Classics and the Western Canon discussion
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Nov 18, 2010 05:49AM
Hi Marie. Welcome. We don't often do American literature, but as it happens, we are in the middle of a discussion about Huckleberry Finn. Feel free to dive in.
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Hi, thanks.Hmm I haven't read it yet, so I'll start reading straight away (luckily I have nothing to do today!) (go E-books!)
Marie wrote: "Hi, I am a junior conference interpreter who would like to expand her knowledge of English and American literature. I would like to start with the classics - usually everyone knows about them but..."
Welcome, Marie. You've come to the right place!
Hi everyone. I live in Argentina and teach English for a living. I am also studying literature at university, and I teach British and American literature at teacher training college. I have read many British and American classics, such as Moby Dick, Huck Finn, Portrait of a Lady and many others, but I still have a lot to get through, and would love to do it alongside other people, as it gives a sense of encouragement. I think it was Mark Twain who said that a classic is a book everybody would like to have read but doesn't want to read, and sometimes I feel that's true about myself. I'm wading through Ulysses now and finding it quite hard. But hopefully this group will help me overcome that feeling!
Hi Lauli. We are in the midst of a discussion of Huck Finn right now. Please feel free to browse the threads and jump right in.
Twain's quote: A classic is a book everybody claims to have read, but nobody has.
Twain's quote: A classic is a book everybody claims to have read, but nobody has.
Lauli wrote: "Hi everyone. I live in Argentina and teach English for a living. I am also studying literature at university, and I teach British and American literature at teacher training college. I have read ma..."Welcome! Ulysses, eh? You're braver than I am!
Lauli wrote: "Hi everyone. I live in Argentina and teach English for a living. I am also studying literature at university, and I teach British and American literature at teacher training college. I have read ma...""the harder you gruel with more grease to your elbow the merrier fumes your new Irish stew..."
--Finnegans Wake
Keep at it, Lauli, and have fun with it!
Lauli wrote: " ... I still have a lot to get through, and would love to do it alongside other people, as it gives a sense of encouragement. ..."
This group DEFINITELY gives that sense of encouragement! No way would I have stuck with "The Oresteia" without the group. Not that I didn't enjoy reading the three plays -- I did -- but I needed to constantly check the notes in the back of the book to understand what was going on, and so I doubt I would have stuck it out on my own when there are so many other great classics that are "easier" to read.
This group DEFINITELY gives that sense of encouragement! No way would I have stuck with "The Oresteia" without the group. Not that I didn't enjoy reading the three plays -- I did -- but I needed to constantly check the notes in the back of the book to understand what was going on, and so I doubt I would have stuck it out on my own when there are so many other great classics that are "easier" to read.
Thanks for the warm welcome and encouraging comments! Look forward to joining the discussions.
Hi Lauli, good to see you here! I think you'll really enjoy the discussion of Huck Finn.
Hello.I am a 36yo U.S. Army spouse and mother of two teenage daughters. We are currently stationed in Belgium. I have been a stay-at-home mom for 14 years, and I have recently returned to college (online) to finish my bachelor's degree. I'm majoring in English and history. My intent is to teach high school language arts or history.
I've always been a voracious and eclectic reader. I admit, I often reach for the brain candy of genre novels (romance, urban fantasy, sometimes science fiction), but I also have a love for the classics and critically acclaimed contemporary literature. I would love to increase my literary repertoire. Sadly, I haven't read many of the books I feel I should've read already! I'm hoping to correct this faux pas in upcoming years :-)
I see that you have all read some beauties in the past year. I can't wait to join you for these reads. I actually have Mark Twain's newly released autobiography sitting on my nightstand, waiting for me to read it. It would have been a perfect companion to this month's Huck Finn.
Currently, I am reading Ulysses for the first time for a literature class titled "The Modern Novel." What an incredibly amazing book! I'm blown away by Joyce's intricacy. I've also just completed Rasselas by Samuel Johnson, another book that surprised the heck out of me. I would love it if Candide were the club's next selection. My professor suggested that I read it as a companion to Rasselas.
Welcome April. There was some discussion about the Autobiography and I posted a couple of things about it on one of the threads. Even though you may not have read the novel, there are a number of shorter things posted too, and all are open for discussion. Feel free to jump in.
April wrote: "Hello...."Welcome, April. I'm delighted to find somebody else who has read Rasselas -- there aren't many of us these days!
You'll fit right in here. Pull up a chair, get yourself a cup of tea (we have fresh brewed Assam, Keemun, and Jasmine ready in minutes), and enjoy!
Oh good! Another vote for Candide! Welcome April.
Hello all,47 yo scientific writer from Oregon.
I usually try to intersperse classics among history, poetry, and "enrichment" (eg, art history, or other topics about which I know little). I especially like the ancient,renaissance, and enlightenment classics.
I would also vote for Candide (if a new member gets to vote :) I read it about a year ago, but don't think I got out of it what I should have and have been thinking about re-reading it.
Ken wrote: "Hello all,47 yo scientific writer from Oregon.
...
I would also vote for Candide (if a new member gets to vote :) I read it about a year ago, but don't think I got out of it what I should have and have been thinking about re-reading it."
Welcome! Too bad you weren't here when we were discussing whether to read Newton's Principia.
Certainly you get to vote, especially if you plan to read and join the discussion of your book if it wins. We're very much a read-and-discuss group, so look forward to your active participation.
Ha! Thanks.I think I would have voted "no" on Newton's Principia. I read way too much science already :-)
Hello all!My name is Sarah, and I am currently a freshman at a liberal arts college. I've always loved classics of all sorts: plays, novels, philosophy, history, and science--well okay, maybe not too much science. As my username suggests, I have a special warmth for the works of G. K. Chesterton.
I'll never forget the day I walked into my local public library, dreaming about how wonderful it would be if my personal collection of books was a little larger, and the head librarian walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to take home the Britannica Great Books of the Western World collection. (As soon as I recovered from my shock, I became a confirmed believer in fairy godmothers. ;) Apparently, the library wanted to make room for newer books, and I was given the collection because I was the only one who had ever had a fit because they weren't supposed to be taken out of the library--"decoration only." There were 11 volumes missing, but as my college student budget allows, I am slowly filling in the gaps.
Welcome, Sarah! You'll find some other Chesterton lovers here -- in fact, you'll find in our Interim Readings folder the discussion we had of his magnificent essay "A Piece of Chalk." Go check it out, and add any thoughts if you have them. As with all threads here, it remains open perpetually. How fortunate to get the GBWW -- and what an insane librarian to give away this unmatchable collection. I was finally able to buy myself a set when I got a small legacy from a distant relative in England I had never met but who died intestate so that his considerable estate trickled down even as far as me!
Thank you; I'll definitely check out that Chesterton thread, and possibly post a comment on it. Insane librarian is right, but all I can say is "Thank God for insane librarians!"
This sounds like an interesting place to lurk in. I’ve been reading the classics sporadically for fifty years. In the last couple of years as I am approaching retirement in about two years from, for lack of a better term, life as a peddler in the marketplace, I returned to a less than half finished reading list that a favorite literature professor (literary mentor?) Bernard Einbond (RIP) handed out to us about 1970 at Hunter College, which he whimsically called “A brief reading list for people desiring higher education”. The list is anything but brief and runs over the canon of Western liberal arts. It begins with Homer and ends with Thomas Mann. I am entering them in goodreads as I am reading, and time allows, and hope to join in any readings as appropriate.
Galicius wrote: "This sounds like an interesting place to lurk in..."It's an interesting place, for sure, but not to lurk in -- to participate in! I expect that most, if not all, of the works we read are on that Hunter College list. Certainly the Canterbury Tales must be, so you have the perfect chance to get to the list in good company and share your thoughts with other serious readers.
Welcome, and look forward to hearing from you soon. (BTW, I'm a bit ahead of you, having retired a few years ago, but with four grandchildren living next door, I don't have that much more reading time than I did when I was working!)
Hello, everyone. I am Jesse and I'm currently a full-time IT tech and part time grad student at New Mexico State University. I am two semesters away from a Masters of Art in Literature. I was born and lived the first thirty-two years of my life in Dallas; I've lived in Las Cruces, NM for the past eight years. I've already come across some great posts and I look forward to getting to know you all through the discussions. Although I will be starting classes again in mid-January, I am going to make a concerted effort to take part in the Canterbury Tales reading. It's a pleasure to meet you all.
Jesse wrote: "Hello, everyone. I am Jesse and I'm currently a full-time IT tech and part time grad student at New Mexico State University. I am two semesters away from a Masters of Art in Literature. I was bo..."Welcome, Jesse. Sounds as though you will fit right in. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you for the Canterbury Tales!
Hello! My name is Kerri, and unlike the majority of you, I do not have any kind of professional literary degree or official literature background. I do, however, have an incredible love of reading and enjoy most genres. If I were ever to go back to school, I would definitely look into a library science degree or something encompassing literature. Years ago I read a few heavy classics, like War and Peace, just to say I had read them. In recent years, I started reading classics because I wanted to know what people were referring to in so many of the modern day books I was reading. I have noticed lately that some of the stories I have read that I really enjoyed, and felt like I gained personal knowledge from, are beginning to escape me. I remember the basic storyline, the main message the author was portraying and my personal feelings, but very little else. I can't remember names of characters or any specifics. I loved Crime and Punishment and think about it quite often, but can't properly explain to you, or give exact testimony, as to "why" necessarily because I can't remember any specifics to support my feelings! My only real talent in life is that I am a fast reader, and because I have a problem putting a book down once I start it, I finish them pretty quickly, but never get a chance to really "dissect" or truly understand the different aspects, or underlying meanings, of the story.....I have been contemplating a way to remedy this problem and was hoping to find a group that discussed some of the classics in a more detailed fashion. I am hoping that by joining your group and discussing the finer parts of each story, I will gain more knowledge and increase my chances of retention!!!!! I was excited to see that you have discussions posted for Don Quixote, Middlemarch and Les Miserables as these are all books on my schedule for 2011. I've always been curious about the Canterbury Tales........this looks like a good time and place to tackle it.On a personal note....I am a married, 40-something, mother of 5, living in Omaha, Nebraska.
Kerri wrote: "Hello! My name is Kerri, and unlike the majority of you, I do not have any kind of professional literary degree or official literature background. I do, however, have an incredible love of readin..."Welcome, Kerri. Looks like you'll fit right in. You would be surprised how few of us here have any sort of literary degree or official background; we're mostly, like you, a bunch of people like you who enjoy reading and discussing classic books with good friends.
Greetings!Everyman directed me to this wonderful club, so here I am..! I am 55 years young and a World Lit/humanities Prof online and in a few f2f classes. I love reading but with working on my PhD I am not able to read as much as I would love to. I got turned onto classics in my first masters coursework and have not been disappointed. Love Don Quixote, Dickens "Dombey and Son" Theodore Dreiser's "An American Tragedy", Flaubert's "Madame Bovary", Tolstoy, Pushkin, DH Lawrence Sons and Lovers et al, W. Somerset Maugham's "Of Human Bondage"...and the French Enlightenment....Voltaire's Candide!
I look forward to being in the group. right now am reading Balzac Cousin Bette, Black Dogs by Ian Mcewan and Pillars of the Earth, as well as any and all books on my Thesis topic:" The Flaneur in Higher Ed on the Net" Baudelaire, Benjamin and others....!
Aley wrote: "Greetings!Everyman directed me to this wonderful club, so here I am..! I am 55 years young and a World Lit/humanities Prof online and in a few f2f classes. I love reading but with working on my P..."
Glad you made it here!
Hi everyone, My name is Jennifer, and I joined the group a day or so ago, but this is my first post here. I joined this group and another, and I'd like to thank Everyman for his welcome and invite over here. :)
I'm a 25, almost 26 year old Eighth Grade Language Arts teacher at an urban middle school and I adore my job and my kids. They can be a handful sometimes, but I'm never bored. While I love new young adult literature, I miss my college courses and have been looking for an excuse to read more classics. Especially those I have missed.
Currently I'm reading Lolita by Nabakov, and I have another stack of books to read. For anyone living in Connecticut, there is a great used bookstore called the Book Barn in Niantic that offers amazingly low prices on used books. I picked up a few classics the last time I went, and I'm thrilled to get started on my stack.
One last side note: I love The Odyssey, and my favorite translator is Robert Fagles. While shopping at the Book Barn, though, one of the employees argued that Fitzgerald is the best, so I will give him a try. :)
Jennifer wrote: "Hi everyone, My name is Jennifer, and I joined the group a day or so ago, but this is my first post here."
Glad to see you here!
I'm hoping that at some point this group will vote in the Odyssey, but it hasn't happened yet. If we do vote it in, you'll get a chance to check out Fitzgerald.
I agree with you on Fagles being a good translator; he and Mandlebaum are, in my view, the best of the more recent translators. But I also agree with your bookstore employee that Fitzgerald is better for sophisticated readers. He's a bit more challenging to read, but is the truest to the original Greek, and doesn't make as many compromises as modern translators who are more willing to make compromises to make their translations more pleasant for modern readers.
But I'm glad you didn't say you liked Lombardo! [g]
Kafkas wrote: "Hi everyone,my name is Gina and I'm a student of Comparative Literature, French and English in Germany. I'm currently spending a year in France before finishing my studies.
Reading is one of my gr..."
Welcome, Gina! You've certainly come to the right place to read, or re-read, the classics. I personally believe that with true classics, re-reading is key, since they are so rich that it takes several readings to get into the depths of the works. That's one of the marks of a classic -- that it rewards re-reading even more than first reading. Indeed, one of my favorite quotes is "any book worth reading is worth re-reading."
Glad to have you with us!
Hello everyone! I used to be a voracious reader all the way up until high school, and from then on only read what was required of me for English class. I've gotten back into reading now but realized that I've read too few classic works, and would like to remedy that. So that's why I've joined. Nice to meet you all! :)
ayanami wrote: "Hello everyone! I used to be a voracious reader all the way up until high school, and from then on only read what was required of me for English class. I've gotten back into reading now but realize..."Welcome. You've come to the right place!
Bill wrote: "Hi folks,I used to read a lot when I was a child and a young man, then my family happened and I had other, more important, priorities. Now, since I'm a recent 'empty-nester' and have found I don'..."
Welcome, Bill! Glad you found us, and look forward to your participation. We're closing in on the last few weeks of the Canterbury Tales, but it's a work that you can pick up in the middle fairly easily if you don't want to read all the way to where we are. Just read the tales under discussion and you'll be fine. (You should probably read the General Prologue, too.)
Or, you can wait until our next major read, Moby Dick.
Hi,My name is Jaime and I'm a high school English teacher (ok this thread is just sounding like AA for teachers and bibliophiles, which is both funny and endearing).
I'm in California and love it here (when it's not what I consider cold, which is pretty much anything below 80). I use parentheses excessively (I know it's a bad habit, lol). I'm an Oakland Raider fan and football is the only sport I watch. I rarely watch TV but there are a few crime shows I DVR and then watch once a month.
There's never really time for both reading and TV so obviously reading wins 9 times out of 10. I started reading very young and since I had a little tape and record player with all of my golden-spined Children's books I think I ended up teaching myself to read before I got to that place in school. My mom, of course, read to me as all of ours did, but I think listening to books over and over and following the text made a huge difference.
I read broadly and voraciously but I stay away from contemporary romance, science fiction, and fantasy generally. I do love contemporary literature though and learning about other cultures through that literature. I try to read outside of my comfort zone sometimes because I think that's how we grow as readers. I do have a thing for mysteries and thrillers but I consider them my junk food of reading. I love American Romanticism the most, but really anything realist or Victorian works for me, too. I prefer works that address lower and middle classes, which is why, I think, I dislike Jane Austen. However, my favorite plays ever are the Sophocles trilogy, which most people don't understand. I love bleak writing, I guess because that's when all the cards are on the table and the true humanity comes out. We are at our core the very best and very worst human nature has to offer and I prefer to see that which is real not an idealistic view of humanity. So I really don't have a specific reading taste. I like a wide range but usually whether memoir, mystery, classic or classical it usually has a somewhat depressing theme running through it's core in one way or another.
Welcome, Jamie! I have to disagree with you on Jane Austen -- I love her -- (though Madge is firmly in your corner). But I definitely agree with you about Sophocles's Theban plays (I don't like to call it a trilogy since that had a specific meaning in Greek drama as a set of three plays performed together, and his were all parts of independent trilogies performed in different years, but I agree that I'm a bit of a pendant about that), but I am firmly on your side in loving those plays (I translated and directed Antigone back when I was teaching high school). We discussed Oedipus Rex as the first work discussed in this group; you could go back into the earlier topics of this group and scan the comments there if you wanted to. When it comes to bleakness, and I realize also generally lower and middle classes, Hardy is another favorite author of mine. Is he also a favorite of yours?
Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Jamie! I have to disagree with you on Jane Austen -- I love her -- (though Madge is firmly in your corner). But I definitely agree with you about Sophocles's Theban plays (I don't like t..."I know, I rarely find someone who agrees with my Austen stance. I read Sophocles as a single edition in college and that's how it was taught, but they read as separate, so what you said makes a lot of sense. You know I really want to read Hardy and haven't yet, but *Tess and *Jude are both on my TBR list for this year. I have a feeling I'm going to really like him.
And yes I see the earlier topics but I'm afraid I'll be tempted to post all over the place, lol
Patrice wrote: "Jaime, you are not alone in your Austen stance! I know how lonely it can get. I also prefer to read about the average person, rather than the elite. That's one reason why I enjoy Dostoyevsky mor..."Yes, Crime and Punishment was one of my favorites and I could never get into Anna Kareina, maybe that's why.
I just might, then! And thank you :)
Hi, thanks for the invitation to the group. I swore I wasn't going to join another group but this one sounds very interesting to me, especially since the "canon" was a dirty word when I was in college. I love reading diverse authors but I feel like my education was somewhat limited due to the professors' stance on the canon. So now I've begun my own classics education and love it! Currently on a Dumas and Dickens roll. Looking forward to trying Moby-Dick or, The Whale with all of you.
Jaime wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Jamie! I have to disagree with you on Jane Austen -- I love her -- (though Madge is firmly in your corner). But I definitely agree with you about Sophocles's Theban play..."Ah a kindred spirit...I feel like a freak sometimes because I didn't LOVE Pride and Prejudice. I simply like it although I have to say that the A & E production with Colin Firth was wonderful.
I'm planning to reread both of the Hardy books that you are going to read, I gave them both 5 stars.
Patrice wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Jaime wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Jamie! I have to disagree with you on Jane Austen -- I love her -- (though Madge is firmly in your corner). But I definitely agree with ..."I got to college later in life, from '88 to '92. My undergrad degree is in English and there was real opposition to reading books from the canon from many of the professors. I did get to read some really great books however since William Kennedy (Ironweed)was one of the professors and Toni Morrison (.The Bluest Eye is one of my favorites) was an honorary English chair.
Dorothy Allison and Doris Lessing were, required but no Dickens, no Trollope, no Dostoyevsky, no Tolstoy, no Hardy...you get the picture
Bernadette wrote: "Jaime wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Jamie! I have to disagree with you on Jane Austen -- I love her -- (though Madge is firmly in your corner). But I definitely agree with you about Sophocles..."That's good to know about Hardy:). I love the darker side of things, which is really why I think I dislike Austen. However, I'm also not daydreaming about marriage or things like that either, so a whole book devoted to that topic is a big nod to me.
Bernadette wrote: "Patrice wrote: "Bernadette wrote: "Jaime wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Jamie! I have to disagree with you on Jane Austen -- I love her -- (though Madge is firmly in your corner). But I defini..."Ironically I had an older professor in one of my upper division classes and Pride and Prejudice was required.
Oh I so love Morrison. I wanted to take a Morrison seminar but they didn't have it in a way that would work with my schedule. I didn't like Jazz but Sula and The Bluest Eye are two of my all-time favorites. The last line of Sula, IMO is one of the best lines ever in literature. And by best I mean so eloquent and perfectly written conveying so much in just one sentence.
Jaime wrote: "And yes I see the earlier topics but I'm afraid I'll be tempted to post all over the place, lol"Feel free. There's never a bad time to discuss a classic!
Bernadette wrote: "Ah a kindred spirit...I feel like a freak sometimes because I didn't LOVE Pride and Prejudice. ..."P&P isn't my favorite Austen. I enjoy it, but it's also pretty sicky sweet at times. But I adore Emma; Austen does such a delightful job of kindly but pointed amusement at her cluelessness. And it has a nice helping of ordinary folks to go along with the upper class people. Mansfield Park is my second favorite; I find a lot of richness of characterization in it along with Austen's wonderful wit.
Bernadette wrote: "Dorothy Allison and Doris Lessing were, required but no Dickens, no Trollope, no Dostoyevsky, no Tolstoy, no Hardy...you get the picture"
And I'm betting also no Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Herodotus, Aquinas, Augustine, Dante, Milton, Wordsworth, etc. Did they even recognize that works from a guy called Shakespeare, or who called himself Shakespeare, were worth reading?
The funny thing is that Allison, Lessing, et. al. probably lapped up those authors when they were in school.
Everyman wrote: "Jaime wrote: "And yes I see the earlier topics but I'm afraid I'll be tempted to post all over the place, lol"Feel free. There's never a bad time to discuss a classic!"
Thank you, I may just read them in between reads and post since I've gotten two okay's on it and you've read some that I really want to read.
Mansfield Park I made it halfway through and it was okay but IMO there were way too many characters and they had various names she called them switching back and forth (I had a big post it I kept as a bookmark that I needed while I was reading just to keep the characters straight). I was hoping I'd like Persuasion as The Jane Austen Book club made it seem appealing, but alas no dice on the one. I'll have to give Emma a shot. I'm not against Austen, I just have an aversion to her work. But anything lovey dovey or romance I don't like, which I'm sure plays a huge role.
Jaime wrote: "EMansfield Park I made it halfway through and it was okay but IMO there were way too many characters and they had various names she called them switching back and forth (I had a big post it I kept as a bookmark that I needed while I was reading just to keep the characters straight)."I didn't have to do that for Masfield Park, but I have for other books, notably War and Peace -- WAY too many people running around for me to remember them all! And if Shakespeare didn't kindly provide a character list in each play, I might have had to do it for some of his history plays, too.
Jaime wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Jaime wrote: "And yes I see the earlier topics but I'm afraid I'll be tempted to post all over the place, lol"Feel free. There's never a bad time to discuss a classic!"
Thank y..."
I do that a lot, make little family trees for myself while I'm reading. It makes it easier with some books. I just read Queen Margot, or, Marguerite de Valois and there were several Henris so I needed it. As for your Austen stance, I'm in the same camp. I really got tired of the Bennett's quest for men (no hate mail Austen fans) though I know that this was one of the only options for women back then. The book really made me greatful to be born when I was... I just can't embroider that well!
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
Metamorphoses (other topics)Gilgamesh: A New Translation of the Ancient Epic (other topics)
The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
Ficciones (other topics)
Dracula (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Søren Kierkegaard (other topics)Dorothy L. Sayers (other topics)
John Ciardi (other topics)
Alexis de Tocqueville (other topics)
Dani Shapiro (other topics)
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