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[Ruth]

Newengland wrote: "I don't take any pain relievers. Too damn stubborn."

I don't either, unless I really, really need to. Of the two I'm allowed, Tylenol does nothing, and Vicodin untethers my head.

[Ken, Moderator]

Vicodin is dangerous stuff. Everything I've heard about it has been bad.

[Ruth]

It's wonderful if you are really, really hurting. But I don't like to take it unless I'm in misery, like when I had a frozen shoulder. But I don't like the way it dopes me up.

[Jane]

I took it after I broke my right ankle several years ago for several days during recuperation at home, but got off it as soon as I could. I had prescription for it when I broke left leg 2 years later, but muddled through without taking any. Vicodin frightens me.

[Ken, Moderator]

My father had it after surgery and I swear it made him hallucinatory.

[Ken, Moderator]

Oh. Grammar thread. I suppose we should be Vico-dining in the Kitchen Sink thread....

[Mark]

Vico was the guy behind the cyclical theory of history... or was that the "word association" thread? They can probably hear the Vico-din from here, though.

[Mark]

Who was, by the way, the guy who, who was behind the cyclical theory of history was, was Vico.

[Sarah]

Vico was the guy who was what?

[Mark]

S. wrote: "Vico was the guy who was what?"

Grammatically very deeply right-embedded. It's why English isn't a context-free language. You can make these sentences arbitrarily long, and they're grammatical, but no one can understand them.

As for Vico, himself, though:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giamba...

[Kelly (Maybedog)]

Mark wrote: "You really have to be careful about the dosage. The COX-2 inhibitors are all much more dangerous, though, so I guess you really are stuck with Tylenol. Sorry to have joked about it.
"

Oh, I liked the joking! Joking is fun!

I'm not sure why people in our society think it's weak to take pain relievers. As long as you're not abusing them, I don't get the problem. I use one bottle of 30 Vicodin a year for when I've taken too much migraine medicine. (You shouldn't take it more than once a week, twice max, so if I have one that lasts four days, I'm screwed.) I'm careful not to take too much because it's more addictive than heroin. But I have no reason to suffer a migraine more than a couple of days. I'm unproductive, grouchy, ill, and not there for my family. I don't medicate at the drop of a hat, I try preventative and healthy remedies first, but I don't think it makes you weak if you need it sometimes. I"m not really talking about myself. I'm a total baby when it comes to any pain other than head pain. :)

[Ruth]

I agree, Kelly. And Vicodin is wonderful when you're really hurting. But I still don't like the way it muddles up my head so only take it when my back's to the wall. I used to get migraines, but Vicodin didn't help with them.

[Kelly (Maybedog)]

I agree, Ruth. Vicodin doesn't necessarily take away all the pain, it just takes away some and makes me not care that I'm still in pain. ;) oo, that sounds like an addict talking. I'd be worried except that I, like you, don't like it unless it's the alternative to agony.

[Caroline]

I hope you don't mind me changing the subject...but I have a question.

Quite often I start sentences with eg, like "eg they prefer to use pink rather than purple hens" and I am never sure how to type eg at the beginning of a sentence. Should I start with a capital - Eg - or should it all be lower case...eg. The first seems correct, but looks very strange to me.

Ha ha, please don't tell me that I shouldn't be starting sentences with eg - capital or no capital...I am very fond of doing it :-/

[Pip]

@Caroline: It's not so much that I think you shouldn't do it as I'm wondering how you can do it! How can you give an example if you haven't provided the generalisation first? If you were writing in note form, maybe - but otherwise it seems very strange. Any road up, if it is at the start of a sentence, I would capitalise the first E. It can be written e.g., eg, or eg.. Or in your case E.g., Eg, or Eg.. Hope that helps!

[Caroline]

Hederahelix wrote: "@Caroline: It's not so much that I think you shouldn't do it as I'm wondering how you can do it! How can you give an example if you haven't provided the generalisation first? If you were writing in..."

Thank you very much indeed Hederahelix! I am awful with sentences. I often begin them with things they should never be started with, and I suspect I am too old to change that now. Thank you for being so helpful in spite of my cruddy grammar.

[Jane]

I don't know whether this is the correct way to do it, but what I do is write my sentence, then write ,
e.g. [which is a Latin abbreviation "exempli gratia" so should have a period after each letter], then give the example.

[Caroline]

Jane wrote: "I don't know whether this is the correct way to do it, but what I do is write my sentence, then write ,
e.g. [which is a Latin abbreviation "exempli gratia" so should have a period after each lette..."

I think if 'e.g.' is a continuation of the sentence that would be fine. Thank you for explaining about the periods :-)

[Drora]

In my tender years, a few decades ago and in two foreign languages, I was taught the punctuation sign ?!, which denoted a question to which there is an obvious answer ("Is the Pope Jewish?!" comes to mind) and which, in many cases, may happily replace the unsupportable smiley. However, I have not seen any trace of this sign in many years now. Has it ever existed in English? Have I ever seen it or was it part of a happy dream?(!)

[Carol]

You will have to wait for the English Gods to answer, but I wanted you to know there are people who woud like to know also.

[Mark]

Drora wrote: "In my tender years, a few decades ago and in two foreign languages, I was taught the punctuation sign ?!, which denoted a question to which there is an obvious answer ("Is the Pope Jewish?!" comes..."

It's called an "interrobang," and it still exists, though there's some dispute as to whether the English language still does.

[Caroline]

I do enjoy this thread.....

[Carol]

Mark wrote: "Drora wrote: "In my tender years, a few decades ago and in two foreign languages, I was taught the punctuation sign ?!, which denoted a question to which there is an obvious answer ("Is the Pope Je..."

Hee hee

[Kelly (Maybedog)]

Caroline wrote: "...It's called an "interrobang," and it still exists, though there's some dispute as to whether the English language still does. "

I use and see it all the time to mean an exclamatory question such as, "You did what?!" or "You disagree with my political views? Are you insane?!"

Is that wrong then?

Caroline wrote: "Jane wrote: "I don't know whether this is the correct way to do it, but what I do is write my sentence, then write ,
e.g. [which is a Latin abbreviation "exempli gratia" so should have a period aft..."

Be sure to use a comma after the e.g. For example, "I like dogs, e.g., poodles, malamutes, and all mixed breeds." It means "for example" which has a comma after it.

[Mark]

Kelly Maybedog wrote: "Caroline wrote: "...It's called an "interrobang," and it still exists, though there's some dispute as to whether the English language still does. "

I use and see it all the time to mean an exclama..."

No, I think your usage is fine and exemplary, and well within the ambit of the intended application of the "interrobang."

[Caroline]

Kelly Maybedog wrote:"Be sure to use a comma after the e.g. For example, "I like dogs, e.g., poodles, malamutes, and all mixed breeds." It means "for example" which has a comma after it.
..."

Thank you! I think I shall be using 'e.g.,' with much greater decorum in future....

[Kelly (Maybedog)]

Mark wrote: "No, I think your usage is fine and exemplary, and well within the ambit of the intended application of the 'interrobang.'"

**Snicker** I love that sentence.

Caroline wrote: "Thank you! I think I shall be using 'e.g.,' with much greater decorum in future...."

That one, too. :)

[Leiah]

Something has been driving me crazy. "...ed"

Yes, that particular word ending. Here is an example:

"Cowle shined the light into the cargo hold to reveal the contents locked within."

Come on - SHINED? What ever happened to good old "shone"? This sort of thing is all over everything I have been reading! Have I fallen behind the proper grammar freight train, or is "ed" the way to go now, no matter that it sets my teeth on edge every time I see a word ended in "ed"? In my old-timey notion of the language, Shone is the past participle of Shine.

Perhaps shined and shone are not the best example, as my research shows that there is a great deal of controversy over the issue, however, the "ed" issue comes up a lot for me, and drives me right up the proverbial wall.

Can someone clarify for me? Am I just put out because the word sounds so ugly in the context in which it is used? Another one was "The sun shined down on her . . . " frustrating. I do a lot of my work by "ear". If it doesn't sound right to my ear, I go look it up. But in this case, old brother ed seems to be kicking my backside! I thought Shone was the proper English for the act of shining, be it reflective or emitted and shined only correct in describing the act of polishing something so that it becomes shiny, and even then is questionable as a true word in proper English. Help?

[Jane]

I'm with you, but it seems much English is being simplified these days, in this case, changing an Ablaut form to the simple regular past. I can't give you any definite reference, but that's my feeling.

[Ken, Moderator]

Bryan Garner says it is a transitive-intransitive issue: shined for transitive purposes ("he shined his shoes") and shone for intransitive ones ("the sun shone...).