On Tyrants & Tributes : Real World Lessons From The Hunger Games discussion
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What theme or issue in The Hunger Games trilogy is most relevant today?
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Dec 09, 2013 01:19PM
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How the politically-connected use media to manipulate the masses, or how they use politics to centrally plan the lives of citizens.
I think that the most relevant theme is how the people struggle against a government that only values them as work horses and not as equal individuals.
Similar to Joshua's comment.... One government, two systems. There is a different set of laws/standards that the capitol(big government and insiders) enjoys compared to the oppressive set of laws/standards the districts(the masses) abide by.
I'd say it's the dichotomy between people who value order and stability at the expense of a few, and people who risk chaos for the betterment of the masses.
I think it would be that they broke everybody into different districts. They separated everybody into classes... The queen bee and the little worker bees.
As Jeffrey said, government manipulation of media. Additionally, there is the larger issue of distracting the masses in order to continue pillaging from the real producers who no longer have a voice that can be heard. Panem (government "freebies" for the voting masses) et circenses (reality shows, sports, consumerism, etc.).
Surveillance, oppressive class system, mass distraction/apathy/insensitivity to others.
Great question! I think the most relevant aspect of the trilogy is that it shows two different sides of the loss-of-liberty equation: those who have had their liberty taken from them through the force and oppression of the state (citizens of the Districts, at the mercy of constant surveillance and policing), and those who have surrendered their liberty to become childlike dependents of the parental state (citizens of the Capitol, easily entertained, manipulated, and led). I think it's significant that characters emerge on both sides to cooperate in the struggle for freedom.
The whole freedom vs. Security issue. It's really interesting to see the two sides.
I would have to say that the most relevant theme of the trilogy is the class system. But in The Hunger games trilogy their is only two classes; The Upper class; The Capitol people, peacekeepers, and the Lower class; The Districts. Also, unlike our government, which takes the tax money paid by the upper and middle class and gives it to the Lower class, in Panem, it is reversed; whereas the District people (the lower class) pay taxes,and whatever the District specializes in; District 1: luxury items, District 6:transportation,District 12:Coal, etc. which all goes to The Capitol, not to mention the immeasurable price of the lives of their children.
The freedom vs. security is an obvious surface issue, but I think what's more important is the nature of revolution.My statist friends who have watched the movies and read the books completely agree that the Panem dystopia is oppressive scarily similar to some of our contemporary realities. They are, just as much as my libertarian friends are, against the Capitol and in favor of tribute-led coupe.
The nature of and motives behind this revolution is where the two political ideologies tend to disagree (and it's partly why we vote the way we do). Do the districts revolt to gain autonomy and freedom? Or do they rebel because of unequal share of money and privileges? Is this a complete rejection of a forceful government, or a necessary restructuring of an unfair system of resource distribution?
The theme that caught my eye most dramatically was that of righteous leadership, that is, why does one person have the right to rule another. This theme is also dominant in Game of Thrones and the recent T.V. series "Revolution". I think that all of these works make clear that some form of leadership and oversight is necessary, the dilemma is who should it be?
I think the books bring up the point that a revolution need not be a seizing of power, but a return to equality as it was. The effort of the revolution was to keep what was theirs by right (labor, livelihood and their children) and not necessarily to impose an oppressive regime of revenge on their former oppressors. Ideally readers would see that the violence only occurred when the districts refused to pay "tribute".
I think that the most revelant themes have already been mentioned, namely security and (vs.) privacy. I'd like to mention another: the corruption of those in power. Is it possible for those at the top to be free from corruption? It it possible for them to rise to their position(s) untarnished by it? Quite a dilemma, as someone naturally must assume the roles of power, lest there be a vacuum (chaos).
The struggle in this series reminds me a lot about the issue that has always been relevant to the U.S. since day one--the powers of individual states versus the powers of the federal government. Are each of the districts' goals after liberation to give their citizens full freedom, or would people like President Snow rise up in each district to fill in the power gap after the Capitol stops asserting control? I feel like this has a lot of similarity with the USSR and its dissolution in certain ways. Similar to Dalmo's point, would the political structures in each of the districts be OK with the Capitol's oppression of their people if the wealth was more evenly distributed, or if the Capitol catered to the upper class of each individual district?
The inequality of the classes and the massive differences between the classes. It's very interesting to see how those issues correspond to issues today.
I would especially argue the surveillance in light of the recent NSA scandals. In addition, the propaganda campaigns put forth in order to ensure that the citizens maintain a blind faith in their rulers (e.g. the softball questions asked during Sunday's 60 Minutes interview with NSA directors). Going to college in West Virginia and seeing how the town of Huntington (where Marshall University is located) has lost the luster it had for several decades is eerily reminiscent of the setting of District Twelve in Appalachia. Poor tax policy has led to the collapse of industry in the region, and its effects are visible.
There is so many aspects from the first movie I can see on how it reflects our society today. Most of the comments here I can agree on. There is some really great ones. The increase of security in the guise of terrorism and how the media can betray it. The author has said I learned she got the idea to write the book from seeing the talk of the wars on the news to flipping the channel to a reality TV show. It is really interesting if you think of it that way and the military industrial complex. People who have joined and went off to the war are young people that can join at 18 and it use to be in the 20's back in the Vietnam days, but that changed. In a way it can be kind of looked at as a sacrifice for the elites of the world of today. Also something I question is genetic engineering of species such as the creatures from the first movie such as the insects, as it has been tried to be done with mosquitoes in the keys by a British company.
For me, the most relevant aspect would have too be the fact that where you come from can have all the difference on how you are treated/perceived. Though I agree with all of the surveillance argument.
Brandon wrote: "There is so many aspects from the first movie I can see on how it reflects our society today. Most of the comments here I can agree on. There is some really great ones. The increase of security in ..."You mentioned something very interesting that I hadn't tought of -- genetic engineering. A very relevant topic for today, in my opinion. Genetic engineering is another way for man to play god.
My first impression? I was surprised of the level of inequality. The elite offering this false hope does not seem far to different from this "American dream." It's also interesting about the relevance of the surveillance state. Constant watch over everyone. I was constantly reminded of what the national surveillance agency could become if the power is unchecked.
i would say in north Korea they use power to keep people from rising against him. like if you say anything bad about there leader your immediate family and next 2 generations are forced to work in a labor camp.
The big government, big economic regulations, lack of freedom and civil repression.
Bread & Circus today is equal to welfare state & media.Governments give us protection and media entertain and manipulate us.
Government overstepping their authority & surveillance.
Amy wrote: "Great question! I think the most relevant aspect of the trilogy is that it shows two different sides of the loss-of-liberty equation: those who have had their liberty taken from them through the fo..."That's a good point about how people emerge on both sides who are sympathetic with the injustice of the situation. Part of what I liked about "Catching Fire" was seeing Effie's transition from a pure ideologue/propagandist of state-sanctioned murder to someone who felt real sympathy for Katniss and Pita.
Nathaniel wrote: "The theme that caught my eye most dramatically was that of righteous leadership, that is, why does one person have the right to rule another. This theme is also dominant in Game of Thrones and the ..."I would have to agree that the callous, heavy-handed, manipulation of people's lives in spite of their individual, hopes and desires by an oppressive government is probably the main theme. I think this theme goes back to a larger discussion of the role of government in our lives and what ultimately we are willing to let it have the the power to do to us to provide for our "wellbeing."
I think the brutality of war and the lasting effect it has, even on the "winners" is very important. Practically everyone has PTSD by the end.
Learn Liberty Academy wrote: "We would love to hear your first impressions about the most important themes in the Hunger Games series!"It's great so far! I like the content!
I am a little confused by the interface, and the program. am I supposed to watch all 36 videos today? and then there are more videos tomorrow? or am I to pace my video watching throughout the week?
Jose wrote: "Bread & Circus today is equal to welfare state & media.Governments give us protection and media entertain and manipulate us."
I agree with you about media - meaningless entertainment and distorted news coverage distract us from what is really important.
However I beg to differ when it comes to welfare. In the books, "panem et circenses" or "Bread and Circuses" refers to the privileged position of those in the Capitol. Because they are well fed and entertained, they don't care about their political responsibilities and they have no desire to change the political or social system. They are completely desensitized to the suffering of the districts.
In contrast the people of the districts do not benefit from the government's bread & circuses. Instead they are the ones being exploited for the entertainment of the rich.
The only help the poor in the districts get from the government is the tessarae, which do not really help, but are just another thing to make the odds worse for their children in the Reaping.
Likewise in today's world, welfare is for the poor. The poor are not the problem. Both the tessarae and welfare keep people from starving. Whatever your opinion of welfare is (needed, not needed, exploited, not enough, etc.) it is not the real issue here.
The real issue, in both today's world and THG, is the system that upholds and reinforces systematic inequality and exploitation of the poor, not the poor themselves. Most people support the system without thinking and don't care about the people it hurts. Just like the well-fed and well-entertained people in the Capitol, the privileged in today's world (which probably includes us) are well-fed and well-entertained, and most do nothing to help fix the system.
That's my opinion, anyway. :)
the most relevant theme seems to be government's intrusion into our everyday life. we are raised to think that we live in a free country, and in many ways we do live in the freest nation of our time. Yet our freedom has been diminishing generation by generation In the hunger games the capital uses force and fear to control the residents of the districts. while at the same time they realize complete control is not possible and so they turn a blind eye to a certain amount of deviation. This allows them to use this illusion of freedom as leverage. We see this when the new peacekeepers are brought in and the "black market" which had been previously tolerated was destroyed. It is also shown when Catnis is allowed to sell game to the peace keepers. When the peacekeepers purchase game from the residents they are acknowledging a "crime" they are pretending does not exist
Our own rapidly increasing number of laws and regulations punishable by more than a year in prison is a parallel. the federal government has admitted to have lost count of how many incarceratable offenses there are. This essentially leaves citizens free only at the mercy of state
we see another similarity–and of how peacekeepers are recruited. We are told that peacekeepers are recruited from district two and that varying financial in social incentives are used to coerce them into taking less desirable assignments
in our own society society were seeing of drastic increase in the number of citizens employeed in so called law enforcement. at one time being a police officer was considered a low-paying job. However many law enforcement personnel now earn six-figure incomes. income above what they would otherwise be able to earn with the same level of education along with pensions is used as leverage to coerce the police into performing tasks they would otherwise object to.
another parallel to our own country is the corruption of media by government. at one time it was considered the duty of the press to scrutinize the government, but we've seen a shift and the media has become the propaganda arm of the administration
in the book it's unclear how aware the media is of their role. Are they so supportive because they are as convinced as the rest of the capital or are they knowingly part of the coercion
In my opinion there are numerous themes that need to be explored when looking at the hunger games trilogy. Most importantly, what occurs when more power is placed with a central government instead of state level governments. It allows for the corruption of those in power, like President Snow, that could not occur on a small governmental scale. The next vitally important theme is that of surveillance verse freedom. Those who say you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide. The Hunger games paints a vivid, scary picture of what could be in store for the United States. That as you give up more freedom via surveillance, more and more laws will be created that criminalize you. To the extent that simply loving the wrong individual can paint a target on your back.
The most important theme is definitely government overreach, most often in the form of lying, or rather bending the truth, and then force-feeding their lies to the citizens. In the first book, the citizens of the Capitol willingly watch the bloodbath of the Hunger Games every year, and they celebrate it like a month long Super Bowl because they're told from childhood that's entertaining. Thus, in the first book, the Capitol citizens are the victims of the government lying while the Districts are enslaved and are fully aware of it (although this seems less apparent with the career tribute districts). The second book is about the government crushing out the sparks of rebellion, so more than the last book the common people are being lied to and told nothing will change, that everything must stay the way it is. In the final book, it goes to a much more personal level, down to specifically Katniss and Peeta. Peeta got brainwashed by the Capitol to believe one of the only friends he had in Panem was a dangerous and he had to kill her, or else bad things would happen. Do as the government says or else bad things will happen. Katniss, on the other hand, is seeing through the rebel movement - how they were bending the truth so as to morally justify their actions, and to prevent what would essentially be a reverse Panem with the citizens of the districts enslaving the Capitol, she takes the drastic step of killing Coin.
The most relevant topic covered in the books? Self-ownership and the perils of every alternative to this ideal.In the Capitol, we see the individual subject to the whims of the political elite. They exist at the mercy of the authority.
In the Districts, we see the individual absolutely overruled to support the designs of wicked men.
In District 13, we see the individual oppressed all the same, differing only in the means of administration. Thus Katniss' reluctance to support the rebellion (on top of all the other stuff she deals with, anyhow).
*SPOILERY FOR BOOK 3 - MOCKINGJAY*For me personally one of the most relevant themes in the THG trilogy is the consequences of violence and war. From the intimate scale of our own lives to the large scale of the violent and devastating actions of our military I think we can see how the lessons of the trilogy can be applied.
First we have the violence of the Games themselves and the Capitol citizens' enjoyment of them.
How often do movies, television, and other media glamorize violence? Too often.
We see the PTSD that Katniss suffers from her trauma in the Games and we understand that violence is not fun, or cool. It is soul-crushing. Katniss' reactions in the Games themselves - to honor Rue, to refuse to kill Peeta and die instead, to choose Allies based on who they are and not based on their fighting abilities - all these serve to provide an alternative to the bloodthirsty precedent that she had been exposed to all her life.
Then going into books 2 and 3 we have the violence and death of the rebellion and resulting war. How does it apply to our our world today? I think the the most upsetting real-life example (that is just like what happens in the books) is the use of double tap drones by the US military. These are the drones that, after an initial bombing, send down more bombs to target those first responders who have come to help the victims of the initial bombing. I think most people who have read book 3 would agree that this is horrifying.
To avoid including a lot of spoilers for book 3 I will just say that the events of Mockingjay forever impacted how I would view the evil of sacrificing innocents for a cause, whether for entertainment or for a military campaign. "Because something is significantly wrong with a creature that sacrifices its children's lives to settle its differences."
Dalmo and Alex both touch on some important topics; the similarities between Panem and the Soviet Union, to name one of stunning relevance.Several people mentioned that Panem is a particularly awful class society, and that is true. The notion of a classless society still has yet to be proved possible (and we anti-utopians insist that every society will include natural differences between people which will manifest in some sorts of distinctions, i.e. we can classify people based upon some distinctions). Yet, the USSR claimed to be a society that was ridding itself of the scourge of class structures.
The only result was a two-class society; (1) the elites and (2) everyone else who served as clay for the elites to shape at will. Not entirely unlike Panem, right?
When the communists took control in Russia, they refused to subject themselves to the scarcity their economic plans imposed upon everyone else. They fought a two-year civil war to suppress popular rebellions in districts like Samara, Tambov, and Yaroslav.
Why did the people rebel? Because the communists were imposing food production quotas on these provinces that HAD to be met, BEFORE anyone from those provinces could have their own share. Often, the quotas imposed exceeded the output those districts could produce en total, thus leaving people starving to death.
During the two-year war only, somewhere between 300,000 and half a million people were killed, deported, or starved to death from this man-made famine.
Sounds a lot like the Dark Days to me...
From The Black Book of Communism, testimony from an eye-witness, "Vladimir Ilich Ulynov [Lenin] had the courage to come out and say openly that famine would have numerous positive results, particularly in the appearance of a new industrial proletariat, which would take over from the bourgeoisie..."
In another paragraph it says, "As an "objective" ally of the regime, hunger was the most powerful weapon imaginable, and it also served as a pretext for the Bolsheviks (Communists) to strike a heavy blow against both the Orthodox Church and the intelligentsia who had risen up against the regime."
Panem's parallels to the Soviet system have been on my mind a lot lately. :)
I think the most important theme in The Hunger Games is distraction. As simple as it is and seemingly not strong enough to be a theme, the more you look at it the more it becomes a theme throughout the books and movies. The Games are held not only to remind the Districts that they are submissive but to distract them from thoughts of uprising, its surprisingly clear when Snow makes the Games more violent and entertaining when the revolution begins growing. Its also present in the second book/movie where Katniss needs constantly to be reminded to "remember who the real enemy is."
The most relevant theme is the struggle between individuals and an all-powerful government.
[some spoilers for Mockingjay]
Personally I think that the most pressing issue that is in The Hunger Games and is the ethics of war. The lengths that can be justified in destroying a repressive, brutal regime.
However, to avoid repeating what has already been said, I would like to focus on the surveillance. Katniss becomes completely devoid of any real passion in filming the propaganda videos. She is constantly being censored and polished for presentation... she doesn't actually do much to overthrow The Capitol aside from being a symbol of the resistance. This constant preoccupation with how you come across, as opposed to what you actually do is reflected in reality in many ways. Celebrity culture. The way in which the media focuses in on particular political figures, caricaturing them or putting them on a pedestal, as opposed to the policies they stand for. Even the way we make ourselves come across on social media- from posting selfies, to having to select ''private session'' in Spotify to listen to music that you don't want your friends to know you like, to the news stories sharing in Facebook's feed.
I think each individual nowadays is, naturally, a good deal more obsessed with the way they come across than past generations. Perhaps this is robbing us of our spontaneity?
Personally I think that the most pressing issue that is in The Hunger Games and is the ethics of war. The lengths that can be justified in destroying a repressive, brutal regime.
However, to avoid repeating what has already been said, I would like to focus on the surveillance. Katniss becomes completely devoid of any real passion in filming the propaganda videos. She is constantly being censored and polished for presentation... she doesn't actually do much to overthrow The Capitol aside from being a symbol of the resistance. This constant preoccupation with how you come across, as opposed to what you actually do is reflected in reality in many ways. Celebrity culture. The way in which the media focuses in on particular political figures, caricaturing them or putting them on a pedestal, as opposed to the policies they stand for. Even the way we make ourselves come across on social media- from posting selfies, to having to select ''private session'' in Spotify to listen to music that you don't want your friends to know you like, to the news stories sharing in Facebook's feed.
I think each individual nowadays is, naturally, a good deal more obsessed with the way they come across than past generations. Perhaps this is robbing us of our spontaneity?
Nathaniel wrote: "The theme that caught my eye most dramatically was that of righteous leadership, that is, why does one person have the right to rule another. This theme is also dominant in Game of Thrones and the ..."Would you say more about how these shows make it clear that some form of leadership and oversight is necessary?
What I took away was evidence that oversight is corrupt, that all government is born of violence and aggression, and that the state is too dangerous to tolerate
I would argue the class differences. (I.e. capitol versus the districts) and how the districts are expected to live and work in poverty, often starving while the few in the capitol live like kings with extreme ignorance and no regard for those suffering at their expense.I would also argue that the biggest problem with society today is ignorance and even apathy. Those in power, Snow and others, make it a top priority to spam people's lives with the "reality" show of The Hunger Games. Those in the capitol are quite ignorant (ignorance is bliss) and those in the districts are apathetic (which I can understand comes from feeling helpless). But for a true revolution, people need to become EDUCATED. Start questioning this "reality" fed to you through a television and start CARING about your life. Just because this is how things are now doesn't mean things cannot change. It takes numbers and a widespread anger at those in charge manipulating society for their own prosperity.
The part of Catching Fire that made me happiest was when the districts started fighting back against their oppressors. When those ONE OR TWO people in a audience of hundreds showed they cannot be silenced. Absolutely inspiring.
James wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "The theme that caught my eye most dramatically was that of righteous leadership, that is, why does one person have the right to rule another. This theme is also dominant in Game o..."I apologize for the length of this response.
James I can see what you mean about government being born of violence and aggression. In "Revolution" I take my perspective from the flashbacks that reveal how Miles and Monroe eventually take the steps to organize. It seemed that in the beginning what they were doing was protecting the weak from the strong. While a strictly Darwinian perspective may see the violent death of the weak at the hands of the strong as a part of life, it seems to me that part of Government's role is to stop that.
In Game of Thrones (I have only watched 1 and 1/2 seasons) your point is perhaps more prevalent as pretty much all of the leaders seem to be corrupt and manipulative. At this point I see Robb and Ned Stark as representing those who are attempting to serve their families and people well. They of course have their flaws, but seem to be moving in the right direction.
In short, I think all three works display humankind's moral bankruptcy when given power, yet they also demonstrate our need for order. It is because of that bankruptcy and need for order that I believe the 1789 Constitution is the most genius creation of all time: a government that both governs and is governed.
One last thought, your point makes me think of the Pax Romana. After the Roman Empire conquered Europe their was a lasting peace in which great strides forward were made. This was, as you say, born of violence and aggression, but once leadership was established a period of flourishing began. This is what I wrestle with as I watch/read works like this: it seems civilization is born of blood and fire. How does one justify his rule? If America fell tomorrow with whom would I raise my sword? Would I abide in peace with my neighbors, or is the peace we live in today because of the Government we exist under?
I've read a lot of great comments that I agree with, but I would like to add anther. For me one of the most intriguing parts was the spark that lead to revolution.
Tyler wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "The theme that caught my eye most dramatically was that of righteous leadership, that is, why does one person have the right to rule another. This theme is also dominant in Game o..."Yes! And one question that would be good for us to consider is once we concede an area to the Government, can we take it back without bloodshed?
The oppression and class issues and contrast between the economically advantaged and the extreme poverty of some of the districts. It was just so sickening to see the extreme wealth of a few at the devastating expense of so many.
Nathaniel wrote: "This is what I wrestle with as I watch/read works like this: it seems civilization is born of blood and fire. How does one justify his rule? If America fell tomorrow with whom would I raise my sword? Would I abide in peace with..."I agree with you both on a lot of things and thought maybe there's another way to look at that particular concern there.
Maybe it's not civilization that is born of blood and fire, but that people are naturally conditioned toward blood and fire, and on occasion civilization has been an intensely beneficial result. I think going back through history, we're hard-pressed to find any example of lasting peace between differing groups, much as we may desire it and understand the profound superiority of free trade to warfare and the conquering of others.
Civilization is fine, and a strong civilization (meaning powerful internal cohesion) will find outside forces to be annoyances at worst. And yet, time passes and societies change, because people grow old and will imperfectly transmit their values to their children. Eventually, the civilization will have to change as well.
If America fell tomorrow? It would depend on the circumstances. Know what you believe at the deepest possible level, have some foundation at your core, and make sure that every action matches your moral conviction, even if that action might make things tough. It's not "to be or not to be" so much as what defines BEING in the first place. (I just felt a chill as I realized who I'm challenging here...)
Additional apologies for another long response!
For me, there are two themes I find most relevant today. First, is the psychological impact on a populace existing in a culture of fear & violence. I did not fully grasp how fear/violence-based US culture is today until I stepped outside of it by moving abroad. Second, is the enabling of tyranny by a greedy, gluttonous, and/or compassionless elite who were complicit in the consolidation of wealth & power by the Capitol. That behavior also repeats itself with the elite of the rebellion and in Coin's leadership. It points to an important question- is it possible to create and enjoy liberty without having to constantly struggle against this phenomenon?
Michelle wrote: "Brandon wrote: "There is so many aspects from the first movie I can see on how it reflects our society today. Most of the comments here I can agree on. There is some really great ones. The increase..."Yes indeed and when I learned how the elites of today actually pushed this thing and I seen the movie. I was like, "WOW" It's another way of control. Take Bill Gates for example who has pushed genetic engineering of the worlds food supply, as well as vaccines that can do far more harm than good, on to geoengineering. Also the man who is behind Microsoft in which Xbox is product of and recently through the system in virtual game, World of War Craft government spies have spied on people playing this. Kind like how they had a gauge in the first movie from what I remember in a controlled environment, expect it is fantasy, but almost the same deal to me in away when it comes to the spying.
In the movie they really gloat about the genetically engineered insects too. In a way it is almost as if the elites want to own the world and try to control it.
It's like when does control cross with supposedly good intentions? Questions are key.
