Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Introductions
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Please introduce yourself~
Mick wrote: "Hi, Just found this group - better late than never!I'm a 55 year old Chartered Accountant working for a private construction business in Geelong, Victoria. Married with two kids aged 19 and 21. M..."
I join Lily in bidding you welcome.
Imperial College, London. My brother graduated from there with his degree in Civil Engineering. But that was probably long before your time.
You're to be applauded for trying to balance your education in math and science with a healthy dose of reading the classics. Your interest in current affairs and politics is serendipitous as we are getting ready to tackle Democracy in America. We hope you will join us in the discussion.
Mick wrote: "However, I quickly realised that I had a large hole in my body of knowledge left by a lack of a liberal arts education. This led me to the Great Books of the Western World"Welcome Mick. My education was all sciences as well. The best bits of Physics and Chemistry, also known as Geology and then one thing lead to another and I have been in the computer infrastructure support industry ever since.
After a couple of awesome electives in college I have also had a book shaped hole in my experience as well and this site does a great job of filling it in. It is amazing how many great books I discovered here that I would have never even considered before. Its the great discussions our members contribute to that does it. I hope to see you in one soon.
Lily wrote: "Mick wrote: "It also demonstrated that, despite being classed as "educated" and fairly literate in my immediate circle of friends, that I was in fact ignorant of a great deal of human knowledge and..."Thanks Lily - looking forward to joining in the "Great Conversation" at last
Hi. I'm Mark. I've been here before. I'm retired and live with my wife and our ten rescue cats on the East coast. I'm interested in the upcoming de Tocqueville read. I just started today: reading the Henry Reeve translation at Gutenberg. Personally I think we as a country have become ungovernable. I'm curious to see what other sincere people may have to say.
Mark wrote: "Hi. I'm Mark. I've been here before. I'm retired and live with my wife and our ten rescue cats on the East coast. I'm interested in the upcoming de Tocqueville read. I just started today: reading t..."Welcome back, Mark. With 10 cats you must be an expert on the ungovernable. I look forward to your comments in our upcoming discussions.
Thank you, David for the friendly welcome. I got interested in the book when I read the debate the group had leading up choosing the de Tocqueville. Yes, the indifference cats have for any sense of rule is well documented. The most often question I get asked, from individual cats, is why do we have other cats at all.
Mark wrote: "Thank you, David for the friendly welcome. I got interested in the book when I read the debate the group had leading up choosing the de Tocqueville. Yes, the indifference cats have for any sense of..."Tocqueville posits that equality in America causes people to withdrawal and not participate in public and political functions and calls this individualism. Cats seem to have their own sense of individualism. I propose that cats must get their individualism not from believing they are all equal, but from equally believing they are superior to all other cats, and other life forms.
Patrice wrote: "watching cats, i often think they are superior life forms!"I like how they enjoy being touched. I like it when they purr. I like their soft smooth warmth, their tight circular and sphinx like poses. I like their look of peaceful contentedness when their asleep.
David wrote: "Mark wrote: "Thank you, David for the friendly welcome. I got interested in the book when I read the debate the group had leading up choosing the de Tocqueville. Yes, the indifference cats have for..."The most evident human like quality I see in my cats is jealousy. If there is attention to be had they want it for themselves. Some of my cats are related and still enjoy being close to their mommy. Otherwise, the individual cats, confined to the house seem to establish some sort of pecking order like birds or dogs to keep the peace.
David wrote: "I propose that cats must get their individualism not from believing they are all equal, but from equally believing they are superior to all other cats, and other life forms."Yes!
T. S. Eliot has a delightful little poetry book about cats, Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats. It's got some very cute poems that capture the cat personality--if there is such a thing as a universal cat personality.
Some newer editions are illustrated by Edward Gorey.
Mark wrote: "Some newer editions are illustrated by Edward Gorey."Awwww. I love him.
I have a cool picture of him down-loaded from the internet napping on a big leather sofa with his feet on the coffee table in his book lined study with three gigantic tabby cats: one asleep on his lap, one on the table and one beside him on the couch. 🐈
Since the discussion on practical cats has been satisfactorily concluded, shall we move onto the problem of metaphysical cats, cat logic, and necessity?Cats also have interesting views on necessity. That it is now dinner time is necessarily true, as well as a priori, but on some views is not analytic. Most cats resolve this problem by making it analytic.
Cats and dogs also differ logically. There is a claim in the literature (in Anderson and Belnap's _Entailment_ vol. 1, but it goes back to the Stoics) that dogs act in accordance with the disjunctive syllogism (A v B, -B, therefore A), which strongly suggests they adhere to classical logic in general. This makes dogs "explosive", rather than "paraconsistent", which cats surely are. Cats can take in all sorts of information, contradictory or not, without blinking an eye, and still act rationally all the time. Dogs get far too excited any time -p follows p, deduce everything, and run around a lot barking. They remind me of computers in bad 50's sci fi stories which, when fed the liar paradox, tend to say "this does not compute" and either go up in flames or set off alarm bells in the alien capital."
http://consc.net/misc/cats.html
Also, for the theologically inclined:
Could an all-powerful God create a kitten so cute that he could not help but admire it?
Since we are now on the subject of cats and dogs, I submit for your reading and listening pleasure the following poem by Alastair Reed:https://www.poetryarchive.org/poem/cu...
Click on the link and scroll down to read the poem. You can also hear a reading of it by the poet.
"A wise tabby, a blinking sphinx, watched from her warm sill. Pity to disturb them. Mohammed cut a piece out his mantel not to wake her." Ulysses
Lia wrote: "Since the discussion on practical cats has been satisfactorily concluded, shall we move onto the problem of metaphysical cats, cat logic, and necessity?Cats also have interesting views on necessi..."
This reminds me of Schrödinger's Cat.
https://youtu.be/IOYyCHGWJq4
But why did he use a cat rather than a rat?
Lia wrote: "Since the discussion on practical cats has been satisfactorily concluded, shall we move onto the problem of metaphysical cats, cat logic, and necessity?Cats also have interesting views on necessi..."
Trying to follow the Australian Cat Philosophical argument was a bit hard for me. A lot of strange words for something as uncomplicated as a cat. I use my cats decoratively: like delicate breathing vases or fluffy pillows with legs. All my cats are the same. What differs is their personality. Some are bold and some are more restrained.
I find cats and dogs to be similar in the sense they are both rather conservative: they enjoy routine and prefer things not to change. In my house the most obvious anthropomorphic quality is jealousy. I can never pat just one or two cats, the others will always glare. While the competition to see who gets to sit next to daddy goes on constantly. 🐈
Tamara wrote: "Since we are now on the subject of cats and dogs, I submit for your reading and listening pleasure the following poem by Alastair Reed:https://www.poetryarchive.org/poem/cu..."
That is an adorable rebuttal to the Aussie proposition of Cat-Logic!
@Mark: Ah but that’s the nature of the game they play, at least they know they’re being silly. Replace “Zombie” with “Cat” and you get an [almost, not quite] equally valid critique: https://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/dennett...
"Did they find their educational careers similar?Substituting Stephen for Bloom Stoom would have passed successively through a dame's school and the high school. Substituting Bloom for Stephen Blephen would have passed successively through the preparatory, junior, middle and senior grades of the intermediate and through the matriculation, first arts, second arts and arts degree course of the royal university." Ulysses
[emphasis is mine: therefore we would have Combie and Zat]
Since cats always land on their feet, and toast always lands butter side down, it should be theoretically possible to create a perpetual motion machine in the form of a giant buttered-toast-cat array made up of cats with butter-side-up toast strapped to their backs.
Michele wrote: "Since cats always land on their feet, and toast always lands butter side down, it should be theoretically possible to create a perpetual motion machine in the form of a giant buttered-toast-cat arr..."Oh that's good. +1
Some new members have been expressing interest in participating on the Western Canon board. (Note particularly some of the recent voters on the polls for the next read.) Welcome and please do introduce yourselves and give us some sense of what brings you to join in engaging in the discussions here!
Hello and thanks for the welcome. My name is Yasmin and I'm interested in reading more 'great books', and would appreciate the company. I don't have many RL reader-friends and those I do have don't share my interest in reading the classics. Because of this, I find myself reading more contemporary works, though I keep accumulating more and more classics! (It's like a sickness =D)I'm part of another reading community but it is more along the lines of people sharing what they are already reading via blog-like posts. We do have reading games/challenges and buddy reads but the platform does not lend itself well to easy interaction among members.
Regarding the current poll, I voted for Don Quixote because it's been on my to-tackle list for ages now, and at this point I will need all the motivation I can get to actually start it and hopefully complete it.
So, hello again :)
Yasmin wrote: "Hello and thanks for the welcome. My name is Yasmin and I'm interested in reading more 'great books', and would appreciate the company. I don't have many RL reader-friends and those I do have don't..."Welcome, Yasmin. We're glad you joined us.
I voted for Don Quixote, too. I've read it a couple of times, and I love it. What's not to love about an old man who goes charging at windmills?
I've also read Tristram Shandy and enjoyed it. The discussion is bound to be interesting and vigorous regardless of which novel wins the poll.
We look forward to getting to know you and to reading your comments.
Tamara wrote: "Yasmin wrote: "Hello and thanks for the welcome. My name is Yasmin and I'm interested in reading more 'great books', and would appreciate the company. I don't have many RL reader-friends and those ..."Thanks for the welcome! I'm hoping Don Quixote comes through as I've never had any particular desire to read Tristram Shandy, though I will read it if it comes to that ...
Hey everyone! My name is Anakin, and I've always loved reading classics of any kind. Don Quixote was on my to-read and Goodreads recommended this group to me. I'm excited to catch up and discuss!
Anakin wrote: "Hey everyone! My name is Anakin, and I've always loved reading classics of any kind. Don Quixote was on my to-read and Goodreads recommended this group to me. I'm excited to catch up and discuss!"Hello Anakin. Welcome to goodreads and welcome to our group. You are just in time to join the Don Quixote discussions. If you check the Don Quixote discussion schedule, you will see you don't have much catching up to do. Be sure to check out our other reads. The discussions are all open and can be read and responded to at any time. Happy reading.
After reading eclectically all my life, I've been wanting to undertake a more "serious" study of literature, get a good foundation of the classics so I understand kind of the conversations and allusions that works have with or to each other. To this end, I started reading The Well-Educated Mind, and what is first on her reading list but Don Quixote... I searched for active discussions of it on Goodreads since I find conversation about things I've read the only better hobby than reading. And so I found this group. I've just started and am on chapter 2 right now but definitely looking forward to jumping into the discussions here! :)
Paige wrote: "After reading eclectically all my life, I've been wanting to undertake a more "serious" study of literature, get a good foundation of the classics so I understand kind of the conversations and allu..."Glad you are here, Paige! My guess is that you will find the conversations fun and informative!
Paige wrote: "After reading. . ."Welcome to the group, Paige. I am looking forward to hearing what you think about Don Quixote in the discussion. Be sure to check out our other book discussions. They are all kept open for for reading as well as comments.
Paul Anthony wrote: "Greetings everybody, my name is Paul Anthony. Having recently bought a 1952 set of Mortimer J Adler's Great Books of the Western World, It seemed only natural to join a group who shared such simila..."Welcome, Paul Anthony!
We're glad you decided to join us. We're reading and discussing the delightful "knight of the sorrowful face," aka Don Quixote for the next several weeks. You're welcome to jump in with your thoughts any time. We look forward to your participation on this and on any of the other discussion topics as they all remain open.
Paul Anthony wrote: "Greetings everybody, my name is Paul Anthony. Having recently bought a 1952 set of Mortimer J Adler's Great Books of the Western World, It seemed only natural to join a group who shared such simila..."Paul, you have joined the right group. Adler and Van Doren's How To Read a Book is on my favorites list. Welcome to the group, feel free to jump in on our current read or comment on any of our past discussions.
Hello everyone. My name is Connie and I found this group searching for active classics groups. I am very eclectic in my readings but do like the classics especially if I have a group to discuss them with. I will skip Quixote as am working my way through Ulysses but looking forward to the next read.
Connie wrote: "Hello everyone. My name is Connie and I found this group searching for active classics groups. I am very eclectic in my readings but do like the classics especially if I have a group to discuss the..."Welcome aboard, Connie. We're delighted you found us.
Feel free to browse through all our folders as there is plenty there to delight lovers of the classics. And since you're currently reading Ulysses, you may enjoy our discussion of it a few years ago. https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
We look forward to your participation in future reads.
Hey everyone, names Ben. probably won't be super active on here but i am working my way through the classics and its always nice to have people to discuss good books with. just finished Brothers Karamazov, reading the divine comedy now.
Hi Ben. Welcome to the group. Be sure and review our previously read book discussions. We keep them open so feel free to comment on any you like to keep the discussion going.
Ben wrote: "... reading the divine comedy now...."Ben, there are at least two wonderful sites to know about when working one's way through The Divine Comedy . Last time I looked one was based at Princeton, the other at Dartmouth. Each provided access to a rich depth of resources, including the wealth of artistic interpretations. Many other resources are available, and some are identified in the Western Canon discussions of Dante, but those two stand out in my memory. Even if they have moved, and this does happen to scholarly sites, they are worth finding. (I believe the one at Princeton has a perspective from the Hollander translation. Several excellent translations exist and I heartily encourage sampling among them. Hollander is my personal choice as "foundational," but both John Ciardi (poetry, esp.) and Dorothy L. Sayers (lighter touch -- my words) provide rich alternative perspectives. Still others are well respected -- I just don't know them myself.
Welcome to this site. I hope you can both participate and make use of its resources.
Hi there. Simon here. Never tried a goodreads book club before so had a look around and this looks perfect, especially when I saw you were reading Tristram Shandy which has been on my list for a good while now. Bookwise I tend to steer more towards the 20th Century so I haven't read a great bulk of the classics. Very excited to get started though. Going to try and do some catch up with TS but I'm already finding the discussion boards very helpful.
Si wrote: "Hi there. Simon here. Never tried a goodreads book club before so had a look around and this looks perfect, especially when I saw you were reading Tristram Shandy which has been on my list for a go..."Welcome, Simon. We're delighted you decided to join us. Jump in on the discussion of Tristram Shandy any time. Our threads remain open so feel free to comment as you go through the book. We look forward to your participation.
Si wrote: "Hi there. Simon here. Never tried a goodreads book club before so had a look around and this looks perfect, especially when I saw you were reading Tristram Shandy which has been on my list for a go..."Welcome, Simon! You've been on Goodreads since 2011 but have not tried a reading group? I'm curious, so will ask how have you used the site? Also, you describe yourself as a "pokémon trainer" -- again, my curiosity -- that is ...what?
Looking at your reads, I strongly suspect you are going to enjoy Lawrence Sterne's Tristram. Hope you post and I look forward to your perspectives!
Hi both. Thanks for the welcome.As for the questions:
Despite being on Goodreads since 2011 I haven't used it in a big way until very recently which is when it struck me that trying out a club might be a neat idea.
And as for being a pokémon trainer... well seeing as pokémon are fictional it's perhaps my cryptic and slightly pathetic way of expressing a certain disparity between me and the world in a kind of Brian Wilson I-Guess-I-Just-Wasn't-Made-for-these-Times sort of way.
I promise my contributions to the discussions won't be quite so odd.
Si wrote: "Hi both. Thanks for the welcome...."
(smile) Si, I am not certain many of us are made for these times! I hope you do at least get some enjoyment out of joining us on Western Canon. I suspect we can -- look forward to your comments. (I just finished my first listen through Tristram -- quite a ride, imho. Wish I'd read it years ago so I'd had it to draw upon.)
Hello everyone,Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this, but I'm just wondering if there is a general thread within this group's discussion forums that allows for questions to be posed that aren't about any individual work in particular, but that correspond to the general methodology towards reading?
Thanks and sorry if this post is in the wrong place, I am not active in this group, except in my reading of all the wonderful discussions over the years, and thus don't know the exact posting rules and preferences.
Garth wrote: "Hello everyone,Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this, but I'm just wondering if there is a general thread within this group's discussion forums that allows for questions to be posed th..."
Hello Garth and welcome!
We have a discussion thread called The Tea Room where folks pop in with questions, provide interesting bits of information, and discuss whatever else suits their fancy. I think that would be the best place for you to pose your questions.
Here's the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Meanwhile, please consider joining in the discussions. Our threads remain open. We are finishing up The Sound and the Fury, after which we will have a short interim read followed by the second major read for the year. The poll to determine the major read will be up until May 20. We have an interesting selection of works. I hope you'll check it out and consider voting.
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/list/1...
We look forward to hearing from you. Take care and all best.
Tamara wrote: "Garth wrote: "Hello everyone,Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this, but I'm just wondering if there is a general thread within this group's discussion forums that allows for questions ..."
Thanks Tamara! Look forward to being more involved.
Tamara wrote: "We have a discussion thread called The Tea Room where folks pop in with questions, provide interesting bits of information, and discuss whatever else suits their fancy. I think that would be the best place for you to pose your questions."Thank you Tamara!
I have lurked in this forum for years, skimming comments about books I plan to read someday or have read in the past. Since my drummer has a different beat, it is hardly ever that I can synch up with the book you are currently reading. Love the discussion though.
Why the thanks? For several years I have wondered why the book "The Tea Room" keeps getting comments. I have never actually read the comments since I have never read (nor heard of) "The Tea Room". Thank you Tamara, for pointing out that "The Tea Room" is not actually a book! (I will now take it off my list of future books to read!)
I think I will now skim the Tea Room discussion!
Greetings to all the Literature Lovers out there! I'm Rex and I just retired from a long career in librarianship. I've been on Goodreads for a while but have mostly used it to challenge myself to keep reading. Does that sound strange coming from a librarian? I'm easily distracted is one problem, but I've noticed lately, and not for the first time, that not absorbing what I read is a persistent malady of mine. And setting a reading goal and reading only to reach it is not the best path to engaging with the author. So I'm hoping a discussion group will help me dig deeper.Why this group? Not from any sense that everything else is fluff, but more from a belief that I have not even begun to take the measure of the heights that are out there. I've read my share of the so called "classics" but there are So Many More left to read! Now I'm done with working, I'm going to do my best to scale that mountain.
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
Metamorphoses (other topics)Gilgamesh: A New Translation of the Ancient Epic (other topics)
The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
Ficciones (other topics)
Dracula (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Søren Kierkegaard (other topics)Dorothy L. Sayers (other topics)
John Ciardi (other topics)
Alexis de Tocqueville (other topics)
Dani Shapiro (other topics)
More...
So, I'm like a beginner here, I'm not sure what I can contribute. Reading some of the threads, wow!!! but I will try..."
Welcome, Inkspill! And please do try -- to contribute, that is. It breaks my heart to see those who seem to feel they are entitled to the audacity to vote on polls as to what this community reads and yet have offered virtually no posts themselves. (Follow the polls and the member list and you'll see what I mean.) A lot is not required; oft a simple observation or question can open up a key section of whatever is being explored at the moment.
Look forward to hearing from you! Enjoy!