Mockingjay
discussion
Why is everyone so mad about the ending of this book?
Alexis wrote: "Well I certainly loved the epilogue and that everlark ends up to be canon and they have adorable babies!But I liked the end of mockingjay, I think it showed how much Katniss changed after the rebe..."
Hmmm, been a few mos since I read it, but I'm blanking on the everlark canon thing. I'll have to reread the epilogue, tout de suite. Loved what you said about her difficulty showing love. And yeah, if ever a character was due a little peace after trial by fire, its Katniss Everdeen. BTW, anyone else just think that name is utterly perfect? Its so unique, yet sorta encompasses the poverty of the district. Reminds me of a name you'd hear in backwater West Virginia mining town, or something. Fab name, imo.
I agree with rebekah on some things- can live with Prim dying but would have preferred Finnick live, and the ending, as many people have said- did seem rushed. But I don’t agree with the rest. I don’t believe she had Peeta’s children because she felt she owed him. Yes, he had to “convince” her, after 15 years of trying, but I think that actually proves she didn’t do it cause she owed him. If that was the case she would have had them after 5 years at the most. But it took 15 years of Peeta’s convincing her that it would be alright…. “we have each other. And the book. We can make them understand in a way that will make them braver”. She did do it because Peeta wanted them, but she did it because she loved Peeta and wanted to give him what he wanted. After reading the second book I was also looking for a happy ending (as someone else posted) but throughout Mockingjay I realized that wouldn’t happen. The ending was as it should be, though shorter than it could have been. Yes, some read books to escape reality- but if that’s what you’re looking for don’t read a dystopian book. Reading the last book I kept thinking- people are going to die. It has to happen. Peeta could die, Gale could, even Katniss- this is war. I didn’t expect Prim to die but no matter- I didn’t hate her but didn’t have any special feelings for her either.
“For me personally (as well) I would have love to read more about how Katniss finally got her head out of her butt and did right by Peta. An epilogue that consisted of a few pages of exposition and no real conversation was a let down.”
I also didn’t like, as others have said, there wasn’t much action- most of the book was just as they got into some action, it all of a sudden cuts to Kat in the hospital after all is said and done and others telling her what happened. Katniss was “neurotic and disagreeable” but really, she was kind of like that in all the books- she just had a good team, and mainly Peeta, who made it look different for the cameras. But I do agree- she is much worse in MJ, very detached- but I guess that’s the point- the 2 games she was in led to her being that way.
But I definitely believe she should have ended up with Peeta- I thought it might end with her being alone but I’m glad it didn’t. They needed each other to go on with their lives after what they had been through. And Gale would not have been able to get her as far as Peeta did- having children, being happy even though she has to play a game to remember the good things.
I think my biggest problem with the ending was that yes, there could have been more about the progress her and Peeta both made in the 20 years between the end and the epilogue. But also, even more so for me cause I liked him so much, I would have liked to have gotten a little more info on Haymitch, other than he drank liquor and when that ran out he raised geese til the train came. And that he finally joined in with the book making, adding his 23 years of mentored tributes to it. I would have liked something happier for him- like a small picture of him playing with the kids, them calling him Uncle, something. But it is what it is- I guess we can just fill in the blanks with our own imaginations.
Melissa wrote: "I agree with rebekah on some things- can live with Prim dying but would have preferred Finnick live, and the ending, as many people have said- did seem rushed. But I don’t agree with the rest. I ...""Yes, some read books to escape reality- but if that’s what you’re looking for don’t read a dystopian book. Reading the last book I kept thinking- people are going to die. It has to happen. Peeta could die, Gale could, even Katniss- this is war."
Beautifully said. Dystopian fiction is by definition, kinda distressing. Ya'll wanna read something that'll really freak you out (but in the best way, of course)... try The Handmaid's Tale. That was probably my first foray into 'heartbreakingly possible if we don't get our act together as a society' dystopia. Freaky, I tell ya, especially as a woman. The Handmaid's Tale
Melissa wrote: "I agree with rebekah on some things- can live with Prim dying but would have preferred Finnick live, and the ending, as many people have said- did seem rushed. But I don’t agree with the rest. I ..."I agree 100%
I thought the whole point of Prim dying was that Katniss was in the Games in the first place because she was protecting Primm. At the end, it was all sort of for nothing, especially considering that it was Gale who unwittingly killed Prim.
S wrote: "I thought the whole point of Prim dying was that Katniss was in the Games in the first place because she was protecting Primm. At the end, it was all sort of for nothing, especially considering tha..."Thats a great point, actually, and I never considered it. Her whole reason for enduring the horrors of the games is dead, and the utter futility in the fact that, after everything, she wasn't able to protect the one she set out to save (even to sacrifice herself for)... Really a great insight, S!
claire wrote: "yeah I loved the ending! most people hat the death of _____ (spoilers sweetie;]) they say it was not necessary they are all like "if it wasn't for her the book would have no structure why must she ..."lol... just caught the 'spoilers, sweetie!' reference. I'm a huge whovian... can't believe I missed it the first time! Clever, you. ;)
claire wrote: "yeah I loved the ending! most people hat the death of _____ (spoilers sweetie;]) they say it was not necessary they are all like "if it wasn't for her the book would have no structure why must she ..."Nice Doctor Who referance! :)
Personally I think the ending was some kind of beautiful. Doesn't mean I like that important people died, but I guess I understood why.
I thought that the ending was too abrupt. The last third of the book just felt rushed and I didn't feel as though Peeta and Katniss's relationship was resolved very well.
Grace wrote: "I thought that the ending was too abrupt. The last third of the book just felt rushed and I didn't feel as though Peeta and Katniss's relationship was resolved very well."Agreed- the first half of the book almost seemed to drag with Katniss mostly just wandering around 13, then all of a sudden they're in the heart of the war, but it's so brief, then she's back in a room by herself while her trial goes on, unknown to her, and the readers. Right now I'm reading some fanfiction: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6554253/... that expands on what happened to Peeta and Katniss after he plants the primroses. It's not perfect, but it's a good read if you want more of a resolution for Peeta and Kat.
I thought that katniss seemed so unhappy at the end, an that bothered me, because she had succeeded in her mission, the war was over, she has a new family,... and yet she feels unhappy? I didn't get it.
Joke wrote: "I thought that katniss seemed so unhappy at the end, an that bothered me, because she had succeeded in her mission, the war was over, she has a new family,... and yet she feels unhappy? I didn't ge..."I didn't get unhappy, really... I got more at hard won peace, and still somewhat traumatized from all that she's suffered. There's no 'getting over' something like that, regardless of if it works out in the end, and even if your day to day life is pretty good, and you're at peace with yourself and your family. I can't really explain it any better than that, but it marks you, and it doesn't ever go away. Its almost like she's a survivor of a holocaust... well not almost.. she is. But there's all kinds of stuff that's been written by families of holocaust survivors. And one thing you hear again and again, sort of a common denominator among them, is that even 30 and 40 years later, when they've got kids, grandkids of their own, and have emigrated to the states... basically everything in their life is happy and prosperous... their kids say they almost never talk about their experiences in the holocaust, and certainly not in any detail. One guy I remember said his father was on his deathbed before he finally told the son that he'd lost not only his parents in the camps, but six (6!!!!) siblings, including his twin sister. The guy never even knew his dad had siblings, or how their loss affected him. The survivor told his son as he was dying all about each one of them, and how to that day, he'd have little conversations with them in his mind, celebrate their birthdays... basically each and every day he thought about those he'd lost. And he never told anyone... not his wife, not his son. He was a nice guy... he loved everyone, and they loved him... but just very quiet and reserved, even from his family. Anyway, forgive the long explanation, but that's how I 'read' Katniss' demeanor at the end.
It was demonstrating the effect that war, even a successful war, can have on a person. It doesn't matter that you won. Too much has been lost. People you love have died and you will never get them back. No one wins a war. You may defeat a dangerous foe, and that's good, but it doesn't mean that you can be happy about what's happened. Soldiers sometimes suffer the effects of things like this for decades afterwards.
Prim(The single reason katnip went to THG) died and no news of GALE. Couldn't have been worse.
Rebekah wrote: "Leigh wrote: "I think readers are irritated by the ending because it felt rushed and so many characters died, it felt like a bloodbath. Katniss is neurotic and disagreeable, and the whole ending ju..."I loved the ending. And Prim dying was necessary for Katniss to realize what Coin truly was and then making the decision to kill her. Finnick's death was not like that, but it also showed that it was war and that people die, doesn't matter who it is.
For me it didn't feel really forced or rushed. I didn't even expect an epilogue but was thrilled when we got one. I like how Suzanne didn't try to write it like "the war was over, we got kids and lived happily ever after" but instead showed us that even after over 15 years they are still suffering from the trauma and that it won't ever go away, but that they are learning to deal with it together and trying to be happy. It felt really realistic and wasn't really a happy ending, but it wasn't a sad one either.
One thing I didn't like though, was how the love triangle turned out. By making Gale one of the people responsible for Katniss's sister death and her never wanting to see him again made it look like she had to choose Peeta because he was the one left, not because she loved him. Which I believe she did. And it's not because of guilt, because she wanted it herself as well, because she needed him.
I don't know if you remember but when she first came home to district 12 after her trial she wanted to commit suicide, but something stopped her. She said herself that it was like she was waiting for something. And that something was Peeta. Peeta who helped her cope with the nightmares, filled her with hope and made her slowly appreciate life again. She needed him just as much as he needed her. And like she said in the last page "I know that this would have happened anyway" and then goes on about how Peeta would have still been her choice even if Gale was still in the picture.
Maybe it's not the kind of love we are used to. But I think it's fair to say that Katniss loved Peeta back, in some way.
People also tend to forget the passion they sometimes had when they kissed in Hunger Games and Catching Fire, a passion she never experienced with Gale. He even said it himself. She always kissed Gale either because she felt sorry for him or because she needed to get over Peeta. Him however, she sometimes kissed because she felt like it, because she simply wanted to.
But I do agree though about the kids. I think she finally did it because she wanted to do something for Peeta, and like you said felt she owned him that. But I also think that she really loved her kids and learned to live with her fear over having kids as well. She was just so hung up on the idea that she didn't ever want children because she was afraid that the capitol would take them away from her. But now she has to remind herself that it can't happen, but she is still terrified that it will since she's lost everything else.
Kristine wrote: "Because it's not the ending they wanted."Exactly. They wanted it to be what they wanted it to be. But it's a war story. And Collins explains why she's with Peeta. They complement each other; Gale does not complement Katniss since they are much too alike.
I personally loved this book and thought the story line was supper quick paced, which I loved. I however thought the ending was not worthy of the books. I felt that all three of the books were really good and action packed and the ending, especially the epilog, was just a let down. With Katniss and Peeta getting married and living happily ever after it just seemed out of place. Considering Peeta hated Katniss and wanted to kill her probably 10 chapters before the ending it was just kind of a weird ending in my personal opinion. And a happy ending was kind of lame for how great I thought these books were.
Also, I think Prim had to die, or Katniss would never have gotten married. And I think it's appropriate that Katniss married Peeta... I mean seriously, she got him back, didn't she? Just as Peeta would've done for her. The ending was bitter-sweet, just as it should've been.
The book was kinda pathetic. The ending was just awful.
It didn't explain anything about katniss and Peeta's relationship, or we got was a crappy epilogue which was shit.
I thought I was gonna die of boredom through most of the book, it felt like I was wading in mud, and couldn't move forward in the book.
It was so disappointing.
And everyone says it wasn't a happy ending.
To me, it felt like a happy ending.
Did not like at all.
The only reason I rated it 3 stars is because on the rare occasion parts of the book piqued my interest.
Michael wrote: "Of the three books, the first was best, the second close to the first and the third was so so. The ending with Coin was predictable and her character was more 2 dimensional rather than Snow's who ..."Katniss has gone through more emotional and mental trauma and heartbreak than any other character written in my opinion. Thinking that someone who has lost almost everything to the point where she is no longer 100% stable, needs to "get a grip" isn't fair. To other characters in other series who are unbelievably frustrating for no apparent reason, then yes I want to scream the exact same thing at them, but Katniss truly has her reasons.
David wrote: "She didn't go with Peeta out of love - she only stayed with him out of not being alone."Really? I don't believe that at all. You can't think she stayed with him for that reason alone. She is a complete wreck when he is taken by the Capitol, she vowed to give her life for him in the arena, do you really think that sounds like someone selfish enough to be with someone just so that you don't have to be alone? No. There love is 100% true.
My take on Katniss and Peeta is a little different. I think Katniss is resistant to what Peeta begins to make her feel, emotionally, because 1) she's just not very in touch with herself that way. In both 1st and 2nd books, she is very emotionally detached, period. She has people she loves... family and friends... but doesn't allow herself to have that romantic love which would be solely for her own needs/enjoyment. Its almost as though she's so detached, she'd consider that sort of needing of someone else as weakness. 2) Out of some misguided respect for Gale, and awareness of his jealousy. And 3), I truly feel that she's resistant to acknowledging the depth of her true feelings for Peeta because she has no choice but to pretend and create this epic love story for President Snow and the Capital to fawn over. Its not till the end, when the Capital and Snow hold zero power over her, and she feels as though she's accomplished enough for others that she allows herself to embrace how she's really always felt for Peeta and have something for herself.
My take: the first two books might have had an anti-war/oppression message, but really wound up glorifying war/conflict by having this amazing hero in this amazing conflict. Fight the power! It's what everyone loved about them, including me. Great writing, and a great action hero. In the third book, I guess the author really wanted to get back to the anti-war message, hitting home with "nobody wins in a war." So nobody wins, and it's tragic.
I don't mind tragedy. 1984 is my favorite novel. But after I read Hunger Games and Catching Fire, I didn't expect a bleak, downer, tragedy.
Myself, I didn't hate it. I loved it. But it made me sad.
Because Prim died.
It didn't upset me that prim died. I was more upset bc of katniss's attitude during the whole book.it was like her fight was gone.like the capital took away her stream. then when the climax of the story came she was knocked out cold, woke up and then you're told what happened. everyone has their own opinion of a book and the second book was my fav. im glad they won but i think how they got to the ending could have been better.
I didn't like this book at all when I read it the first time, it was too gloomy. But I read it a second time, took my time and I think it's a fitting end. I actually liked it a lot the second time. It was a realistic ending, it was sad but believable.Though, I do wish there was more about Katniss and Peeta's relationship.
It wasn't that I didn't dislike the ENDING it's that the whole book was one big bowl of bleh and here are my reasons why:1. It was so sloooooooooooow. It wasn't until the battle scene near the end that things really got exciting and then when that was over everything dialed back down, but up until then everything was very monotonous. There were no highs and, therefor, no lows. (You know...you need highs to feel lows:))
2. Katniss didn't quite seem like....well....Katniss. She was (understandably) depressed and was missing her trademark fire and spunk she had in the previous two books. It just wasn't enjoyable to read the book with the new lackluster Katniss narrating. Like I said, it's understandable that she would be depressed and stressed out, however, I believe Suzanne Collins could have expressed those emotions better without (for a lack of better words) killing Katniss in the process.
3. Peta. Peta Peta Peta. Peta wasn't himself, just like Katniss, however, Peta REALLY wasn't Peta. If I'm remembering correctly he was brainwashed and/or had his memory erased. So (and this is what reeaaalllyyy bothered me) he didn't even truly love Katniss. So, at the end of the day, as a member of Team Peta, I wasn't even excited that she ended up with him because he didn't even love her. He was told he was in love with her and the whole thing just seemed really forced even during the prologue! I almost wish she had ended up with Gale, someone who could actually say he loved her and had memories and trials and triumphs to share with her.
So, there's that:) Suzanne Collins could have done better and while I was disappointed I still enjoyed finding out how it ended.
Kelseyc wrote: "It wasn't that I didn't dislike the ENDING it's that the whole book was one big bowl of bleh and here are my reasons why:1. It was so sloooooooooooow. It wasn't until the battle scene near the en..."
Totally agree
I gave the ending a three star. Probably because the setting became hazy.
Sometimes I really wish there was an unlike button for all the comments on why people DIDN'T like this book. It was amazing, you just don't like what happened, which is pretty much the point right? But THAT is what made it good. Suzanne Collins did what not many would be brave enough to do, you say it was weird and hazy but I say it was gripping and turbulent, changing everything so profoundly. And Kelseyc is plain wrong when she says Peeta doesn't love Katniss anymore. And as for Katniss not being herself, she was! In fact, in the first two books she was STUPID and ANNOYING. I like her much better in Mockingjay.
Because its rushed and people start dying for no reason! I knew to not expect a happy ending but gee was it necessary for Finnick to die? Wasn't Prim dying enough? This book just makes you go numb with all the deaths.
Michael wrote: "Of the three books, the first was best, the second close to the first and the third was so so. The ending with Coin was predictable and her character was more 2 dimensional rather than Snow's who ..."I completely agree. It went downhill quickly. Though I thought Katniss acted pretty realistically for a teenager.
Hannah wrote: "Sometimes I really wish there was an unlike button for all the comments on why people DIDN'T like this book. It was amazing, you just don't like what happened, which is pretty much the point right?..."There is a difference between rushed and fast. I think because I read (or listened) to it a second time it made me like it more. The first time I read it I thought it was slow at first and then suddenly so much was happening; although I did like the ending the first time. Listening to it on audio the second time around, I thought it was deep, riveting, and turbulent. The fact that everything went upside down was what made it amazing; you have to be a brave person to do that to your book. I agree, Finnick didn't need to die; though I was more upset about it the first time than the second time, not getting as attached to him as I had been when I first read it two years ago. Prim, though, had to die. If she would've lived, Katniss would never have gotten married; lived her own life. The fact that she did die and what resulted was what made the book; Collins knew what she was doing. Maybe you liked Prim. That's fine; I personally didn't get attached to her. The fact that she died was what MADE the book. A lot of the time, people don't think of what made the book; they only think of what they wanted it to be, which, frankly, is shallow, because this book is 5 star stuff, as she wrote exquisitely, she just did it in a startling way, and it IS better the second time you read it. But I suppose, it all depends on your personality also, some people will get more attached to certain characters than others, even if they are minor characters.
Adam wrote: "Overall, I liked the ending. I thought it was refreshingly realistic for a book marked Young Adult to leave the characters with post-traumatic stress disorder. You just wouldn't recover completely ..."I completely agree with you on this. I was so much better with this ending than I was with Allegiant. Of course Peeta and Katniss would still struggle with what happened to them. That they still can bring each other some happiness, find some joy in a torn world I find to be a very hopeful and empowering message. Killing one or both of them would have been too easy. I mentioned it in the Allegiant discussion but sometimes, it is harder and braver to live than it is to die. I was pleased to see that Collins seemed to grasp that. I wanted Katniss and Peeta together (I actually didn't like Gale - sorry Gale-lovers) and I liked that it wasn't a sappy Twilight-like-happily-ever-after. Sometimes in life, you get happy enough.
OddModicum Rachel wrote: "Melissa wrote: "I agree with rebekah on some things- can live with Prim dying but would have preferred Finnick live, and the ending, as many people have said- did seem rushed. But I don’t agree wi..."Oh God, yes! The Handmaid's Tale was my first foray into dystopia as well so I guess I was prepared for a non-Disney type of HEA!
Meyouknow3 wrote: "Rebekah wrote: "Leigh wrote: "I think readers are irritated by the ending because it felt rushed and so many characters died, it felt like a bloodbath. Katniss is neurotic and disagreeable, and the..."Oh, I agree! I read that as Katniss refusing children out of fear, which she mentioned in the first book. It took 15 years for Peeta to convince her it was safe to have children and I think it is a testament to her love for him that she finally agreed. She trusted him enough to do the thing she feared most.
From an entertainment perspective the first book will always be my favorite. I just loved the games sequence so much and I really do hope Suzanne does a series about the previous games... On the other hand, the second and third books were still amazing and the way the series ended was perfect. I didn't feel it was rushed. I felt like it ended the way it needed to. It was a book about war and death, and nothing about that is supposed to come easy or slow or happy. But that is just my opinion.
The reason I was upset with the third book has more to do with the assault on the capital. It's like they tried to turn it into another scene like the games. It should have been more like street fighting combat. I know it's a science fiction book, but it lost me a little there. It didn't feel as real anymore in the third book.
Christina wrote: "Adam wrote: "Overall, I liked the ending. I thought it was refreshingly realistic for a book marked Young Adult to leave the characters with post-traumatic stress disorder. You just wouldn't recove..."This is gold! :)
People found the ending too negative? The previous 2 books are extremely dark and gritty, and certainly don't lead one to expect a happy ending. Collins could REALLY have gone dark and killed off Katniss, but she didn't.
I love these books but I have to admit the ending is definitely the weakest part. I never really liked Katniss' character apart from saving her sister from going into the games she comes across as selfish and moody all the time, however when reading the story you understand why she is like that and empathise with her which makes her a little less irritating. I particularly didn't like the epilogue because although the Author stayed true to her character it made me feel like she didn't deserve Peeta who has had the same experiences as her but doesn't sulk about it and still protects her! I also didn't like that their children wasn't named it made me feel like she wasn't grateful for her children and as a mum that me feel really sad. By the time I got to the end I wanted to tell S.Collins that her character really does need to get a grip no ones life is perfect!!!
Kat wrote: "I love these books but I have to admit the ending is definitely the weakest part. I never really liked Katniss' character apart from saving her sister from going into the games she comes across as ..."Um.... that's why Katniss needs Peeta. Peeta reminds her of happiness and light. Opposites, practically need each other. I've heard before that it's hard for couples who are more similar in their personalities.
I for one don't really know if I'm all down for the ending of that. I mean it seemed pretty pointless , it actually made me kinda of mad that it ended that way. I also understand the reason for it going down like that, and actually found the ending quite charming. I fell in love with the ending and the book.
Aisha wrote: "FINNICK DIED. HE FUCKING DIED. THAT SHOULD SAY IT ALL. I cried and it will haunt me for the rest of my life HE DIED. "He's a fictional character. He's immortal.
Minx wrote: "I for one don't really know if I'm all down for the ending of that. I mean it seemed pretty pointless , it actually made me kinda of mad that it ended that way. I also understand the reason for it ..."So, I'm interested, were you angry with the ending because it ended or because of what all happened? I find it interesting that you were angry with it but also loved it. lol I guess I'm more curious about your opinion :P
because prim is dead
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But I liked the end of mockingjay, I think it showed how much Katniss changed after the rebellion and how she was able to still love Peeta even though she has had a hard time showing compassion and love towards other people. I think she deserved a happy ending after everything and Suzanne Collins gave her the best she could.