Martin, George R.R: A Clash of Kings [A Song of Ice & Fire #1] - ("Buddy Read" Revisit Start Date: January 2, 2014) - REVISIT November ??, 2015

[Zonnah]

Imke wrote: "but he doesn’t seem very smart"

So true :)

[Imke]

Chapter 20 (Tyrion) - Chapter 23 (Jon)
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42. I wish Tyrion could be king. He knows exactly what to do in situations and this chapter gives more evidence of this. Did you know who the "informer" was immediately when Cersei mentioned Myrcella? Did you feel sad for Cersei at all when she began to cry and Tyrion tried to comfort her? I felt more for Tyrion. It seems like he has much to give , but his family just doesn't see it.
Best line:
"The longer Cersei waits, the angrier she'll become, and anger makes her stupid. I much prefer angry and stupid to compose and cunning." I have to agree with Tyrion on that one.
Yes, I did. I didn’t feel sad for her, I don’t think her tears were real anyway. Tyrion trying to comfort her was a bit strange and it felt awkward, like he didn’t know what to do. He’s trying to do the best he can, but doesn’t have a lot to work with.

43. What was your first impression of Jojen & Meera? What did you think of the oath they gave, do you think it had any real meaning or just words they memorized?
I may come to like them. We didn’t get much information yet. The oath may have been rehearsed/memorized, but it did feel honest.

44. Why do you think Jojen wants to see the direwolves so much? Do you think his sister has the same kind of connection with the direwolves? Do you think Bran, Jojen and the wolves are all connected?
I think Jojen has some sort of connection to the dire wolves or maybe with the Gods. I think he has some sort of “gift” like Bran has. Maybe doesn’t have visions like Bran, but maybe he can feel the wolves emotions.

45. What was your first impression when Catelyn approach Lord Renly's little "party"? Her thoughts pretty much summed it up for me: "They are boys drunk on song and story..."
Same for me. They are just little boys playing war games.

46. What do you think of Brienne? Will she play an important role in the story? Do you feel the tiniest bit sorry for her? Her character reminds me a little bit of "Jane" from the HBO show Deadwood. Real tough on the outside, but there's something about her that makes me feel sad for her.
I don’t know how I feel about Brienne, she seems to want to be like the boys because she doesn’t look feminine and pretty, but she isn’t taken seriously and I think she may want something else.

47. "King is only a word, but fealty, loyalty, service..those I must have" Should Robb join Renly? I don't think Renly had any of those for his brother, so I think it's funny he's asking that of Robb.
No I don’t think he should join Renling. I don’t like the way he handles things he’s just a younger version of his brother Robert.

48. What is up with all the incest in the book. Craster makes me sick. I cringed when he said "I'm a godly man, and the Gods keep me safe.." Do you think Sam did the right think sending Gilly to Jon? Do you think Jon should have done something for Gilly?
I don’t think Sam did the right thing, he promised something he couldn’t deliver. I don’t think Jon could have done something for Gilly he had his orders and they have a long and difficult road ahead of them not something for a pregnant girl.

49. Who do you think the Cold Gods, white shadows are? Do you think they eat the children Craster gives them or raises them?
They are the others and the ones creating the living dead. I think they change them into what they are.

50. I'm getting a bad feeling about Sam. Anyone else think something bad is gonna happen to him?
Something bad is already happening to him, he doesn’t want to be there.
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[Zonnah]

Chapter 48 (Daenerys) – Chapter 51 (Jon)

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114. What is significant in the name “House of the Undying Ones”? Why does Xaro Xhoam Daxos refer to it as the “Palace of Dust”? What do we know really about Pyat Pree, other than he’s a warlock? And why in H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks did Dany go in there? Good gravy beans! At least she had Drogon with her. Whew!

They are dead forever and the "Palace of Dust" might mean that is where the warlocks are buried. We don't know anything about Pyat Pree but what we have been told: don't trust him. Good question? I can only think that she is still so young.

115. Was Dany seeing the past, the future, or both? Did anyone else feel inclined to bookmark pages 705-706 to see if they will come true?• three fires must you light... (life, death, love)
• Three mounts must you ride... (to bed, to dread, to love)
• Three treasons will you know... (blood, gold, love)Ahhh… There are three of them; has any part of them already come true?

I thought about bookmarking it but did not. I am pretty sure I will be reading these books again because there is so much that I have not completely understood.

116. Okay, I’m lost. Where is Tyrion sending Shagga and his clansmen off to? The kingswood? Why?

To kill Stannis's army that are scouting or bring food.

117. Is it just me, or is Tyrion having a bit of personality change? Where are all his funny quips? Now they seem bitter.

I did not think about it but you are right. Maybe he thinks he is going to die soon.

118. Though he tries to shrug it off, it seems as if Tyrion respected Winterfell and a part of him is sad to see its fall out of Stark hands. Does this bode well for any Starks in the future?

Yes. A side of me wishes Tyrion and Robb would start an alliance.

119. “Ser Osmund is as loyal as he is brave…” Queen Regent Cersei told King Joffrey, and internally, Tyrion agreed. But doesn’t Osmund’s disloyalty work both ways? Could this come back to bite Tyrion in the butt?

Still wondering about this one.

120. Hallyne the Pyromancer – does anyone else think he could be someone else in disguise? He did ask about the proximity of any dragons to explain the increase in wildfire…

I don't know what you mean by someone else but the question he asked I think was just to show us that even this far from the dragons they are having an effect and that more magic is going to come back.

Speaking of magic, I like the way the books have evolved with just tall tales of magic to it slowly coming back. The tall tales makes me think of all the fables we have and what would happen, not saying it will, but how people now days would start reacting if magic came back.

121. Speaking of dragons, how come no one (seemly) in the Seven Kingdoms knows Dany has three dragons now? I would have expected this news to spread far and wide. (Her pregnancy sure did!)

I was wondering the same thing. I think it will happen really soon thought now that she is at a big city.

122. Do you think any (or all) of the castle folk of Winterfell helped Bran, Rickon, and the rest escape or were they just as astonished as Theon? Will Theon ever have the loyalty of the people of Winterfell or is he doomed in this regard?

Someone had to have helped. I think he is doomed.

123. Were you pretty sure Osha would help Bran and Rickon, even after pledging to Theon, or did it come as a complete surprise?

It surprised me. She seemed to be a wild card to me but now I have more faith in her. I wonder if they are heading to the wall?

124. How did Bran, Rickon and the others elude Theon? Where are they anyway?

The only thing I can think of is the frog people are smart about that stuff and helped. Not sure where they are.

125. Was there any truth to Ygritte’s tale of Bael/Sygerrik and Brandon the Daughterless? Or did she just know the right button to push?

I am thinking there is. The reason why is she mentioned that House that skinned people back in the day and Theon mentioned it as well.

126. Were you pleased that Jon Snow showed compassion with Ygritte? Will this be detrimental or fortuitous in the future?

Please but scarred that she will tell on them as well.
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[Imke]

Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 24 (Theon) - Chapter 27 (Daenerys)
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51. Did you suspect something was up with Esgred’s identity before the big reveal? What is your take on her? Do you like her or not?
Something was up from the beginning. The way her smile was described made me think something was up and she wasn’t who she said she was.. I think I like her, she stands up for herself and took Theon down a notch.

52. Do you think Theon and Asha’s relationship will develop into an incestuous one?
No

53. Do you feel any sympathy for Theon whatsoever? After all, it wasn’t his fault he was held hostage for ten years. Do you think he will be able to “prove” himself? At what cost to his friendship with King Robb?
Maybe a little, but the way he acts! I know he was a hostage, but in my opinion the Starks took very good care of him and they showed him more loyalty then that he is receiving from his family. This costs Robb his friendship with Theon, but Theon isn’t a friend to Robb and he stabs him in the back as soon as the opportunity arises.

54. Are you clear on what “plum” Lord Balon Greyjoy plans to steal?
No

55. How poisoned do you think Cersei is? Will Tyrion do it again? Or will he use something different next time?
Not very he just gave her a little diarrhea. Maybe he’ll do it again when he wants her away from proceedings. He’ll use the same, it was effective.

56. Did Tyrion make any missteps in his dealings with Ser Cleos Frey cum King Robb? How about with Ser Allister? And Littlefinger?
Don’t think so.

57. Sorry to say I had to read the pertinent parts twice; however, am I right in thinking Tyrion is going to do a variation of the “Trojan Horse” trick to get into Winterfell? Are Tyrion's long “chains” going to be used there or somewhere else? (Before, I was thinking to block the ships from entering the harbor of King's Landing, but what do I know?)
I don’t think it’s Winterfell, but the place where Robb is.

58. So, Queen Regent Cersei, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycelle all say they didn’t poison Lord Arryn. It is looking more and more as if the Nut Bunny did do it! Does this change anything in your perceptions about these three?
No, they can’t be trusted all of them.

59. Man-oh-man! I am NOT liking where Arya "Weasel" is right now. I am, however, loving her prayer list, LOL! You?
Me too. And very smart, that way she’ll remember who gets payback.

60. Okay, I’ll admit I was a little lost and had to look in the appendix. Are Xaro Xhoan Daxos (merchant prince of Qarth), Pyat Pree (Qarth warlock) and Quaithe (shadowbinder of Asshai) the three that showed up to see the dragons, right? What is your take on them? If they have something sinister planned, are they in it together or separately? Are you glad Dany learned her lesson with Mirri Maz Duur?
Yes they were the three who wanted to see the dragons, but everyone wants to see the dragons. I don’t think they have something sinister planned, but they can’t be completely trusted. She definitely learned her lesson.
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[Imke]

Questions for Chapter 28 (Bran) through Chapter 31 (Catelyn)
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61. What do you think about Bran and Jojen both dreaming about 3-eyed crows? What does the crow represent?
I think the crow represents one of the old gods.

62. So, Bran still isn’t sure if he is remembering his fall or merely dreaming about it. What do you think Bran will do if/when he realizes for sure that Jaime Lanniser pushed him off the tower?
I don’t think he’ll do much, he seems to afraid. Maybe he’ll tell his mother or Maester Luwin.

63. Why did the direwolves not listen to Bran when he tried calling them off of Jojen and Meera?
Because he is part of them as they are a part of him as Meera and Jojen said. He was mad at them even though he doesn’t realize or believe it. It makes sense to me, because Rickons wolf acts out just like Rickon does.

64. So now Cersei is sleeping with her cousin Lancel. (What is worse, that he’s her cousin or that he’s a teenager?) Do you believe that Lancel will report Cersei’s actions to Tyrion?
I think he wil, he seems like a cowardly sort of person.

65. Now we know that Tyrion pretends to go to the brothel so that he can visit Shae. Why is it acceptable for him to go to the brothel but not keep a mistress, especially considering he doesn’t have a wife? Is visiting Shae the only reason for the pretense, or do you think he’s up to something else on other nights?
His father did forbid him to see Shae as soon as he reached kingslanding. He maybe up to something else, but he mainly goes to see Shae.

66. So, the “three in the cage” survived the fire after all. Were you surprised that Jaqen approached Arya and pledged three lives to her? Were you happy that she found an ally of sorts? Why do you suppose Arya chose Chiswyck as the first victim instead of the Mountain? Where is Gendry (did I miss something)?
I was surprised by Jaqen’s move and I’m not certain that he is an ally. I didn’t like the way he talked to Arya and treated her it felt off. I think she chose Chiswyck because of the story. Gendry is workin for the blacksmith, in the beginning of the chapter we were told where the three of them ended up and that she didn’t much see him.

67. Does Catelyn believe that Cersei’s children are Jaime’s?
I think she does.

68. The bickering between Stannis and Renly is almost comical, but the situation is so serious! At least Stannis seemed less zombie-esque in this chapter. He does have the right to the throne, so if Renly loses to him, will Stannis execute his brother for a traitor? This is where I want to say, “Can’t we all just get along?”
I couldn’t agree more with what Catelyn said that someone should bang their heads together and send them to their room. They are both acting like children.
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[Zonnah]

Chapter 52 (Sansa) through Chapter 55 (Catelyn)

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127. Do you see a way out for Sansa? I get the impression Dontos doesn’t really have a plan, even though he keeps reassuring her.

I still think the Hound will help.

128. What do you think about Sansa’s interaction with the Hound? For all his ferocity, I don’t think he would seriously hurt her. Then again, do you think he would if Joffrey commanded it?

I think that might be the first time he might disobey Joffrey.

129. Do you think that Cersei no longer expects Sansa to marry Joffrey? It sounds to me like she is almost resigned to Stannis winning the war. Does anyone else find it weird that Jaime was determined to be with Cersei in her birthing room? It felt like she was practically admitting an unnatural relationship with her twin.

Well, they did send off for a new marriage alliance. I don't think it was weird Jaime was the father and yes she is admitting to it.

130. Did you think Jon would be “in trouble” for letting the Wildling go free? I was relieved at Qhorin’s response.

I did not think that they would have figured out so soon and yes I am relieved.

131. Another mind-meld here, Jon and Ghost? The weirwood he sees has his brother’s face with three eyes. When he senses death, did you think at this point that Bran might be dead? I did! Do you think Ghost will heal?

Yes and yes.

132. Many times in this novel we learn of events after they’ve already happened. As the mother of a 4-year-old boy and a 7-year-old girl, I had to put down my Nook in disgust when I learned that Bran and Rickon had been murdered by Theon. Did you feel rage toward Theon and the author? I sure did! Tyrion seems more upset than Cersei, who I felt was pretty blasé about it.
I also had to keep the hope that the news was false to continue reading without complete outrange. The last chapter is Bran’s, so is this ghost Bran? Perhaps “Direwolf Bran”? Is Bran really dead??

I have been upset with the author several times in the book and have thought what does this say about him. But then I find myself still reading so really I can't say anything about him, lol. But, I was mad it seemed like Bran would have been someone who would not have been killed off. You are right about another Bran chapter: his ghost.

133. Did you know the “little whore” that Cersei had taken was not really Shae? Do you believe Tyrion will make good on his promise to hurt Cersei?

Not until they told us. Most defiantly, he seems to do what he says.

134. How in the world is Catelyn able to keep the news about Bran and Rickon to herself? (Here is another theory of mine: Bran/Rickon changed clothes with Jojen and Meera, and that is who was actually murdered! Ages don’t match, but still…. I am in complete denial here.)

I would not, very weird. I also thought is weird that Brieene (hope I spelled that right) did not know that she had daughters. I don't know why but Catelyn rarely mentions them.

135. Were you surprised Jaime admitted to throwing Bran off the tower? I was, especially considering he’s chained and helpless.

No, he has always been arrogant.

136. So… who sent the assassin after Bran with the knife?? Will we ever find out?

Littlefinger?

137. Ooooooh, what will Catelyn do with Brienne’s sword?

Kill him, oh wait herself?
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[Zonnah]

Chapter 56 (Theon) – Chapter 59 (Tyrion)

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138. “They gave me no choice.” That seems to be Theon’s mantra. Are you in agreement? I kept remembering him kicking that severed head around like a ball at the beginning of A Game of Thrones in comparison to (finally) beheading Farlen. He’s finding the “glory” of being Prince of Winterfell is in reality more “gory” than his conscience can handle. Are you feeling any sympathy for him?

You always have a choice.

139. Who do you like better by the end of chapter 56, Theon, or his sister, Asha?

Asha but really neither.

140. Where you surprised Theon had not killed Bran and Rickon? What are his reasonings for letting everyone think they are dead? Is compassion any part of them?

I was so relived. No. I think it is his ego. He did not what to be made fun of.

141. When she is with King Joffrey, do you love Sansa’s internal dialogue as much as me?

Nope.

142. The coming battle seems to have extinguished the “mob” mentality. When Sansa was among the singing crowd of the sept, were you at all afraid for her?

No, I was wondering what happened to her though.

143. The Queen Regent Cersei (who dressed for the occasion) told Sansa that Ser Ilyn is there for protection. Is this really the case, or is he there to behead someone else? Sansa’s would prefer the Hound to protect her. Comments?

I think she might try to behead Sansa if things don't go to plan. Or if her son dies maybe kill the prostitute she has.

144. Besides the obvious “B” word, what is another I’m looking for to describe Queen Regent Cersei’s comments and attitude toward Sansa? Patronizing?

It feels to me like she has given up.

145. What were you thoughts on the battle at Blackwater Bay/Kings Landing? Interesting? Were you able to keep all the ships straight and which side they were on?

I found this chapter very tedious and found myself wanting to skim read for the first time in the series.

146. Finally, we know what Tyrion’s chains were for! (I thought they would keep the ships out of the harbor, not trap them in.) Was this a clever plan?

Yes, it was not expected. I kept hoping that Davos would turn away once he saw the trap but he did not.

147. After the last time, I was surprised to see Davos still alive for this chapter (I’ve quit looking for chapter names for a while). Think he’ll survive this one? Will the resourceful old pirate, Salladhor Saan, and his proud Valyrian, save Davos?

I think he will survive. Not sure how though.

148. “Mother promised I could have the Whores.” Were you remembering the little piss ant King Joffrey, the rabbits, and his new crossbow when he made this sulking statement?

Nope, just thinking how he could be such an idiot.

149. Were you surprised at Sandor Clegane's refusal to return to battle? What about Tyrion; were you impressed? Did he have any other choice? Will he be successful?

Yes and yes. He seems to be the type that will do what is nessasary to get something done. I don't think he did have another choice. If he had time to send for someone, maybe, but he did not. I think he will be successful.

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[Zonnah]

Chapter 60 (Sansa) - Chapter 63 (Daenerys)

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150. Well, we get a glimpse at what makes Cersei tick and it ain't pretty. Why was she giving Sansa all that advice if she knew she'd never be queen?

I think she needed someone to talk to.

151. Do you think Tyrion will survive and, if so, in what shape? The story would be so boring without him.

Yes he will survive.

152. Should Sansa have gone with the Hound?

Not sure.

153. Why do I get the feeling Sansa should stay away from Ser Dontos.

Because he is an idiot who is besotted.

154. Do you believe Stannis is dead and do you believe that both Cersei and Joffrey survived? It sounded like she was about to kill herself. I just can't see this as the end to Cersei, Joffrey, and Sansa. What would be left to the story?

Confused.

155. Where the heck is Robb? Is he dead?

No.

156. Daenerys looks to be in prime position to take over her rightful place as Queen. What do you think?

I think she should try.

157. Darn! I was hoping to know what the Song of Ice and Fire was. Could it mean a uniting of Robb (ice) with Daenerys (fire)?

I was wondering the same thing.
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Chapter 64 (Arya) – Chapter 67 (Tyrion)

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158. It sure seems as if Harrenhal is unlucky for those who rule there. I can’t really blame Arya for wanting out of that place. Think it is haunted, or jinked, or something? What does this foretell for Littlefinger? (If he ever gets to own it.)

I am not a fan of Littlefinger so he can have it, lol. I am happy she is leaving.

159. Did you ache just a little for Arya when she grieved for her brothers? Do you think that was really Lord Stark, Arya’s father, talking to her in the godswood?

I did not think about that but maybe with how things are going.

160. Is Arya going to be a “skinchanger” like Bran? Will all the Stark children be able to do this?

Not sure, maybe, Jon seems to have it as well.

161. Gendry and Hot Pie seemed pretty unhappy with Arya; were you surprised they went with her? Clever Arya, taking those maps; think they’ll come in handy for something other than finding her way to a safe place? BTW, will she really go to Riverun?

Yes, after how they were acting it did seem unusual. I hope at the bare minimum she gets a break.

162. Did you think Arya had it in her to kill that guard? Think the coin had anything to do with it?

I think she is strong with or without the coin.

163. Was King Joffrey’s whole wimpy “Mother!” court scene too, too pathetic, or what? At least Sansa’s has a sense of humor. Nevertheless, what ever will they do with her now?

You would think the people would loose faith in him after that. If I was Sansa I would be afraid for my life.

164. Okay, just who is Ser Dontos? What’s with the hair net for Sansa? And there is that city again, Asshai!

Good question, I have no idea.

165. Okay, I’m pretty sick of Theon, but I think Winterfell just fell into worse hands than his. Was that a surprise that made perfect sense in hindsight?

Yep.

166. Tyrion wasn’t quite an amnesiac, but the milk of the poppy was making him have some strange dreams. Any new revelations there for you?

No.

167. Will Shae still want to be with Tyrion once she sees the extent of his injuries?

I have a sneaky suspicion that she won't but at the same time he seems to have lost a bit of power and that may make her not happy with him as well.

168. BTW, who do you think found Tyrion down in the cellar?

I did not think about that. Someone that did not want him dead at least.

169. Who do you think assigned Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion? If it was Cersei, and Jaime makes it back to King’s Landing alive, it will sure make for an interesting dialogue to see whose side he takes.

I think it is Cersei, she did seem to be plotting something for awhile now.

170. Methinks Tyrion is in deep poop, and I don’t just mean his injuries. What do you think? How about his father taking over as the Hand?

I think the same thing, if I was him I would be trying to escape and fast.
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Chapter 68(Jon) - Chapter 69(Bran)

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Wow! Martin knows how to write a cliffhanger.

171) Did you expect that Jon would be asked to secretly keep his vows to the Brothers? Were you surprised he had to kill Qhorin? What was that all about? I'm still confused why someone would want to take over the Wall?

I was surprised and I have no idea why they want the wall.

172) What was up with the birds? Are they like the Direwolves?

I thought that when they die they turned into eagles?

173) Thank goodness Bran and Ricken are alive. Anyone else surprised?

I am just happy they are living but now scared that they are being seperated.

174) Where is Arya?

Maybe going to Riverrun?

175) Can they trust Osha? I felt someone else should have gone with her.

I think they can.

176) I wonder how badly damaged Winterfell is? I thought it would be razed to the ground, but they found food and the last description made me wonder if it was as bad as I feared?

I think they will be back one day.

177) Wonderful last lines by Bran in the book:
"The stone is stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either."

Now I really can't wait to start the next book.
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[Erin]

Man oh man its been a while! I hope you are all well and enjoying/ejoyed CoK! I've got a lot of questions to answer so here goes..

Questions for Chapter 12 (Daenerys) - Chapter 15(Thyrion)

(view spoiler)[27. Interesting that the comet came into view when the dragons were born. Daenarys sees this as a sign of where she should take her people. Interesting. Any ideas as to how she'll come to be a contender for the throne? What do you think of the three people brought to her by Jhogo?
I feel like she will fly in on dragon back like the first of her family line, I can't remember his name..Aegon the Conqueror I believe! And I'm not sure that I trust the people brought to her, they seemed far too interested in the dragons.

28. Finally find out more about Ser Jorah. Do you think his feelings for Daenerys will benefit her or prove to be a problem later?
I think his feelings for her could go either way. He may remain loyal to her or become spiteful as she continues to reject him

29. Jon and his "brothers" are finding abandoned and empty towns. Forest void of wild life. Anyone thinking we're going to have an interesting night very soon? Where did everyone go?
I'm definitely worried for Jon and the others. I don't think they all died but are maybe seeking refuge from the Others

30. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. Anyone surprised that Yoren didn't let the soldiers in? Why would they kill everyone including the men in black? Do you think they were after Gendry?
I'm not at all surprised that he refused them like Gendry said they didn't care either way and i think Yoren recognized that and chose to go down swinging. I think they were just blood thirsty and power hungry and it is very likely that they were after Gendry.

31. Do you think Arya will regret helping to free the three men who were shackled in the wagon?
Definitely, there was obviously a reason they were chained.

32. Cersei must really have hated Robert. She keeps killing his bastards. Do you think it's because they might make people think her children weren't his, or did she just hate Robert that much that she wanted to wipe all signs of him from the earth?
I think she had to kill them for several reason. The bastards make it very clear that the children she birthed were not Robert's and that would make Joffrey ineligible for the throne.

33. What do you think of Littlefinger's plan to have Stannis' daughter's paternity come into question?
I think there may be truth in his story given the fact that Littlefinger is a bit of a snake.

34. What did you think of the secret passage? I had no idea what Tyrion was up to.
I think Tyrion is smart for being cautious but i don't trust Varys much (hide spoiler)]

[Erin]

Questions for Chapters 16 (Bran) - Chapter 19 (Arya)

(view spoiler)[35) Thought it was fun that Bran tried to do a little matchmaking between Ser Roderick and Lady Hornwood. He has so much to learn about the way of things. His dream this time recounted what happened to him when he was injured. Do you think he finally remembers everything? Do you think if it's ever revealed what happened that Jaime's fate will change? Any thoughts on what his punishment should be?
Bran is a sweetheart. i think he will eventually remember everything and that it may be a game changer. I'm not sure how Jaime would be punished I think it depends on who sits on the Iron Throne, or the position of the war when Bran remembers

36) What medicine/potion do you think Tyrion took from Varys?
Possibly the one used on Jon Arryn?

37) We now know that Tyrion is the one who sent men to look for Arya. What do you think of all the plans he's putting into place?
I think Tyrion is smart but I don't believe he has Cersei's interests in mind.

38)Do you think Sansa is wise to team up with ser Dontos? Does she have any other options?
I don't know that the choice is wise but she is a young girl stuck in an abusive place wanting to go home and I don't think anyone can fault her for that. I do wish you would stop making her decisions based on the songs of old heroes since that path led her to Joff.

39) The hound makes me nervous when he's around Sansa. Anyone else feeling this way?
I love the hound and it seems to me that he has a slight soft spot for Sansa. Although his emotions are erratic so I understand the fear.

40)Gah! Arya just can't seem to get a break. Every time I think things have gotten really bad they get worse. Anyone else worried here?
I'm really sad that she lost Needle! I'm worried but I think Arya will be okay in the end.

41) I'm really starting to like Gendry. I like how he called Arya on being a girl. He was funny when he found out she was a lady. Any thoughts/opinions on Gendry?
Love him! (side note: if anyone watches the tv show he's from skins so I thought that was cool) (hide spoiler)]

[Erin]

Chapter 20 (Tyrion) - Chapter 23 (Jon)

(view spoiler)[42. I wish Tyrion could be king. He knows exactly what to do in situations and this chapter gives more evidence of this. Did you know who the "informer" was immediately when Cersei mentioned Myrcella? Did you feel sad for Cersei at all when she began to cry and Tyrion tried to comfort her? I felt more for Tyrion. It seems like he has much to give , but his family just doesn't see it.
I'm not totally sure who the informer is. I can't remember if he told Littlefinger or not but if he did it's likely him. I didn't feel sorry for Cersei at all she has no problem using people and its about time she's on the other end.

43. What was your first impression of Jojen & Meera? What did you think of the oath they gave, do you think it had any real meaning or just words they memorized?
I don't trust them it seems odd that they went to the direwolves without Bran. Despite this I think their vow may have been substantial given their father's loyalty to Ned.

44. Why do you think Jojen wants to see the direwolves so much? Do you think his sister has the same kind of connection with the direwolves? Do you think Bran, Jojen and the wolves are all connected?
Jojen did seem connected to them but it seems like he has that ability with all animals so maybe he will help Bran understand what is happening. Maybe he wanted to see the wolves because he sensed the connection between Summer and Bran

45. What was your first impression when Catelyn approach Lord Renly's little "party"? Her thoughts pretty much summed it up for me: "They are boys drunk on song and story..."
I think Renly is an idiot. He could be a great king but is not taking this war seriously enough. I imagine Stannis will make him aware of the danger and seriousness of war though (nicely or not).

46. What do you think of Brienne? Will she play an important role in the story? Do you feel the tiniest bit sorry for her? Her character reminds me a little bit of "Jane" from the HBO show Deadwood. Real tough on the outside, but there's something about her that makes me feel sad for her.
I like Brienne although she seems snooty I love that there is a woman involved in the actual fighting of the war. I feel very sad for her to be honest it seems that she is only confident with herself when her armour is on. Also I think she may have a thing for Renly (idk if im incorrect in that guess though)

47. "King is only a word, but fealty, loyalty, service..those I must have" Should Robb join Renly? I don't think Renly had any of those for his brother, so I think it's funny he's asking that of Robb.
I think it would be a wise move for Robb to join with someone but after meeting Renly I'm not sure he is the right choice anymore.

48. What is up with all the incest in the book. Craster makes me sick. I cringed when he said "I'm a godly man, and the Gods keep me safe.." Do you think Sam did the right think sending Gilly to Jon? Do you think Jon should have done something for Gilly?
I hate Craster! I think Sam did the best he could and had the right intentions but I don;t think Jon could have helped her. The Old Bear was right when he said some people need to be their own help.

49. Who do you think the Cold Gods, white shadows are? Do you think they eat the children Craster gives them or raises them?
I think the Cold Gods are the Wrights. Its hard to tell if they eat them or not because we don't know how sentient they are or what their aim is (if they have any). They could eat them or use them to build their ranks.

50. I'm getting a bad feeling about Sam. Anyone else think something bad is gonna happen to him?
Sam worries me a lot but he does seem to become braver as they carry on so maybe he will be alright in the end (hide spoiler)]

[Teresa]

Trying to catch up as well. Such a busy month.

Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 36 (Tyrion) – Chapter 39 (Catelyn)

(view spoiler)[76. Margaery Tyrell as King Joffrey’s queen? (She’s technically his aunt. Ugh, still with the incest theme.) Now how are they going to negotiate that when she is so recently a widow? Where does that leave Sansa’s fate?
I think Sansa will be much better off in the long run. And at least she is an aunt by marriage only. Margaery seems to be a very meek character from what we have seen so far, which may account for Tyrion’s choice in marrying them. In the overall game of throwns, Joffrey would be much more dangerous if paired with a strong woman that wanted to be queen.

77. Is Cersei in denial about her son’s sexual appetite?
I think that she is seeing an idealized version of her son, which I would expect from any mother, and Cersei in particular.

78. Are you thinking like Tyrion and wondering at Cersei’s sudden affection, and the implications of what she could be up to? Or do you think she is a) attracted to Tyrion’s handling of power; or b) becoming fond of him.
I think she is affectionate toward him only in Jaime’s absence. On Jaime’s return, she will chuck him to the side again. Sadly, I think if Jaime does not survive, she will also chuck Tyrion to the side and take on another champion.

79. Obviously Eddard Stark left his mark on what little conscience Theon has, as he has to suppress it. Think this will keep happening?
I am really a fan of how Martin builds characters in the shades of grey. Even though I think Theon is weak-minded and driven by fantasies of adulation and power, there will like persist a hint of not pure evil in him.

80. What deed do you believe Theon wants to accomplish so as to prove himself to his father and insure his name in songs?
I am afraid he will set his sights on Winterfell. What better way to show loyalty to his father and demand the respect of the Starks who viewed him as an outsider.

81. Will Arya/Weasel finally come across a message that will be of use to her side?
I think martin positioned her purposefully. She will stop being a mouse altogether at some point.

82. Yet another “prayer-wish” wasted; do you think Arya/Weasel will be so frivolous with the last one?
I don’t know that they have been wasted so far. She is certainly using them as a 9 year old would, but she may be better positioned to escape now. And, if she told him to kill Tyrell first, isn’t there a good chance he would be unable to accomplish it and even be killed in the process?

83. Do you think Catelyn has become wiser after all her travels and travails? Do you like her more or less than you did at the beginning of this saga?
I agree with many about her treatment of Jon, and her flighty nature in the first book, but like her better now. She seems to be the voice of reason in this book. I think she ultimately shared much of Eddard’s worldview, but was more focused on keeping her family (particularly her children) safe. I think she provides and interesting insight into the difficulties posed to women in this situation.

84. Were you surprised Brienne of Tarth pledged her sword and service to Catelyn?
I was. An interesting twist to suddenly have the women gathering loyal fighting forces around them.

85. Do you think King Robb “mind-melded” with Grey Wolf in order to sneak into Stafford Lannister’s holdings? Do you think he fed Lannister’s heart to his direwolf? Or possible remained “mind-melded” to Grey Wolf while he ate it himself?
I think this goes back to the connection between the Starks and the wolves. While Bran’s “gifts” may rise to a higher level, I suspect they all will have the ability to connect in some way. I think he was along for the ride, but may not have been controlling his direwolf so much as the direwolf was accommodating him, if that makes sense.

86. Now, if I’ve got this right, in order for Edmure Tully’s plan to work, he will take even more men from Winterfell. Comments.
I think Winterfell is vulnerable to attacks from Dany, Theon, and the north. So, bad idea.

87. Who is “that stripling…wretched boy…” that Lord Hoster Tully, Catelyn’s father, spoke of when he thought she was Lysa? Will there be a second chance for that relationship now that Lady Lysa Arreyn is an eligible widow?
So curious.

88. Will Lord Eddard Stark’s bones make it back to Winterfell to be safely entombed?
I am just saying no because they are trying to move the bones in the Fire and Ice series and nothing happens so simply… (hide spoiler)]

[Teresa]

Questions for Chapter 40 (Daenerys) - Chapter 43 (Jon)


(view spoiler)[89. Thoughts on Xaro's proposal? Think Ser Jorah is right about why he wants to wed Daenerys or is there more to it? The boys around him do seem to give Ser Jorah's theory validity.
I think Ser Jorah has it right.

90. What did you think of the warning that Daenerys should leave the city?
She can be very blunt in her determination and this may get her in trouble in the city.

91. Do you think it wise to send Myrcella away? Could she be safer or heading to her death?
I think it makes sense to send her away, but will not be shocked if shenanigans ensue.

92. The Lannisters are definitely not loved. I just about died laughing when someone screamed Brotherf@cker. I don't know why but I just found that hilarious. Do I have a warped sense of humor or did anyone else find this funny?
I was listening to this portion on a book on tape. Even funnier!

93. Was saddened that the girl was raped, but happy Sansa came out of it okay. Thoughts of Tyrions attack on his nephew? I just kept trying to picture the height difference. A thirteen year old boy can be quite tall.
I think Tyrion just finally lost all patients with Joffrey. There has been a theme through these books where a small action has great consequences, and here Joffrey certainly brought about many consequences that Tyrion was trying to avoid.

94. Tyrion seemed quite upset that people were blaming him for everything when he was trying to fix things. Do you think he may have his nephew assassinated?
I was a little surprised because Tyrion generally does not seem to care all that much what others think of him. Perhaps it was the doubting of his cleverness? I think Joffrey would tempt anyone to hire an assassin, but I don’t think Tyrion will go through with it.

95. Did I miss something? What are the chains Tyrion is having made for? They mentioned them at some point for a second time and I'm clueless.
If Martin has told us what the chains are, I missed it as well.

96. Anyone else kind of grossed out by the shadow baby birth? WTH was that? Must admit I did like the argument about good, evil, and gray.
So, that was disturbing. I have to agree with Davos that everyone (ha – particularly in this book – are gray. Millisant is trying to cast everyone as black or white to force unconditional obedience. The onion story does not apply to people, but if she can frame any disagreement this way, she can keep everyone in her control.

97. Do you think Davos will be allowed to live after what he saw?
I admit that I checked to see if he has other chapters. I really like his character, so I am holding out hope for him. The question will then be whether he tells Stanis.

98. Any thoughts on Renly's peach speach? lol It rhymed.
I thought this captured the relationship of the brothers well. Even though they were separated over many years, they still had an entirely brotherly exchange.

99. Should Jon stay or should he go? His wolf didn't seem to like where he was do you think that is a sign?
I think he should go. His direwolf is uneasy and it is better to just go and find out what is going on.

100. Was anyone else worried that the Others were coming? What do you make of the attack?
I still they are coming, slowly but surely.

101. Do you think the horn may be used to call something that will help defeat the others? Maybe the children of the forest? I think that was what they were called.
Or perhaps it will repel the others? I am hoping Sam messes around with it and fixes it! (hide spoiler)]

[Mirliz]

Chapter 64-67

(view spoiler)[158. It sure seems as if Harrenhal is unlucky for those who rule there. I can’t really blame Arya for wanting out of that place. Think it is haunted, or jinked, or something? What does this foretell for Littlefinger? (If he ever gets to own it.)

I'm not usually inclined to believe in curses or whatever, but seeing what exists in that world, Harrenhal might well be cursed. In that case, it will most likely mean bad luck for Littlefinger as well.

159. Did you ache just a little for Arya when she grieved for her brothers? Do you think that was really Lord Stark, Arya’s father, talking to her in the godswood?

Of course I did. I'm very fond of Arya. And I like to believe that was really her father talking to her.

160. Is Arya going to be a “skinchanger” like Bran? Will all the Stark children be able to do this?

Not sure.

161. Gendry and Hot Pie seemed pretty unhappy with Arya; were you surprised they went with her? Clever Arya, taking those maps; think they’ll come in handy for something other than finding her way to a safe place? BTW, will she really go to Riverrun?

I was a little surprised they went with her, but happy.

162. Did you think Arya had it in her to kill that guard? Think the coin had anything to do with it?

Yes, I thought so. And I don't believe the coin had anything to do with it. She is a strong girl.

163. Was King Joffrey’s whole wimpy “Mother!” court scene too, too pathetic, or what? At least Sansa’s has a sense of humor. Nevertheless, what ever will they do with her now?

I'm a little afraid for her. I still don't like her very much, but I do feel for her, now that she has had to wake up from her world of dreams and realized what the real world is like.

164. Okay, just who is Ser Dontos? What’s with the hair net for Sansa? And there is that city again, Asshai!

No idea.

165. Okay, I’m pretty sick of Theon, but I think Winterfell just fell into worse hands than his. Was that a surprise that made perfect sense in hindsight?

Yes.

166. Tyrion wasn’t quite an amnesiac, but the milk of the poppy was making him have some strange dreams. Any new revelations there for you?

Not really.

167. Will Shae still want to be with Tyrion once she sees the extent of his injuries?

Not sure.

168. BTW, who do you think found Tyrion down in the cellar?

No idea.

169. Who do you think assigned Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion? If it was Cersei, and Jaime makes it back to King’s Landing alive, it will sure make for an interesting dialogue to see whose side he takes.

That would indeed be interesting.

170. Methinks Tyrion is in deep poop, and I don’t just mean his injuries. What do you think? How about his father taking over as the Hand?

Things don't look good for him. He needs to get to a safe place as soon as possible. Maybe find some new allies? (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 68-69

(view spoiler)[171) Did you expect that Jon would be asked to secretly keep his vows to the Brothers? Were you surprised he had to kill Qhorin? What was that all about? I'm still confused why someone would want to take over the Wall?

I'm also confused why they want to take the Wall. I didn't expect Jon to have to yield and then keep his vows to the Brothers in secret. But I wasn't surprised he had to kill Qhorin.

172) What was up with the birds? Are they like the Direwolves?

Not sure they are like the direwolves - I understood it as if they are reincarnations of some kind?

173) Thank goodness Bran and Ricken are alive. Anyone else surprised?

I'm just relieved. I really like Bran.

174) Where is Arya?

I think she will try to go to Riverrun, since she saw on the map that it wasn't very far.

175) Can they trust Osha? I felt someone else should have gone with her.

I hope they can trust her.

176) I wonder how badly damaged Winterfell is? I thought it would be razed to the ground, but they found food and the last description made me wonder if it was as bad as I feared?

I think it is very damaged, but probably possible to rebuild.

177) Wonderful last lines by Bran in the book:
"The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either."

I also liked those lines. He is a very strong child. He will be alright. (hide spoiler)]

[Teresa]

Questions for Chapter 44 (Tyrion) - Chapter 47(Ayra)


(view spoiler)[102. Cersei didn't like Tyrion attacking her son. Now she's set on getting Tommen to safety. Kind of interesting don't you think>
Yes, I think she is realizing how much power Tyrion has quietly gathered. If he has both her sons in his control, she may be in trouble.

103. Interesting that at one time Tyrion thought of killing his sister, but now sees killing kin a terrible thing.
I think Tyrion must be reluctant to kill his family or surely he would have by now!

104. Do you think there is a connection between the mysterious Jaqen and the guy who took Varys' manhood?
Wow, I had not thought of that at all! I saw a possible connection with the priestess helping Stanis.

105. What a horrible story Vary had to tell. To have that happen at such an early age. Now we know why he's good at changing his appearance.
He has definitely learned how to survive.

106. Do you think Varys and Tyrion have bonded? Can they trust each other?
I don’t think they trust each other, per se. They seem to understand each other’s boundaries and common uses for each other.

107. Do you think Tyrion telling Shae about his wife will come back to bite him in the butt?
I think just the opposite. Even though Tyrion does not believe it, I think Shae is growing to care for him.

108. Does anyone else feel Shae is going to betray him in a major way?
I vote against this! But, I suppose it would not be unlike Martin to move the characters in this way.

109. Now Catelyn must wonder what happened to Ayra. She definitely has much to fear.
Particularly because she would not know of her training to be a water dancer. So she would have no reason to think she could survive on her own.

110. Looks like the green dream is going to come true. Now we know what Theon was up to. Anyone surprised? Do you think his father will be happy?
I don’t think his father will be happy that he acted on his own. Most likely, there is a bigger plan at play and Theon may be upsetting the balance of it by grabbing for glory.

111. Okay, I have to say I like Jaqen, but now Ayra owes him a death? That is what he meant right? He would have taken her with him? Any thought on Jaqen?
I think he was saying that they are even. I ended up liking him well enough because he seemed to respect Arya. And I like that she has someone in her corner to call on if need be. Just not sure she should do so unless she really needs it.

112. Do you think it was wise of Arya to not reveal her identity?
Yes. I think that for now, she is best hidden.

113. What happened to Littlefinger? Do you think it was wrong of Tyrion to give him the documents he did with the seal? Could he misuse them?
I think Littlefinger is planning to get a great advantage out of the situation or he would never have placed himself in danger. And anything he wants, I would not give him for that reason. (hide spoiler)]
 

[Teresa]

Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 48 (Daenerys) – Chapter 51 (Jon)


(view spoiler)[114. What is significant in the name “House of the Undying Ones”? Why does Xaro Xhoam Daxos refer to it as the “Palace of Dust”? What do we know really about Pyat Pree, other than he’s a warlock? And why in H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks did Dany go in there? Good gravy beans! At least she had Drogon with her. Whew!
I think it is a house of spirits. And she better get something good for going in there!

115. Was Dany seeing the past, the future, or both? Did anyone else feel inclined to bookmark pages 705-706 to see if they will come true?
• three fires must you light... (life, death, love)
• Three mounts must you ride... (to bed, to dread, to love)
• Three treasons will you know... (blood, gold, love)
Ahhh… There are three of them; has any part of them already come true?
I think it was a mix of past and future. I think on the fires she must light, the life is the dragons. I suspect Drogo was the mount she had to ride to bed. And the blood treason may have been her brother selling her off for a promise of an army.

116. Okay, I’m lost. Where is Tyrion sending Shagga and his clansmen off to? The kingswood? Why?
This completely confused me. And he seemed to believe it was a bad idea even as he was doing it.

117. Is it just me, or is Tyrion having a bit of personality change? Where are all his funny quips? Now they seem bitter.
I don’t think he is enjoying his role in the politics as much as he was at first.

118. Though he tries to shrug it off, it seems as if Tyrion respected Winterfell and a part of him is sad to see its fall out of Stark hands. Does this bode well for any Starks in the future?
I think he understood the Starks connection to that place and believes a Stark should be lord of Winterfell. I agree. I can’t imagine Theon holding the north line against the zombies.

119. “Ser Osmund is as loyal as he is brave…” Queen Regent Cersei told King Joffrey, and internally, Tyrion agreed. But doesn’t Osmund’s disloyalty work both ways? Could this come back to bite Tyrion in the butt?
I think this is true of all those engaging in politics at the highest level. They have to watch out for themselves amidst ever-changing royal lines.

120. Hallyne the Pyromancer – does anyone else think he could be someone else in disguise? He did ask about the proximity of any dragons to explain the increase in wildfire…
I think this was just a recognition that magic is coming back into the world with the dragons.

121. Speaking of dragons, how come no one (seemly) in the Seven Kingdoms knows Dany has three dragons now? I would have expected this news to spread far and wide. (Her pregnancy sure did!)
That is a good point. You would think with all the recognition she is getting across the sea, more people would be spying on her.

122. Do you think any (or all) of the castle folk of Winterfell helped Bran, Rickon, and the rest escape or were they just as astonished as Theon? Will Theon ever have the loyalty of the people of Winterfell or is he doomed in this regard?
I think he will have to hold Winterfell for a long time and against foes before anyone will be loyal to him over a Stark. I don’t think Bran and the others would have involved the castle folk and put them in harms way.

123. Were you pretty sure Osha would help Bran and Rickon, even after pledging to Theon, or did it come as a complete surprise?
I was pretty sure Osha was going just pledging loyalty to keep a position close enough to help.

124. How did Bran, Rickon and the others elude Theon? Where are they anyway?
I think Bran communicated with the direwolves and had them split off to lead them astray. I don’t think they have gotten far and certainly hope Theon does not actually know where they are. I have several chapters to get through before getting back to Theon to see if Bran is safe!

125. Was there any truth to Ygritte’s tale of Bael/Sygerrik and Brandon the Daughterless? Or did she just know the right button to push?
I think it is a mix.

126. Were you pleased that Jon Snow showed compassion with Ygritte? Will this be detrimental or fortuitous in the future?
I am glad to see him show mercy. Overall, this tends to come back and help in the future, as it did with Arya. (hide spoiler)]

[Renee]

I just got back from holidays. I managed to finish the book today but couldn't keep up with the questions as I can't read spoilers on my phone. I'm going to be lazy and not answer them now. But I will say that I loved the book. It was a reread for me, but this is as far as I got the first time, so i'm looking forward to reading the next one in February. See you all on the next thread...

[Teresa]

Questions for Chapter 52 (Sansa) through Chapter 55 (Catelyn)


(view spoiler)[127. Do you see a way out for Sansa? I get the impression Dontos doesn’t really have a plan, even though he keeps reassuring her.
He does not seem to be a reliable way out. Although, I don’t see what else he can do as the city gets locked down for an anticipated battle.

128. What do you think about Sansa’s interaction with the Hound? For all his ferocity, I don’t think he would seriously hurt her. Then again, do you think he would if Joffrey commanded it?
I agree that he has a soft spot for Sansa. I think even if Joffrey ordered it, he would find a way to soften the blow.

129. Do you think that Cersei no longer expects Sansa to marry Joffrey? It sounds to me like she is almost resigned to Stannis winning the war. Does anyone else find it weird that Jaime was determined to be with Cersei in her birthing room? It felt like she was practically admitting an unnatural relationship with her twin.
This was a strange conversation. I also thought she was involved in the discussions of having Joffrey marry someone else, so perhaps that is all she is reacting to? But, she seemed pretty open about Jaime, especially given the rumors circulating.

130. Did you think Jon would be “in trouble” for letting the Wildling go free? I was relieved at Qhorin’s response.
I was relieved as well. I didn’t think he would be in big trouble, but didn’t think they would appreciate it either.

131. Another mind-meld here, Jon and Ghost? The weirwood he sees has his brother’s face with three eyes. When he senses death, did you think at this point that Bran might be dead? I did! Do you think Ghost will heal?
I totally though Bran was dead – particularly based on how we left him. I certainly hope Ghost will live. He seemed to be getting stronger, but they now have a long way to travel.

132. Many times in this novel we learn of events after they’ve already happened. As the mother of a 4-year-old boy and a 7-year-old girl, I had to put down my Nook in disgust when I learned that Bran and Rickon had been murdered by Theon. Did you feel rage toward Theon and the author? I sure did! Tyrion seems more upset than Cersei, who I felt was pretty blasé about it.
I also had to keep the hope that the news was false to continue reading without complete outrange. The last chapter is Bran’s, so is this ghost Bran? Perhaps “Direwolf Bran”? Is Bran really dead??
I also looked forward to see if there was a Bran chapter and saw there was. But, I am worried that simply means he will be communicating through death as the weirwood still. I am very upset at Theon killing them. And what of the others that were with them. Surely, they did not just run away, so are they all dead also?

133. Did you know the “little whore” that Cersei had taken was not really Shae? Do you believe Tyrion will make good on his promise to hurt Cersei?
I was fooled and thought it was Shae. At least Tyrion is protective of her anyway. And he will most definitely take revenge against Cersei later, just don’t know how.

134. How in the world is Catelyn able to keep the news about Bran and Rickon to herself? (Here is another theory of mine: Bran/Rickon changed clothes with Jojen and Meera, and that is who was actually murdered! Ages don’t match, but still…. I am in complete denial here.)
I can understand her thought that saying it out loud would make it true. I am in denial as well.

135. Were you surprised Jaime admitted to throwing Bran off the tower? I was, especially considering he’s chained and helpless.
I think he is not the type to deny his evil deeds, even when at a disadvantage.

136. So… who sent the assassin after Bran with the knife?? Will we ever find out?
I think it was Littlefinger. It was all to his advantage.

137. Ooooooh, what will Catelyn do with Brienne’s sword?
Right? I don’t think she will kill him because it would put the girls in trouble. However, I wonder if she would actually set him free if he would ultimately end up killing those responsible for the deaths in her family? (hide spoiler)]

[Teresa]

Still fighting to catch up!


Questions for Chapter 56 (Theon) – Chapter 59 (Tyrion)

(view spoiler)[138. “They gave me no choice.” That seems to be Theon’s mantra. Are you in agreement? I kept remembering him kicking that severed head around like a ball at the beginning of A Game of Thrones in comparison to (finally) beheading Farlen. He’s finding the “glory” of being Prince of Winterfell is in reality more “gory” than his conscience can handle. Are you feeling any sympathy for him?
I really don’t. He has had many choices.

139. Who do you like better by the end of chapter 56, Theon, or his sister, Asha?
Asha. She is at least honest in her desires and seems to be fighting for her people as well as herself.

SPOILER QUESTION COMING!

140. Where you surprised Theon had not killed Bran and Rickon? What are his reasonings for letting everyone think they are dead? Is compassion any part of them?
Shocked. I wonder if they got away and he just couldn’t have everyone believe that?

141. When she is with King Joffrey, do you love Sansa’s internal dialogue as much as me?
I do. I am finally starting to like her.

142. The coming battle seems to have extinguished the “mob” mentality. When Sansa was among the singing crowd of the sept, were you at all afraid for her?
I am very worried for Sansa. She is in the worst position from every angle.

143. The Queen Regent Cersei (who dressed for the occasion) told Sansa that Ser Ilyn is there for protection. Is this really the case, or is he there to behead someone else? Sansa’s would prefer the Hound to protect her. Comments?
I think she is right that the Hound would protect her more readily.

144. Besides the obvious “B” word, what is another I’m looking for to describe Queen Regent Cersei’s comments and attitude toward Sansa? Patronizing?
I don’t like Cersei, but she is a worldly woman who had to find her way amongst pretty serious politics, so I think she views Sansa as a little girl – not in a nice way.

145. What were you thoughts on the battle at Blackwater Bay/Kings Landing? Interesting? Were you able to keep all the ships straight and which side they were on?
I was surprisingly able to track them.

146. Finally, we know what Tyrion’s chains were for! (I thought they would keep the ships out of the harbor, not trap them in.) Was this a clever plan?
Very clever plan. He clearly thought of the possibility of this type of attack long ago.

147. After the last time, I was surprised to see Davos still alive for this chapter (I’ve quit looking for chapter names for a while). Think he’ll survive this one? Will the resourceful old pirate, Salladhor Saan, and his proud Valyrian, save Davos?
Hope so. I really like this character. For his sake, I also hope that his sons survive.

148. “Mother promised I could have the Whores.” Were you remembering the little piss ant King Joffrey, the rabbits, and his new crossbow when he made this sulking statement?
I was just thinking Yick! He is just Yick.

149. Were you surprised at Sandor Clegane's refusal to return to battle? What about Tyrion; were you impressed? Did he have any other choice? Will he be successful?
I was surprised at his refusal, but can’t blame him given all the fire. This will make him a free agent of sorts. Could be good for Sansa? I was glad to see Tyrion step in, but was not surprised. I think he will be successful. (hide spoiler)]

[Teresa]

Questions for Chapter 60 (Sansa) - Chapter 63 (Daenerys)

(view spoiler)[150. Well, we get a glimpse at what makes Cersei tick and it ain't pretty. Why was she giving Sansa all that advice if she knew she'd never be queen?
I don’t think it was advise so much as explanation of her own motivations. Sansa is a sounding board at this point.

151. Do you think Tyrion will survive and, if so, in what shape? The story would be so boring without him.
I also hope he survives. I look forward to his chapters. I think he will ultimately survive in good shape.

152. Should Sansa have gone with the Hound?
He was not in great shape at that point, and may have been dangerous for her in his own way. Although he was probably her best bet to get out of the City.

153. Why do I get the feeling Sansa should stay away from Ser Dontos.
I agree. He may not mean to betray her, but he is also not strong enough to protect her I don’t think.

154. Do you believe Stannis is dead and do you believe that both Cersei and Joffrey survived? It sounded like she was about to kill herself. I just can't see this as the end to Cersei, Joffrey, and Sansa. What would be left to the story?
I had the same thought that Cersei was committing suicide, but think she would make sure they had lost first.

155. Where the heck is Robb? Is he dead?
He has been largely absent, but I think only because his bit of the story is not important right now.

156. Daenerys looks to be in prime position to take over her rightful place as Queen. What do you think?
With this much chaos, you would thinks she has her best shot.

157. Darn! I was hoping to know what the Song of Ice and Fire was. Could it mean a uniting of Robb (ice) with Daenerys (fire)?
Interesting. Or the dance where they fight each other. Or ice is the winter coming from the north and fire is the kingdom of the dragon? (hide spoiler)]

[Amanda]

I am loving this book so far. The characters are so complex!
I haven't taken the time to answer the questions yet. I think I'll use tomorrow to catch up on all my buddy read discussions.

[Teresa]

Questions for Chapter 64 (Arya) – Chapter 67 (Tyrion)

(view spoiler)[158. It sure seems as if Harrenhal is unlucky for those who rule there. I can’t really blame Arya for wanting out of that place. Think it is haunted, or jinked, or something? What does this foretell for Littlefinger? (If he ever gets to own it.)
Ha – Littlefinger may get what he deserves after all.

159. Did you ache just a little for Arya when she grieved for her brothers? Do you think that was really Lord Stark, Arya’s father, talking to her in the godswood?
I wonder if it was really Bran talking to her as he did Jon.

160. Is Arya going to be a “skinchanger” like Bran? Will all the Stark children be able to do this?
I think they all can, but don’t know if they will. Also, will Sansa be able to commune with her siblings’ wolves?

161. Gendry and Hot Pie seemed pretty unhappy with Arya; were you surprised they went with her? Clever Arya, taking those maps; think they’ll come in handy for something other than finding her way to a safe place? BTW, will she really go to Riverun?
I was surprised, although she is clever enough to make it happen. I suspect the maps will end up being important for something else.

162. Did you think Arya had it in her to kill that guard? Think the coin had anything to do with it?
She has gotten harder as the story goes on. So, I think she is ready to do what she needs to survive.

163. Was King Joffrey’s whole wimpy “Mother!” court scene too, too pathetic, or what? At least Sansa’s has a sense of humor. Nevertheless, what ever will they do with her now?
He is pathetic! At least they need to keep Sansa safe for Jaime for now.

164. Okay, just who is Ser Dontos? What’s with the hair net for Sansa? And there is that city again, Asshai!
I am lost on this one.

165. Okay, I’m pretty sick of Theon, but I think Winterfell just fell into worse hands than his. Was that a surprise that made perfect sense in hindsight?
Yes – and I think he will hold it better, unfortunately.

166. Tyrion wasn’t quite an amnesiac, but the milk of the poppy was making him have some strange dreams. Any new revelations there for you?
Actually, I was surprised by how close he seemed to be to his first wife. I guess that I thought of the relationship as short, and that he was grabbing on in puppy love and it was quickly over. So, now I wonder what became of her…

167. Will Shae still want to be with Tyrion once she sees the extent of his injuries?
I hope so. We will at least know now what her feeling for him are, if any.

168. BTW, who do you think found Tyrion down in the cellar?
I wonder if Varys sent someone out looking. Or perhaps his squire? I think Cersei may have something to do with him being in the cellar, so don’t think she would go looking.

169. Who do you think assigned Ser Mandon to kill Tyrion? If it was Cersei, and Jaime makes it back to King’s Landing alive, it will sure make for an interesting dialogue to see whose side he takes.
I think it was Cersei. She decided Tyrion was a threat to her sons and I think she would kill him for that. It will put Jaime in an awkward position, but he will likely side against killing Tyrion.

170. Methinks Tyrion is in deep poop, and I don’t just mean his injuries. What do you think? How about his father taking over as the Hand?
His position has certainly not gotten any better. But, I have faith that his cleverness will help him in the end. (hide spoiler)]

[Teresa]

Here are the last of the questions. I really enjoyed this second book. It kept my interest as well as, if not more, than the first book. Can't wait to dive into the third book.

Questions Chapter 68(Jon) - Chapter 69(Bran)

(view spoiler)[Wow! Martin knows how to write a cliffhanger.

171) Did you expect that Jon would be asked to secretly keep his vows to the Brothers? Were you surprised he had to kill Qhorin? What was that all about? I'm still confused why someone would want to take over the Wall?
I think the plan is wise and expected Qhorin would have to die to make it believable that Jon had turned, one way or the other. I don’t think they intend to stop at the wall. Unless the Wildings are concerned about the winter and the others as well and want to take a stronger hold south of them.

172) What was up with the birds? Are they like the Direwolves?
I suspect that they are, but for the wildings. Hmmm. Wonder if Bran will able to communicate with them.

173) Thank goodness Bran and Ricken are alive. Anyone else surprised?
I was surprised and thrilled

174) Where is Arya?
I don’t think we know yet. On a journey to somewhere.

175) Can they trust Osha? I felt someone else should have gone with her.
I hope so. Don’t know if they had much of a choice.

176) I wonder how badly damaged Winterfell is? I thought it would be razed to the ground, but they found food and the last description made me wonder if it was as bad as I feared?
I think there was enough there to rebuild if they chose to some day…

177) Wonderful last lines by Bran in the book:
"The stone is stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either."
I thought so to. Shows the resiliency of the Stark line. (hide spoiler)]
 

[Samantha]

Im about halfway into the book and kind of lost on theon's part. anyone else have that issue?

[Teresa]

Samantha wrote: "Im about halfway into the book and kind of lost on theon's part. anyone else have that issue?"

I had some issues with that as well. I think it was the sudden introduction of a whole new cast of characters. For some reason, I am also not picturing where his home land is in relation to the seven kingdoms, so it was harder to track where he was all the time. But, by the end of the book, it became clear enough, so it is worth just forging ahead on his sections. Enjoy the second have of the book!

[Amanda]

I finished A Clash Of Kings last night. I am so constantly surprised and in awe of Martin's writing and his complex plots. I actually just went out and bought the first two seasons of the tv show because I love the books so much.

I think this book is better than the first, and that's a hard book to top.

I'll do the questions later today. Chores await.

[Amanda]

Samantha wrote: "Im about halfway into the book and kind of lost on theon's part. anyone else have that issue?"

It was odd to me at first, especially because I've never liked Theon and I didn't want to be in his head more than necessary.
But there is definitely a reason for it. You'll be surprised :).

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

This thread has been moved from the "Featured Series Reads" folder to the "Authors: M - P" folder.

Any hyperlinks you've made should still work after the thread is moved to its respective Author's folder.

[Samantha]

Teresa wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Im about halfway into the book and kind of lost on theon's part. anyone else have that issue?"

I had some issues with that as well. I think it was the sudden introduction of a wh..."

Yea I think that may be what it is. i had to actually do a google search of Westeros to get a better understanding lol!

[Samantha]

Amanda wrote:
It was odd to me at first, especially because I've never liked Theon and I didn't wa..."

Theon is definitely one of my least favorite characters! I still can't wait to see what happens! :)

[Moderators of NBRC, Challenger-in-Chief]

Buddy Read Revisit November 19th



A Clash of Kings, by George R.R. Martin

Time is out of joint. The summer of peace and plenty, ten years long, is drawing to a close, and the harsh, chill winter approaches like an angry beast. Two great leaders—Lord Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon—who held sway over an age of enforced peace are dead...victims of royal treachery. Now, from the ancient citadel of Dragonstone to the forbidding shores of Winterfell, chaos reigns, as pretenders to the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms prepare to stake their claims through tempest, turmoil, and war.

As a prophecy of doom cuts across the sky—a comet the color of blood and flame—six factions struggle for control of a divided land. Eddard’s son Robb has declared himself King in the North. In the south, Joffrey, the heir apparent, rules in name only, victim of the scheming courtiers who teem over King’s Landing. Robert’s two brothers each seek their own dominion, while a disfavored house turns once more to conquest. And a continent away, an exiled queen, the Mother of Dragons, risks everything to lead her precious brood across a hard hot desert to win back the crown that is rightfully hers.

A Clash of Kings transports us into a magnificent, forgotten land of revelry and revenge, wizardry and wartime. It is a tale in which maidens cavort with madmen, brother plots against brother, and the dead rise to walk in the night. Here a princess masquerades as an orphan boy; a knight of the mind prepares a poison for a treacherous sorceress; and wild men descend from the Mountains of the Moon to ravage the countryside.

Against a backdrop of incest and fratricide, alchemy and murder, the price of glory may be measured in blood. And the spoils of victory may just go to the men and women possessed of the coldest steel...and the coldest hearts. For when rulers clash, all of the land feels the tremors.

Audacious, inventive, brilliantly imagined, A Clash of Kings is a novel of dazzling beauty and boundless enchantment—a tale of pure excitement you will never forget.

[Greta]

Thanks, MODS!!

[[deleted user]]

Thank you :)

[RachelvlehcaR]

This is a great book. My favorite so far is Book 3, A Storm of Swords. I'm currently on the Book 4, A Feast for Crows. I'm finally ahead of the HBO series. :) Yay!

[James]

Thank you mods. I will happy to do this as a Buddy read and it would be nice to get this book over with some buddies.

[[deleted user]]

James wrote: "Thank you mods. I will happy to do this as a Buddy read and it would be nice to get this book over with some buddies."

I concur lol I have been trying to get this book from the library forever and have just gotten it. Can't wait to continue through the series. I started enjoying the first book more towards the end, so I'm really glad to move on.

[[deleted user]]

I started this a little early because I know it is going to take me forever to get through. I will put everything in spoilers though. I am through the first part and am pretty far into the third Arya chapter.

(view spoiler)[ I always thought I liked Arya the best, but I was a little biased because I watched the television show before I started reading the books. I think in the books she is definitely fearless, but I realize a lot of her successful escapades rely on luck and meeting the right people at the right time.

Tyrion is also awesome in the television show. But in the book, his complexity is really brought to the forefront. He just doesn't give a flying shit. He accepts his place in this world and uses it so much to his advantage. And he really believes in right and wrong, even if he sometimes consciously does the wrong thing.

I never knew much about Rob from the TV show because they didnd't have enough time to make him complex. In Clash of Kings, you really see how brave he is and how young. He's only 15 when he has to take on a lot of responsibility, and he does it with honor. And he has enough balls to stand up to his mother when he has his own ideas. No matter if they were right or wrong, he needed to have his own agenda, and he really accepted his responsibility fast.

Thought i would also just say that the show does not explain the role of Stanis or Renly as well as they should have. I had no idea what was going on with them or why they thought they had any right to the throne. After reading Game of Thrones though....you almost sort of cheer for Stanis. Even if he's an idiot and being completely manipulated, at least he does have a rightful claim.
(hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Again, gonna kind of blow up the thread while I have time the time to read. So apologies in advance.

(view spoiler)[ I always seem to stop at the Arya sections lol Now at the last Arya section, but am really wanting to talk about Daenarys. She is sooo freakin' young in the book. And I think it's kind of weird how nonchalantly they talk about really old men falling for her. I mean, I get it...I understand the way that world works, and, trust me, I don't really care about morality in fiction lol But it's just a sort of superfluous choice to me. She could have been a little bit older and still be a prodigy. Or, she could have had different relationships with men after the Khal died. I don't know. It's not that I hate it, it's just that I wonder about it, you know? What does it add to the story really? Maybe I'm just not far along to see yet. (Although I do know about the traitorous right-hand man). Still. Just...still.

I liked the Theon chapter. A lot. His family dynamics make so much sense to me. Here he was, trying to make a career for himself, but his family takes it as a slight (even though they sent him to do it anyway). And his sister, who acts 'traditionally' as a man acts, now has the respect he feels he earned instead. I like him and his sister both. Of course his father is an ass, but he's also been slighted here and there throughout his life in a way that has made him incredibly bitter.

The descriptions of castles and architecture are great. My favorite part of the whole series so far.

Also, I have been reading on Tumblr, etc. people making fun of George R.R. Martin's love for describing food. And I can't unsee it. I laugh every time there's a particularly long description of a meal now. Damn you, Internet. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

Taryn I haven't started but this is reread for me so I'll try & respond to your spoilers when I'm not on my phone.

[Greta]

Taryn wrote: "I started this a little early because I know it is going to take me forever to get through. I will put everything in spoilers though. I am through the first part and am pretty far into the third Ar..."

Taryn- (view spoiler)[I do agree that you get a much better picture from the books about Stanis' right to the throne, even though I don't think he'd necessarily be a good king either. (hide spoiler)]

[❤Stephanie ღ♥ღMrs Daryl Dixonღ♥ღ]

Okay, i'm gonna start reading this today and see how I go.

[❤Stephanie ღ♥ღMrs Daryl Dixonღ♥ღ]

I'm sorry, I tried to get into it but I haven't tried to read this book since April and haven't seen the tv series since the beginning of season 3 and as much as I try to get into it I just can't get interested in it. Sorry I don't think i'm gonna continue this series. Sorry Taryn and Greta your gonna have to read it without me.

[Amanda]

Taryn wrote: "Again, gonna kind of blow up the thread while I have time the time to read. So apologies in advance.

I always seem to stop at the Arya sections lol Now at the last Arya section, but am really wa..."

(view spoiler)[
I completely agree about Daenarys being so young. I'm actually very glad that they made the characters older in the tv series, especially Daenarys. I saw the first season of the show before reading the book and I was shocked by how young they all really were.
Maybe Martin made her so young to show the ridiculous weight put on her shoulders? I also think that it shows she is smart but still makes decisions based on a lack of experience.
(hide spoiler)]

I finished this book several months ago. I'm hoping to start A Feast For Crows next month so the discussion is helping me remember some of the details :).

[[deleted user]]

❤Stephanie ღ♥ღMrs Styxx Anaxkolasiღ♥ღ wrote: "I'm sorry, I tried to get into it but I haven't tried to read this book since April and haven't seen the tv series since the beginning of season 3 and as much as I try to get into it I just can't g..."

Lol No problem. I totally get it. I'm listening to it on audiobook, and even though I like it, I can only listen to it for so long before I begin zoning out.

[[deleted user]]

Amanda wrote: "Taryn wrote: "Again, gonna kind of blow up the thread while I have time the time to read. So apologies in advance.

I always seem to stop at the Arya sections lol Now at the last Arya section, bu..."

(view spoiler)[I definitely agree. It was such a shock to read she was around 14-15. I was like whoa, whoa there! I understand that that still takes place in some countries and that especially years ago, it was common. Just took me aback I guess. lol (hide spoiler)]

[jingles]

Taryn, do you all mind if I jump in here with you?

I've been meaning to read this, and just purchased the Kindle edition today because I got tired of waiting on my library hold.

It will take me along time to get through, but I will just post under spoilers and respond to your comments as I go, if that's okay.

[[deleted user]]

Definitely not! I am still struggling through so definitely love to talk about it with more people :)

[Corey]

Great! I had posted in Tower Teams for someone to read this with me, but it seems I missed that the revisit was being revisited again! I am more than happy to discuss this all with you guys, and happy to see others are reading it as well.

(view spoiler)[
Questions for Prologue - Chapter 3 (Tyrion)

1. A little confusing at the beginning. We're introduced to new characters and I was lost as to who they were. Took a while to figure out where they fit in. Anyone else feel the same way?
It took me awhile as well, but I quite enjoyed their story once I realized what was going on, and it was nice to finally hear about Stannis.

2. The comet thought to be Dragon's breath. Comets do tend to symbolize things in literature. I'm guessing it symbolizes the rebirth of the dragons.I'm thinking this is an omen in favor of Daenerys. Anyone else?
I never gave this much thought, I know each of the different leads find significance in the comet for what is going on in their given situation, so I think the comet is significant in different ways, and not just necessarily an omen for Daenerys.

3. First impressions of the red lady, Lady Melisandre?
I didn’t care for her much at all, I think she has some ulterior motives they may not be quite in favor of Stannis.

4, Well, finally we get to meet King Stannis. Initial thoughts? Should he have listened to Cressen?
He seems very stubborn, but I agree with his stance on his birthright, I would be uypset too of getting stuck with Dragonstone over Highgarden, I think it will be a big mistake for him to not listen to Cressen, and it will turn bad for him.

5. Egads! I thought Rhaegar was married! Could he have married Lyanna. Could Jon be their son? Gah!
Never even considered this, so have no thoughts.

6. Thank goodness Arya is okay. I was sooooo worried. I thought maybe the queen had gotten her paws on her since everyone claimed she had both of the Stark girls. What do you think will happen once they get to the wall? Will they send her home? I'm a little confused on this.
I was sure this was covered by the end of Game of Thrones that she made it out just fine, and that is was just a front by the Queen to get Rob into line.

7. Poor Sansa. She's finally gotten it. Poor dear. Any ideas how she'll get out of this fine mess?
She better hope Rob wins out.

8. Still loving Tyrion even though he's a bad guy. Anyone else? Could he be good?
He’s a complex character, I don’t think you could describe him as bad or good, I mean most of this started over the dead of Eddard, and he really had nothing to do with that, he looks for vengeance for his own slights brought on by Catelyn and her sister, and I think he does so rightly, as none of the bad things that have happened in this story really have him at the center of them, but one of his siblings. (hide spoiler)]

[Greta]

Ugh...I got really behind with books. I will read this but slowly!!

[James]

Greta wrote: "Ugh...I got really behind with books. I will read this but slowly!!"
Yeah! I am read this book slowly too Greta and it is has been taking me a while to even get close to finishing the book as well.