The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
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I don't remember hating Thorin this much in the book..
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Thorin is a fascinating, awsome character in the book and the movies. Part of what makes him so interesting is his greed and racism. He is just a flawed character. I don't get what's wrong with having a flawed character.
Danny wrote: "Thorin is a fascinating, awsome character in the book and the movies. Part of what makes him so interesting is his greed and racism. He is just a flawed character. I don't get what's wrong with h..."Nothing. I just don't remember him being awful in the book. Perhaps he was. Iam perfectly happy to hate him. But isn't it odd to have such a worthless little shit as a hero in a rather straight forward heroic fantasy?
Mari wrote: "Danny wrote: "Thorin is a fascinating, awsome character in the book and the movies. Part of what makes him so interesting is his greed and racism. He is just a flawed character. I don't get what'..."I would GUESS Bilbo is the hero, since the novel is called The Hobbit... also, I seriously don't understant why you say he's a "worthless little shit".. I'm not trying to hate, I just seriously cannot understand o.o Thorin is very greedy both in the novel and in the movie, but he is brave and despite everything, loyal.
Mari wrote: "Danny wrote: "Thorin is a fascinating, awsome character in the book and the movies. Part of what makes him so interesting is his greed and racism. He is just a flawed character. I don't get what'..."What movie did you watch? Thorin is really likable. He has a lot of good qualities anyway. He's a good leader, he cares about his people, he's brave etc. He just has some flaws too.
There is a reason thorin is played out like this in the movie as I agree , but I did not get this impression in the book, just me I guess. I think in the end Thorins ..unlikeable qualities will be redeemed. He has got a chip on his shoulder ,and when he stands corrected he pays a price. Throughout this adventure Thorin's foil is IMHO Bilbo, not the white orc. Bilbo on the other hand learns little from these dwarves, but he does make lasting friends.
Oh, yeah, Thorin in the book was SO self centered, so tunnel visioned... That it was HIM who caused all the problems, all his bragging, and his avarice that caused the huge war (wasn't it called the War of Five Armies??).I'm finding him a bit soft, too likable in the movies. I think he's too handsome in the movies. His selfishness doesn't show enough on his face. I'm already pitying him, which isn't supposed to happen till near the end when the Spoiler stuff happens.
Joana wrote: "Mari wrote: "Danny wrote: " I would GUESS that Bilbo is the hero as it is called the Hobbit. Also I don't understand why you say he is a "worthless little shit"...I am not trying to hate...Yes...I understand that the Hobbit is the central figure, but in fantasy fare you usually have a band of heroes. Thorin is a part of that band. Are you being rude on purpose? Or trying to make me seem stupid for calling Thorin a Hero rather then part of a band of heroes? Its not going to work.
Yeah, he is brave when it comes to dwarves getting gold. Willing to let Bilbo, and everyone else in that town die for dwarves in fact. How exactly is he loyal? He was willing to let his followers rot rather then be polite to the elf king. Just because the elf king didn't decide to help dwarves, who never help anyone. Loyal to dwarves getting rich, sure. Sorry, but I hate being condescended to. Perhaps thats why you like Thorin, undeserved pride is not a quality that bothers you.
Danny wrote: "Mari wrote: "Danny wrote: "What movie did you watch? He is a likeable character. He is a good leader. He cares about his people. He is brave. He just has a few flaws."I watched the movie where Thorin turned down a proposition from the elven king out of spite, which would have left his people to rot. He didn't care about that at all. He lucked out because unknown to him Bilbo had the ring and saved him, not that Thorin was grateful or anything. So he is a terrible leader.
Not to mention he had no RIGHT to be angry at the elf king.for doing nothing to help the dwarves! So what? Dwarves have been shown to help out no one, and Thorin knows it. Why should dwarves expect to be treated well when they treat no one well?
He is a terrible leader, and does not care abut his people, or he wouldn't have been willing to let them rot in jail out of pride. He wasn't even under the spell of that stone yet. Just his usual, worthless self.
He is brave. He is willing to die to get gold. He is also willing to let others get killed so he can have gold. Graet guy.
KryZad The Last Knight Templar wrote: "That is a character of Thorin. He was being corrupted by the treasure hoard like Thror was until he was willing to even fight the Men and Elves rather than giving them a share for killing Smaug. Dw..."OK, that makes sense...Question; How is he being corrupted by that stone, and the horde before he even gets there? I mean he starts acting evil as soon as he gets to that town, telling the Master of the Town about how he is going to give them a part of the gold, and talking them into getting killed by dragon fire and ignoring Bard's warning... he hadn't even seen the hoard yet.
He's a flawed character.He was brought up to KNOW he was King Under the Mountain. But yet, was not. Since they weren't there. So his upbringing flawed him before he ever got there.
Yes, he never had a chance. That is how he was written in the book. And that's before he ever gets close to the whole treasure.
Surely you know someone who is caught up in "owning things": it MUST be the biggest house, the best hair stylist, the fake nails, everything to show exaggerated status in our own world? Maybe even a name dropper? Thorin is such a person, comparatively.
Meran wrote: "He's a flawed character.He was brought up to KNOW he was King Under the Mountain. But yet, was not. Since they weren't there. So his upbringing flawed him before he ever got there.
Yes, he never..."
Ok. I see ...so the plight of his people, and knowing he should be king was sort of poisoning him, and then the magic stone made him flip the whole way. OK. Thank you.
I'm suspecting that someone didn't see what Thorin was really like in the book.Almost from the moment he stepping into Bag End, he was haughty, arrogant, and cold. His avarice and high-handedness were responsible for their extended imprisonment in Thranduil's dungeon and for the Battle of Five Armies.
Despite that, he was also brave, fierce, and loyal to his kin (if I remember correctly, most of the Company were his blood relatives).
He's not the typical one-dimensional heroic fantasy cliche of a dwarf warrior. That may be why you are finding it hard to understand where his depiction in the movie comes from.
Marithat invective was way over the line. From someone who also can be very rude on the message threads, I found your response especially so. Please tone it down. You were not under personal attack, so don´t unncecessarily créate a flame war.
Your language was a bit over the top. "that worthless Little shit" is hardly appropriate language for this message thread. Please take it in back to the outhouse.
P.s. You have more reason to vent your venom at me as I have actually reproved you quite candidly.
Funny but I've always blamed Bilbo for the intransigence of Thorin to sharing his treasure. He did not want to loose any control over it until he'd gotten the Arkenstone. And where was that Arkenstone? Bilbo kept it for himself. I have not yet seen Jackson's second installment of the film.
Mari wrote: "Joana wrote: "Mari wrote: "Danny wrote: " I would GUESS that Bilbo is the hero as it is called the Hobbit. Also I don't understand why you say he is a "worthless little shit"...I am not trying to h..."Dude, chill... I think it's more about Bilbo than Thorin, even though they're both main characters and both obviously very important to the story, as are the other dwarves. Also, no I'm not doing any of that, nor am I being rude, you just seem to take things very personally o.o
Thorin may be greedy yes, as dwarves are known to be, but first of all, we all know dwarves and elves don't get along, so if I was in front of an enemy who was trying to get some of my gold (in his mind, it was his property)I'd tell him off too. If he asked the other dwarves, they would probably have said the same thing too.
He was brave because he wanted to fight for what was his home and his rightful place. Even if it involved treasure, it was still something that not everyone would do.
Tolkien himself writes in the novel that Thorin may be greedy, but that he was loyal to his friends and sometimes yes, he thought that leaving Bilbo behind would suit them better, but he did the right thing by waiting on a complete stranger. I don't know it you noticed, but they were all locked away, Thorin included. He made a choice and they were all to pay for it, as a team - that's what leaders do. He was the rightful king under the mountain, he was leading the expedition so he did what he felt (not saying it was the best option in general, but for him it felt like it was) was right. I don't think he's to blame for that, even though yes, he is flawed. But then again, even Bilbo got greedy with the Arkenstone.
I think Thorin is very well portraited in the movie. When I read the book, I grew to dislike him more and more, but in a way, I really liked it.He is the character I love to 'hate'. Especially since I know how he changes at the end of the book.
He has flaws. He is a dwarf. What is wrong with his character? In the movie, he is well portrayed, as loyal to the group. Apparently he is not one to take a huge risk for one person, but that is one of his flaws. I LIKE his character.
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I remember him being a greedy ass in the book, but not the rest?