Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Introductions
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Please introduce yourself~
Eric wrote: "Hello! In college I went on a date with this girl who introduced me to the idea and history of classical education. About a year later I asked that girl to marry me and we've been building a life..."
Welcome. How great to find a wife who inspires your interest in the classics. I'm sure Calvin (does he have a pet tiger yet?!) is almost as cute as my grandchildren are! (I have always loved that Chinese saying, "there is one beautiful child in the world, and every mother (and father, and even more so grandparent) has it."
Not sure whether you can take the time for it, but St. John's College has a Masters Degree in the Liberal Arts, which is basically the Western Canon.
http://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/...
I notice that the first reading in the History segment is Herodotus, which is one of the books under consideration for our next read. If it wins, you can start your informal Masters reading right here!
Hi everyone! I'm happy to have found this group (thanks, Genni!). I earned my Masters degree in English literature in 2008, but have since gravitated towards nonfiction, usually philosophy or science. My husband is getting his PhD in physics (hence why I started reading science-related books - trying to understand what he's talking about!) and I hope one day I'll be able to pursue my PhD in Philosophy. From the discussions I've "stalked" here, it seems like a fantastic, welcoming, smart, engaged group, and I'm really excited to join you all!
Jana L. wrote: "Hi everyone! I'm happy to have found this group (thanks, Genni!). I earned my Masters degree in English literature in 2008, but have since gravitated towards nonfiction, usually philosophy or scien..."Glad you found us. Philosophy and science are the topics of our last and current discussions, so you're in the right company.
If your husband is willing and has the time, it would be fun for you to share with us his thoughts on Lucretius's ideas and observations on the physical world. Would a trained physicist agree with us that Lucretius actually got a lot (though certainly not everything) right (at least as a layman understands the atomic theory and other aspects like all weights falling at the same rate in a vacuum)? Is he at all surprised at how much Lucretius did get right 2,000 years ago, with none of the advantages physics has today?
Hello everyone! I'm Kenny, 34 years old. I'm a high school Catholic religion teacher who loves reading. I got married two years ago and my wife and I have an 8 month old daughter... which makes it quite hard to find the time for all the reading I want to do. I'm just getting into Goodreads though I've been on here a while. I'm also just getting into the Great Books via becoming a huge fan of Mortimer Adler. The philosophy and theology works will appeal most to me; science and math the least, and history, literature, and economics will be somewhere in the middle. I love how the Great Works address the meaning of life.
G.K. Chesterton is my favorite author, and if it were up to me, a few of his essays would be included in the Great Works canon. He really is that good and relevant, though different from any writer in the history of the world. Everything written by him, you read it and say, "That could only be written by Chesterton." My favorite book is Chesterton's "Manalive" which is about the joie de vivre in the face of pessimism.
I
Kenneth wrote: "Hello everyone! I'm Kenny, 34 years old. I'm a high school Catholic religion teacher who loves reading. I got married two years ago and my wife and I have an 8 month old daughter... which makes it ..."Welcome! Ah, those "when do I find time to read with an 8 month old" times. Lots of us have been there -- we can assure you that it's possible to read classics along with the young ones (I had three in diapers at one time, and those were real cloth diapers, not disposable).
We actually have read some Chesterton here, including his marvelous essay "A Piece of Chalk," though in our Interim Reads rather than as major works. I'm not familiar with Manalive, though.
Adler is of course a favorite of many of us here. You definitely find yourself among friends there!
NJ wrote: "Hey all, glad to be here! I'm a recently early-retired (well, my last job was 'downsized' and I figured screw this, life's too short, and all hail the ten-years-younger spouse who can support me in..."Glad you found us, and welcome to retirement. I expect that we'll provide a great counter-weight to police procedurals and Mievelle sci-fi!
What did you teach at uni, and where in Canada are you? I look out my window at Canada (Vancouver island) -- any chance I could wave to you if the weather were clear enough?
Hello everyone, I'm Jenna and I'm 21 years old and I live in Canada. I'm currently in my last year of my undergrad degree in English Literature where I have developed my love for all reading, but especially the classics. My all-time favourite work would have to be The Canterbury Tales - I love it every time I read it for pleasure or for studies. I also enjoy 16th and 17th century literature, especially poetry with a current favourite being John Donne. I'm not too interested in primarily scientific classics; I have much more interest in literature and history. Right now, I'm reading a lot of fantasy novels and series, but I'm starting to get back into history, especially of the Middle Ages.
Jenna wrote: "Hello everyone, I'm Jenna and I'm 21 years old and I live in Canada. I'm currently in my last year of my undergrad degree in English Literature where I have developed my love for all reading, but e..."Welcome! What part of Canada? I'm right on the border, so if you live in the right place we could wave to each other from time to time!
We did the Cantebury Tales here several years ago, and it was a great discussion. The threads remain open, so if you had anything you wanted to say about them you might find some folks to reopen the discussion a bit. No promises, but you could but try.
We also did some Donne poems for an Interim Read last summer, including The Funeral, The Canonization, The Ecstasy, and the Holy Sonnet Batter my Heart.
So loving those works puts you right in step with this group!
Everyman wrote: "Welcome! What part of Canada? I'm right on the border, so if you live in the right place we could wave to each other from time to time! "I'm about 2 hours from Toronto, so if you're in Michigan or New York, we're pretty close!
Hi Everyone,I have been following this group for a couple of weeks now and have decided to take the plunge and partake of your discussions, keen insights and extensive knowledge of, apparently, all things classical. I only hope that I can keep up with you.
I have always had a draw to the classics and every one that I have read I have greatly enjoyed. I, however, have not dipped very often into older Great Books well but would like to start. I have always wanted to read Herodotus and, since you have chosen it for the next read, have decided the time to start is now.
I very much like that you take your time with your books and allow for contemplation and reflection. That suits both my reading style and my schedule. I look forward to getting started and with talking with all of you in the discussions.
Jenna wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Welcome! What part of Canada? I'm right on the border, so if you live in the right place we could wave to each other from time to time! "I'm about 2 hours from Toronto, so if you'..."
Nope -- wrong side. I'm in Washington looking out over Vancouver Island. It would take a long arm to offer a wave you could see!
Bat-Cat wrote: "Hi Everyone,I have been following this group for a couple of weeks now and have decided to take the plunge and partake of your discussions, keen insights and extensive knowledge of, apparently, a..."
Delighted to have you. Don't worry about "keeping up." We cherish participants at all stages of their classics reading, from those who have been studying these texts for decades to those just starting out in their exploration of the values classics can bring to our lives. I emphasize frequently the value that those newer to the classics can bring; they see the works with fresh eyes, and ask questions that those who might have read the books before, even several times, have never thought to ask.
So welcome to our learning community.
Everyman wrote: "Bat-Cat wrote: "Hi Everyone,I have been following this group for a couple of weeks now and have decided to take the plunge and partake of your discussions, keen insights and extensive knowledge o..."
Thank you Everyman for your kind welcome. I am excited about getting started and exploring the classics with all of you.
Hello. I'm Dave, born in London 36 years ago, now living in East Anglia, near Norwich. I came across this group after making a promise to myself at the start of the year that I'd delve deeper into the classics. My tendency is to read contemporary novels and watch TV box sets, something I'm hoping to correct (a little). Seeing Lucretius' De rerum natura and Herodotus' Histories on this group's reading list was a major draw, as was the quality of the discussion on the talk boards (though I fear some of the learned debate on philosophy may go over my head!).My education was a degree in modern languages, specialising in French and Italian, so I got to read Dante, Machiavelli, Rabelais, Flaubert, Proust, etc as part of the course but I'm now looking to fill some of the classical gaps. Thanks for setting up this group; I hope to follow the discussions, contribute where I can and use Goodreads on a more consistent basis.
Dave wrote: "Hello. I'm Dave, born in London 36 years ago, now living in East Anglia, near Norwich. I came across this group after making a promise to myself at the start of the year that I'd delve deeper into ..."Welcome, Dave. Sounds like you'll fit in here perfectly.
I'm amused a bit to find that Dante is considered a "modern language" work, but I guess I shouldn't be; isn't he considered one of the first major Italian writers to move away from Latin into the then vernacular Italian? Still, to think of a work nearly a thousand years old as modern is a bit of a head scratcher. But those works you read certainly fit right in with the principles of this group, and we'll be pleased to have you with us to fill in the gaps -- certainly Lucretius and Herodotus are quite the opposite of modern language classics!
Quite right! He took the bold choice to write The Divine Comedy in his Florentine dialect, rather than Latin, and his works along with those of other Tuscan writers was highly influential on the standard Italian used today. I agree that an epic poem written in the 1300s is hardly modern; the fact our head of department was a specialist in Dante studies may have been instrumental in the choice to study it, but it is noticeable how much closer Dante's vernacular is to modern Italian than, say, Chaucer is to modern English.Thanks for the welcome.
Hi everyone,I'm Marieke, 25 years, from the Netherlands. Currently I'm finishing my master in Cultural History, which is a sort of heritage studies. I've always read a lot but unfortunately too little classics, although I had my portion in six years of Greek and Latin at high school. So when I came across this group I was interested immediately.
What really speaks to me is the wide range of books that are discussed here. I found that, although I'm interested in reading the classics, I rarely try reading them as they usually don't make easy reading. I think joining this group will be a nice way to (re)start reading them.
Marieke wrote: "Hi everyone,I'm Marieke, 25 years, from the Netherlands. Currently I'm finishing my master in Cultural History, which is a sort of heritage studies. I've always read a lot but unfortunately too l..."
Delighted that you found us.
Yes, the classics don't always make easy reading, but that's really why we read them, isn't it? They make us think, they challenge us, they expand our understanding. All of which is hard work. But also incredibly rewarding!
And you're quite right that reading them in group like this is an excellent way to engage, or re-engage, them. We look forward to having you join the discussions!
Hello everyone. I live in Toronto, am a retired teacher and love to read. I have a bachelor's degree in French and German literature and a Master's degree in German literature. I can read Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch as well-with a dictionary beside me.Have any of you read Les Thibaults by Roger Martin du Gard? I have read the entire Rougon Macquart series(in French). And of course, Balzac.
I am looking forward to learning and reading more philosophy and classic texts.
Jenna, where do you live in Ontario?
Hi, Kenny. I noticed you mentioned Manalive by Chesterton. I read it not that long ago. Did you read The Napoleon of Notting Hill, by any chance?
Rosemarie wrote: "Hello everyone. I live in Toronto, am a retired teacher and love to read. I have a bachelor's degree in French and German literature and a Master's degree in German literature. I can read Italian, ..."Oh, I loved reading the first book (the gray notebook, le cahier gris) of Les Thibaults from my uncle's library when I was little.. (although I read it in Korean, I'm dying to read it in French or English) I tried to find one in a kindle edition, but I couldn't even find one in paperback these days.. I wonder why... It's hard to find the korean edition these days as well..
Rosemarie wrote: "Hello everyone. I live in Toronto, am a retired teacher and love to read. I have a bachelor's degree in French and German literature and a Master's degree in German literature. I can read Italian, ..."That is very impressive!! I only speak a poor bit of French and read French and Spanish books with the built-in kindle dictionary. But I would like to try to read some French Classics. It's not as classic or famous, but I've read Le Grand Meaulnes.
Marieke wrote: "Hi everyone,I'm Marieke, 25 years, from the Netherlands. Currently I'm finishing my master in Cultural History, which is a sort of heritage studies. I've always read a lot but unfortunately too l..."
Wow, Greek and Latin! You'd fit right in because we're currently reading the Roman and Greek classics.
Borum wrote: "Marieke wrote: "Hi everyone,I'm Marieke, 25 years, from the Netherlands. Currently I'm finishing my master in Cultural History, which is a sort of heritage studies. I've always read a lot but unf..."
I noticed. Actually I had to translate some parts of Herodotus (the next read) back then, so I'm curious about his other work. I'm also interested in other classics though.
Rosemarie wrote: "Hello everyone. I live in Toronto, am a retired teacher and love to read. I have a bachelor's degree in French and German literature and a Master's degree in German literature. I can read Italian, ..."Welcome, Rosemarie. Your grasp of languages is impressive -- I barely squeaked by the mandatory two years of Greek and French in my college, and can barely say hello in either language now 50 years later. I have enormous respect (and a bit of jealousy!) for anybody who can master other languages -- my mind just doesn't work that way. (Some people would say it doesn't work at all, but I don't pay them no never mind!)
I have to confess that I've never even hard of Roger Martin du Gard. And my knowledge of Balzac is limited to Eugénie Grandet, which I realize is only a minuscule sample of his work. (My only other memory of Balzac, I fear, is of the horrified reception he got in "The Music Man"!)
[For those who don't recognize the Music Man reference, check out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZPLt...
or the lyrics at
http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/m/mu...
I'm 99% certain that Roger Martin du Gard won a Nobel Prize for Les Thibault. It is a set of novels set in the early 20th century. The main characters are a father and two sons. Some of the themes covered are the first world war, revolutionaries, women's issues--but most of all, it's a good story.Balzac is not great literature. He wrote so much that there are sometimes continuity issues. He didn't edit very well. There is a lot of drama-- and melodrama--in his works. His aim was to write a novel for every different segment of society. We also see the progress of the characters in the various novels. Eugenie Grandet was the first novel I read by him, we did in second year French.
Living in Canada, it is very easy for me to get French books, and books in other languages, from the public library.
Hi Everyman, in 1979 and 1980, my husband and I lived in Surrey B.C. We drove from Vancouver to Seattle twice during that time. The drive was spectacular. On one of the trips we took a ferry to Whidby(?) Island. Is that near where you live?
Patrice wrote: "Hmmm, is Balzac on our reading list? If not, maybe we should add him!"Several of his works are. I checked! But maybe not the ones we most should be considering.
Rosemarie wrote: "Hi Everyman, in 1979 and 1980, my husband and I lived in Surrey B.C. We drove from Vancouver to Seattle twice during that time. The drive was spectacular. On one of the trips we took a ferry to Whi..."Extremely! If on your drive from Vancouver to Seattle you had hung a right at Mount Vernon, driven to the Anacortes ferry terminal, and taken a ferry over to San Juan Island, you would be there (well, we're ten miles out of town on the other side of the island, but near enough!)
Whidbey Island is just a hop, skip, and jump from here. If I had a good enough boat, I could leave leave from here and be ready to land on Whidbey within an hour.
Everyman, I'm impressed by your Music Man reference. I wonder, do you happen to be familiar with Gilbert and Sullivan? Seems like the kind of group where I could find somebody who is.I've never read Balzac, but I've read discussions about positivism in art and literature which featured him prominently. He's at least of historical interest, whatever the quality of his work.
I am a big Gilbert and Sullivan fan. I have seen the Mikado twice, as well as several others once. I've got a liitle list.
Rex wrote: "Everyman, I'm impressed by your Music Man reference. I wonder, do you happen to be familiar with Gilbert and Sullivan? ."Do I love chocolate???
I ADORE G&S. When I was a child we had a close family friend who use to play the "funny" tenor roles in an amateur G&S group and for most of my childhood we went to all of their two annual performances. I used to read the libretto and sing the songs in preparation. Then when I was teaching in a private school we put on a school production of one G&S each year, and did a very credible job of them. I did the assistant directing and the lighting for the performances.
About twenty years ago I had to have an operation, and went under anesthesia for the first time in my life. As I came out of the anesthesia I was singing G&S songs at the top of my lungs, to the delighted amusement of the nurses in the recovery room (fortunately I was the only patient in there at the time, so wasn't disturbing anybody).
I have the complete set of tapes of the Opera World productions, and the Bradley Complete Annotated G&S is staring at me from the shelf as I write.
I think the only one I have never seen in production is Princess Ida. Don't know why I missed it, but somehow I did.
I love them all (except that I am a bit ambivalent about Ruddigore), but my all time favorites are Yeoman of the Guard and Trial by Jury.
Well, you had to ask!
Everyman, this excites me. Nobody understands when I make a G&S reference. I know HMS Pinafore and The Mikado almost by heart from recordings, and am most familiar otherwise with Patience, The Pirates of Penzance, The Gondoliers, and Trial By Jury. I went through a serious G&S phase in my mid-late teens, and the Complete Annotated book is somewhere in my room back in the States.
Hello I am an Italian avid reader.
I am happy to have joined this group.
Not sure what is going on, but I will catch up
Nice meeting the community
Monica
Mon67 wrote: "Hello I am an Italian avid reader.
I am happy to have joined this group.
Not sure what is going on, but I will catch up
Nice meeting the community
Monica"
Welcome, Monica!
What's going on is that we have just finished a discussion of Lucretius's On the Nature of the Universe, though the discussion remains open (and active), so you can look through the posts to get an idea of how we approach our works.
We have just started a two week Interim Read of Euripides's Phoenician Women. The Interim Read provides a break (a sort of mental palate cleansing) between our major works.
Our next major work will be Herodotus's Histories. The reading schedule and introductory threads are already posted; the actual discussion of the book will start on March 20th, so you have time to get a copy of the book if you don't already own it (the Landmark Herodotus seems to be a favorite edition, but there are plenty of others out there).
Come on in, look around, check things out, and participate in our book discussions -- that's the best way to get to know the group. You'll find us a very friendly and welcoming group.
Hi, Monica. Welcome. I am a relatively new member myself. I like reading Italian books, even though I read them slowly. Can you tell me some of your favourite Italian authors. I have read Italo Calvino and Umberto Eco.
Kitty wrote: "Hello everyone! I'm a religious studies student from the UK currently in my second year. I am very interested in Ancient civilisations and would like to read more classics especially philosophy! :)"Welcome, Kitty! You're just in time for our reading of Herodotus's Histories, which starts on March 2nd. You can't get much more informed about ancient civilizations that Herodotus!
As to ancient philosophy, we just finished reading Lucretius's On the Nature of Things; you're welcome to read through the discussion and add to it if you are interested; our discussions stay open indefinitely.
Hello, I'm Gloria! Currently I'm a high school senior attending the International School of Beijing, and next year I will be continuing my education at college in the US. I was born in Pasadena, and I have lived in Louisville, Edmonton, West Chester (PA), and now Beijing. I've been making my way through the works of Shakespeare and Ovid's Metamorphoses recently, it's a really nice way to take a break from schoolwork.Classics were a bit intimidating until I read a couple, now it's just the sheer volume of stuff that I haven't read that gives me that nervous energy! They're not hard, they just require patience and quiet appreciation. So I'm glad to find a group of like-minded peers.
Gloria wrote: "Hello, I'm Gloria! Currently I'm a high school senior attending the International School of Beijing, and next year I will be continuing my education at college in the US. I was born in Pasadena, an..."Welcome. It's nice to have someone join us who is at the start of their lifetime experience with the classics; some of us are, sadly, closer to the other end. There are benefits both to coming to these works for the first time, and to re-reading them, sometimes several times. It will be great to share these perspectives; we look to you to give us the experience of fresh eyes and of the youthful approach to these works which some of us have left long behind us.
MaryAnn wrote: "Good day to everyone!I'm from the suburbs of NYC. I am an assiduous scholar of the 10th thru 13th centuries and also the years of the Enlightenment both in Europe and the US."
Welcome, from one who fled NYC thirty five years ago!
We love assiduous scholars here, though I'm not sure how much literature of the 10th through 13th centuries we'll be reading, so we'll probably do better with your Enlightenment wisdom when the time comes. But if you're willing to go back almost a millennium and a half you'll delight in our Herodotus reading starting in about a week.
My jumping into the pool will be that I am a writer who's forgotten most of the languages that I've studied. My Attic Greek. Shot. My Arabic. Gone. My Hungarian. Less than spotty. And so on. But, thank the dog of Egypt, I can still get by in French. Nevertheless, I am grateful for the many tongues and lands I have known so far. It is in this one, American English, that I am now bringing home the domestic cargo. So, reaching ever far back in time, let the reading of the ever inquisitive Herodotus begin!
Egbert wrote: "My jumping into the pool will be that I am a writer who's forgotten most of the languages that I've studied. My Attic Greek. Shot. My Arabic. Gone. My Hungarian. Less than spotty. And so on. But, t..."The rest of the swimmers in the pool welcome you in! I've only lost three languages -- Latin, Greek, and French, but I've done a superb job of losing all three of them.
Herodotus is indeed ever inquisitive. An excellent description.
Hi! I'm Gillian, 17 years old. I am currently a college freshman in the Philippines. The books I usually read are adventure/fantasy like Harry Potter (which I started reading when I was 6), Percy Jackson, and a lot more. I think the only classics I've ever read were (and I don't even know if these are classics) The Prince and the Pauper, Secret Garden, A Little Princess, and Little Lord Fauntleroy. I have taken an interest in the classics because I have a friend who is reading Pride and Prejudice and I got curious.Hope you guys can help me discover the beauty of these classics. :)
Hi, Gillian, I am a lot older than seventeen and I really like Harry Potter. Good luck on your voyage of discovery of the classics. I started reading the classics when I was about your age. Welcome to our group.
Hi - I'm Jared, 36 years old. I'm an American expat living in the Middle East, employed as an English language teacher at a private, preparatory school. I'm an aficionado of 20th century American and contemporary literature, but I've been meaning to expand my scope of reading and this group seems like the perfect avenue to do so. Thanks for having me and I look forward to the reading/discussions.
Gillian wrote: "Hi! I'm Gillian, 17 years old. I am currently a college freshman in the Philippines. The books I usually read are adventure/fantasy like Harry Potter (which I started reading when I was 6, Percy Ja..."We're glad you found us! The books you list I would definitely consider children's classics; all very much worth reading. I read the early Harry Potters and enjoyed them, but then they got bit too dark for me, so I quit about number four. I have them all on the shelf, but am not sure I'll ever get back to them.
We'll be happy to help you discover the beauty and power of the Western Canon classics. But on your side, you have to join in the discussions to get the most benefit; ask questions, make comments, discuss. These books don't reveal their secrets casually; they take a bit of effort, and discussion with others interested in them is the best way to really engage with them, which is essential to get the most out of them. So don't be a lurker, but come join the discussion; everybody here is very nice, and I hope that soon you'll feel right at home.
Rosemarie wrote: "Hi, Gillian, I am a lot older than seventeen and I really like Harry Potter. Good luck on your voyage of discovery of the classics. I started reading the classics when I was about your age. Welcom..."
Thank you, ate Rosemarie! :)
Everyman wrote: "Gillian wrote: "Hi! I'm Gillian, 17 years old. I am currently a college freshman in the Philippines. The books I usually read are adventure/fantasy like Harry Potter (which I started reading when I..." Thank you po! :) Do you have any suggestions to get me started? :DD Thank you, sir!
Classics and the Western Canon
Books mentioned in this topic
Metamorphoses (other topics)Gilgamesh: A New Translation of the Ancient Epic (other topics)
The Portrait of a Lady (other topics)
Ficciones (other topics)
Dracula (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Søren Kierkegaard (other topics)Dorothy L. Sayers (other topics)
John Ciardi (other topics)
Alexis de Tocqueville (other topics)
Dani Shapiro (other topics)
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I quite enjoyed this one, as well as Winchester's book about Krakatoa. Glad to have you here, Kate!"
Thank you Thomas. I shall and Krakatoa to my list of books to read.