The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

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General Chat > Should Novels Come with Explicit Content Labels?

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message 1: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Would readers and authors benefit from a system similar to the one used for music, movies and television? I explore the question in my new essay.

http://bit.ly/16Ba5HY

Have fun.
Gamal


message 2: by Philip (new)

Philip (phenweb) | 218 comments I put a warning note in my book descriptions


message 3: by Anthony (new)

Anthony Cardenas (aecardenas) | 53 comments I actually put the following "Content Advisory" in the description for my book on Amazon's website:

Content Advisory: This book is intended for mature audiences and contains graphic violence, explicit sexual activity and disturbing imagery

I like the idea of a content advisory, not for censoring purposes, but to ensure that the right reader finds the right book. For me, it's a matter of putting the book in the right "category" so that the reader has a sense of what they are getting into and is totally on board with it. That's not to say I don't believe in "being surprised" (both pleasantly and unpleasantly) by a book, as a reader I enjoyed that kind of thing all the time. But as a writer selling my book, I do feel an odd sense of obligation in making sure that the people who purchase it know a little bit about the content, just so that they can make an informed buying decision. Also, I have kids, and so as a parent, it’s nice to have a quick way of identifying what they may or may not be reading.

But that's just me.


message 4: by Donna, Co-Moderator (new)

Donna | 2178 comments Mod
That's why some authors write under pseudonyms with a different one for differnt genres.

Cover art/design can give a clue too especially for childrens books but when you get to the YA genre it can get pretty hard to judge the book by the cover. I'm sure many parents would appreciate a little guidence.


message 5: by C. (new)

C. I would love it if books had a content advisory!


message 6: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Philip wrote: "I put a warning note in my book descriptions"

Have you ever considered an explicit content label on your book cover? If you did, what made you decide against it?


message 7: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Donna wrote: "That's why some authors write under pseudonyms with a different one for differnt genres.

Cover art/design can give a clue too especially for childrens books but when you get to the YA genre it can..."


I don't have children, so I don't know how this dynamic works, but do parents know what books their children buy. If the kids have their own tablets or kindles can the parents still track the purchases?

Thanks in advance.
Gamal


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

As a parent, I would have liked this option on books that my kids wanted to read. Instead, if it looked iffy, I would read it first. Another thing that I did was create a bookshelf here on Goodreads for books that I have read that are okay for them to read. Now that they are in their teens, it doesn't really matter as much. Oh, we all read regular books, not ebooks, if that matters.


message 9: by R.M.F. (new)

R.M.F. Brown A lot of people are killed in the Bible, but I've yet to see any content warnings on the front cover! :)


message 10: by Jonah (new)

Jonah Gibson (aimlessjonah) | 11 comments Certain of my family won't read my book because it has strong language, violence, and a psycho-sexual serial killer. To be fair, these are the same family members who home-school their kids and wouldn't let them read Harry Potter because of the 'witchcraft'. I told them what they could expect from my book, knowing that they would opt to not read it. Better than than surprising them with stuff I knew they would find offensive. Accurate labeling is, IMHO, a good thing. That said, when I published thru Smashwords, I clicked the adult content button. That turned out to be a bad idea because the Smashwords site defaults to adult content filter 'on', so when people went looking for my book they couldn't find it until they turned the filter 'off'. I rethought my position a little, deciding in the end that I hadn't really written adult content. There is certainly a lot of stuff available that is a lot more graphic and explicit than what I wrote. I unclicked the 'adult content' box, just so people could find my book. In the end, I think it would be useful to readers to have some sort of assessment as to what they can expect to find in a book before they buy it. It's just fair. Even so, there will always be a fine line between what is offensive and what is okay for some people. I read just the other day about a preacher who plans to burn copies of the Bible because he thinks any translation other than the King James is satanic. Just goes to show you can't please everybody.


message 11: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Jonah wrote: "Certain of my family won't read my book because it has strong language, violence, and a psycho-sexual serial killer. To be fair, these are the same family members who home-school their kids and wou..."

Do you think it would have been better to just put an explicit content label on your book cover instead of clicking adult content?


message 12: by Philip (new)

Philip (phenweb) | 218 comments Gamal wrote: "Philip wrote: "I put a warning note in my book descriptions"

Have you ever considered an explicit content label on your book cover? If you did, what made you decide against it?"


No not on the cover, not that I sell many if any printed copies. I'm not sure about labelling it smacks of censorship. If there are labels do all the warning ones then get put on the top shelf and then in sealed paper bags?


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

R.M.F wrote: "A lot of people are killed in the Bible, but I've yet to see any content warnings on the front cover! :)"

We have never really been concerned about the kids reading violent books, just didn't want them to read about explicit sex at a young age. I keep those for myself!


message 14: by Carrie (new)

Carrie Rubin (carrierubin) Donna wrote: "when you get to the YA genre it can get pretty hard to judge the book by the cover."

I agree. It would be nice to have a little guidance when my 13 year old asks if he can read a particular novel. I've browsed through some YA books, and I wouldn't want him reading some of the content yet.


message 15: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Philip wrote: "Gamal wrote: "Philip wrote: "I put a warning note in my book descriptions"

Have you ever considered an explicit content label on your book cover? If you did, what made you decide against it?"

No ..."


Maybe, I don't think about the printed book very much in my analysis. 98.5% of all my sales are online, so that's where I focus most of my concern. I feel like if I only put an advisory in the blurb, people may or may not see it. If I rely on them to read the sample, they might be surprised and offended on the first page. I've come to the conclusion that the more warning I give, the better off everyone will be. I'm weaving explicit sexual themes inside a genre not known for its sexual content so I feel like I have to go a little farther with my warnings.

Does that make sense?


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

Carrie wrote: "Donna wrote: "when you get to the YA genre it can get pretty hard to judge the book by the cover."

I agree. It would be nice to have a little guidance when my 13 year old asks if he can read a par..."


There was one book that my daughter really wanted to read but it had a couple pages with a sexual encounter, so I just taped them completely together and let her read the rest. Worked out great.


message 17: by Carrie (new)

Carrie Rubin (carrierubin) Kathryn wrote: There was one book that my daughter really wanted to read but it had a couple pages with a sexual encounter, so I just taped them completely together and let her read the rest. Worked out great."

Great idea. :)


message 18: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 103 comments Kathryn wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "A lot of people are killed in the Bible, but I've yet to see any content warnings on the front cover! :)"

We have never really been concerned about the kids reading violent books, just didn't want them to read about explicit sex at a young age. I keep those for myself!"


Why are you 'not really concerned' about children reading violent books?


message 19: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 103 comments Gamal wrote: "I'm weaving explicit sexual themes inside a genre not known for its sexual content so I feel like I have to go a little farther with my warnings.

Does that make sense?"


That makes sense, because people might not expect it.

I write a suspense fiction series about an assassin. It's for mature audiences, so I don't put a disclaimer on the book about the content.


message 20: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Exactly. I wouldn't put an explicit content sticker on an erotic novel because it's redundant. I would put an explicit content stick on a thriller with several sex scenes because the conventions of the genre doesn't include explicit sex. When the story breaks with convention that way, it makes sense to me to give people a heads up.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Hi Carrie - I'll try to say this without coming across as rude, so please excuse me if I do and let me know...

You said there are some YA things you wouldn't let your 13 year old read yet - could you tell me what they are, and what sorts of things they've already read?

I'm asking this because I'm a 12 year old, and I've found that a lot of books when skimmed through can seem a lot more violent or sexual in nature from a few lines - you'd be surprised how your son talks at school and what friends he has, I imagine...


message 22: by Carrie (new)

Carrie Rubin (carrierubin) You are right, @Josiah, he has likely heard plenty at school. But I'd like to at least know what he's reading ahead of time, just as I make sure I know what's in a movie he wants to see (there are some great parent resources for that). It would be nice to do the same with books. That's part of a parent's job. Obviously, I don't feel the same is necessary for my nearly 17-year-old son. Thanks for your input. Nice to have your perspective!


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Martyn wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "A lot of people are killed in the Bible, but I've yet to see any content warnings on the front cover! :)"

We have never really been concerned about the kids reading v..."


One series that my kids really liked when they were younger was the Maximum Ride series, which is rather violent, but I didn't think it was too much for them. It wasn't any different than what they see on tv. However, I wouldn't let them read adult books with violent killers. You do have to find a balance of what you can let them read as a parent, and something that they will actually want to read. They need to be reading something.


message 24: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 103 comments Kathryn wrote: "One series that my kids really liked when they were younger was the Maximum Ride series, which is rather violent, but I didn't think it was too much for them. It wasn't any different than what they see on tv. However, I wouldn't let them read adult books with violent killers. You do have to find a balance of what you can let them read as a parent, and something that they will actually want to read. They need to be reading something."

I have young children as well, but I'm just as much concerned about violence as sex. I'm Dutch, so my children read mostly Dutch books--I'm not familiar with the Maximum Ride books--but I have a problem with overly violent books. There is violence in my own suspense fiction books, but they are intended for a mature audience. I consider the (King James) Bible for mature audiences also.
Although I'm not a Christian myself, my wife is, so we try to raise our children in the spirit of Christianity. We were presented by her church with a Children's Bible, but while the language was simplified, the stories were not sanitized and the violence made the stories (in my opinion) unsuitable for young children.


message 25: by Ingrid (new)

Ingrid Druslan (IngridD) Should Novels Come with Explicit Content Labels?


My life should come with an explicit content label...


message 26: by Martyn (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 103 comments Ingrid wrote: "Should Novels Come with Explicit Content Labels?


My life should come with an explicit content label..."


Can I read it? :)


message 27: by Ingrid (new)

Ingrid Druslan (IngridD) Martyn wrote: "Ingrid wrote: "Should Novels Come with Explicit Content Labels?


My life should come with an explicit content label..."

Can I read it? :)"


My friends tell my I should write it. Starting with how I was kicked out of MOMA ...


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

Martyn wrote: "Kathryn wrote: "One series that my kids really liked when they were younger was the Maximum Ride series, which is rather violent, but I didn't think it was too much for them. It wasn't any differen..."

The Maximum Ride series is by James Patterson is intended for young and old, but I would say more so for the younger. It does carry with it some violence but my kids grew up watching Hercules and Xena, those types of shows, and I would put that series of books in the same category. It is fantasy and the kids understood that at the time. My 16 yr old daughter has moved on to more adult books but my 13 yr old is easily distracted and bored by adult books, so he sticks with the Percy Jackson type books.


message 29: by Diana (new)

Diana Gotsch | 64 comments Most people read for enjoyment. If they are uncomfortable with a high level of violence or sexual content. Warning them that this might not be a book for them seems like a good idea. This is really true when an author changes style or genre. I've known people to reject a book because they had tried another by that author they were unhappy with.


message 30: by Gamal (new)

Gamal Hennessy | 154 comments Diana wrote: "Most people read for enjoyment. If they are uncomfortable with a high level of violence or sexual content. Warning them that this might not be a book for them seems like a good idea. This is really..."

I agree with you Diana. I also think that if the author is going to add content that isn't usually found in that genre it makes even more sense to give potential readers a little heads up. People have certain expectations when they read a certain genre. If you're going to write off the beaten path, it helps to put up a sign first.


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

Carrie - sorry, slightly late to reply - yes, that makes sense - I imagine a quick google search on what content is in a book might help sometimes?


message 32: by Martyn (last edited Nov 11, 2013 01:18AM) (new)

Martyn Halm (amsterdamassassinseries) | 103 comments Josiah wrote: "I imagine a quick google search on what content is in a book might help sometimes?"

Josiah, the problem with Google searches is that readers have to take an extra step. It's hard enough to get people to click your cover and read your blurb and get them to buy the book.

I recently suggested to some disgruntled readers who complained about formatting in self-published books, that they should download a sample... I always check the first few pages of a book, not just to check for formatting/editing errors, but also to check if the author's style appeals to me.

I got vehement protests on my suggestion of reading a sample, because "a published book ought to be finished and polished". And I can understand the sentiment.

Furthermore, these readers/reviewers commented that often the sample is well-edited/formatted, but the crappy formatting comes further along in the book. And if that happens, I think a reviewer is fully justified to pan the book as an amateur exercise at publishing.

I'm currently reading a book that has severe editing and formatting issues in the last quarter of the book: passages are struck through or underlined, punctuation gone haywire. I PM'd the author, because I'd rather provide the author with feedback than give a negative review. Still, had I read the comments on the book here on GoodReads, I might not have downloaded the book at all. And the crappy formatting is a shame, because with some firm proofreading, the story could be engaging.


message 33: by Orion (new)

Orion Pax | 1 comments but you forget while content lables can warn parents about sex and violence in books, it can also lure curious young people

i remember when i was a young teen, curious about the "adult conspiracy" i would scan the HBO guide movie list searching for R rated movies with "S" sexual content and "N" nudity in the content descriptions and record those late night movies to watch when my parent was not home


message 34: by Skye (new)

Skye | 2105 comments This is a good question and one that interests me: on the other hand, poor editing is simply bad taste and needs to be fixed. I wonder if contacting the author is better than giving a bad review, although when you depend on a public forum for marketing purposes, you are basically handing over the rights to the readers.


message 35: by Nancy, Co-Moderator (new)

Nancy Oakes (quinnsmom) | 10113 comments Mod
R.M.F wrote: "A lot of people are killed in the Bible, but I've yet to see any content warnings on the front cover! :)"

There's also a lot of adult content in the Bible.


message 36: by Skye (new)

Skye | 2105 comments Wonderfully written, Nancy


message 37: by Rowena (new)

Rowena Hoseason | 90 comments We had exactly these concerns with my husband’s series of short stories and novels. They are graphic, violent and sexual – as well as whimsical, philosophical and witty (we hope!) – and we would not want anyone to be offended by encountering this kind of material when they weren’t expecting it.

Hence on the short stories – which we publish ourselves via KDP – we’ve made sure there’s a clear content warning, up front and very visible. it *might* attract kids seeking thrills, but I suspect they are just as likely to grab 50 Shades, or watch Hannibal, Spartacus, etc, which are much more accessible.

However, the publisher of the full-length novel opted *not* to put a content warning on. Their cover blurb initially didn’t mention the more… explicit subjects of the book’s contents. We had to steer them to include these, to make sure that no one picked up the book expecting a nice cosy murder-mystery and getting Dragon Tattoo instead.

What always surprises and confuses me is that crime / thriller / noir novels can be bloodily and explicitly violent to extremes (far further than my fella has gone: his stuff is no more hardcore than Dragon Tattoo or Walter Mosley). BUT people tend to be *much* more sensitive to sexual references. often it seems it’s ok to write about unnatural acts: serial killers and multiple murder… but describing the entirely natural act of love is a step too far!


message 38: by Nancy, Co-Moderator (last edited Oct 03, 2014 02:29AM) (new)

Nancy Oakes (quinnsmom) | 10113 comments Mod
We were talking about this sort of thing in our buddy reads thread - about how some authors seem to go over the top when it comes to graphic violence. In our book there was also necrophilia. I think there were many more scenes of violence in the book than actual plot material -- but then again, a lot of people like that sort of thing.


message 39: by Skye (new)

Skye | 2105 comments I am truly ambivalent to this issue; I can see both sides. I was truly surprised when I read The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but it didn't stop me reading; in fact, I adored the novel. Same with In the Cut, but it was a wonderful novel, but then again, I know when too much is too much for me, and when it comes to freedom of speech and the press, I am all for the First Amendment.


message 40: by Tom (new)

Tom | 141 comments I could see if it was an assigned book in high school or college there might be a need for 'trigger' warnings (although I personally don't want them). Not on books I buy, that is my choice and I want NO spoilers.


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