Chronicles of Narnia by C. S. Lewis

[Emily]

I loved Prince Caspian! I thought Susan's attitude was perfectly explainable by the age-old phrase, "teenage girl." Edmund redeemed himself to me and it was overall lovely.

[Lee]

I like Edmund too. He's actually become my favorite of the siblings. Go figure. Lol. His story is the most interesting one to me too. (view spoiler)[ Going from what could be considered a villain to becoming a hero. (hide spoiler)]

[Kathy]

I'm planning on finishing Steelheart this weekend and starting Voyage of the Dawn Treader (maybe even finish that this weekend, too). I'm so anxious and trying so hard not to read the spoilers!

[Nyssa]

Nienna wrote: "The thing about Susan that bothers me the most is [spoilers removed]"

I took it as (view spoiler)[ because she is pretty and she is poor in school, while still being mature for her age, her parents figured she might be able to find better opportunities and/or connections (job wise or marriage) in America.
Which, also could be a dig at the States - claiming that she would do better there (with a lack of education) than she would in the UK. (hide spoiler)]

Oh and, I'm only 2 chapters (22pgs) in, but I can't stand Eustace!!

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

"Nienna wrote: "The thing about Susan that bothers me the most is [spoilers removed]"

You know, I think I took it as (view spoiler)[Susan thought she was so pretty that she didn't have to worry about school. I have a friend who thinks I'm pretty and she's always saying that if she "looked like me she'd never have to work." She also dropped out of college... (hide spoiler)]

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

But I still have a problem with (view spoiler)[Susan and how she's characterized. I almost feel that Lewis doesn't like Susan or something. I just remembered that Susan is in The Horse and His Boy, too. (hide spoiler)]

[Nyssa]

Anybody else annoyed by Eustace's (view spoiler)[ immediate change of character after his transformation into a dragon (hide spoiler)]? I know we are supposed to suspend or disbelief, but it's being instantaneous was quite jolting.

The religious theme, (view spoiler)[ in the form of the baptism (hide spoiler)], was very clear this time.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

I just finished Dawn Treader. Haven't decided how to rate it yet. 2.5ish.

I was also annoyed by that, Nyssa - it didn't make much sense how fast it was, but a lot happened quickly. And conveniently (view spoiler)[ like Caspian being bought by one of the Lords and quickly taking he island back. (hide spoiler)]

I was kind of annoyed with (view spoiler)[ the constant Deus ex machina in general. I guess it's to be expected in a book like this with all the religious themes, but it grew wearisome that every time there was an issue Aslan would be seen and everything would be fine.

I guess it's a metaphor for our conscience or whatever, but I got tired of it. Actually, by the end of the book I got tired of the whole thing in general, and was just waiting for it to be over. (hide spoiler)]

[Nyssa]

Colleen wrote: "I just finished Dawn Treader. Haven't decided how to rate it yet. 2.5ish.

I was also annoyed by that, Nyssa - it didn't make much sense how fast it was, but a lot happened quickly. And convenientl..."

I haven't finished it yet, but I understand exactly how you feel.

While the first instance was okay, and even enjoyable (I mean who doesn't like to see the good guys win, and in such spectacular fashion), the rest of it so far ((view spoiler)[ like pushing the serpent off of the boat (hide spoiler)]) has been a little more than ridiculous.

Were children so simplistic back then that they could only handle so much adventure? I don't mean that as a slight; I'm just curious as to how much would have been "too much" for the average child in Lewis' day. Could it be that the adults undermined the extent of a child's fortitude and imagination?
*Maybe Lewis was low on ideas or stamina and ran out of steam, storytelling wise, during this one. The basics are interesting, but as you say, rushed, and there isn't a lot of "story" in this story.

*I need to remember to use this in my review!!

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

It really did feel like it ran out of steam halfway...

As for being simplistic - I do think part of it is a sign of the times, along with the gender role stuff (view spoiler)[ like poor Lucy waiting at the fire for the boys to go looking for Eustace... (hide spoiler)], and things did seem simpler then, at last in media. I mean, look at things like Leave it to Beaver compared to even kids shows today.

I think another - perhaps bigger - part of it is the moralizing, though. But I might be a bit biased...

[Lee]

My last favorite thing about Lewis's writing is he tended to tell instead of show. Like when Eustace (view spoiler)[ changed from a dragon back into a boy. I would rather have seen his "baptism" than Eustace tell me about it. (hide spoiler)] A narrator, or writer, telling what happened after it already happened is without a doubt my least favorite plot device.

So far this is my least favorite of the Narnia books.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

IDK, I sorta feel that the series was written for a much younger audience - I mean, I read these while still in elementary school - but as I read I do get the feeling it's supposed to be more like an adventure story - like Odysseus.

I did notice (view spoiler)[that it seems that each island they stop on represents some type of sin, which is a little tiresome. (hide spoiler)]

[Nyssa]

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "IDK, I sorta feel that the series was written for a much younger audience - I mean, I read these while still in elementary school - but as I read I do get the feeling it's supposed to be more like ..."

The only ones I recognized were greed and vanity.
I'm not sure what we were supposed to take away from the statue, though. The situation seemed like nothing more than being unaware.

But then again, I haven't finished the book yet. I hope to do so this morning.

[Lee]

I feel so stupid. I didn't catch that at all! But now that you mention it... Yeah I can see it. I didn't even connect (view spoiler)[ Eustace baptism. I just thought it was a strange scene. (hide spoiler)] And I even went to Sunday school during the summer when I was a kid.

I have no problem with the religious aspects of the series. Not yet anyway. And I think the simplicity of it has a lot to do with the intended age group of the reader. But I felt like Voyage was missing the magic of the first and even the second one. I kind of wondered if Lewis was talked into writing another one and he didn't want to. The next one (at least I *think* its the next one) The Silver Chair seems like it'll be better.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

I do agree that it's meant to be an adventure story, and pretty much all of the MG books I've read (which are a lot) have some kind of lessons involved. It depends on the author about how well those lessons are integrated into the story and almost subtextual, and how much they beat you over the head with it...

Perhaps what I feel is Lewis' lacking in this regard is actually tied up with the whole telling vs. showing thing. Maybe with the TvS, the thin characterizations, and the constant (view spoiler)[deus ex machinas which make for a boring ass adventure (hide spoiler)], it's just not a particularly well written book.

And I won't be giving him a pass just because it's written for kids. I've read a lot of good kids books which are a lot better written. I will make some allowances for the time period, though, as what's considered good writing does change over time and I do think they thought children were dumber than modern psychology tells us they are.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Of the stories left, the only ones I remember enjoying is the Horse and His Boy. I remember The Silver Chair as being weird and I never enjoyed the Last Battle. I'm not a huge fan of The Magician's Nephew, either.

[Dawn, Dawnerys, Mother of Modding]

Almost done with Prince Caspian.. I'm a little behind. But just a general comment.. Susan is annoying as crap. I get that she's a teenage girl and all.. But she's seriously pushing my annoyance limits. I'll take Edmund over her any day!

[Emily]

I will say, I am reading Lion, Witch & the Wardrobe to my almost 4 year old, and he is really loving it. I don't know that any of the others would hold is attention yet, though.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Emily wrote: "I will say, I am reading Lion, Witch & the Wardrobe to my almost 4 year old, and he is really loving it. I don't know that any of the others would hold is attention yet, though."

Yaaaay! Get them while they're young. :)

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

So, what do yall think of Eustace's parents??

From the way they are described I get the feeling that Lewis disapproved of them.

[Lee]

Lol.

Lewis was obviously making a case of (view spoiler)[ spare the rod and spoil the child with Eustace wasn't he? (hide spoiler)]

[Kathy]

I just finished Voyage of the Dawn Treader and it was definitely my least favorite so far. And I really don't like Eustace! For some reason this book kept reminding me of Gulliver's Travels...and how much I really didn't like that either. Basically what I got from this book was....(view spoiler)[sailing....stop at island, deal w/ some stuff....sailing....stop at island, deal w/ some stuff....sailing...etc. BORING! (hide spoiler)]

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Nienna wrote: "Lol.

Lewis was obviously making a case of [spoilers removed]"

Yes, that! But I think there's something else, too.
(view spoiler)[at the end his mom says he's now tiresome [since he's changed.] (hide spoiler)]

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Kathy wrote: "I just finished Voyage of the Dawn Treader and it was definitely my least favorite so far. And I really don't like Eustace! For some reason this book kept reminding me of Gulliver's Travels...and..."


yeah, pretty much

[Kathy]

Dawn Treader definitely bummed be out! I liked the first 2 so much! :(

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "Nienna wrote: "Lol.

Lewis was obviously making a case of [spoilers removed]"

Yes, that! But I think there's something else, too.
[spoilers removed]"


Yeah, I didn't get a (view spoiler)['spare the rod spoil the child' thing as much as a 'spoiled, disagreeable adults will raise spoiled, disagreeable children'. (hide spoiler)]

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Colleen wrote: "MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "Nienna wrote: "Lol.

Lewis was obviously making a case of [spoilers removed]"

Yes, that! But I think there's something else, ..."

Yup, I was getting something like that. Plus (view spoiler)[ get the feeling that Lewis had a problem with the type of people they were as well. The whole thing with calling them by their real names, IIRC they both were smokers and liberals, right? (hide spoiler)]

[Lee]

^ Yeah. That. I picked up on an anti (view spoiler)[ liberal slant as well. (hide spoiler)]

[Nyssa]

Nienna wrote: "^ Yeah. That. I picked up on an anti [spoilers removed]"


Okay, so that wasn't just my imagination.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

I glazed over that part, honestly, but it doesn't surprise me.

[Jackie]

I started Voyage of the Dawn Treader this weekend. I still need about 40 pages to finish. I agree with the comments so far. I find that I'm getting more and more annoyed by things I let pass before. For example, (view spoiler)[ The gender biases are starting to piss me off. Particularly, Susan being the pretty one so she gets a free pass in life. This bothered me in the movie too, but I think it's even worse in the book because Susan gets rewarded by going to America even though she sucks at school, so it's clear her parents are husband hunting for her. She would get the "most out of the trip" after all. (hide spoiler)]

In regards to Eustance- He was an annoying little shit in the movie, so I didn't expect any less in the book. I did find the reference to his parents liberal ways funny. I do agree that his (view spoiler)[ "change of heart" happens way too suddenly.

I don't know who said it, but Aslan appearing and now everything is forgiven...yeah, that bugged me too. Life just doesn't happen that way. I don't like that characters are simply being told to let go of things and it's done because Aslan says so.

Also, I don't like that Aslan is more 'scary' in this book. Lucy disagrees with him and he starts growling, so she backpeddles and says she'll try to forget what she saw her friend say. Aslan is coming off more like a dictator than a spiritual being. (hide spoiler)]

Re: religious aspects- (view spoiler)[ I was completely dense on this because I didn't catch the 7 deadly sins or the baptism. Doh! I think I was too wrapped up criticizing everything else to see them. (hide spoiler)]

Anyway, this one is definitely my least favorite of the stories so far and I can't wait to finish so I can move on.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

@Jackie - re: (view spoiler)[Aslan becoming scarier - I'd noticed he was a bit scarier here (I felt like it was like an introduction to the fear of godhood. But he's always discussed in a slightly scary way: "He's not a tame lion, you know." That is said in regards to Aslan in almost every book. But I thought that Aslan was growling was more due to Lucy lying. (hide spoiler)]

[Jackie]

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "@Jackie - re: [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I do agree that he's always been described as scary, but he seemed more approachable and loving in the other books. Not so much in this book. I also agree that it may be the "fear of God" being introduced. Either way, I'm not feeling this Aslan.

He did growl at her for lying, but I thought he also growled when she said she didn't know if she could forget the comments her friend made. I have to check the book. I may have made that up :P

(hide spoiler)]

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

So, I haven't really started Silver Chair, just glanced at the first page, but found it amusingly tied in with (view spoiler)[the anti-liberal thing since he hates psychiatry, apparently, and thinks liberals never discipline children. (hide spoiler)]

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Colleen wrote: "So, I haven't really started Silver Chair, just glanced at the first page, but found it amusingly tied in with [spoilers removed]"

Hmmm, I haven't picked it up yet. Still trying to get through Steelheart. I need to pick up the pace.

[Kathy]

I'm hoping to start Silver Chair at some point over the weekend. I'm hoping to finish the first story in Hearts in Atlantis then go into it.

[Lee]

He also had a problem with public school. Just a guess. I enjoyed the Narnia sections of the book more than I did 'Voyage' but some of his views had me rolling my eyes.

[Chris , cookie guilt]

So I still need to start Prince Caspian or something....

Yeah...

[Kathy]

I'm kind of nervous, I hope the books get better! I really liked "Lion" and "Caspian", but the last one was very disappointing. :(

[Jackie]

I'll start on Silver Chair this weekend. I finally finished Voyage. I didn't think that Lake of Lillies or whatever it was called was ever going to end!

[Kathy]

Jackie wrote: "I'll start on Silver Chair this weekend. I finally finished Voyage. I didn't think that Lake of Lillies or whatever it was called was ever going to end!"

That's how I felt about the book as a whole! :(

[Lee]

Kathy wrote: "I'm kind of nervous, I hope the books get better! I really liked "Lion" and "Caspian", but the last one was very disappointing. :("

I didn't like Voyage at all but I enjoyed Silver Chair. Lion is my favorite so far and Silver Chair is my 2nd.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

I love the Horse and His Boy.

I can't say why. I just do. *hugs book*

[Lee]

That one's next right? And then Magician's Nephew & The Last Battle?

I might go ahead and just finish the series ahead of schedule.

[Kathy]

Yeah, me too. It's quick, even with other books thrown in here and there. :)

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

Nienna wrote: "That one's next right? And then Magician's Nephew & The Last Battle?

I might go ahead and just finish the series ahead of schedule."

yup.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

So, it's kind of funny, because someone commented on my review for LW&W that I should definitely read the rest of the series because it gets much better than LW&W, to which I said that I had read Prince Caspian and Dawn Treader, but liked LW&W more, and she replied back that Dawn Treader was her favorite.

I was tempted to write something like, "That's funny, because in the group I'm reading this with, Dawn Treader has been *everyone's* least favorite... " - but decided against it. ;)

[Kathy]

Colleen wrote: "So, it's kind of funny, because someone commented on my review for LW&W that I should definitely read the rest of the series because it gets much better than LW&W, to which I said that I had read P..."


lol.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, Bad Girls Deadlift]

I just thought about saying that, myself.

But instead I had to comment on her FREAKING SPOILERS.

Ummm, no one who hasn't finished the series should go to this Colleen's review comments until pushy-girl changes her post.

Especially Becks.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon, Not a book hipster!]

Sorry. I didn't think of mentioning it since I already knew all the stuff she'd mentioned.