Far From the Madding Crowd

[Andrea]

So many interesting comments since I last checked the thread. I will say that Hardy did his best to make Troy despicable, for example:

He spoke fluently and unceasingly. He could in this way be one thing and seem another: for instance, he could speak of love and think of dinner; call on the husband and look at the wife; be eager to pay and intend to owe.

[...]Troy's deformities lay deep down from a woman's vision, whilst his embellishments were upon the very surface; thus contrasting with homely Oak, whose defects were patent to the blindest, and whose virtues were as metals in a mine.

And yet, for all his slick and objectionable self-interest, his feelings for Fanny (too late and too little to be sure) did show him to more complex than Hardy would have us think.

Personally, I preferred TMOC (darker and more intense)to FFTMC, which was a tad too pastoral for my tastes.

[Ann D]

Thanks for supplying those quotes, Andrea. They leave no doubt what Hardy thought about the character! He was a pretty boy who was steeped in hypocrisy. I love that line "he could speak of love and think of dinner."

As you pointed out, the only hint of real humanity came at the very end. He at least wanted to give Fanny money, although that could have been to keep her quiet. The mourning did seem genuine; at least he could feel guilt.

I found myself rooting for the mayor sometimes in TMOC, but I never felt that way about Troy.

[Jane]

Andrea wrote: "So many interesting comments since I last checked the thread. I will say that Hardy did his best to make Troy despicable, for example:

He spoke fluently and unceasingly. He could in this way be ..."

I'm sorry i don't agree; Hardy probably meant us to feel Troy was complex and not all bad, but he just repulsed me and his actions towards the dead Fanny I felt were hypocritical.

[Barbara]

His extreme reaction to Fanny's death did surprise me. But, I like characters who are not one dimensional villains so I liked that Hardy wrote in that bit of complexity.

Ann, I haven't read Tomalin's biography of Hardy, but it's on my towering list. I really liked the book she wrote about Jane Austen and I've read a list of her collected essays which were excellent. You've made me interested in the Pepys one now, as well.

[Ann D]

The Pepys biography is excellent. He is such a fascinating man and Tomalin does a great job with him.

I might be more interested in the Hardy biography now that I have read two more of his books.

[Kenneth P.]

Jane wrote, But would you say Hardy was trying to contrast the two--Oak and Troy as being at opposite ends of the spectrum?

Hardy created Troy to be the whipping boy, to be the anti-Oak. He wasn't blessed with Oak's cool, Oak's emotional stolidity. He was the typical man's man. He was a flashy military officer who could dazzle on horseback with eye-popping swordplay. You didn't mess with Troy because he was the man. But he loved Fanny Robin deeply. It was not fake. Foolish male pride prevented him from taking her hand that day at the church. He was an asshole, no question, but he loved and he grieved. After losing the love of his life he lived on as an emotional cripple. He made an unfortunate alliance with a loser and made stupid choices. But it didn't matter because he was dead inside. Dontcha get it? After Fanny's passing he was in pain. Oak and Batsheba had a future.

Seargent Troy died a martyr.

[Ann D]

A MARTYR!! Now that may be going a bit too far :-), but you made me laugh and you have made a good case for Troy.

Not so sure he was a "man's man." I would have categorized him more as a "woman's man." He was definitely a good foil to Oak.

Strong and steady won the race for Bathsheba - not some good looking sweet talker. That's the good thing about being an author. You can let the good guy win.

[Robert]

Hi everyone! I finished this yesterday and really enjoyed it. It had a quality of mellifluous melodrama, beautiful language manifesting various Snidely Whiplash scenarios occasionally achieving memorable poetic power. I liked the scene, early on, where an unnamed Fanny Robin visited Sergeant Troy’s barracks in a wintery blur that was like a disturbing dream. Since I’m a hopeless anglophile I liked the descriptions of the picturesque English countryside in their seasonal settings; so, I just indulged my fantasies and the visuals played deliciously in my imagination.
I enjoyed Hardy’s apt metaphors and similes throughout. I also got annoyed, however, with his epigrams and grand pronouncements of human behavior, even though many of them were articulate and insightful. Here’s one of my own: epigrams are like names, drop them sparingly for full effect.
Hardy’s coincidences are ridiculous, but then so is movie reality which I somehow excuse as efficient storytelling while I’m watching. So, why not accept that Oak happened to fall asleep in just the right wagon and ended up at Bathsheba’s farm, or that Bathsheba was the center-seated audience member of her husband’s circus performance, and everyone overheard just the right sentence, and on and on. I enjoyed it anyway. I agree that this is a classic story and see how it could be in the Guardian’s top ten love stories. Two people who love and deserve each other and get to live life together is still the ultimate gift in my book, so, I’m a sucker for this ending, big time, and getting there was a great ride.

Robt

[Kenneth P.]

Well said Robert! Ann, I'm just trying to keep things lively.

[Jane]

Kenneth P. wrote: "Jane wrote, But would you say Hardy was trying to contrast the two--Oak and Troy as being at opposite ends of the spectrum?

Hardy created Troy to be the whipping boy, to be the anti-Oak. He wasn'..."

A lot of your argument sounds logical, Troy as the 'foil to Oak'. Martyr--oh, come on!!! I still think the guy was a hypocrite. But, young, impressionable girls go for the glamor and the glitz and the surface charm with nothing beneath...

[Sherry, Doyenne]

Robert wrote: "Hi everyone! I finished this yesterday and really enjoyed it. It had a quality of mellifluous melodrama, beautiful language manifesting various Snidely Whiplash scenarios occasionally achieving m..."

I didn't read this, Robt, but it is so nice to see you here!

[Ann D]

Robert,
How nice to see an old friend here!

Excellent comments. I especially enjoyed your observation that we accept all kinds of coincidences in movies as a necessity for efficient story telling, so why not in this old-fashioned novel. I wonder if the extensive use of coincidences isn't almost required in long, plot driven novels.

Also, your comments about the love story are right on. Bathsheba learned some hard lessons along the way but picked the right man in the end.

I am really looking froward to the new movie based on this novel which will be released in 2014. It stars Carey Mulligan and Michael Sheen - two of my favorites.

[Barbara]

Robt, I am delighted to see you here too! Welcome back.

I love Hardy's descriptions of the countryside too. Sometimes they are a little lengthy but so beautiful that I drift through them happily. Since I discovered that he was trained as an architect, I also pay a closer attention to his descriptions of buildings as well. There are frequent architectural nuggets.

Ken, that was an interesting defense of Troy! I know you were doing it a bit tongue in cheek but there is some truth there as well. Even though I'm sure Hardy meant him to be perceived as a rogue, he did write in some humanity. It has occurred to me that hypermasculine types like Troy are less well-liked by us literary types. I wonder if that was less true when Hardy published this.

[Andrea]

Jane wrote: But, young, impressionable girls go for the glamor and the glitz and the surface charm with nothing beneath...
Of course they do, and why on earth not? Just like young (and not so young) men. Speaking of which, I didn't see too many of them going for the homely, solid, past-her-prime-yet-still-hoping lass (sorry, forgotten her name and haven't got my book handy)) who was pining for a partner!

Of course most readers loathe Troy(for good reason)and I don't argue with that! I suppose I'm being the devil's advocate, or like Kenneth, trying to keep things lively. ;-)
That said, I do tend to find a few kernels of redeeming qualities in even the most unappealing characters and vice versa- those inevitable blurry areas are so much more interesting than clear-cut distinctions between good and bad, IMO.

I

[Robert]

Thank you for such a warm welcome. I feel guilty for being absent for so long from many friends.
I love the names: Boldwood, Troy, Bathsheba, Gabriel Oak. These names are as blatant as Mr. Bumble.
Boldwood: hard as wood, not the hard wood that makes you titter, rather the solid and immutable man who is boldly himself. Like Mt. Rushmore. It would cause an earthquake for him to crack a smile. This guy is set. Honorable, though. I find it interesting that Boldwood fit so well into the Victorian culture. He did everything he was supposed to as a gentleman farmer. If you complied within the strict social guidelines, like Boldwood was able to do, then you could act as odious as you like. No one said boo.
I see Boldwood looking a little like Lurch. Handsome in this ghoulish way. Getting him to notice Bathsheba was like turning around the Titanic. It’s like, if you held his head right at her, eventually his black eyes would refocus until she came into his sight range. Not a light-on-your-feet guy. And then when he fell in love with her, he fell in love with his idea of her. Talk about in your head. I liked the part where Boldwood prepared for his Christmas party with this unnatural energy and set everyone on edge. And then his fingers fairly twitched at the sight of her.
Troy: I think of the ancient city of Troy where the big symbol was the Trojan Horse which invaded by deception. War, disaster, ruin. Not a comedy, however, he was literally a circus act. Flashy entertainment designed to wow you, but don’t be disappointed on the second night if it’s the same show. The encounter in the fern-filled setting, where Troy swooped his razor-sharp sword within a half an inch of Bathsheba on every side—that surely gave her a rush. And the guy was hot, let’s face it. A young, athletic, handsome guy in a smart uniform. It was not visually apparent that Troy was so inept that he would incapacitate all the workmen when they were needed to rescue everyone’s annual income. Not your ideal business partner. And he was so cruel to Boldwood. Not one tear will be shed, coast to coast, when Boldwood shoots Troy in the 2014 movie version. It’s much more “take that, you worm!” Like King Kong vs. Godzilla, the monsters neutralize each other.
Bathsheba: like the biblical temptress who was desirable and involved in a love triangle with casualties. I felt Hardy’s social commentary had to do with Bathsheba’s plight as a mismatched wife. The conventions were iron clad. She was stuck and it could have easily caused her an early death. I can see her throwing herself into a wheat thrasher or something if she had to live with Troy again. And wasn’t Troy sensitive to Bathsheba by erecting a monument to ‘the other woman’ and virtually inscribing his adulterous love in marble? Divorce was not much of an option for Bathsheba and perhaps Hardy thought it should have been. I certainly felt like it should have been. The stigma of divorce was a Victorian convention that would create heartache and ruin for them. I pick up a feminist vibe from Hardy. He doesn’t seem to idolize the constraints of Victorian propriety. He’s more sympathetic to the individual.
Gabriel Oak: a strong, towering angel rooted in the earth. Definitely the good guy. An unobtrusive treasure right under her nose dressed in the work-a-day world. He’s wise. He’s capable. He’s loyal. He’s totally fabulous, what are you waiting for, girl? Her eyes are smote to blindness by the Storyteller Godmother, who needs Gabriel to wait in the wings so we can have a novel here.
I like these nearly allegorical names; I’m cheesy like that. Superheros and animation have warped my brain. If something ultimate isn’t served up then it’s not big enough. So, I like the way Hardy has the characters anthropomorphize these larger-than-life names.

[Jane]

Robert wrote: "Thank you for such a warm welcome. I feel guilty for being absent for so long from many friends.
I love the names: Boldwood, Troy, Bathsheba, Gabriel Oak. These names are as blatant as Mr. Bumble...."

Yes, welcome back, Robert! Your interpretation of their names-as-metaphors was right-on!!!

[Dale]

Robt: I didn't read Mr. Hardy either, but it's great to see you here! Enjoyed your post, as well.

[Robert]

In the preface to the 1895 edition of Far From the Madding Crowd, Thomas Hardy noted that since the novel was first published, the rural way of life that the novel described had disappeared. The continuity of the tightly knit community had become disrupted from the employment of migratory farm workers who replaced the locals that had been there for many generations. Within two decades the thatched cottages which housed local farm hands had been torn down and so had the ancient malt house in Puddletown (the model for the town of Weatherbury.) It sounds like a contemporary phenomenon, doesn’t it?

[Ann D]

Robt,
Loved your commentary on the characters' names. You pointed out things I hadn't paid any attention to - Troy, a true model of deception like the famous wooden horse, Gabriel, as in the angel of that name, etc.

So true about Troy's monument to Fanny being the ultimate kick in the face to Bathsheba. I take back anything nice I said about him above.

You are so right about Bathsheba's options being extinguished by her bad marriage. Men controlled their wives persons and all of their property. Bathsheba had the one aunt whom she was living with at the beginning of the story, but society didn't countenance runaway wives. If Boldwood hadn't solved her little problem, her life would have ended in absolute misery.

I predict Boldwood will be more sympathetic in the movie than the book. So the audience will cheer when he disposes of the nefarious Troy, but will feel sad that Boldwood's own life ended with so little fulfillment. (Michael Sheen's performance will insure that).

On the other hand, he was getting along just fine until Bathsheba practically hit him on the head with that fateful valentine. It would have been far better if he had stayed "wood"en.