Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Introductions
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Please introduce yourself~
Kate wrote: "Hi I'm Kate. I have been reading fluff and my brain needs to be stretched. PL has been on my list of "must reads" for 20+ years, but every time I started it, I wanted to talk about it and bounc..."
Welcome, Kate! I've been enjoying your participation on the threads -- delighted to have you joining us.
PaNdORa (gökçe) wrote: "hi I am gökçe I am studying literature I am interested in myths , legends.As I believe that Literature is derived from myths.For example Look at Shakespeare's tragedies,you will see they are shadow..."Welcome to the group! Where and at what level are you studying literature? I certainly agree that much literature, especially older literature, is derived from, or at least relates to, what we today view as myths (though they may have seemed literal truth at the time). If you haven't yet read Ovid's Metamorphoses, you might want to put it on your reading list; a lot of later literature (and psychology) can be found there.
Welcome to Jan, David, and Bishop, and forgive me for not welcoming each of you individually. A grandmother rollerblading, eh, Jan? I'm impressed! But sorry about the broken arm. :( I have relations in Perth and for a long time had been wanting to go, but now I'm likely only to travel there in books, since my days of flying about are pretty much over. As to buying too many books, of course. Don't we all? And aren't grandchildren wonderful? I have four now living right next door, and they drag me away from my computer and reading frequently, but delightfully. (I haven't begun to list all my books here; it would take forever since I have amassed a quite sizable library over the decades. I've just put up a few, and should add a couple every day or so, but reading and posting are too enticing.
Delighted that you found us, Bishop. AP BritLit teacher and grad student -- you'll fit right in, if you can ever find the time to join the discussion, which I certainly hope you can do.
Australia, California, and then Wales -- what a great thing the Internet is to bring us all together here. Hay-on-Wye is another of those Meccas of bookloving that I have long hankered to visit, especially since I have to rely on second hand books for many of the purchases I want to make. To be surrounded by so many books in such a beautiful setting -- if I were inclined to envy, you would certainly be near the top of my list!
Like David, I'm new to Goodreads as well as to this group. I'm delighted to find both and look forward to enjoying the discussions. Over the years, I've read parts of the canon, but most of my reading has been skewed toward works from the 16th century onward. Being a teensy bit obsessive-compulsive, I wanted to read it chronologically and in context, but I also want to be able to discuss the works. I'll be doing both now: reading the selected books for this group in addition to the chronological sequence. (Along with some non-canon reading. Like many in this group, I keep half a dozen books going at once.)
I've begun Paradise Lost, but my next teaching session begins Tuesday and Milton's verse is too beautiful to rush through, so I'll catch up as I can.
Aranthe wrote: "Like David, I'm new to Goodreads as well as to this group. I'm delighted to find both and look forward to enjoying the discussions."Welcome, Aranthe. (Interesting name -- what's the derivation?)
You're right, Paradise Lost is a book to savor, not rush through, but I hope you can catch up with us soon and participate in the discussion.
What are you teaching?
Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Aranthe. (Interesting name -- what's the derivation?)"AFAIK, my head. It was the name I gave a storyteller character I created for a fiction thread on a local BBS in the very early 90s. I've used it as a screen name for years because it doesn't attract integer suffixes.
"What are you teaching?"
Web programming (specifically, PHP).
Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Aranthe. (Interesting name -- what's the derivation?)"
Aranthe: AFAIK, my head. It was the name I gave a storyteller character I created for a fiction thread on a local BBS in the very early 90s. I've used it as a screen name for years because it doesn't attract integer suffixes.
LOL. 317 is the number of my post office box. I have to use it all the time.
On the brighter side, I discovered last night that it would take a personal computer 11 years to crack my most frequently used password.
Aranthe: AFAIK, my head. It was the name I gave a storyteller character I created for a fiction thread on a local BBS in the very early 90s. I've used it as a screen name for years because it doesn't attract integer suffixes.
LOL. 317 is the number of my post office box. I have to use it all the time.
On the brighter side, I discovered last night that it would take a personal computer 11 years to crack my most frequently used password.
Zeke wrote: "On the brighter side, I discovered last night that it would take a personal computer 11 years to crack my most frequently used password. "Impressive! Passwords are a different animal: There, numbers and mixed case are your friends.
Good evening, everyone. I was very glad to receive an invitation to this group earlier today (thank you, Kate!), and have been having a blast reading through some of your discussions for the last couple of hours. I am a wife, mother, and young professional who LOVES to read, and I hope to spend some time lurking and listening in on your conversations, since I am not quite ready to plunge into Paradise Lost at this very moment.
Alina wrote: "Good evening, everyone. I was very glad to receive an invitation to this group earlier today (thank you, Kate!), and have been having a blast reading through some of your discussions for the last ..."Welcome, Alina. Don't lurk too long -- everyone is encouraged to participate in the discussions whatever their level of experience or however shy they might feel about sharing opinions. Come on in -- the water really IS fine!
BTW, I've just posted the poll for the next major book read, so check it out (click on the Polls link) and see which book you would be most excited to read. (None is not an acceptable answer! )
P.S. I would comment that we had several people who weren't at all sure they were up for Paradise Lost, but having decided to check it out anyhow have realized that it's wonderful and surprisingly accessible once you have spent an hour or so getting used to Milton's style. So don't count yourself out for PL; give it a try and see what you think.
Hey everyone. I've just joined. I'm a 26 y/o from Ireland. I'm unemployed and starting to read a lot more than I ever have before. Hoping to participate soon, though I can't start right away. Nice to meet ye :]
Thetta wrote: "Hey everyone. I've just joined. I'm a 26 y/o from Ireland. I'm unemployed and starting to read a lot more than I ever have before. Hoping to participate soon, though I can't start right away. Nice ..."Welcome! We'll be glad to hear from you when you get a chance to join in.
Hello!I'm Simone. I am 25, a student of English and writing among other things, and I like espresso. Aside from school and various writing projects, I have worked in mental health and studied psychology for about 5 years.
I read primarily fiction (love the magical realists and absurdists), language/linguistics stuff, and psychology related texts.
I am quite excited to join you all in reading the canon. I will begin reading with the group after Paradise Lost.
Nice to meet you!
Hi all,I'm Katherine. I'm 29, and Junior High teacher (grade 7 & 8 Language Arts and Social Studies) in Fort McMurray, Alberta. I read all kinds of stuff, lots of YA novels to give me ideas for class, some fluff, some classics, depending on my mood. Yesterday I read Animal farm again and a Twilight novella, so you can see I have varied tastes. Right now I'm on summer holidays so I'm reading piles. I am excited to get in on the discussions when you start a new piece.
Happy summer! Katherine
Welcome, Simone and Katherine! There's still time to get in on the Paradise Lost discussion, we're only half-way through the book, but if that doesn't work for you we'll look forward to your joining us in our next discussion. After PL we'll have a short "interim" read, and then move on to our next major discussion, which, depending on the results of the current poll (in the polls section) will be either the Oristeia or Tristam Shandy.
Hi all-I'm a nurse living in Vermont, USA. I'm in grad school to get my master's (one semester left before I'm a nurse practitioner), I'm an EMT and volunteer with a rescue squad, I play the fiddle, I knit, I write poetry, but more than anything else, I read avidly. I was looking for a group to discuss the classics with, as that is mainly what I read. When I saw y'all were reading Paradise Lost, I knew I had to join, because I'm in the midst of it as well!
S. Rosemary wrote: "Hi all-"Welcome! Sounds like you'll fit right in with us.
Thanks! I was extra tickled when I looked back and saw that I'd recently read two of the group's other recent picks. It's going to be a fun ride.
Welcome, Tony! You'll find a good dose of Northwest Washingtonians here -- in fact, both I and Laurel, the other moderator, are only a few dozen miles north of you.
Hey all,I recently created a "bucket list" of books that I want to read. A good number of them are Western classics. Somewhere in the compilation of my list (actually I am still adding to it) I stumbled across GoodReads and this group looked promising. So here I am :). I wish I had gotten here in time for Paradise Lost, and looking forward to the Oresteia (and beyond). It will really be nice to have a discussion group as I recently have been wading thru Dante. Pretty rough going, makes the Old Testament pretty easy by comparison. I am finding that the more I read the comprehension is coming better. When I started I would have to re-read to figure out what was being said.
Personal info: I am 46 years old male and happily married for 18 years. I have two sons both of which I am dangerously proud (ages 16 and 13). I currently work in tech support and have worked for over ten years as a programmer and a few years as a tester. I recently finished the first book on my "bucket list" which was Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time". Due to all the hype I was expecting better. The first 3/4 was OK, the final 1/4 was an absolute chore and boring.
I have studied quite a bit of Western Mythology - Greek, Roman, Norse - and also have enjoyed The Book of Five Rings from Japan and The Art of War from China. I love studying philosophy.
Welcome, Kevin! Sounds as though you'll fit right in. I'm sorry you missed Paradise Lost (though we're only just over half way through, so there's still time to catch up), but if not, we'll see you in Greece for the Oresteia.
Hello all,I'm 25, from Santo Domingo, D.R., I have a degree in Medicine, have been studying in Madrid for a year now, so I can do my residency in Spain.
I love to read, the classics in particular, my favorite book is Pride & Prejudice, this is the book that got me hook on reading, I was around 14 when I 1st read it, if lost count of how many times I've re-read it, I love it more each time. Mr. Darcy has petty much ruin the whole gender for me ;).
I will read practicly anything, my personal favorites are novels, I like poetry but prefer to read Spanish/Latin American poets. I enjoy YA books,and very recently have been venturing in a genera that I never thought I would read, you know all those predictable, fluff, might actually be loosing IQ points while reading, romance books, one of my BFs toll me to read one, and it was a fun read, not all books have to be food for the brain.
I'm currently reading Les Misérable and North and South, I'm going to check your discussion on Les Mis as I continue with it.
Welcome, Penny! Pride and Prejudice is also a favorite with many of us here. Sorry you weren't around for the Les Miserables discussion, but but hope to have you join us for future discussions.
Hello. Great group.I am in my 30's and convalescing at home in Penang. Reading is one of my great passions in life. I always felt that I never had enough time to read. Well, now I do and am doing my best to catch up on my list of to-read books.
I have read my share of books which I didn't like. Recently, I've been sticking to award-winning, award-nominated and classic books.
I used to be in a book club a few years ago. However, they hold meetings physically. As I am unable to do that now, I'm glad I am able to join this book club.
A warm HI to everyone!
Min wrote: "Hello. Great group.I am in my 30's and convalescing at home in Penang. Reading is one of my great passions in life. I always felt that I never had enough time to read. Well, now I do and am doing..."
Welcome! Glad you found us.
Penang, eh? Sounds as though you should be reading Kipling (yes, I know Malaysia isn't Burma, but still you're a lot closer to the Moulmein Pagoda than we are, and you're looking at the same sea) or perhaps Maugham. [g:]
Sorry to hear that you need to convalesce, but it sounds as though it will be our gain.
Thanks so much. I am still feeling my way around the site. So I hope I'm right in thinking the next read has not been decided and to say that I'm looking forward to knowing which book it will be!
Min wrote: "Thanks so much. I am still feeling my way around the site. So I hope I'm right in thinking the next read has not been decided and to say that I'm looking forward to knowing which book it will be!"
Actually, the next read has been decided -- it will be Aeschylus's Oresteia. We'll start reading that in mid September, so you have plenty of time to get a copy if you don't have one. (The Oresteia is the trilogy of three plays -- Agamemnon, The Libation Bearers, and The Eumenides, though some translations use slightly different titles.)
Between Paradise Lost and the Oresteia we will have a brief interim read, usually two weeks, sometimes three weeks, which will be announced at the time; it will always be something which can be read fairly quickly -- two or three hours at most, and usually much less -- and will always be something that's available on the Internet so you won't need to wait to go out and buy it if you don't already have it.
The interim reads serve as sort of "palate cleansers" between the major reads, plus they give time for people to start reading the next major selection if they want to so they don't have to start it before we finish the current discussion. I find that frustrating in many groups, where the major selections follow thick and fast and many posters give up on a discussion early so they can get to reading the next work to be ready when that discussion starts.
That's not to say that we don't take the interim reads seriously; as you can see in the posts on prior interim reads, they have generated some great discussions. But they do allow a break between the major reads while still keeping the group engaged.
Hi, my name is Lori and I'm from Oklahoma. I'm starting my masters in Public History in the fall. I love baseball, daisies, sunflowers, old movies and cooking Southern food in my apartment. Sipping a Coke over ice, rocking in my chair next to an open window and reading is probably my favorite activity. It's long been a goal of mine to read the classics, so this group was a godsend when I stumbled across it.I look forward to getting to know y'all better as I join in discussions on the classics.
I am friends with non-baseball folk. It's the Red Sox and Tampa Bay Rays fans I tend to tangle with. (But if I don't talk about baseball with them, they're typically tolerable)I wish I had stuff to say about PL but I punked out of reading it in Brit Lit I.
Lori wrote: "Hi, my name is Lori and I'm from Oklahoma. "Welcome, Lori. Delighted that you stumbled over us here. Too bad you didn't find us a few weeks ago; there are many people who were very dubious initially about Paradise Lost who have found it a powerful and enjoyable work to read and discuss, and you might have decided not to punk out of it this time around! But I hope we'll see you active in the Oresteia discussion coming up.
Hi Lori. Have to admit I am a Red Sox fan. But I live in New Hampshire, so maybe you will give me a pass. My question for you: what is public history as an academic pursuit?
Everyman, Thanks for making me feel welcome. I will plan on participating in Oresteia, especially because I saw an internet copy (I'm trying to cut down on buying books).Zeke, We can be friends, but let's avoid the baseball topic. ;) Public history is more or less the middle man between the academic historians (professors, for example) and the masses. We put things in terms that the public can understand and appreciate. Many of us feel that pretty much everyone likes history if it's presented in a way that works for them. Personally, I'll be going into museums and working on exhibits. Right now, I'm working in a house museum and I take people through and give them the history of the people who lived there and the contents. Later I hope to write books like Public Enemies (Bryan Burrough) and 1776 (David McCullough). So, there's a long answer to a short question.
That's really interesting Lori. I never knew one could study that type of history. I liked hearing it called "public" history rather than "popular" history. I'm a great admirer of books like Team of Rivals and Eden's Outcasts, but I have tired of a stream of books with titles on the order of "The Thimble: How a Humble Sewing Implement Saved England."
In fact, recently I heard Megan Marshall, author of the wonderful, prize winning book The Peabody Sisters, speak. She talked about being a female academic in the '70s when the field was male dominated and highly academic. She spoke of the problems of two of her advisors and of being too intimidated to enter a Harvard classroom that was all male. When one of her female advisors finally got a book published, one of Megan's responsibilities as a young graduate assistant was to write the acknowledgements pages; two women were listed at the end of several pages: herself for proofreading and the typist.
So she quit academe, took over the dining room table, raised a family and (after more than twenty years!) published her book.
I wish you similar luck, and I glad there is now a field where writers can bring history to the public. It surely seems that if we don't start understanding ALL of our history, we are in trouble.
By the way, if you haven't seen it, look for a short book by novelist Russel Banks called Dreaming America. Just as you bring a non-academic eye to your subject, he brings a novelists perspective and totally changed the frame within which I view our history.
In fact, recently I heard Megan Marshall, author of the wonderful, prize winning book The Peabody Sisters, speak. She talked about being a female academic in the '70s when the field was male dominated and highly academic. She spoke of the problems of two of her advisors and of being too intimidated to enter a Harvard classroom that was all male. When one of her female advisors finally got a book published, one of Megan's responsibilities as a young graduate assistant was to write the acknowledgements pages; two women were listed at the end of several pages: herself for proofreading and the typist.
So she quit academe, took over the dining room table, raised a family and (after more than twenty years!) published her book.
I wish you similar luck, and I glad there is now a field where writers can bring history to the public. It surely seems that if we don't start understanding ALL of our history, we are in trouble.
By the way, if you haven't seen it, look for a short book by novelist Russel Banks called Dreaming America. Just as you bring a non-academic eye to your subject, he brings a novelists perspective and totally changed the frame within which I view our history.
Zeke, I'm not sure how new the field is, but I love it. My senior thesis wound up being a public history on baseball (you wouldn't like the topic) but since it was something I loved researching, it didn't seem like work and it showed in my writing (according to my professor). Team of Rivals, which I would like to read very soon, and books like it are often referred to as popular histories, but public history has a nice ring to it. I'll have to check out Megan Marshall and Russell Banks's works. Thanks!
Hello, I'm Katie from England. More specifically, my time is divided between Southampton (where I live), London (where I work) and Richmond (where my fiance lives). Needless to say, I spend an awful lot of time on trains and that is where I do the majority of my reading.I've just started work this year after completing an MA in Medieval English Literatures, following a BA in slightly more modern English. Since finishing my studies I've rediscovered the joy of reading classics, which got rather buried under the time constraints of studying four or so a week. This looks like an excellent place for me to continue to do so, and hopefully will prompt me to break out some of the classics of which I am less than fond.
I look forward to joining in discussions.
Welcome, Katie. Good to have another Brit with us, especially one expert in Medieval Literature -- that will come in very handy if we ever get to Beowulf (or is that considered pre-Medieval?)Is there any Medieval literature which is available and accessible and would make for a good discussion? If so, we should add it to our bookshelf.
Thank you for the welcome. I'm far from an expert but definitely an enthusiast, and I'd love to contribute my knowledge to any discussions which fall within my area of study. Beowulf does indeed come under the umbrella of medieval literature (in fact, I wrote one of my dissertations on it) and I love it to pieces, so I'll be very happy if you ever get to that.In terms of accessible medieval literature, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is probably my favourite. Although the Chester dialect is more difficult that Chaucer's London dialect it's still not too intimidating in the original, and there are a number of excellent translations. It's short enough to be manageable, but there's a lot of meat to it for discussion. Plus alliterative poetry is just great to read and not something we see very often now.
Thanks. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is on our bookshelf, so may indeed show up as a potential book to read, in which case you would be welcome to lobby for it.
Now I'm no expert, not being a Welsh speaker, but isn't alliteration a cornerstone of 'cynghanedd', that very lyrical and strict form of Welsh poetry. If so it's very much alive on my side of the border.
What?Why, it would be wonderful
To while away one's week
With words used alliteratively
What wisdom we would seek.
"We" can only wish to be
In Wales with it's history
Where wonders worked in words
Will never cease!
On a more serious note, reading Chaucer is not so difficult. If you read aloud, it all begins to make sense. But Sir Gawain and the Green Knight appears a lot more incomprehensible to me at least. I would need to rely on the translation as I can understand less than half. Perhaps we could have lessons from Katie as we went along. I would like that!
David, that's interesting about Welsh poetry; I didn't know that. When it comes to modern poetry I can only comment on English language stuff I'm afraid. I should perhaps have been more specific.Jan, like Chaucer, Gawain is also much easier to understand when read aloud (if you can work out how to say it, that is). There's a free audio download of the original available here: http://www.arthuriana.org/teaching/sg... I've not listened to it as I'm without speakers at the moment, but it might be interesting. I'm always happy to help with any language issues.
Hi, I'm currently a literature student taking a little break before returning to school in the spring. Reading is part of my soul and i've been looking for a book club that provides insightful discussion as well as a regimented reading schedule. This looks like a great group and i can't wait to get started in on it.
Still a bit confused on what the upcoming book is though.
Teal wrote: "Hi,
I'm currently a literature student taking a little break before returning to school in the spring. Reading is part of my soul and i've been looking for a book club that provides insightful d..."
Hi Teal. Here's the schedule and what we're reading next (see comment 151):
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
I'm currently a literature student taking a little break before returning to school in the spring. Reading is part of my soul and i've been looking for a book club that provides insightful d..."
Hi Teal. Here's the schedule and what we're reading next (see comment 151):
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
Teal wrote: "Hi, I'm currently a literature student taking a little break before returning to school in the spring. Reading is part of my soul and i've been looking for a book club that provides insightful d..."
Welcome, Teal. No better place thyan here to take a literature break!
The next major book will Aeschylus's Oresteia. Between Paradise Lost and the Oresteia will be a short Interim Read (announced at the time but always available on the Internet) to give a brief break and allow time to start reading the Oresteia without having to intrude on concentrating on the final books of Paradise Lost.
We alternate major reads and Interim reads -- there's a longer discussion on why somewhere recent!
Hi,I'm a recent college grad (Dec. 2009) and I"m currently working at a library so I'm surrounded by books most of the day. I've been interested in the idea of the canon since I took a course at the university on it. We read a "canonical" book and then read a similar non-canonical book and discussed them and why one was a part of the canon and the other was not. The first classic novels I read were "Pride and Prejudice" and "Frankenstein". I used to read mostly Sci/Fi and Fantasy novels but I find myself reading more classics since my last semester at university.
Welcome, Anmar.Interesting concept, to match canonical and non-canonical books. Do you remember any of the match-ups that you could mention?
I think most of here probably have had fantasies of working either in a library or a bookstore, but here you're getting to live it, and right out of university. Is it as good as folks think it would be?
ThanksYes I remember the match-ups. The first was "Love in Excess" by Eliza Haywood (non-canonical) and "Emma" by Jane Austen (canonical). The second was "Uncle Tom's Cabin" (non-canonical) and "Huckleberry Finn" (canonical). And the last was "Passing" by Nella Larsen (non-canonical) and "To the Lighthouse" by Virginia Woolf (canonical). The first was paired because of both being women writers and the interesting "canonical" history of both. Eliza Haywood wrote the most popular novel of her time after "Robinson Crusoe" . Even though "Love in Excess" was not highly regarded, Haywood would go on by the end of the 18th century to be an important writer and she was in the canon ("...Betsy Thoughtless" being her most acclaimed novel). But a little past the start of the 19th century she suddenly wasn't. Jane Austen on the other hand had some success but "Emma" didn't sell well and didn't keep in print at some point unlike "Pride & Prejudice". But by the late 19th century Austen is in the canon and a little later "Emma" is placed as her best work because of New Criticism placing emphasis on the use of free indirect discourse.
On working at the library: Well currently all I do is lift boxes and find request in the old stacks so I have one of the less glamorous jobs at the library. But it's fun sometimes to sneak off and glance at some 200 year old periodicals like Scots Magazine.
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
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The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
Ficciones (other topics)
Dracula (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Søren Kierkegaard (other topics)Dorothy L. Sayers (other topics)
John Ciardi (other topics)
Alexis de Tocqueville (other topics)
Dani Shapiro (other topics)
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I'm David and am new to Good Reads and to this group. As I am newly retired, I feel that it might be interesting to include a 'classic' in my reading from time to time. This will ..."
Welcome to David, Jan, and Bishop. You all sound like you will fit in very well here. David, I taught myself French after I retired. I can read it fairly well now, especially since I have a French dictionary on my Amazon Kindle. I would love to go to Hay! I've been to Wales twice, but only for a very short time. It is gorgeous.