Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Introductions
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Please introduce yourself~
Everyman wrote: That's nice of you, but with this group there isn't much leading needed. Just set up the discussion threads and let these fantastic posters go to work.They are amazing, aren't they?
Everyman wrote: "Jackie wrote: "Hi everyone,."Welcome, Jackie. We have several lawyers here, sot you're in good company!
You asked "I didn't see a schedule when I was looking around the group. When do you start..."
Great! Maybe I can complain about 1L to you lawyers and get some extra encouragement! Schedule is up now and I look forward to the summer reads!
Hello, all.I'm Joshua. I joined because Everyman had mentioned the group after I said The Consolation of Philosophy would be my next read (well, that or Augustine's Confessions). I'll probably have Consolation read before the group, but I'll still be eager to discuss it. I've been wanting to really study the Medieval period for a while, and this marks the beginning of that study. I've read some works from the period--Malory, Dante, The Golden Legend, et cetera--but mostly I've focused on the Victorian/Edwardian period and the Romantic/Gothic/Enlightenment. I've always had a passion for the Medieval though.
Welcome, Joshua -- glad you took up the invitation.
Well, thank you for the invitation, good sir.
Good morning group! My name is Tom, I'm 30 years old and an aspiring Social Studies teacher (hopefully by January). I was (and still am) a member of another site (of the large bookstore variety), but found, unfortunately, that the book groups always end up disappearing or that they have tons of members but no one ever posts about or follows the current books. Anyway, I was put on to this site by a good friend after she told me I could add my books simply by scanning the bar-code. Well, I was sold after that because my main issue with switching sites was having to catalog all those books again. I know my collection pales in comparison to a lot of members, but no matter how you cut it, cataloging 600+ books is arduous; and stressful, if you're as anal about organization as I am. I'm hoping to have some interesting and enlightening conversations in this club, as one of the most effective strategies for a teacher is to listen to those around you. You're not always right, no matter how deep your convictions lie. I have too many interests to list here, but I can tell you from reading a lot of your introductions that many are similar to yours.
P.S. I read your introduction Everyman and afterwards I looked up, starry-eyed, at my ceiling and said to myself, "This man is in my dream home."
P.S. I read your introduction Everyman and afterwards I looked up, starry-eyed, at my ceiling and said to myself, "This man is in my dream home."
Tom wrote: "Good morning group! My name is Tom, I'm 30 years old and an aspiring Social Studies teacher (hopefully by January). I was (and still am) a member of another site (of the large bookstore variety), b..."Welcome, Tom! I know what you mean about other book groups disappearing or disintegrating into non-discussion, and hope you've found here a group that suffers neither of those faults. We're just wrapping up Moby Dick, you're welcome to join in right away, but for planning, we will have a short interim read after MD and then go into Boethius's Consolation of Philosophy, one of the most influential books for a thousand years but not so much read these days, then after another short interim read, will move to Plato's Republic. I look forward to y our joining us for these discussions; want to give you plenty of time to acquire the books if you don't have them. (The Interim Reads are always short works available on the Internet; they are intended as palate cleansers between the major reads, and also to give people a few weeks to get started on the next major read so they won't have to start the next book, unless they prefer to, while still discussion the prior work.)
Sounds great! I assume the interim reads are posted on another thread. I will look in a bit. Also, I just started re-reading Republic, but I only started yesterday so I'll hold off on it for now. I have three different versions of it. I hope one of the three will suffice:
Plato
Personally, I found the C.D.C. Reeve translation easiest.
Plato
Personally, I found the C.D.C. Reeve translation easiest.
I am new!!! Joined about an hour ago. My husband encouraged me,I am an open minded young woman, looking to expand and inhance my reading.
Tom wrote: "Sounds great! I assume the interim reads are posted on another thread. I will look in a bit. Also, I just started re-reading Republic,..."Yes, the Interim Reads are posted with the link to the reading on the first day of the IR period (assuming I'm not asleep at the switch this time!)
We'll look forward to your participation in the Republic discussion.
Shoshana wrote: "I am new!!! Joined about an hour ago. My husband encouraged me,I am an open minded young woman, looking to expand and inhance my reading."Welcome! Glad to have you with us.
Tom wrote: "Sounds great! I assume the interim reads are posted on another thread. I will look in a bit. Also, I just started re-reading Republic, but I only started yesterday so I'll hold off on it for now. I..."Excellent! The more Toms, the better. (I think there are about six of us here now, though some of them are hiding in the back row.) Welcome to the discussion!
Hi, I'm Frances! I'm 18, and just finishing up high school. Next year I'll be attending Mercer University, which has a Great Books program that I'm very excited about, and I'll be majoring in Spanish and history. I read Moby Dick a while ago, so I've forgotten quite a bit, but look forward to the good discussion. I've loved to read for as long as I can remember, and I love classics from any period, but especially books from the Western Canon. I also like historical fiction, biography, history, and British humour such as P.G. Wodehouse or Jerome K. Jerome. Glad to join such a wonderful group!
Frances wrote: "Hi, I'm Frances! I'm 18, and just finishing up high school. Next year I'll be attending Mercer University, which has a Great Books program that I'm very excited about, i..."Welcome! Ah, to be back at the beginning of reading the Great Books. What a journey you have before you!
We're almost done with our discussion of Moby Dick, but feel free to add any comments you have from your previous reading of it. Our next major read will be Boethius's Consolation of Philosophy, which is available on line if you don't have or can't easily get a copy. It doesn't look as though the Mercer curriculum includes it, which isn't surprising in a way since most Great Books curricula don't. After that,we're reading Plato's Republic, which is read in GBK 202, so having read it with us here you'll be ahead of the game when you get to that course and can wow your prof and fellow students with all your knowledge about it!
Glad to have you here. It's good that you found us in the near summer, since I suspect that you won't have a lot of time for on line discussions during the school year, but we hope you can pop in occasionally even then.
Hi all!I am a freelance writer with a degree in Sociology looking to expand my cultural fiction/nonfiction repertoire while reading the classics and Western Canon. A few months ago I downloaded the 5-foot book shelf of Dr. Eliot, but have yet to begin the first 15 minutes of reading. I believe with the support of this group I will be able to focus on completing, and have meaningful discussions about, these classical works. I saved the Letter From the Birmingham Jail to read immediately, and downloaded the The Consolation of Philo. and the Republic.
A bit of advice--does anyone know how much of a difference there is between the revised version of the Consol. of Philo. and the version available online for free? Thanks in advance!
Looking forward to a great summer of reading! :)
Miranda wrote: "Hi all!I am a freelance writer with a degree in Sociology looking to expand my cultural fiction/nonfiction repertoire while reading the classics and Western Canon. A few months ago I downloaded th..."
I just read the V.E. Watts translation of The Consolation of Philosophy and it was quite good. Compared to the free version I downloaded onto my phone's Kindle, it was vastly superior. I'm not sure which one you're looking at, but in my experience, never download a free book in translation unless you know for certain that it's a good version.
Miranda wrote: "Hi all!."Welcome to our group.
A bit of advice--does anyone know how much of a difference there is between the revised version of the Consol. of Philo. and the version available online for free? Thanks in advance!
I'm not aware of a revised version. However, all versions in English are, of course, translations (the original Latin is available on line for those interested). Also, at the time he wrote it and for nearly a thousand years thereafter, there was no printing; copies had to be made by hand by scribes , usually monks working in a scriptorium, copying them one by one. Inevitably little changes would creep in, and as they were copied over and over and over again those changes would be repeated and others added to them, so that a thousand years later there may have been quite a few slightly different texts circulating. Which is the "real" one? I don't know whether we have a copy in Boethius's own hand, but I doubt it.
And then each translator will read it slightly differently -- we know of translations into English having been made as early as Alfred the Great, and I understand that Elizabeth I also translated it.
So there will be many slightly different versions available to us. Which I think won't matter, and may be a benefit as a passage that a poster finds obscure in their translation may be more clear in when quoted from another translation by another poster.
Joshua wrote: "in my experience, never download a free book in translation unless you know for certain that it's a good version. "Free books in translation are almost always out-of-copyright, which means older, translations. They can be more beautiful or elegant in language than modern translations, but you're right that they don't benefit from the subsequent research into the classical languages or the modern language usages we're more accustomed to reading. A great example is Ovid's Metamorphoses. Golding's translation of 1567, which is what Shakespeare would have read, is magnificent language, but when I read it I often found passages almost unintelligible, and would refer to the modern Mandlebaum translation to figure out what was being said. But I love Golding's language, even if it isn't always clear to me exactly what the meaning is. (Just like Shakespeare!)
Everyman wrote: "Miranda wrote: "Hi all!."Welcome to our group.
A bit of advice--does anyone know how much of a difference there is between the revised version of the Consol. of Philo. and the version available ..."
When Miranda spoke of a revised version, she may have been referring to this: The Consolation of Philosophy: Revised Edition. I think this is also the translation Joshua referred to.
Tim wrote: "When Miranda spoke of a revised version, she may have been referring to this: The Consolation of Philosophy: Revised Edition. I think this is also the translation Joshua referred to."
Ah. Thanks. It's not clear from the description there what is "revised" about it. It appears to be the complete text.
Everyman wrote: "Miranda wrote: "Hi all!."Welcome to our group.
A bit of advice--does anyone know how much of a difference there is between the revised version of the Consol. of Philo. and the version available ..."
Thanks Everyman for the welcome and wonderful explanation to the background of the book. I'm glad to be here in such good company :).
Yes Tim it is the revised edition that you pointed out that I was referring to.
And I agree Joshua that the older, free versions are questionable. I believe on this one, after looking over the download, the paper copy might be a better choice.
Tim wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Miranda wrote: "Hi all!."Welcome to our group.
A bit of advice--does anyone know how much of a difference there is between the revised version of the Consol. of Philo. and the v..."
My copy was a different edition. It was Penguin and Watts was the translator, but it didn't say anything about being revised. It's possible the revised edition is a re-translation by Watts. I'm not sure though.
Hi Folks,I'm a marketing consultant/writer from Baltimore, MD, who first got exposed to the Classics in H.S., but really got into them when I took a "Great Books" course at Northwestern University, several moons ago. (That's how I finally read "War and Peace.")
Now, having published two short novels -- and actually having completed ONE of them (if you want to know more about that story, you're gong to have to ask)-- I'm familiarizing myself with the online publishing world, as I search for better ways for good Indie authors to get established. (I think I'm starting to figure a few things out, too.) BTW, do you know what Indie Publishing and skydiving have in common? Read my profile here on Amazon to find out.(The story I tell is true.)
I've also recently started a blog and built a resource on it that you may find valuable -- particularly if you own an ebook or audio book player. I've linked as many of the 100 Great Books of the Western Canon (as taught at St. John's College) to their FREE ebook and audio file download pages at Project Gutenberg. If the downloads did not exist, either because the books were not yet in the Public Domain, or because the folks at PG hadn't yet gotten around to formatting the files, I linked the authors names to whatever offerings of theirs that were available. Surprisingly (to me, at least) the list included recordings of several great masters' classical music and a few collections of essays.
Anyway, you are welcome to check the list out any time, to critique it and to offer me suggestions for improving it, if you would -- not to mention downloading as many of the ebook/audio book classics as you like. You'll find it waiting for you at http://jonreisfeld2.wordpress.com/100... Enjoy, and please tell anyone you know with an under utilized e-reading device about it.
(Imagine, those great books are available for free on the Internet, while we still have to pony up real money for such intellectual tours de force as "America by Heart.")
I chose to link to JP for two reasons: (1) the high quality of their work and (2) because they provide their public domain ebooks pre-formatted for most ebook platforms.
I'm thinking of adding additional 100 Great Book Lists to it as well, since there are so many interpretations of what constitutes a "great book." But, I figured, here's a way to let the newest technology introduce people to some of the oldest and greatest writing, and thinking, that the planet has ever produced. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. I look forward to getting to know you all better.
-Jon
Welcome, Jon. I agree that Project Gutenberg is a great blessing for readers of classics! I only wish they were able to offer some more recent translations, but there's that pesky concept of copyright!
Everyman wrote: "Welcome, Jon. I agree that Project Gutenberg is a great blessing for readers of classics! I only wish they were able to offer some more recent translations, but there's that pesky concept of copy..."Thanks for the welcome, Everymany. Yeah, regarding the copyrights. I think it becomes public domain after 75 years, but the author or his/her estate might still be able to extend the length. Do you know?
Anyway, please feel free to use my list for downloads. I'm extremely interested in getting feedback about its usefulness, etc.
They keep rewriting the law every time it would mean Mickey Mouse would be public domain. Seriously, the law has changed several times in my memory, and I no longer know the specifics of it.
Susanna wrote: "They keep rewriting the law every time it would mean Mickey Mouse would be public domain. Seriously, the law has changed several times in my memory, and I no longer know the specifics of it."
That's why they called the last revision "The Mickey Mouse Protection Act." I think it's the life of the author plus 70 years, but the Mickey Mouse portion extended copyright for the Mouse to 2019. I would expect a new extension law to go into effect around, say, 2018.
Jon wrote: "I've linked as many of the 100 Great Books of the Western Canon (as taught at St. Johns University)."You might want to edit that to St. John's College (which happens to be my alma mater) rather than St. John's University, which is a completely different institution better known for basketball than great books.
Everyman wrote: "Jon wrote: "I've linked as many of the 100 Great Books of the Western Canon (as taught at St. Johns University)."You might want to edit that to St. John's College (which happens to be my alma mat..."
I actually played basketball at St. John's College! (We were the St. John's Libros. Motto: Great Books, No Gym. The "no gym" part was true in my day.)
Thomas wrote: "I actually played basketball at St. John's College! (We were the St. John's Libros. Motto: Great Books, No Gym. The "no gym" part was true in my day.) "What happened to Inglehart Hall? It was there in the 60s, and is still there today -- was it closed for renovations or such when you were there?
I was a Guardian, the top team for several of my years (I'm tempted to day all four, but maybe the Spartans snuck in for one of those). I played on the soccer, touch football, volleyball, and softball teams, competed in badminton and ping-pong tournaments, and would up with a blazer and a 600 point trophy.
Sound mind in, and all that!
Everyman wrote: "Jon wrote: "I've linked as many of the 100 Great Books of the Western Canon (as taught at St. Johns University)."You might want to edit that to St. John's College (which happens to be my alma mat..."
You're right. It was late and I was tired. Thanks.
Hi people! I'm Alasse. I'm 23 years old, I'm from Spain, and I'm a doctor (sort of, I will be one on Monday - saying I'm a med student is only beginning to sound weird).I was first exposed to the classics during my early years of high school, though it was a few years later that I began tackling them more or less methodically. I read bilingually, which is good; I'm young, so I've barely read anything yet. That's bad, but I'm getting there, one dead white guy at a time.
There's not much else that I can think of. What I lack in background, I hope to make up for in attitude. And cookies.
Everyman wrote: "What happened to Inglehart Hall? It was there in the 60s, and is still there today -- was it closed for renovations or such when you were there?"
It was there, in Annapolis, with the rest of civilization. I was in Santa Fe, where our primary mode of physical recreation was climbing Monte Sol. Our roundball court was a patch of asphalt near the uppers parking lot. It wasn't much, but it had a heck of a view.
Thomas wrote: "It was there, in Annapolis, with the rest of civilization. I was in Santa Fe,."Ah. Yes, I see.
Alasse wrote: "Hi people! I'm Alasse. I'm 23 years old, I'm from Spain, and I'm a doctor (sort of, I will be one on Monday - saying I'm a med student is only beginning to sound weird).."Welcome! I admit that I have no knowledge of what sort of medical system you have in Spain. Is it a national health service like England? Or mostly private practice like the US? Or something in-between?
It's a national health service, much like England's. Apparently they have less bureaucracy and less patient load, but we do have a kickass transplant system. They're very very similar.
Is the Spanish medical system what they're calling the Inquisition these days? Hey Alasse. Happy doctor day!
Wait, today's Doctor's Day? I didn't even know there was a Doctor's Day.Never mind, I'm celebrating it tomorrow. It's going to be twice as big - in fact, I'm wearing a purple wig. No, really, I am.
Oh yeah, it's not actually Monday yet is it?
Hello everyone. New member here.When I went away to college some *coughcough* years ago, my father specifically told me to go and take a Western Civ class so I'd get a chance to read some classics. Sadly, I thought I'd make him extra proud of me and took a "History of the World" class instead, which did not involve any classics at all, so I completely missed the point.
After picking up The Complete Essays a couple of weeks ago, I'm curious now about what I missed. So I'm here to motivate myself to finally read some of what I've missed so far.
Thanks for having me!
Poppy wrote: "Hello everyone. New member here....After picking up The Complete Essays a couple of weeks ago, I'm curious now about what I missed. So I'm here to motivate myself to finally read some of what I've missed so far.
"
Welcome! Montaigne is a challenging place to start reading the classics, if you really haven't delved into them much. You're in time to read Boethius with us (there are online copies referenced in the Resources thread so you don't have to wait to buy the book to start reading!) Boethius was the second most important book of the Western Canon for about a thousand years (the Bible being first), but about 150 or 200 years ago fell out of favor. But as you can see from the discussion already, we're finding it well worth reading and discussing today!
Hope you can join us - welcome!
I'm Frank and the classics have greatly influenced me. This group seemed like the right choice.
Frank wrote: "I'm Frank and the classics have greatly influenced me. This group seemed like the right choice."Welcome! I would love to have you tell us a bit about yourself and how the classics have influenced you.
Everyman wrote: "Frank wrote: "I'm Frank and the classics have greatly influenced me. This group seemed like the right choice."Welcome! I would love to have you tell us a bit about yourself and how the classics ..."
I was a bit of a loner in my school days and usually turned to books for a sort of company or inspiration. Reading the classics helped me develop into an interesting and dynamic person when I could have easily turned out as an ignorant bore. The classics opened new doors for me in education and inspired me to study history and different sciences. I'm also a bit of a writer and classical authors greatly shaped the style by which I write.
Hello Everyone!My name is Kim. I'm new here and I love the Classic genre it never fails to amuse me.
Kim wrote: "Hello Everyone!My name is Kim. I'm new here and I love the Classic genre it never fails to amuse me."
Welcome, Kim! I hope it provides not only amusement but some insight!
Hey, everybody! So happy to find this group! I am on a personal campaign to re-read classics I studied as an English major at UF many years ago but have not re-visited in a long time. Not that I don't like some fluff and trashy stuff every now and then, but the really great works are my main reading passion and I love yakking about them with other serious readers. I am a professional writer-editor of many many years, write both under my own name and as a ghost-writer for others. Fiction, non-fiction, lit crit, book reviews. Former contributing editor at Publishers Weekly, BookPage, gobs of mags ... ad nauseum. Also teach college English and composition (sporadically today, more consistently in years gone by). You will NOT catch me flogging any of my own work, however--such bad taste, bad manners. I look forward to some terrific reading with you guys and lots of animated discussion!
Classics and the Western Canon
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That's nice of you, but with this group there isn't much leading needed. Just set up the discussion threads and let these fantastic posters go to work.