Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion
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Documentaries (History related)
Margaret wrote: "SBS in Australia has a documentary series about Lady Jane Grey starting tonight at 7.30pm."Hmm.. do I or don't I watch this... I'll record it and have a look.
Actually I saw the diversity thing in the doco too.I have no problem with an African or a 'moor' being in some historical contexts as an advisory. It is completely reasonable that a moor may be involved in some settings of history, ie Templar histories, but I thought it historically inaccurate in this particular setting. I wanted to believe that he could be not only advised by a man of African heritage, but also to use him to carry personal messages to Harold. And to advise him on the channel crossing. But I just can't see it happening.
I also felt the same way about a woman historian playing Harold in the Historian part of the documentary.
I felt that was just for the sake of diversity too. So the show wasn't criticised for being 'male dominated'.
Harold was a man. Why wouldn't he be voiced by a man? I am a woman and I didn't need Harold to be voiced by a female.
Terri wrote: "Yeah, you went and got yourself all sick. Darn you. :0)But really. It is great that you are back healthy again."
Getting there. :)
Terri wrote: "Margaret wrote: "SBS in Australia has a documentary series about Lady Jane Grey starting tonight at 7.30pm."Hmm.. do I or don't I watch this... I'll record it and have a look."
I'm probably going to watch it. If I remember.
Going to play Devil's advocate here. There wasn't the racism in earlier periods of history that we have had in the last several centuries. It is know that there were black African Romans, the remains of which have been found. Indeed, there are several Roman period Egyptian mummy paintings that clearly show the deceased as being of African descent.It is also now thought that several black African's joined various Viking crews. The Normans were direct descendants of the Vikings. It is more than possible that there were black Normans. Hell, I KNOW there were. One of my ancestors was Norman-French. He was known as Phillipe the Black, due to the colour of his skin. He went to Ireland. And went native. Become more Irish than the Irish, from family accounts.
Terri wrote: "For the American audience, it appears PBS has the rights to it. Here is episode one (Sussex) on You Tube.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVSN...
For the Commonwealth it is BBC."
Oh! Thanks! I’ll be watching this :)
Robert wrote: "I tried watching Dan Snow’s new Norman show and it was absolutely awful. Not only did they have way too many re-enactments they took the diversity path and had William the Bastard (played by Ed Sto..."Orrrrrrrrrrr maybe I won’t be?!
🤣
Margaret wrote: "SBS in Australia has a documentary series about Lady Jane Grey starting tonight at 7.30pm."Awwwwwwww!!!
American tv is crap.
You Brits & Aussies have better viewing!
We do get a bit spoiled. :]
Margaret wrote: "Going to play Devil's advocate here. There wasn't the racism in earlier periods of history that we have had in the last several centuries. It is know that there were black African Romans, the remai..."Haha. Sure, you can play devils advocate. I still don't believe that William's righthand man and personal messenger was African.
William's other close confidants were the men he grew up with. And are known. These are the men who advised William. The men he bestowed vast lands and titles to after the Conquest.
Except we truly don't know what they looked like. They could've had polka dots for all we know.
We know those with William. Skin colour is portrayed in the Bayeux Tapestry. There are also bones and effigies. Written Sagas. Written and illustrated histories for most of those close to William.If William's advisor was an African, we would know. He was advised by men history knows about that were not African. He was also advised by his brother and other men of the church.
In few generations all these noble families who were close to the Conqueror had grandchildren making names for themselves in periods of history that were highly documented.
Someone of African decent would be noted. Like your ancestor was noted.
This is a period of history where defining features, such as red hair, skin colour, country of origin, way of walking, height, and so on... appeared in their recorded nicknames, and in ilustrations. The Domesday is full of them, as are the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles.
If William had an African advisor, especially one who this doco had as his closest and only advisor, it would have shown up in the written and illustrated histories.
Terri wrote: "The Romans would have thrown me to the leopards for my criticism of the Empire. :]"That was then. Or they'd have you open your veins. Maybe Vespasian would have just laughed it off though.
Central America! Earlier in the thread I said I'd started watching a doco about early South Americans. Central not south. I'm an idiot. Haha. Wasn't thinking.So the doco series is Lost Kingdoms of Central America.
Really enjoying it.
Margaret wrote: "Going to play Devil's advocate here. There wasn't the racism in earlier periods of history that we have had in the last several centuries. It is know that there were black African Romans, the remai..."You are right. We see now a lot of people whining about inclusion of minorities for the "sake of PC", but none of them complained about the erasing of these minorities in the past. Who complain about lack of historical evidence about black people or women hardly complain when men are put in women's roles or white people put in black/middle eastern/asian people. Even if there's evidence of these people being minorities.
We are facing this phenomena in Star Wars fandom. If there's a million white men it's ok. If there's one asian woman and 999,999 white men is PC.
Okay, the Jane Grey documentary.Terri, it will drive you nuts - it's one with dramatic reenactments.
However, the historians are good. Two of them, Leanda de Lisle and Anna Whitelock, I have read the work of. Excellent historians, both of them. Another, John Guy, I knew of. The fourth was an American historian whose name I missed.
What I really liked was the fact that they aren't going with the passive image that history has given Jane. They are showing that she was a Tudor female through and through. Strong, intelligent, and feisty.
It's in 3 parts, so I will watch the others. If only for the joy of seeing some of my favourite places such as the Tower of London and the British Library.
That's enough for me to give it a miss. :)Watching a few docos in last couple weeks has really soured me further on re-enactment heavy docos. And the Tudor period isn't something I have a lot iif interest in either, so re-enactment AND Tudor?? I'll skip it. :-D
I'll stick to my Central American Lost Kingdoms doco series. No re-enactment at all.
This a side note: Historians have acknowledged that Elizabeth I was very smart. I have read that her cousin, Jane Grey, was even smarter.
Oh boy! I could say something here. But I won’t. I’ll be good. Be good, Marilyn, my father used to say to me. Always be good. And my husband said, And you never listened to him! 😂😂😂
Marilyn wrote: "This a side note: Historians have acknowledged that Elizabeth I was very smart. I have read that her cousin, Jane Grey, was even smarter."That's what the historians were saying in this documentary. Jane could read and write English, French, Latin, and Hebrew! And she was learning Italian.
They also pointed out that a woman with Mary Tudor (Henry VIII's sister) as a grandmother, was fostered by Catherine Parr, and whose step grandmother was noted scholar Katherine Willoughby, was NEVER going to be the meek & submissive little baa lamb history has painted her.
Marilyn wrote: "Oh boy! I could say something here. But I won’t. I’ll be good. Be good, Marilyn, my father used to say to me. Always be good. And my husband said, And you never listened to him! 😂😂😂"hahaha. And you were good!
I've started watching more TV. Tomorrow night Tony Robinson's "Walking Through History" is on. Looking forward to that.
Enjoy!I like all Tony Robinson's docos.
We just finished watching his series Coast to Coast. It was great Lots of historical sites included in his walking journey from coast to coast northern England.
There is another one on SBS on Thursday night. Going to watch that as well. Can't remember which one it is though. Except it's another Tony Robinson.
There's a lot of them. :)
Yeah. The more the merrier. :)
The Tony Robinson documentary last night was a walk along the Dorset coast looking at it's WWII history. I immediately thought of happy. :) Not really my period, but the scenery was lovely.The documentary tonight is called "Britain's Ancient Tracks". This will probably be a slightly more interest to me. :)
Hmm Britain's Ancient Tracks. I might see if that is available to stream/download via Foxtel. Sounds more my style than the WWII one.
The episode was about the Ridgeway. An ancient track crossing the chalk downs in Wiltshire and heading into Oxfordshire.Tony Robinson started off at Avebury (love that place), also saw Wayland's Smithy and loads of other interesting places. Looking forward to next week's episode.
Margaret wrote: "The Tony Robinson documentary last night was a walk along the Dorset coast looking at it's WWII history. I immediately thought of happy. :) Not really my period, but the scenery was lovely.The do..."
:D
I do like Tony Robinson Documenteries! Although I have to watch most of them on YouTube.
At least they are available on YouTube, happy. :)
https://yesterday.uktv.co.uk/shows/vi... here's a show running in the UK currently. jus watched the episode about the Viking ship (The Oseberg) in Oslo museum which was mentioned on another thread recently. really good series, one of the others was about the Ridgeway Vikings (the 50 skulls in a pit seperate from the rest of the bodies) which was found about 5 miles from where I live
Andy wrote: "https://yesterday.uktv.co.uk/shows/vi... here's a show running in the UK currently. jus watched the episode about the Viking ship (The Oseberg) in Oslo museum which was mentioned on another ..."Will keep an eye open for for that one, thanks Andy.
Mark wrote: "Andy wrote: "https://yesterday.uktv.co.uk/shows/vi... here's a show running in the UK currently. jus watched the episode about the Viking ship (The Oseberg) in Oslo museum which was mentione..."Ive been sky+ it, think we're on Ep 6 already
With my recent trip to the Shakespeare Festival I thought I would rewatch (It has been years since I've sat down an pursued it:)) Michael Wood's In "Search of Shakespeare"He traces the Bard's life from the early days as a glove makers son in Stratford through to he death as a gentleman farmer back in Stratford in 1616 - it from the early 2000s
Really enjoyable 4 hours - SPOILER (view spoiler)
Andy wrote: "https://yesterday.uktv.co.uk/shows/vi... here's a show running in the UK currently. jus watched the episode about the Viking ship (The Oseberg) in Oslo museum which was mentioned on another ..."I'll be keeping an eye out for this one too! Obviously. ;) Right up my alley
Someone else doesn't like historical "reconstructions" in documentaries: Professor Mary Beard.https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
I think for the most part I agree with Mary Beard, I much prefer to have more information in a documentary than it being padded out with dodgy camera angled fight scenes and renaissance fair folk ;). . .the BBC are bad for that now I think of it.
AGREED!!! You all know I do. :-) I go on about it enough.Hate those reconstructions/re-enactments.
The lone dissenter (again!) 😁 raises his hand and says I'm quite enjoying fronteirsman at the moment which has a mix of action and history and finding it does bring the episodes to life.As for Mary Beard, I can't say I've found her easy viewing, I've tried a couple of het shows and had to give up.... Simon scharma is another who begins to annoy after a while whilst Alice Roberts is very good.
All depends on the presenter and there delivery as much as the content for me
Not really familiar with the woman myself. I know she wrote a few books. That's about it.I see the B-list actors brigade has jumped on her for daring to call them 'b-list actors'. Ridiculous. They are B grade actors. Who are they kidding?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...
Mary Beard's books are better than her presentation skills. But she really does know her stuff, which is Classical Greece & Rome, emphasis on Rome. I have read most of her books.
Margaret wrote: "Mary Beard's books are better than her presentation skills. But she really does know her stuff, which is Classical Greece & Rome, emphasis on Rome. I have read most of her books."I've read the one on Rome: SPQR and was impressed.
SPQR was excellent.
Mark, are these talks on YouTube or someplace else I could access??
May wrote: "Mark, are these talks on YouTube or someplace else I could access??"Sorry everyone I accidentally deleted the post, will repost.
Richard III Facebook talk https://facebook.com/events/s/richard...Talk about the grey friars this Thursday at 730pm. https://facebook.com/events/s/reveali...
You have to be on Facebook to listen I am trying to find out if these are going YouTube or else where.
Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction
Authors mentioned in this topic
Marc Morris (other topics)Giles Kristian (other topics)
Ken Follett (other topics)
Dan Jones (other topics)
Ken Follett (other topics)
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But really. It is great that you are back healthy again.