Allegiant (Divergent, #3) Allegiant discussion


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Alternate Allegiant Support Group (If you loved it!)

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Mirkat I can't help feeling that those of us who loved this book need a support group of our own. :D


Lilly HAHAHAHA not gonna happen >:| Veronica is going down just like she brought Tris down (pulls gun trigger) in cold blood


Vanessa I was so sad when Tris died and how Tobias reacted to her death. I was even expecting but it still had an effect on me. It was a great book I just wish that Tris didn't Die!


message 4: by Mirkat (last edited Nov 21, 2013 04:40PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mirkat Vanessa wrote: "I was so sad when Tris died and how Tobias reacted to her death. I was even expecting but it still had an effect on me. It was a great book I just wish that Tris didn't Die!"

Oh, I hear you. Even when I realized it was going to happen, I was still hoping it wouldn't.


message 5: by Mairead (last edited Nov 15, 2013 02:20PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mairead I hate how all these people are putting the book down and saying they'll boycott the divergent film just because they didn't like Allegiant. They read Allegiant because they must have liked the first two, so there is no reason not to see the first film if they liked the first book.
Okay rant over sorry, people were just getting a bit nasty about Veronica Roth and I just thought "she can write whatever she wants in her books. You don't have to like it, but you don't need to be horrible either.

I loved Allegiant , I loved the ending. I was very upset when Tris died but I still liked the ending.


Amanda What irritates me is the people who say they won't ever read anything else VR comes out with. Come on people, this was her first book series, it was a worldwide bestseller and it got a movie deal, she did something right.


Mirkat I agree--some of the vitriol against VR has been really over the top. I'll definitely look forward to reading her future books.


Amanda also something I have noticed is that some people will say I did not like the book because of the crappy writing but they won't explain what parts were crappy. Some do expain and that is fine but it seems like more and more the "Crappy writing line" has become the excuse to hate on VR for not writing the book some people wanted.


Amanda explain*


message 10: by S (new) - rated it 4 stars

S Agreed! So many people hate the book because Tris died and although I was mad about that, I loved the writing in this book. It was a bold move on Roth's side to kill off a main character, but I felt like it was what I was expecting. There were rumors that she would kill of Tobias early on, so this was a nice change.


message 11: by Manahil (last edited Nov 16, 2013 05:32PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Manahil Okay Tris dies, and then Tobias is sad, but he is at least supossed to be dpressed and crying like a little girl!!! HE CANNOT JUST MOVE ON!!! Other than that, it was a great series. :)
I don't like the person who is going to play Tris, she is nothing like what I had in mind, also, the guy for Tobias was okay. I imagined him a bit more muscular, and his face is okay, I guess.


message 12: by Lilly (new) - rated it 1 star

Lilly This series is perfection. It hit rock bottom when Tris died. Period A Freaking Men.


Surabhi I really liked the whole series. I'll admit that the third book was not my favorite, and I do have some problems with it, but not because of the ending. I don't agree with all the people saying that their going to boycott the movie, and anything else Veronica Roth writes just because of the ending of one book...


Danielle I liked this book, not as much as the others because it left like it belong in a different series, but I enjoyed being able to read about these characters one last time. On Tris' death, I realized it was going to happen pretty early but I thought it would be from the death serum and I was still hoping she would survive. When the death serum didn't kill her I was so happy and thought the book would be tied with a pretty little bow, THEN SHE GOT SHOT. That just tore me apart, I cried like a baby. I support why Veronica Roth choose that ending though, it shows what actually happens in the war. It doesn't get solved with that pretty bow.


Danielle And wasn't anyone else thinking Tris is probably going to die when Veronica said adding Four's POV was pivotal for the telling of the story in Allegiant. That was the first clue I got.


message 16: by Lilly (new) - rated it 1 star

Lilly Danielle wrote: "And wasn't anyone else thinking Tris is probably going to die when Veronica said adding Four's POV was pivotal for the telling of the story in Allegiant. That was the first clue I got."

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that Four's POV was a total set up for our demise.


Mirkat I had seen comments speculating that adding Tobias as a narrator was a set-up to allow for Tris dying, but I didn't want to believe it. I remember VR saying that the story was too big for just one narrator's perspective, and I was just hoping that was true. Then I got sucker-punched. [Still loved the book, though. :)]


Natasha I loved Allegiant and I think that people are being really harsh about Veronica Roth and the series. Stop the hate! Although I was really upset when Tris died I thought that it was a good ending and Veronica Roth managed to pull something big, like that, off really well. Normally the main character always survives having faced death many times. I like that Veronica Roth broke those rules and added reality into her book. Yes, maybe I would've liked Tris to survive and her and Tobias to live 'Happily Ever After' but that doesn't always happen and I like that she didn't do that. Also I liked how Veronica Roth ended the book with them spreading Tris's ashes and the fact that Tobias would never forget Tris but was happy enough with his life at the end, so really all the characters ended up happy.

~Natasha~


message 19: by Emily (last edited Nov 17, 2013 11:38AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Emily I loved Allegiant, I'd heard lots of people say that it had a really bad ending but I must say that Tris dying was not as bad as I expected. From what people were saying I thought Tris and Tobias might have a row and split up etc. etc. I must say, as it got closer to the end I did expect it and see it coming however I did not cry. I thought I would and maybe the fact that I didn't was because a- there wasn't enough emotion as it happened quite quickly or b- I was trying to finish it before I went off to school and was in a room full of other people and it might have been awkward if I burst into tears... Perhaps if I was reading in my room at night like usual I would have cried...

Anyways, I liked the ending, although it was sad, because, as Natasha said, it added reality. No one is that lucky to avoid death over and over again while everyone around them is shot down (quite literally in this book). It was a huge thing to pull off and Veronica Roth did it fantastically well. Just because you personally don't like it, doesn't mean its bad. Someone might hate a book that you love but that doesn't make it wrong, or bad.

There was only one thing that I didn't like about the book and that was the constant switching between the two points of view. There were many times that I read Tobias' part in Tris' POV and then I was like 'What's going on? I thought her mum was dead? Oh right, its Tobias...' however I understand that she had to do this in order to kill Tris and still have the scenes with Tobias at the end.


Mirkat Emily wrote: "There were many times that I read Tobias' part in Tris' POV and then I was like 'What's going on? I thought her mum was dead? Oh right, its Tobias...'"

That happened to me, too, and I've seen others mention the same thing. I haven't decided whether this was because I'd become so used to Tris being the narrator that I just expected it, or whether this came from their narrative voices being too similar.


Emily Mirkat wrote: "I haven't decided whether this was because I'd become so used to Tris being the narrator that I just expected it, or whether this came from their narrative voices being too similar."

Yeah, In the first and second books there was a clear difference in the characters but when we actually got to see inside Tobias' head, his thoughts weren't that different from Tris' yet in Divergent and Insurgent, what we got from him was entirely different from Tris


Mirkat Nobody, that's what I came away with, too--the "sad but beautiful." Great assortment of quotes. :)


Lauren The only fault i found in the book was the POV changes. I found myself having to regularly check who's head I was in as they were no different. Tobias and Tris both have different personalities and would think differently, otherwise overall i enjoyed it.


Rayden Summers I freaking loved Allegiant. I was not disappointed whatsoever! This series has become my favorite series. Veronica Roth is brilliant! Most authors (in my opinion) do not have the guts to kill off the main character! I mean I didnt want Tris to die, of course, but that scene made the entire book that much better. I just absolutely 100% loved it. I recommend it to everyone!


Miranda I agree about the POV changes being a little difficult. I always had to recheck too when something didn't add up. I didn't like Tris dying, and thought the last book was a tad boring and not what I expected (the whole gene thing). But I still loved the books for the whole story and I still love Tris and Four. I'll see the movie and read some of her books again if they seem interesting and up my ally.


Kailey I know this book is getting a lot of hate but I really liked it. Although I was sad when tris died, (and cried like a baby I might add), I think it was amazing


Veronica i love divergent too much to hate it,no matter how treacherous the ending was.


message 28: by Madi (new) - rated it 5 stars

Madi Veronica wrote: "i love divergent too much to hate it,no matter how treacherous the ending was."

I have to agree with you but the series itself is awesome


Basma I really hate how a lot of people are giving it hate. Some people are even going to boycott the movie. I cried a lot when Tris died (I was in 6th period. :/. But the book was amazing. I felt like Veronica Roth was just being realistic. People die in real life. At least Tris died while saving people and being selfless. This series is one of my favorites and Veronica Roth is one of my favorite authors. Nothing is going to change that. So I am going to watch the movie, probably cry the whole time, and reread the series. "Harry Potter will never truly be gone as long as there are those who remain loyal." Same with Tris. She is still with us, in our hearts.


message 30: by Victoria (new)

Victoria Basma wrote: "I really hate how a lot of people are giving it hate. Some people are even going to boycott the movie. I cried a lot when Tris died (I was in 6th period. :/. But the book was amazing. I felt like V..."

Yeah! I really think that a lot of people are hating it just because they don't like that she died. But in so many ways, the story was Veronica Roth's and she had to end it in the way that she felt best.

Personally, I found the plot a little bit weak, but I loved the ending. In a sense, I feel she didn't choose to sacrifice herself. She knew Caleb would die, but she knew she might be able to survive the death serum. But she didn't know David would be waiting. And maybe that makes a difference somehow.

I couldn't stop crying though.


Alanna I Actually enjoyed Allegiant. the pov switching was a nice difference from Divergent and Insurgent. I think that Veronica Roth wrote 3 great books!(except four the fact that Tris died)


message 32: by Lily (last edited Jan 22, 2014 12:41PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lily my friend told me Tris died before i even started the book!
i hated it but it was the way the author chose to end it so i just have to deal.
it was so ironic that she died from a gunshot, not the serum.


message 33: by Drew (last edited Jan 28, 2014 06:18PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Drew Stogsdill If you don't like the ending of Allegiant (I thought it ended perfectly), perhaps you are missing some of the point. Based on what I've read in the back of the book about the author, seems like she is religious and it hit me... after finishing the book... this makes so much sense.

SPOILER: Tris was Genetically perfect and Tobias was Genetically Defective. Both were left with choices, both choices were based on forgiveness and Tobias made the easier of the two choices and Tris made the choice that shows she really had truly forgiven Caleb.

Tobias makes the easier of his choices, placing a choice on his mother to love him, rather than him making a choice to forgive Marcus.

The choice Tris made me think of christian beliefs and sacrifices (not to throw in religion, but the factions and the actions of the characters leading up to the end seem to be based on these principles) and Tobias was a follower (remember how he was described a follower that could be so much more if he made his own choices), from the heart and believed in himself.

Just like the Bureau... there is always a bigger picture and sometimes we have to look from a distance in order to see who we really are. Maybe if we weren't followers and made choices based on the faction principles for ourselves... we'd be complete.

How do you know what your fighting for if you only follow... how can you have peace if you can't forgive... How can you be selfless if you can't love... What good is knowledge if you don't know the truth... and around and round...

Basically, I think Tris had to go at the end... the gunshot was her crucifixion, the ultimate sacrifice for the many, like Jesus. The mind erase was forgiveness for our sins. Something like that... this is not a sermon, lol.

It struck me how at the end, Tobias is still a follower, assistant to Johanna... Not the leader yet. He did face his fears at the end... so he's pure Dauntless... but he still has more to do to be Divergent. Maybe that is why VR is writing more about him.

But for the haters, in theory... let's say Tris lives, she and Tobias live happily ever after, have babies... the end. Kind of lame, Tris is perfectly Divergent. Her story is done (mommy even says so)... Four, on the other hand, still has some story. He can become a leader (a high profile politician)... he can find Marcus... he can meet someone else... he still has a ways to go to become Divergent...


Caroline Alanna wrote: "I Actually enjoyed Allegiant. the pov switching was a nice difference from Divergent and Insurgent. I think that Veronica Roth wrote 3 great books!(except four the fact that Tris died)"
My friend actually did the same thing to me but when she told me I was a little hesitant to read the third book but I eventually did read it but when I finished it I actually really enjoyed it. Although I didn't particularly like that Tris died that doesn't deteriorate from the fact that it is a fantastic series. The movie will hopefully give the book justice. Veronica Roth is also an amazing writer and I look forward to reading any other books that she writes. I also think that people who want to boycott the movie because they disliked the ending to the third book need to go reread the first two books to remind them why they even read the series in the first place. Also these books were really good and people need to remember how much they liked the author until the third book so VR is obviously a great writer if all of these people even read her third book.


Basma Caroline wrote: "Alanna wrote: "I Actually enjoyed Allegiant. the pov switching was a nice difference from Divergent and Insurgent. I think that Veronica Roth wrote 3 great books!(except four the fact that Tris die..."

Wow that was perfect. You just summed up everything I was feeling. So preach it!


message 36: by B. (new) - rated it 5 stars

B. Howerton Rayden wrote: "I freaking loved Allegiant. I was not disappointed whatsoever! This series has become my favorite series. Veronica Roth is brilliant! Most authors (in my opinion) do not have the guts to kill off t..."

+1


message 37: by B. (new) - rated it 5 stars

B. Howerton I love the whole series. All of you have voiced the reasons why rather eloquently.

I still miss Tris.


message 38: by Ella (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ella If this was your book, you could've made it differently. It's not, though. I liked the whole ending, because it's very different than anything else I've read. I think it would've been terrible if there was a "happy ending." It would've been like any other story. Yeah, I miss Tris, and I pity Tobias and i feel bad for Uriah and everyone else, but don't hate Veronica Roth! Just because you didn't like it, you shouldn't hate Veronica... She had her reasons for doing what she did.


notyourfriend Yea, after reading what Veronica Roth had to say about the ending on her blog, I got a new respect for her, the book, the series, and Tris. It was beautifully written.


Emily Drew wrote: "If you don't like the ending of Allegiant (I thought it ended perfectly), perhaps you are missing some of the point. Based on what I've read in the back of the book about the author, seems like she..."

You kind of lost me with the part about forgiving Marcus. Tris forgiving Caleb and Tobias forgiving Marcus is not the same thing at all- Tobias forgiving Marcus would have been significantly more difficult than forgiving Caleb. Caleb is Tris' brother- while what he did in Erudite was wrong, he's young and he was raised to believe in faction before blood. He made an awful, stupid, misguided choice, but that's more forgivable in a 16 year old. Besides that, Caleb was a good brother before the Erudite incident- Tris and Caleb had a good relationship up until that point, and forgiving Caleb was in part out of a desire to get that relationship back. Marcus, on the other hand, is a grown man who abused Tobias both physically and emotionally for years. The parent-child dynamic is very different from a sibling dynamic. As Tobias' father, it was his job to look out for Tobias and to love him, and he violated that bond by doing the exact opposite. Years of abuse from a parent is something that's A LOT harder to forgive than a onetime betrayal from a sibling- no matter how serious Caleb's actions could have been. Marcus really ruined Tobias' childhood and, as was made evident in Allegiant, caused Tobias a great deal of long-term insecurities and anxieties. I think Tobias' tendency to be a follower and doubt himself has nothing to do with any so-called "genetic deficiency", that level of insecurity and self-doubt is common for someone who was abused as a child. Actually, considering how awful Marcus treated Tobias, Tobias is really pretty well-adjusted.


message 41: by Drew (last edited Jan 29, 2014 11:59AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Drew Stogsdill Emily wrote: "Drew wrote: "If you don't like the ending of Allegiant (I thought it ended perfectly), perhaps you are missing some of the point. Based on what I've read in the back of the book about the author, s..."

I see your point. I wasn't using genetically defective (maybe a better word would be damaged "due to his father") from a scientific point of view, like DNA and all that, I was using it from a comparison to Tris... or being Pure Divergent.

If there is any point of what I was trying to state, is that, Tobias has more work to do... and hopefully, we see his Divergent (or spiritual growth) fleshed out in upcoming stories. And that maybe, he will connect with his father in the future and something will happen with that relationship.

Again, I hear your point, and it is a great point, but it also one of the things I thought was holding Tobias back from being Divergent... so I'm not trying to pick him apart... I'm just trying my best to explain, from solely my point of view, what I took from the book. I guess I'm really just trying to start a conversation and to see if others discovered a deeper meaning in the story than "Tris gets killed".

And it is your point about Marcus that I feel would be great for the author to continue to write about Tobias and how he comes to terms with his relationship with Marcus in the future.


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

I thought I was the only one who cryed!!! i hate that she died but when i thought of it that was the only way to end the book without "happily ever after"


Ariel Ella wrote: "If this was your book, you could've made it differently. It's not, though. I liked the whole ending, because it's very different than anything else I've read. I think it would've been terrible if t..."

Exactlly what I said if they wanted it different they should have wrote it themselves first but since they didn't they should get over it. I agree with everything else you said to.


message 44: by Ariel (last edited Jan 31, 2014 04:49PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ariel Vera wrote: "I thought I was the only one who cryed!!! i hate that she died but when i thought of it that was the only way to end the book without "happily ever after""

I thought I was the only one to!! when I took the time to think about it I came to the same conclusion as you plus even if we didn't like it we would still have no other choice but to get over it. We didn't write it, and we can't change it so the only other rational answer was to accept it and get over it, it was a really good series overall. If I had the chance to do it over I would still read the series because I don't regret reading any of the books. I also cried when Uriah died he was one of my friend's and my favorite characters.I think Veronica Roth did the right thing going with how she wanted with the series rather than with what she knew would make the readers happy. YOu can never make everyone happy so do what makes you happy. I will read future books that she writes and watch the movie even if Uriah won't be in the first movie (I still can't figure out how that is going to work, but I guess I will find out.)


Airyn S I have been emotionally crippled by the ending of Allegiant. I knew what was coming, I saw the signs..... but it did not run the course I had hoped it would. Despite how things turned out, I really loved the story. This will be one I read again and again, just not anytime soon. I want to start another book but I can't get into anything else. I haven't been this vulnerable since I finished the Golden Compass series. Any recommendations on books that will help us broken hearted folks to move on?


Basma I literally just finished rereading Allegiant and I still love it. The second time around it made me respect Tris even more and understand her choices more. It was so touching and perfect.


message 47: by Salma (new)

Salma Sebt It was an amazing book, but I don't think i can be ever the same without tris and of cours Tobias/Four without tris


Maddie Leena wrote: "i think that what veronica roth did was so right! i mean we have all read the books and we know what kind of charater tris is, she always tries to do what is right and she has a strong and stubbor..."

I totally agree with your comment. I think it must have taken a lot of courage for Roth to kill Tris. It was also pretty obvious it would happen eventually due to her always putting everyone else before herself- she was going to sacrifice herself at some point just like she did in Insurgent. I also thought Tobias also responded reasonably well to the death of Tris with the help of Christina(apart from when he tried to erase his memory)

Overall this was a brilliant book(just skip the first 300pages) with a great ending which wasn't your average happily ever after


message 49: by Aisha (last edited Apr 26, 2014 11:57AM) (new)

Aisha i didnt cry when tris died but i almost cried when tobias was going to use the memory serum and christina came in it was so sad and cute


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