Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
Author Resource Round Table
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Should Novels Come with Explicit Content Labels?
Hmm, very interesting question and article Gamal. I would say no based off the sole fact that come on now, they are books why would they need labels? However given society today and peoples inner need to speak and write freely as they please one could say that perhaps a label should be put on books. I can picture a parental advisory sticker on a book just like the ones they have in the corner of cd's. It would also seem silly but again perhaps it needs to happen because some books have such horrific content that maybe it needs to be known before reading. There would however need to be a guideline to follow for what qualifies as 'must be labeled'. We certainly wouldnt want our timeless classics like 'Catcher in the Rye', Huckleberry Finn, Of Mice and Men and 1984 just to name a few to be labeled for controversial explicity from years ago that arent still considered today. It would take a lot or again certain types of content for it to be labeled otherwise all horror books and crime novels would be slapped with such labels. It does definitely raise for a good question though.
I actually put the following "Content Advisory" in the description for my book on Amazon's website:Content Advisory: This book is intended for mature audiences and contains graphic violence, explicit sexual activity and disturbing imagery
I like the idea of a content advisory, not for censoring purposes, but to ensure that the right reader finds the right book. For me, it's a matter of putting the book in the right "category" so that the reader has a sense of what they are getting into and is totally on board with it. That's not to say I don't believe in "being surprised" (both pleasantly and unpleasantly) by a book, as a reader I enjoyed that kind of thing all the time. But as a writer selling my book, I do feel an odd sense of obligation in making sure that the people who purchase it know a little bit about the content, just so that they can make an informed buying decision. Also, I have kids, and so as a parent, it’s nice to have a quick way of identifying what they may or may not be reading.
But that's just me.
Content advisory is a good idea; I'd love to do it, but how to define and draw the line between explicit and non explicit. I mean, there is explicit such as erotica, and there is semi-explicit where the scene is described (not skipped) but still leaves most to the imagination.Same goes for language. Do you add language advisory if the book has a few curses in it or just when it sounds like a bunch of pirates swearing every two words?
Some people might be offended to read some words(don't click spoiler if you get offended easily)(view spoiler) while others will mind only if it is overdone. Do you add a content advisory as mild sex, language, violence etc.?
Nope, and neither should music, movies, television or computer games. It's all creeping stealth censorship, IMO.
It is, unfortunately, a product of the world we live in today, but I think we're going to see ratings on books in the next ten years or so. Compared to the days when The Shining and The Girl Next Door were new, society has grown much less tolerant of violence, and it has gotten quick to bark at anything which even hints of any kind of discrimination. In addition, we have the current Young Adult movement with all of its branches. It's only a matter of time before parents step up from "This book should be banned from public schools!" to actively petitioning their government for some kind of warning system that they can ignore.
Thanks Richard! That was instructive and answered my questions. :)
Anthony wrote: "I actually put the following "Content Advisory" in the description for my book on Amazon's website:Content Advisory: This book is intended for mature audiences and contains graphic violence, exp..."
Thanks Anthony. I asked you this question on my blog page, but I think folks here might want to see your answer too.
"Do you think it makes more sense to put the advisory on the web page for the book or on the cover? Do you think the placement has an impact on the effectiveness of the warning?"
Thanks.
Gamal
G.G. wrote: "Content advisory is a good idea; I'd love to do it, but how to define and draw the line between explicit and non explicit. I mean, there is explicit such as erotica, and there is semi-explicit wher..."I think each author has to "draw their own line" because the idea of a central regulating board for book content does smack of the stealth censorship that Andrew is warning against. The main problem with self imposed advisories is the perspective of the author. James Patterson, Anais Nin and Marquis de Sade probably all had different ideas on the explicit natures of their books so the label, much like the craft of writing itself is purely subjective.
Some libraries have explicit policies against such labeling because other libraries have policies to create such labels. If these labels are printed on the books, libraries opposed to them may either have to paper over the labels (which would be censorship)or not order from publishers that are labeling books which would be denial of access to those books-another type of censorship. If there is a law passed by Congress that all books must carry labels, it would hopefully be struck down as unconstitutional. Yet certain Supreme Court decisions make this less than probable. I don't know what the American Library Association will do if that happens. It would be a huge dilemma for the library profession.Shomeret (library Student)
Shaun wrote: "It is, unfortunately, a product of the world we live in today, but I think we're going to see ratings on books in the next ten years or so. Compared to the days when The Shining and The Girl Next D..."As I look around the current entertainment landscape, I don't think I see less of an appetite for violence. Movie violence, like the Raid or the Saw series, video game violence, like Hitman or Assassin's Creed and TV violence like Spartacus or Strike Back, has become more graphic compared to offerings 15-20 years ago.
I think the mainstream attitude to sex is overwhelmingly negative, but even there you have entertainment taking risks with things like Game of Thrones, Shame and Twelve Years a Slave.
The idea of a book ratings system might have made sense prior to the self publishing boom, since the gatekeepers could tack on a rating the same way they attached an ISBN. But with the decentralization of e-books, how would anyone implement that kind of system? Even if Amazon and Smashwords tried to enforce mandatory ratings, how would they read all the books? Would a keyword analysis be able to make a decent determination without a real person reading the book? How would they stop writers from selling direct through their own websites? I'm sure someone smarter than me could figure out a ratings system, but I'm also sure other people smarter than me would quickly figure out a way around it.
Does that make sense, Shaun?
Shomeret wrote: "Some libraries have explicit policies against such labeling because other libraries have policies to create such labels. If these labels are printed on the books, libraries opposed to them may eith..."Thank you Shomeret. How do you think the library stance on labels affects the electronic and online sale of books? A publisher could easily have a "library safe" cover that doesn't have a label and then create a "label cover" to use to sell the book. Does this create a new set of problems?
I'm not advocating any kind of government imposition of labels. I do plan to put labels on my own books, if only to inform readers of what they are getting if they decide to read my book.
I think it depends on the genre. It's redundant for an advisory warning about possible sex in romance. At the same time YA with explicit sexual content should come with a warning. If you're going to do that at least tag it new adult.
Gamal wrote: "Anthony wrote: "I actually put the following "Content "Do you think it makes more sense to put the advisory on the web page for the book or on the cover? Do you think the placement has an impact on the effectiveness of the warning?"That's a great question. I placed the advisory in the book description as a kind of compromise as I don’t have books in an actual physical store, but online, so the purchasing portal was where I thought the content advisory should be. But if you think about it…i guess it would be like comic books or manga, where there is a little box on the top of the book that has a code that provides a Rating Code or symbol, like T+ for Older Teens or whatever. Usually, like with Viz comics, there is a tiny url under the rating code that directs readers to where they can get explanations on their rating system.
But regardless…I guess it would make sense to place the content advisory on the book jacket itself.I just don’t have the “graphic skill” wherewithal to do such a thing. And also, because there is no real book rating system in place, the coding would be confusing and arbitrary. I think for now, I prefer to put the advisory (and notice I’m not calling it a “warning” as there is nothing wrong with the content or poisonous or dangerous…it’s just an advisory) in the book description so that the potential buyer sees it before they make the purchase.
It is a good question, I choose I mark mine adult content and give a warning the books contain violence and sexual scenes. Personally if someone is likely to be offended then I would rather not have them buy the book and end up leaving a bad review.Advisory is a good term.
The first two novels in my horror trilogy are so graphic and disturbing that I put warnings on my website, within the Goodreads summary and even on the back cover of the paperback books. I wouldn't want them to fall into the wrong hands. I think it's prudent to make it clear that the content may be inappropriate and/or offensive to some readers.
Gamal wrote: "Shaun wrote: "It is, unfortunately, a product of the world we live in today, but I think we're going to see ratings on books in the next ten years or so. Compared to the days when The Shining and T..."Except every other aspect of the entertainment industry has ratings that tell people what to expect. Movies are rated R or even NC-17. Video games are rated MA for mature. The TV shows you listed are on channels which are paid extras and not part of most basic cable packages, and even then, they also carry ratings themselves. Even music has ratings and warnings for explicit material.
If traditional publishing could read the landscape and draw out a battle-plan, ratings on books would be a good thing for them and bad for self-publishing because it's one more way they could say "Look, we have this system set up so you know exactly what you're getting. When you buy a self-published work, you really don't know what you might end up with." A lot of people would eat that up, since they're already so used to living with ratings systems. It wouldn't matter that they couldn't enforce it across the board and actually just works more in their favor.
I think warnings should be present on books. I'm not big on the G,PG,R etc rating system, but I do think there should be warning labels for graphic violence, sexual content, drug use and the like. My first book has got lots of violence and profanity, so I made the last line of my blurb a content warning.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "I think it depends on the genre. It's redundant for an advisory warning about possible sex in romance. At the same time YA with explicit sexual content should come with a warning. If you're going t..."I agree with that concept. The reason I started thinking about the idea was because I'm writing a crime story that has several sex scenes in it. If I pitched it as erotica, I wouldn't bother with the label. But once a book comes out of that space I prefer to give readers a heads up on what they are getting into.
Anthony wrote: "Gamal wrote: "Anthony wrote: "I actually put the following "Content "Do you think it makes more sense to put the advisory on the web page for the book or on the cover? Do you think the placement ha..."That makes sense Anthony, but have you considered adding a small explicit content advisory image on the digital cover of your book? That way people could see the warning even before they read the book.
Gamal wrote: "Shomeret wrote: "Some libraries have explicit policies against such labeling because other libraries have policies to create such labels. If these labels are printed on the books, libraries opposed..."A library edition without content advisory labels would allow libraries to treat the book like any other. They could decide to carry it or not depending on reviews and their collection policies.
I'd be in favour of movie-style ratings for books. It could have prevented the recent fiasco where swathes of ebooks were withdrawn from sale simply because a few were found to be sexually explicit and on sale to all ages.
I can understand why it would be a good idea to give content ratings. However, in my opinion I would say no. I think that one can usually judge by the topic of the book if it contains any type of illicit themes or descriptions, etc. I feel like literature is our last frontier of freedom. We can write and or read anything we want and say anything no matter how risque. To me, giving books ratings is just too 'big brother' to me...it's almost akin to book burnings. This is only my opinion though.,
It's not "akin" to book burning at all, but you can certainly argue that it's one of the first steps along a path that could lead to a bonfire of 'inappropriate' books. It's a bit like that poem. "First they came for the self-published authors of freely-punctuated forbidden vampire love trash. And I said nothing, because I was not a self-published author of free-punctuate forbidden vampire love trash..."
To me, rating any kind of art IS 'akin' to book burning. That is my opinion it is just as appalling. That is my view.
Movie ratings have been around for years, and they haven't led to the destruction of movies. I think concerns about the availability of material to those too young to deal with it properly are justified in principle. Writers can't have it all their own way. Society is bigger than art, bigger than writers, and we have to accept that.
Yes, I agree with that argument. As I said, I can definitely understand why it would be a good idea. For me, however it just doesn't sit well. I feel that if a child reads an explicit novel then the parents are responsible. That is why there are genres for certain age groups, ie young adult and new adult, etc.
The point of a ratings system would be to form the basis for restricting availability. Just as kids aren't allowed into movies houses to see adult-rated movies, they wouldn't be allowed to buy adult-rated books.
Are you against that, and if so, why?
Are you against that, and if so, why?
Don't they have the childrens section seperate from the adult section? I mean, when I go and buy my nephew books they don't have the Lama Sutra within arms reach.
Kama sutra** sorry my phone auto corrects.
Probably the easiest way to do this is for Amazon, Smashwords, etc. to expand their existing system where authors check a box as to whether or not a book is sexually explicit.All they would have to do is switch from boxes to radio buttons where authors self rate on a scale how much sex, profanity, and violence (three scales) is in the book and then display that scale to readers. A one to five or one to ten scale would be harder to self assess than a one to three, but it would probably be more meaningful.
"The Fussy Librarian" also has a scale that is fairly meaningful they could adopt.
And as an aside on the censorship, just to show you the flaws on the CreateSpace/Amazon check boxes: has anyone noticed the box for large print? And have any of you actually used it?
I'm a low vision author and naturally offer all my books in large print editions. So I have those boxes checked on my large print editions. I THOUGHT this would make my books more visible and increase accessibility to the differently abled like myself. But in fact, the box means Amazon BURIES the edition. Pull up my author page and you WON'T SEE my large print editions exist. Even on a conventional search for title and you won't find them! The ONLY WAY to locate and buy one of my large print books is to put in "large print" in the search box with the title.
And you wonder why I have not sold any large print books, even though I'm a semi-active member of the National Federation for the Blind?
The burying ACCESSIBLE materials is of course a different issue than rating systems. But it does show up what happens with the current system if you check that box on CreateSpace.
Yes I have ticked the box for large print::) Smashwords has an adult filter. :)I think the problem is it's a matter of taste and of definition. What John may find explicit Jane may not. What Jane may find too violent John may not. One person's meat is another's poison, as they say. Unless there are on site guidelines it's up to the author's decretion to decide how explicit a scene might be.
Lama Sutra... that conjures up some VERY disturbing images...
The blurb should tell readers what's what and companies can easily put in Adult Only buttons so those books are not visible to under 18s or whatever individual country rules are. But! kids who go online can get through all that with just a click. I think kids shouldn't be online without supervision.
And! What exactly is adult anyway? I read Jilly Cooper and Flowers in the Attic when I was 14 pr so, and both contain rather adult themes. Would you put them in the Over 18 only section?
Lama Sutra. I love it!
Lama Sutra... Dalai or woolly?
Moralizing is difficult.My books could be rated XXX or General audience. Depends who you ask.
A morality enforcer would say XXX. A teenager could be bored and disappointed.
I write about sex. But don't use 'bad' words. Other books have violence and f*** words.
Personally I read all. And have been doing that for 70 years. I'm 76.
I would say that reality is different from regulation.
What does everyone else think of my idea on this about putting the black parental advisory label on books that you see on cds?
I wish they would, I would like to know what I am getting into before I start reading it.
Burn the books. They have ideas too. Not only sex or violence or f words are bad.
Ideas are bad and nobody knows which (bad) ideas will a reader gleam from reading a book.
Seriously, just go fast though the pages. Or read a sample. Nobody has ever died from reading a description of an ignominious act. Except in Salem or Afghanistan.
Shaun wrote: "It is, unfortunately, a product of the world we live in today, but I think we're going to see ratings on books in the next ten years or so. Compared to the days when The Shining and The Girl Next D..."At least in the States, society is far less tolerant of sexuality than it is of violence. Witness Facebook's recent dustup about censoring pictures of breastfeeding women but allowing video of decapitations.
What is more damaging to a child, to read about people having sex or to read rabid and potentially convincing political manifestos? I guarantee, you'd get labels on books with mild sexuality long before you'd see any on Mein Kampf.
@OP, I don't like to pad the corners for people too much, not even for teens. I've always wondered exactly what kind of parent can't tell the difference between Grand Theft Auto and Spyro the Dragon for their gradeschooler, that we need warning labels. Those parents aren't likely to CARE what's on the warning label anyway. And that's what "parental guidance" is all about.
If an author chooses to put such a label on his/her work, then more power to them. That's their choice. But I would not want such a thing mandated.
Humberto said: "Nobody has ever died from reading a description of an ignominious act. Except in Salem or Afghanistan." No, but I would feel terrible if my work triggered an episode for someone with PTSD from a war or from being raped or from some other trauma -- loss of a child, assault, any of a million things.
The question becomes, whose responsibility is it to deal with it: Is it the person himself who should take care to avoid books about his trigger subject? Is it the author's responsibility to protect the readers from her thoughts? Is it the government's responsibility to force the authors and publishers to protect the readers?
A.L. wrote: "Yes I have ticked the box for large print::) Smashwords has an adult filter. :)I think the problem is it's a matter of taste and of definition. What John may find explicit Jane may not. What Jan..."
Why would Lama Sutra be disturbing? A lama is the head of a Tibetan Buddhist monastery. A sutra is a verse in a Buddhist text. Lamas often chant sutras. This is an illustration of subjectivity in what offends. People have different backgrounds and perceptions.
Jordan wrote: "Humberto said: "Nobody has ever died from reading a description of an ignominious act. Except in Salem or Afghanistan." No, but I would feel terrible if my work triggered an episode for someone w..."
Adults should know how to avoid material that triggers them, and adults who are parents are responsible for doing that for that children because they know their children best.
Nemo wrote: "Movie ratings have been around for years, and they haven't led to the destruction of movies..."The MPAA rating system is a good example of how a rating system can go awry. The various dysfunctions of that system have been well-documented (at least here in L.A.), but to summarize, the system is slanted in favor of violent content and against sexual content. Torture-porn films Saw and Hostel are rated R, while a film such as Shame is rated NC-17 (and thus shut out of a lot of theater chains and ad outlets). Let's not even get into the controversy over how many of what kinds of words forms the boundary between PG-13 and R...
A.L. and Humberto both hit on another issue: whose taste do the ratings fit? I have a certain amount of violence in my books -- certainly nothing that couldn't play on basic cable or even a broadcast network drama -- and the adult characters speak like adults. It's nothing a teen reader hasn't seen or said a zillion times. That teen's parents, however, might get the vapors at the thought that little Jacob or Amanda sees a certain four-letter profanity in print, never mind that s/he hears (or says) it several dozen times a day. Who do I rate for -- the reader or the parent? A reader in Los Angeles, or one in the Bible Belt?
Even a numeric scale poses problems of taste and viewpoint. How much of what kind of sex makes the difference between a 4 and 5 on the sexual-content scale? Until just a few years ago, on-screen kissing would rate a "5" on that scale for Bollywood films, and our Amish readers might consider hand-holding to be at least a "3". Similarly, a explicit decapitation scene might rate a "3" for violence with an American audience, but "5" for a European readership. Would we have to rate differently for each market? And you thought setting prices in half a dozen currencies was a pain...
Justin wrote: "What does everyone else think of my idea on this about putting the black parental advisory label on books that you see on cds?"That's the concept I was going with as well Justin. I'm not really interested in outside regulation or a complex system like TV and movies. The music advisory is simple and it fits on a book cover.
Humberto wrote: "Burn the books. They have ideas too. Not only sex or violence or f words are bad.
Ideas are bad and nobody knows which (bad) ideas will a reader gleam from reading a book.
Seriously, just go fa..."
A small sticker on the cover of an e-book would send the message faster than if the potential reader went through the sample. Besides, if they are sensitive to a particular concept by the time they read the sample it's too late for them to avoid it.
Jordan wrote: "Humberto said: "Nobody has ever died from reading a description of an ignominious act. Except in Salem or Afghanistan." No, but I would feel terrible if my work triggered an episode for someone w..."
I'm not suggesting the government or Amazon or anyone else come in from the outside and mandate any kind of label. I've simply decided to place a warning label on my book to help the readers make up their mind. I'm sure if Marquis de Sade were alive today, he wouldn't label his books, but as long as each of us can make their own decisions about our books, I think it makes sense.
Lance wrote: "Nemo wrote: "Movie ratings have been around for years, and they haven't led to the destruction of movies..."The MPAA rating system is a good example of how a rating system can go awry. The variou..."
When it comes to books, I don't think a rating system with levels makes sense. I also don't think that the author should try to label books for any specific subset of the population. That way lies madness. That's why I go back to the idea of the music type advisory placed on the book at the discretion of the author. I know when my story pushes sexual buttons in genres that they usually don't exist. That was my whole point. When I write my action adventure or science fiction stuff, it doesn't need a label. My criminal espionage does. As long as I choose and I put something on there that gives readers a heads up, everybody wins.
Does that make sense?
I don't have a problem with it. To me, it's pretty much the same as movie ratings.
http://bit.ly/16Ba5HY
Have fun.
Gamal