since you're all moving ahead, I'm going to get back to reading it and lets discuss it.
Irene is right. Let's see what it is about this book that we can learn.
First, I think it's important to get to know the kids. Let's talk about them. They've just separated into 2 groups and gone to school (that's where I am in the book). I'm sure there is more separation as they get older.
Could we discuss the kids while they are young? Do you mind sticking to this for a few days while I read and catch up with you all?
Who's your favorite kid? Who's your least favorite? Why?
What is your impression of any or all of the kids?
What are they doing in a school by the seaside? Where are their parents? Why are they housed in a school? How old are they?
Feel free to add any impression or thought about the kids....either one or the entire group or a subgroup.
Also, I asked about colours above. There's so much mention of colour. Any thoughts on the use of colour in this novel?
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Here is the schedule we decided on. It's a loose schedule but please use it as a guide when posting spoilers beyond the week's reading. Thank you.
This read starts on February 1st.
Week 1 (Feb 1-7) - read Sections 1 & 2 (pages 3-51), start discussion mid or end of the week
Week 2 (Feb 8-14) - read Sections 3 & 4 (pages 52-106), start discussion mid or end of the week
Week 3 (Feb 15-21) - read Sections 5-7 (pages 107-151), start discussion mid or end of the week
Week 4 (Feb 22-28) - finish the book (pages 152-220), start discussions mid or end of the week.
If this schedule proves to be too slow or too fast, we can adjust it. We'll play it by ear.
Stream of consciousness can take some time to read (sometimes). We'll see how it goes.