Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Introductions
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Please introduce yourself~
Welcome, M! The more I hear of Nabokov's lectures, the more I want to read some :-)
Thanks for the welcome, Peregrine! Yes, I highly recommend at least that one lecture about (re)reading. I really enjoyed his book of lectures on Russian literature, too.
Rachel wrote: "Hello all! I'm new here, and excited to read Anna Karenina with all of you!I live near Seattle, WA, USA, and work at a church as graphic designer. I do have a BA in Russian Language and Literat..."
Welcome, Rachel! Another Puget Sounder -- I'm from San Juan Island, and our moderator for the discussion, Laurel, is from Ferndale, so you're in good company here!
Are you going to read AK in Russian?
M wrote: "Hi, I'm new too, am in my late 50's, am also from the Philly area (in the St. Joe's Univ. area), and I'm thrilled to have discovered this group. I'm all primed and ready to go with the first sectio..."Welcome, M! I'm enjoying Nabakov's lectures on Russian Literature, and have a copy of Lectures on Literature on order. It's amazing to me that the person who wrote Lolita would be such a literary scholar, but he is indeed excellent in these lectures.
Thanks for the welcome, everyone!Everyman - Yay for the Pugest Sound! I love living here. :)
Although I could work my way through AK in Russian, my vocabulary isn't quite wide enough to make it a very speedy process. It would probably take me all year! I think I'll read it in English first, and then read it in Russian eventually. I'm only worried I would get discouraged by how slow I would be going and give up part-way through. :)
Hi Rachel -Welcome from another Puget Sounder!
Hi everyone, I am new too and from the Seattle area (skagit valley). I am a full-time mom and part-time grad student trying to finish my Ph.D. Dying to read something that doesn't have statistics in it. Personal favorite, Joyce's the Dubliners.
Chuan wrote: "Hi everyone, I am new too and from the Seattle area (skagit valley). I am a full-time mom and part-time grad student trying to finish my Ph.D. Dying to read something that doesn't have statistics i..."Hi, Chuan. There are lots of us Northwesterners here! Are you at the UW?
Chuan wrote: "Hi everyone, I am new too and from the Seattle area (skagit valley). I am a full-time mom and part-time grad student trying to finish my Ph.D. Dying to read something that doesn't have statistics i..."
Hi Chuan, Welcome to the group. Funny you should mention James Joyce. He was not a favorite of mine in grad school but I just got a copy of A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man and I'm settling down to start it right after I get away from the computer. It's an uncharacteristic 26 degrees outside - great reading weather!
Evalyn
Hi Laurele, No I actually just relocated to the Mount Vernon area from Los Angeles, and I was in the phd program at USC. My husband finished his residency and we wanted to leave the craziness of LA so here we are :)
Hi Evalyn,
I have to say that Portrait is not my favorite of Joyce's work but certainly most widely read. I like short stories in general so the Dubliner just stayed with me.
Chuan wrote: "Hi Laurele, No I actually just relocated to the Mount Vernon area from Los Angeles, and I was in the phd program at USC. My husband finished his residency and we wanted to leave the craziness of ..."
Good move!
Hi everyone!I'm new to the group and very happy to join you! I live in downtown Montréal (Québec) with my husband and three lovely (and crazy!) cats. Although I can read fluently in English, my first language is French, so I would ask you to show leniency with my written English...
As long as I can remember, books have always been in my life and I've read all the times and everywhere - my favorite reading place being my bathtub!
I've studied French Literature at the Université de Montréal, where I did a master's thesis on Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu. These books are my favorite of all times... I've read the whole thing twice already and I've started it a third time last summer. I think it's amazing how a great book will bring you something different when you read it at different times of your life!
I also like to read classics, more contemporary works, mysteries, and I confess that I have a soft spot for the French XIX "feuilletons" (Dumas, Eugene Sue, Paul Feval, etc.)...
In between my readings, I work as a freelance translator (English to French), mostly in marketing and fashion and, who knows? may be I'll do literary translation one day.
So that's about it for now. I'm a bit late for Anna Karenine reading (just started yesterday), but since it's minus 22 C with the wind in Montreal today, I've declared this a "pajamas reading Sunday", and would surely catch up with you soon!
Hi everyone. I am an undergraduate student majoring in Psychology (No, it has nothing to do with mind-reading!). Like Vicky, English is not my first language, but I love it very much.While reading has always been my passion since childhood, this is my first time to join a reading group. I am currently reading Anna Karenine and I enjoy all of your discussions about the novel a lot. Having literally no friends who share my interest in literature, I am really glad that I discover this corner!
Vicky and Daisy, welcome! Please chime right in to our dixcussion of Anna Karenina.
Vicky wrote: "Hi everyone!
I'm new to the group and very happy to join you! I live in downtown Montréal (Québec) with my husband and three lovely (and crazy!) cats. Although I can read fluently in English, my f..."
Bonsoir, Vicky! I'm so excited to see another Proust fan here! But I'm only on my second reading of À la recherche.. I have to finish so I can start all over again ... I want to keep re-reading it for the rest of my life. Only in my dreams will I be reading it in French, though, I'm afraid. :-(
M
I'm new to the group and very happy to join you! I live in downtown Montréal (Québec) with my husband and three lovely (and crazy!) cats. Although I can read fluently in English, my f..."
Bonsoir, Vicky! I'm so excited to see another Proust fan here! But I'm only on my second reading of À la recherche.. I have to finish so I can start all over again ... I want to keep re-reading it for the rest of my life. Only in my dreams will I be reading it in French, though, I'm afraid. :-(
M
Hi Vicky and Daisy. Being an old curmudgeon (there's a good English word for you!) I seldom welcome people here. But echoing M's enthusiasm, I hope someday this good group will tackle Proust. I know I can't do it on my own. But I'd love to read him. Looking forward to your input on Anna K.
Chuan wrote: "Hi Laurele, No I actually just relocated to the Mount Vernon area from Los Angeles, and I was in the phd program at USC. My husband finished his residency and we wanted to leave the craziness of ..."
Welcome to the area! Were you here in time to enjoy our wonderful recent sunshine?
I get over to Mt. Vernon from time to time for shopping that I can't do here on the island. Used to really enjoy stopping in at Scott's bookstore, but I heard somewhere that they have closed. Do you know whether they're still open there in downtown Mt. Vernon?
Vicky wrote: "Hi everyone!I'm new to the group and very happy to join you! I live in downtown Montréal (Québec) with my husband and three lovely (and crazy!) cats. "
Welcome. And is there any such thing as a non-crazy cat? If so, I've never met it.
Zeke wrote: "Hi Vicky and Daisy. Being an old curmudgeon (there's a good English word for you!) I seldom welcome people here. But echoing M's enthusiasm, I hope someday this good group will tackle Proust. "Hmmm. I'm another one who has never gathered the courage to tackle Proust, who has been sitting on my TBR shelf for at least five years. It would be quire a project for us, though, and I wonder who would be up for it.
There is a Proust group here on goodreads that apparently was formed in 2008 but has never been active. And there is a Proust Project group which finished all seven volumes, and I don't know what they're up to now; I'm technically a member, but don't get to visit there very often.
If there isn't enough interest to read Proust here, you could start a Proust group for a read through to start in a month or two and see whether you can gather a group interested in working through it together. As long, of course, as you can do it without diminishing your attention to and participation in this group!
Hi all, I’m a high school English teacher but I’m a career changer who’s been bored by other jobs. I think I’ve finally found the vocation that I could be challenged (or is it exasperated?) by for a long time. I’m a married mother of two young boys and am in my 30’s. I haven’t quite accepted this whole getting older thing. I’m an avid reader; I think of it as an addiction actually. I am somewhat selective in what I read but will usually give anything a try as long as its fiction, has gotten acceptable reviews and I’m in the mood to read it. Right now, my mood is towards reading literature of the 1800’s and 21st century classics interspersed with mysteries. One day perhaps, I’ll get more into reading non-fiction. I joined this group because Anna Karenina is on my list to read this year and I thought I would be more likely to stick with it if I was reading it with a group.
MG wrote: "Hi all, I’m a high school English teacher but I’m a career changer who’s been bored by other jobs. I think I’ve finally found the vocation that I could be challenged (or is it exasperated?) by for ..."MG, you are very brave. I hope you'll love Anna Karenina as much as some of the rest of us do.
@ Everyman - Scott's is closed. A friend and I were driving back to Seattle from Vancouver, B.C. and thought we'd stop in and they are closed up. The cafe next door said it's been awhile. We were both very bummed, b/c what a great place to browse.
MG wrote: "Hi all, I’m a high school English teacher but I’m a career changer who’s been bored by other jobs. I think I’ve finally found the vocation that I could be challenged (or is it exasperated?) by for ..."Challenged is it for sure! I spent about ten years as a high school English teacher, and it was both very rewarding and very frustrating.
All that great literature, all those great ideas, and so difficult (though not impossible!) to get the students' attention away from being teenagers and focused onto ideas and works of lasting power.
Jen wrote: "@ Everyman - Scott's is closed. A friend and I were driving back to Seattle from Vancouver, B.C. and thought we'd stop in and they are closed up. The cafe next door said it's been awhile. We wer..."That's sad. It was a great old bookstore
Daisy wrote: "Hi everyone. I am an undergraduate student majoring in Psychology (No, it has nothing to do with mind-reading!). Like Vicky, English is not my first language, but I love it very much.While read..."Hi Vicky, Search for Lost Time is my alltime favorite too. Wish I could read it in French, but, since I'm 70 and had French last in high school, I'll have to save that for my next life.
Gerry
Hello everybody!I'm a mechanical engineer, with a master degree in acoustics, working an american company, living in Brazil (actually I was born here and lived here all my life but the 2 years I lived in US).
I have a home in Bahia (a state in the northeast part of Brazil) with 7 dogs that I've recued from the streets.
I've always loved to read but I am reading with no directon at all since I left high school. I'm recently nourishing a very deeply need to read the classics and this group seems just what I need. I'm really sorry I've already missed Dom Quixote and Les Miserables, those two are on the top of my list. I'll try to catch up the group with Ana Karenina.
I usually like reading the paper book (and turning the pages) although I've had a nice experience with audiobooks.
I'll try to get the books as much as I can in english (I think it will be easier to follow the discussions of the group in this way), although sometimes will be tricky to get an english translated version of a foreign book in a brazilian bookstore.
Renata wrote: "Hello everybody!I'm a mechanical engineer, with a master degree in acoustics, working an american company, living in Brazil (actually I was born here and lived here all my life but the 2 years ..."
Renata, I've been to Bahia! Only for two weeks one Christmas, but it was wonderful, and now I wanna go back to Bahia. I was mostly in Salvador and in a new (then) industrial town called the CIA. We have someone here reading Anna Karenina is Russian. If you can't find it in English, I think you could follow us fine reading in Portuguese.
Oh, I can almost taste those delicious Brazilian fruits now!
Hey Laurele, good to hear you've been here. I live close to Salvador and work on the industrial town.Yes, indeed. There are uncountable fruits in Brazil. I hardly know them all. I appreciate you love them.
Renata wrote: "Hello everybody!I'm a mechanical engineer, with a master degree in acoustics, working an american company, living in Brazil (actually I was born here and lived here all my life but the 2 years ..."
Welcome, Ranata! This is certainly a great place to read with some direction with a group that is both enormously kind and very open about sharing various thoughts on the books so that we all can develop a fuller understanding of them.
We have readers at all levels of experience here, and I find valuable comments from everybody, so please don't feel intimidated by discussion but share freely any ideas or thoughts you have.
Jan 18,2010Hi all-
I am excited about joining this group. i did my undergrad in Philosphy, grad degrees in Educ. Admin. and Curriculum and Instruction.
I've been displaced as an elem school tchr. and am currently substituting around Chicago.
I just ordered c copy of Anna K. from the public library ... any advice or questions please contact me. Jan 18,2010
D wrote: "Jan 18,2010Hi all-
I am excited about joining this group. i did my undergrad in Philosphy, grad degrees in Educ. Admin. and Curriculum and Instruction.
I've been displaced as an elem school t..."
We're glad to have you, D. Sorry about your job. You'll get a lot of varied experience substituting. My advice is to plow right into this great book and comment when you feel like it in the thread that corresponds to your reading.
Hello everyone, I'm Lisa and am very glad to have found this group. I have been reading extensively in the Western Canon for the past 30+ years and have always had trouble finding anyone to discuss the books with! I envy the people who attended St. John's.My background and training are in Science (a doctorate in Medical Microbiology and undergrad in chemistry) but Literature has always been my True Love! I also love new technology, but will never abandon the old-fashioned paper book. Reading is a very tactile experience for me.
I just recently took a severance package from my company and now have several months on my hands before I need to find another job. It's the perfect time to join a book group.
I live in St. Louis, Missouri with my husband, our dachshund, and a constantly growing library. I'm really looking forward to joining in.
Welcome, Lisa! What a wonderful opportunity to read to your heart's content. We'll look forward to hearing from you.
Hello everyone, I also am happy to have found this group!For years I've wanted to be able to read the classics and have someone to discuss them with. When I read them on my own I seem to miss so much, so you can be sure that I'll be soaking this up.
A little introduction seems to be in order. I'm Kay and live in Minnesota. My husband and I have 5 children and 4 grandchildren. I love reading, cooking and business as well as many other interests.
My desire is to take the time to digest the thoughts of men and women, whose writings have stood the test of time. Hopefully some of their ability to articulate will rub off on me!
Kay wrote: "Hello everyone, I also am happy to have found this group!For years I've wanted to be able to read the classics and have someone to discuss them with. When I read them on my own I seem to miss so..."
Kay, you've found an amazing bunch of readers here. Welcome aboard. We are just now finishing Anna Karenina and will read George Eliot's Middlemarch soon, after first reading a short mystery selection.
Laurele wrote: "...will read George Eliot's Middlemarch soon, after first reading a short mystery selection. ..."To clarify, the short selection is not necessarily a mystery story (in fact, it's not, any more than any story is a mystery), but what it Laurel means is that what it is is a mystery to everyone except me. And will stay that way until the start of the Interim discussion!
Kay wrote: "Hello everyone, I also am happy to have found this group!And we're glad you found us!
Greetings everyone!I'm Phil, an American living in Germany, and am quite happy to have found this group. I'm certainly nowhere near retirement age, and hope to shortly begin a career as a university professor. I look forward to discussing things with you all, and await the next group-reading cycle, as I seem to have come in partway through this one.
Phil wrote: "Greetings everyone!I'm Phil, an American living in Germany, and am quite happy to have found this group. I'm certainly nowhere near retirement age, and hope to shortly begin a career as a universi..."
Welcome, Phil! Glad you found us.
What is your subject area you are hoping to profess? (The origin of professor!) Are you looking to be a professor in Germany, or to return to the US, or elsewhere?
Everyman wrote: "Phil wrote: "Greetings everyone!I'm Phil, an American living in Germany, and am quite happy to have found this group. I'm certainly nowhere near retirement age, and hope to shortly begin a career ..."
Thanks for the welcome.
Now, ready for a much longer answer than you anticipated? Haha. I'm currently writing my PhD dissertation (I hope to finish around August) in Protestant Theology, so I'm hoping to teach in that area...but at the same time, I am dealing as much with Kant and Hegel as many "pure" theologians.
In addition, since one can enroll in a PhD program in Germany immediately after the bachelor's, I'm also nearly finished (expected May) with an MA in Philosophy and Religion, based off a Great Books program (using Adler's updated set), and am also hoping to turn around and gain employment as a distance-learning professor at that same institution. So Philosophy and Theology, so far.
Now, add to that the fact that to even have the option of being a professor in Germany, I have to have a "habilitation", which is a further degree beyond the PhD, liken it to tenure with a second dissertation wrapped into it. That I'm planning to do on a pre-600AD theologian and philosopher, so now we've added History, and with the (not at first obvious) requirement that I be proficient in ancient Greek and Latin for the PhD I'm in now, the Classics.
Supplement that with the fact that I'm fluent in German, and functional in French, Spanish, Dutch, Italian and Scots, with the addition that I've taught English before, and you find that I have a tendency to approach education with an unwillingness to specialize. Fortunately, at least one of the options should always be in demand.
As for staying here or returning to the US, well, I'd be happy either way. The pay is better here, but the cost of living and taxes are higher, so it equals out. In any case, I hope to be involved through distance education with a Great Books program, as well as the traditional in-person teaching, and would welcome any chance to use the diverse online options that are available today /will be available in the future (coincidentally, I've crunched some numbers, and the very existence of Google Books has saved me around 500 man-hours worth of library time, travel, etc. compared to someone who wrote a dissertation in a humanities area prior to its launch. That more than anything makes me want to stay on top of all the educational possibilities the future may bring).
Phil wrote: "Now, ready for a much longer answer than you anticipated? "Fascinating!
As a St. Johnnie (Annapolis campus), I certainly appreciate your emphasis on the Great Books! I always wished to be proficient in Latin and Greek, but such Latin (high school) and Greek (college) as I once had have long since vanished into the abyss of non-use.
You say a "MA in Philosophy and Religion, based off a Great Books program..." What institution is this from? It sounds wonderful to find a place to get such a degree.
What's the thesis of your PhD dissertation? Are you having tackle Calvin's Institutes? I admit I found those even more daunting than Aquinas, whom actually I enjoyed at times.
Have you picked your pre-600 theologian and philosopher? Augustine is obviously the "easy" choice, but I'm not sure there's much new that can be said about him. But Perhaps Ambrose or Jerome, or Pope Gregory? Or going even further back (and perhaps more obscure!) than that? Interesting that someone writing one dissertation on Protestant theology should for the second go back a millennium before the Protestant Revolution.
At any rate, your experiences and breadth of reading should be a great addition to the Middlemarch discussion.
BTW: when you say you know Scots, do you mean Gaelic? Or more the Robbie Burns version of Scots?
Everyman wrote: "Phil wrote: "Now, ready for a much longer answer than you anticipated? "Fascinating!
As a St. Johnnie (Annapolis campus), I certainly appreciate your emphasis on the Great Books! I always wishe..."
The university would be Harrison Middleton University, which I was also quite happy to find. They offer programs undergrad through DA, and I'm keeping the option open to get the DA there also, in order to dive a little more deeply into some of the earlier philosophers.
The thesis of my dissertation is that both from revelatory knowledge and logically, traditional proofs for the existence of God either rely upon or require the Christian Trinity. Regarding both Calvin's Institutes and Aquinas, I have had to include aspects from both, though I honestly found Calvin an easier read (though some of that may well be due to the fact that I read Aquinas at a lower level of ability in Latin and spent more time with a dictionary).
I haven't even come close to picking an individual for the Habilitation, but I know that I'd like to try to find someone who interacted at least with the prevalent Platonism (perhaps Ambrose's interactions with Plato's thought prior to Augustine's synthesis? I'd rather do someone who wrote in Latin rather than Greek, like, say, Origen, because I simply like the language better), and I say pre-600 purely so that it also qualifies as a degree in the Classics (otherwise my Greek and Latin wouldn't be worth much to anyone other than myself, since I don't have the other necessary credentials. And hey, it may be the Protestant Theology Faculty, but that doesn't mean we throw out a millennium and a half of church history! LOL.
And by Scots, I do indeed mean the language in which Robert Burns both wrote and spoke a dialect of, which has official minority language status, and more variation between it and standard English than Czech and Slovak have (after all, a language is merely a dialect with an army and navy, right?). Language learning, and linguistics, are among my hobbies, so I probably know far more than I need to about all of that, haha.
I'm looking forward to the Middlemarch discussion and read, I just hope I can get a copy of it in time, as I don't currently have one. Maybe the Kindle store has one.
Phil wrote: I'm looking forward to the Middlemarch discussion and read, I just hope I can get a copy of it in time, as I don't currently have one. Maybe the Kindle store has one. The Kindle store is full to overflowing of Middlemarches, Phil.
Laurele wrote: "Phil wrote: I'm looking forward to the Middlemarch discussion and read, I just hope I can get a copy of it in time, as I don't currently have one. Maybe the Kindle store has one. The Kindle store..."
There are also several Middlemarches on the Internet. Should be no problem to find one.
You know, I had written that without even looking. Turns out there was even a free Kindle-formatted copy, so I'm set to begin. Thanks, y'all.
Phil. Welcome. What a fascinating background. I hope you will keep an eye on the closing parts of the Anna Karenina discussion because I am about to take a reckless leap in with a post about Hegel and Kant. The problem is that I know next to nothing about either of them!!
Veterans of the group will know that lack of knowledge has never stopped me from spouting off before.
Perhaps you (along with others) will be able to save me from myself with some valid information!
Veterans of the group will know that lack of knowledge has never stopped me from spouting off before.
Perhaps you (along with others) will be able to save me from myself with some valid information!
Hi,I've been a member of Goodreads for a while, but this is the first group I've joined. Middlemarch is one of my favorite books so I seem to be joining at an opportune moment.
A bit about me: married with two children; teach math at a small college; go to the gym at insanely early hours (4 am) to work out;and of course love to read.
Steven wrote: "Hi,I've been a member of Goodreads for a while, but this is the first group I've joined. Middlemarch is one of my favorite books so I seem to be joining at an opportune moment.
A bit about me..."
Welcome, Steven, and good to have a Middlemarch lover joining us.
I hope you won't think I'm rude in reminding you, since you know the book well, and any others here who know the book, of our spoiler policy here? We have a quite strict spoiler policy that nothing about a book is to be mentioned or referred to until we get to the scheduled discussion of the part in which it appears. Thus, for example, in AnnaK, any reference, even oblique, to Anna's suicide would have been out of order until the discussion of Book 7.
This sometimes feels constraining to those who know a book well, who feel an urge to alert people to watch certain events carefully because they will become important later in the book, but we really do try to avoid that. Those who are "virgins" to the book should be permitted to encounter it in their virginal state.
However, I should also point out that discussion of a section starts the moment the thread for that section is posted, so those who want to be surprised and haven't finished a section yet should be careful about reading the thread, since it will contain what are for them potential spoilers.
Once a section is posted, it's a wonderful confluence of those who are seeing it with fresh eyes and those for whom it is an old friend coming together and benefiting from each other's thoughts and reading of the text. Personally, for books that are new to me I love having the "old hands" digging into points that I had glossed over in my reading.
The exception to the spoiler policy is that those who are reading the book for the first time and don't know what will happen are free to speculate about what they think might happen based on the events that have happened to date. But sadly that pleasure is denied to those who already know what will happen, since it's no longer speculation.
Everyman wrote: "Steven wrote: "Hi,I've been a member of Goodreads for a while, but this is the first group I've joined. Middlemarch is one of my favorite books so I seem to be joining at an opportune moment.
A ..."
Got it! Thanks for the notice - I might have slipped. I promise not to say anything about George Eliot's surprising use of spaceships from outer space in a 19th century novel.
Classics and the Western Canon
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I also love the book "Lectures on Literature", a series of university lectures by Vladimir Nabokov, especially his essay "Good Readers and Good Writers", which has helped me to become a good reader, I hope (which to Nabokov means becoming a RE-reader, for starters).
But my greatest love in literature (so far) is Marcel Proust's "In Search of Lost Time". I won't give up hope that someday this group can tackle that great masterpiece! On the other hand, I'm completely intimidated by all of James Joyce, and have not been able to get past page 2 of Thoreau's "Walden" -- go figure!
M.