Making Connections discussion
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Reviews on Amazon
Terry -I do agree that someone who leaves a permanent "mark" on someone's reputation should take that task seriously and do their best to leave a meaningful comment.
Lisa
To go back to Richard's original point... I'd be more inclined to read the book. If it had a number of positive and apparently genuine reviews, but a minority really hated it, then it's probably saying something!
Richard wrote: "As a reader I would like to know what your would do if you look at a book with 7 posted reviews and six are four and five star and one is a one star? Would you discount the one star as the reader j..."Nah, there are too many people that just love to put bad reviews up, for whatever reason...some just want to ruin things for the author (really) there are some that just don't like anything... if a book only has one or two bad reviews and more good reviews, it's a pretty good bet it's a good book. In my opinion, anyway.
Harrison wrote: "I enjoy a good review and even bad ones can give you clues how to fix your book should there be a fault or issue.But what I can't abide is the absolute negative review that doesn't offer any cons..."
Harrison,
I totally agree. If you don't like a book state why and what bothered you, that way if it's a new author or a pro...they can go review it and see if your criticism is on target and make changes as necessary. There are those who do negative reviews, just for the sake of being mean...not point to those.
Travis wrote: "Lisa wrote: "It's not just small-time authors, either. I follow a large, best-selling author and she's known to post in her Facebook page for her fans to go deluge the low-star reviews with down-vo..."Just let sleeping dogs lay? I don't ever "down" the ones and two's unless it's obvious they are just bashers...I'd like those people banned..I know that's not possible, but those who review just to cause issues are not helpful at all.
Marian wrote: "Same here:)"Yes, this is my method as well...even if it has all 5 stars...doesn't mean it's my cup of tea, but it might be!
Terry wrote: "Oh and last thought, I am sooooo tempted to write a book that has nothing but reviews in it... Something like the top ten or twenty good and bad reviews, funniest or WTF type of thing.
Go down t..."
Go and have a look at some of the bad reviews for 50 shades of Grey, they are gold. Very amusing:)
Not all bad reviews are bad for business. I know an author that writes great romance books with some love scenes - but not erotic... A low rating review by a young Amish girl said the book was full of sex and violence...sales went up immediately, even though the review upset the author.
Georgianna wrote: "...sales went up immediately, even though the review upset the author."Proving yet again that even bad press can be good press. :D
So, I get this review on Amazon for my mystery, Blazing Petals"Great book I really enjoyed the story and characters. Easy to read in one setting. I would recommend this book for a pleasurable read"
Then, this person gives me TWO stars.
Easily, the most frustrating review experience I have experienced on AMZN
http://www.amazon.com/Blazing-Petals-...
T.G. wrote: "So, I get this review on Amazon for my mystery, Blazing Petals"Great book I really enjoyed the story and characters. Easy to read in one setting. I would recommend this book for a pleasurable rea..."
Could simply be a sticky mouse or a data entry error.
T.G. wrote: "So, I get this review on Amazon for my mystery, Blazing Petals"Great book I really enjoyed the story and characters. Easy to read in one setting. I would recommend this book for a pleasurable rea..."
I've got one of those here at Goodreads.
T.G., caution. It may be a case of damning with faint praise.
I have a question in response to everybody, Does it matter if what the review says as long as people are buying your book. If sales are up and there's different strokes for different folks, not pleasing everybody of course because everybody can't be satisfied. If your bank account from book sales reflects dollars who cares what the reviews say? Right?
Hi, Nick! Does it matter if the review's bad? Well, it does if you read it and feel hurt. Authors are sensitive creatures. I speak both as the author of 95+ published novels and as a writing teacher who's seen the discouragement new writers suffer.My most ridiculous review experience: A reader gave a book one star because it didn't download properly from Amazon. Seriously! I notified Amazon on her behalf so they could fix the problem.
And yes, Amazon took the review off. Usually, I don't protest even if I think the reviewer's unfair, because I trust readers to use their judgment about reviews.
"95+ published novels"That is seriously super impressive. If I had to review this comment it would get a five star rating!
T.G. wrote: "So, I get this review on Amazon for my mystery, Blazing Petals"Great book I really enjoyed the story and characters. Easy to read in one setting. I would recommend this book for a pleasurable rea..."
Some just refuse to give high marks...go figure!
Kim wrote: "Georgianna wrote: "...sales went up immediately, even though the review upset the author."Proving yet again that even bad press can be good press. :D"
Yep! :)
A.L. wrote: "Terry wrote: "Oh and last thought, I am sooooo tempted to write a book that has nothing but reviews in it... Something like the top ten or twenty good and bad reviews, funniest or WTF type of thi..."
Wouldn't it be interesting to see what the reviews would say about it! LOL
I wouldn't let that one star review put me off at all. I would still buy and read the book. That reader leaving such a negative review could have just been having a bad day, didn't 'get' the story, or was offended by language. Who knows. But as a reader, whilst I appreciate reviews left by others, I usually like the opportunity to make up my own mind on a book and leave my own review. Just saying...
Marian wrote: "Same here:)"I agree. I'm the same way.
I agree with you S.R. I had a really strange experience last week.This certain reviewer read my book and gave it a 3 stars because he didn't like the dialogue. Twelve days later he changed his mind and gave it a one star with no explanation..LOL
My memoir will be free for you to download in a few hours if interested.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I7S5PK2 (US)
http://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B00I7S5PK2 (AUS)
Have a great day.
Julia
I think you should read the free chapters and make your own decision :)Julia
P.F. wrote: "I recently had a bad review because my book a)wasn't a novel (apparently the words 'short read', 'novella', "That is a strange reason to dislike a book, especially when the reader knew it was a novella when he or she began reading it. Personally I tend to go for the shorter works.
I like novellas too; it's a very nice form. And short novels - I suspect it's a form done better in some other languages than it is in English.Given the shift to e-readers, novellas and short novels are much more likely to be economic than they were, so we may see more of them. I think that's a good thing.
I would love to see someone create an algorithm that would review reviewers. For example, if someone post a comment on their Facebook Page stating that they hate romance novels, they should not be reviewing a romance novel, since they are pre-disposed to hating it. Likewise, if someone's review states that they didn't bother to read the book or that they just skimmed the pages, that review would also be toast. Reviewers should be graded so that folks reading those reviews have a better idea of whether the reviewer is honest or is just being an idiot. I think critical reviews are great and very helpful to the author. Reviews by people who thrive on being contrarious serve no one. These malcontents should get another hobby, perhaps sword swallowing.
I don't really pay attention to 5 star reviews, and I only read 1 star reviews for fun. I'd say a regular person wouldn't bother to write a 1 star review, even if they hated the book, so the only people who do write 1 star reviews are people who enjoy being miserable or funny at others' expense.I think the reading samples on Amazon are the best way to tell if a book is good. I also read 4 and 3 star reviews. Sometimes a low rating will comment on something that I actually like.
@Diogenes: Please tell me your post was meant in sarcasm.@ the OP: As far as I'm concerned, it all depends on how detailed said reviews are. In fact, a 1* star argumented review is more likely to make me buy a book than tons of "greatest book ever!" 5* and 4*. I've been sorely disappointed by hyped books that everybody and their dog seemed to love, but I felt like I wasn't reading the same book at all, and should've paid attention to the other reviews as well. Conversely, some reviewers will give a 1* or 2* because some aspects of the novel turned them off... but those aspects are exactly what I'm looking for. (I don't pay attention to "worst book ever!" 1* reviews either, by the way.)
I'd like to point out one thing, though, and I think authors should keep that in mind at all times. A bad review hurts, and can be discouraging. However, if you're not ready to take criticism and bad reviews (whether justified or not), then maybe being an author isn't for you. It's not the readers' job to coddle writers in fear of hurting their feelings. It's not their job to be their beta-readers either—and if someone has published an unedited novel still full of typos, I expect a reviewer will point it out, so that I'm warned about it.
Sure, some reviews are downright nasty, and contain ad hominem attacks. But you know what? Don't read them. Ignore them. Take a deep breath, go do something else. Trust your potential readers to tell the genuine reviews from the useless ones (whether good or bad). That's all there is to do.
Kudos Yzabel. You are absolutely right about reviews and authors - it shouldn't be about stroking egos. Like all artistic pursuits, writing is subjective and the author can never expect everyone to like their work. The sooner the author realizes this, the sooner they can move on from obsessing over reviews and back to their writing desk to keep writing.Reviews should point out the flaws of a product. Hiding flaws, to protect an ego, is just going to result in a reader feeling betrayed and jaded over inflated reviews.
Ben wrote: "Kudos Yzabel. You are absolutely right about reviews and authors - it shouldn't be about stroking egos. Like all artistic pursuits, writing is subjective and the author can never expect everyone to..."That, and I've also noticed a growing tendency to consider readers/reviewers as somehow bound by contract—as if leaving a review on GR, Amazon and others was a job, complete with requirements. It's just... wrong.
Yzabel wrote: "@Diogenes: Please tell me your post was meant in sarcasm.@ the OP: As far as I'm concerned, it all depends on how detailed said reviews are. In fact, a 1* star argumented review is more likely to..."
I agree that a reader's job is not to coddle the author. If an author cannot take criticism they should not put their book out there for others to read. When it comes right down to it, trusting your potential readers is really all you can do.
If a reviewer is on a mission to rid the world of crappy books and my book is on the top of their list, I'm OK with that. My little rant was more specifically directed to people who are just plain nasty, and I'm not talking about my book. I'm referring to work by other authors which I have read and have felt compelled to defend, after someone has posted a scathing remark that was uncalled for and just plain offensive. These are the folks who should go find another hobby because they don't review a book for the sake of reviewing. They do so as a way to unleash their hatred.
Ironically, I see this more in reviews for works that are of a religious nature, than say, a secular detective novel. Since I tend to read more Christian related books, I see a lot of aggressive secularism in many reviews. It's hostile, and hateful and in many cases has nothing to do with the book, but everything to do with the reader's belief or lack thereof. These types of reviews reveal more about the reviewer than it does about the book they are reviewing.
One of my books has received a lot of reviews at Amazon, B&N, and Goodreads, but I have noticed that the reviewers at Goodreads tend to be the most critical. I'm not sure why.I agree that a reader is not obligated to leave a review. I don't, often. Some reviewers feel that readers are obligated to expose the crap. No, sorry, I did not apply for and would not accept that job. Let the buyers beware.
Let me put it this way. I do not believe that I am required to have an opinion about everything, and if I do have an opinion, I am not required to state that opinion. That is a choice I may, or may not, wish to make.
Diogenes wrote: "I agree that a reader's job is not to coddle the author. If an author cannot take criticism they should not put their book out there for others to read..."Interesting point about religious works. I almost never read those (I often see the "Christian fiction" label, on Netgalley or other places, but I doubt it's the only religious genre out there), so I honestly can't tell about reviews regarding such books—I don't read them either. I guess it's not so surprising in itself: subjects like politics and religion are known for being sensitive topics about, uh, everywhere?
I guess I was more—annoyed may not be the right word, but a little put off?—by the part about the "review the reviewers algorithm", because it feels a little too close to arguments such as "you're not an author yourself, so you're not allowed to critique a book". As in, "you don't like romance in general, so you shouldn't be allowed to review books with romance as a main plot." (If I misunderstood your point, then I apologise.)
For a more specific example of what I mean: I don't really like romance. Let's say another reader on GR recommends a book whose primary plot is a love story, saying the writing's great, the characters truly seem alive, etc. I genuinely want to find a good romance story, one that I'll enjoy for a change, to reconcile myself with the genre, and so I read the book. Two main potential outcomes:
1) I like it. It's indeed well-written, the romance is believable and beautiful, and even I am blown-off. But the algorithm (or my "grade", or whatever) tells other readers I usually don't like romance. Would my review be seen as valid, or would people automatically discard it, even though it's a 4* or 5*?
2) I don't like it. Maybe it was full of purple prose, which makes me roll my eyes. Or maybe the story kept presenting as "true love" something that I feel isn't (abuse, non-consensual sex, whatever), and I think it's worth pointing at because it doesn't look like "romance" to me. But the algorithm says I don't like romance in general. Can my review be trusted, or will it be discarded, since, psh, you know, that one doesn't like love stories anyway?
I should've been more specific about that in my previous post, sorry. I realise what I was hinting at wasn't clear at all.
Yzabel - No need to apologize. My comments were pretty general. I guess I just don't like bullies and they come in all types, from the ill tempered kid in the school yard to the hateful reviewer, many of which hide behind their anonymous user names. As far as who should be reviewing books - If anyone uses the argument "you can't review a book because you are not an author," they are revealing their inner prima donna and it should be punishable by severe weggie.
Stan wrote: "One of my books has received a lot of reviews at Amazon, B&N, and Goodreads, but I have noticed that the reviewers at Goodreads tend to be the most critical. I'm not sure why.I agree that a read..."
Stan - I have found the same thing with regards to reviews on Goodreads. It is a tougher crowd. It may be that folks here are more critical as a result of having read a larger cross section of books, as opposed to more casual readers on Amazon.
I am amazed at some of the large quantity of books that some of the folks on Goodreads claim to have read. I wonder if they are speed readers or just flipping pages and skimming the story. I wonder if in some of these cases the objective is not to read the book, but to score another review. That would seem a bit OCD to me.
Diogenes wrote: "Stan wrote: "One of my books has received a lot of reviews at Amazon, B&N, and Goodreads, but I have noticed that the reviewers at Goodreads tend to be the most critical. I'm not sure why.I agre..."
I think that the people here value the credibility of reviews a lot more than the reviewers on Amazon. People are going to point out the flaws in a book. Personally I think a good review should point out what you loved and what you hated. There should always be both negatives and positives. Even if you are giving the book a 5 star review I want to hear something you didn't like, and vice versa. I certainly think I'm a speed reader, I've read 5 books in 7 days, all between 200 and 400 pages. I have an addiction. But I am not believing someone read 30,000 books.
Yeah as long as there aren't too many bad reviews you are always able to tell the people who just want to "go against the grain" and hate it because everybody else likes it. At least that is what I feel sometimes.
It's good to be loved; but be prepared not to be.A writer, like any artist, must posess a strong ego. I do not mean conceit; there is a distinct difference. The dictionary defines ego as "the self as distinguished from others".
The lesson to be derived from criticism, whether it be constructive, positive, negative, or just plain hurtful, is that it is just an opinion; and one opinion is as good as another.
Learn from every criticism and become better at whatever you do.
Moderators, you can close this thread now, because Jim just nailed it! (just kidding; nice job, Jim; I couldn't have expressed it any better myself. :)
Amazon reviewers tend to base their ratings on whether or not they liked the book, not necessarily on its merits. Personally, I just want to get about a million reviews. The fact that a reader gave enough of a damn to write one I still find pretty cool.
Here are two reviews from my book 'I'm in Heaven'. I appreciate Jim's point, but how is it possible to learn from such disparate views? (I chose to disregard the second review of course.)Terry Ravescroft being a script writer at a time when the BBC created great comedy (2 Ronnies etc) is well placed to deliver books that are funny and clever. I've read four of his books now and they all have some excruciatingly funny observations on modern life - particularly his latest Stairlift to Heaven, possibly the funniest thing I've ever read. However this book has a more serious edge to it. And I use edge because there is a bit of sharpness there. Certainly it's a funny book and highly enjoyable, but there is a definite point and direction this is going and it's squarely aimed at anyone who has extreme views or is a bit PC. Now the two may seem mutually dissimilar but if you ever as a middle aged bloke find yourself in the local with your mates venting your spleen as the state of the UK, then pick up a Terry Ravenscroft book because he does it better than you and much funnier. He's also unique amongst humourists today in that I think he may not me a huge fan of our recent Labour government so be warned.
So we have a main character that dies early and ends up in heaven with all his shattered dreams answered. There of course has to be a downside to follow and it does - all done with some biting wit and observation. I won't spoil it but it satire if the first order.
I didn't give it five stars simply because there are other books that Terry Ravenscroft has recently put out that are so damn funny nothing comes close. Compared to pretty much anyone else in the humourist's genre he beats them into a cocked hat.
*************************************
The first Terry Ravenscroft book I have read and definitely the last. I bought it on the premise that it was meant to be humorous but it was anything but. I started reading it hoping that it would at some stage start getting funny and stupidly carried on until just over 40% when I decided that enough was enough and I wasn't going to waste any more of my time reading such rubbish. The story seemed to me to be mainly a collection of rants about modern life by the main character, which seemed to be also the opinion of the author and not just the character in the story - and most of which opinions were just totally naff and unpleasant. The first part of the book was about the early life of the character and one felt some sympathy but when he got to Heaven and could start living his ideal life, it soon became apparent that he was a very nasty and stupid piece of work. Some rants about politicians or financial advisers were quite reasonable and spot on but most of the views expressed were just plaid stupid and nasty and in poor taste. Totally naff in fact. I'm afraid there are definitely real people around who would actually approve of Mr Ravenscroft's views as one often sees that type on TV or in the newspapers and occasionally meet, but for me they are not people one could possibly admire or like in any way. A sordid book.
Interesting discussion. Going back to the original q, I would look at the profiles of the people posting all the 5* reviews. I've recently written a 3* review for a book that was OK, but nothing special, and found a great raft of 5* reviews both here on Goodreads and on Amazon. I began questioning my own judgement and wondering what I'd missed in this - clearly remarkable - book, until I checked the profiles and found virtually all of those reviewers had posted just one review, and in the case of the Goodreads reviews, all had joined GR at the exact same time. I reckon my 3* review is the only honest one on there.
Beverley wrote: "I agree totally with what you said about the function of reviewers - that's why I don't 'trade' reviews with other authors. What would be the point if I felt I couldn't be honest because someone had given me a four star and I hated their book! "Absolutely. I did this for one or two fellow authors - it seemed like a good idea at the time - but found I couldn't be honest myself, and couldn't trust the reviews I received either. It was a totally pointless exercise I'll never repeat.
I don't care so much about the ratings. I find it much more impressive to have many reviews. A book with thirty reviews is much more impressive than a book with ten reviews. Shows people are responding.Andrew J. Frischerz
Author of Pacific Beach
andrewjfrischerz.com
Being a beta reader myself, when I read the reviews I'm not interested in the OMG type of reviews, I'm more interested in how the story made the reader feel. Such as did it make them laugh or cry, those are the reviews that I tend to give credit to. Then I'll read the book description. Using that and the reviews that I've given credit to, I'll make my decision.
It depends on the thoroughness of the reviews. I've gone through many books that other people thought were awful that I thought was good and vice versa.Generally the person who leaves the opinion out of it and tries to focus objectively on what works and what doesn't work for the book.
Hi I am Delilah Canaan.This is my first and latest book : Random Memories.
http://tinyurl.com/kdxdfyu
How to I get any reviews?
Nathaniel wrote: "Personally, I tend to ignore reviews as a reader unless there are a large number and most are negative. Even so, my basis for deciding whether to buy a book or not is the sample material. For the r..."Frankly, a fairly accurate summation. As an author, I must constantly ask for reviews (According to the experts, it's part of the marketing process.) The thing I always say to potential reviewers, is to please write what you truly feel, not what you think you want me to hear. Bogus reviews do more damage than good, especially when readers base a purchase decision on such reviews. The problem is that many authors don't do that (some even openly ask for positive reviews), and as you say, there are a lot of mothers out there giving their sons and daughters rave reviews on works that should never have seen print. Another good point is also made on the professional critic versus the reader. Some few readers tend to write mis-guided reviews based on personal likes and dislikes while some of the so called "experts" feel a work deserves a four-star review only if it pries them from their mundane worlds and sends them into intellectual orgasms. Neither extreme is good for the author. As a Goodreads author I have received reviews from both readers and critics, and have been fortunate as yet not to have found either of those extremes. The reader who gives reviews is as valuable to other readers as he/she is to the author. Wish more were so inclined. It might help separate the good work from the piles of trash.
Nathaniel wrote: "Personally, I tend to ignore reviews as a reader unless there are a large number and most are negative. Even so, my basis for deciding whether to buy a book or not is the sample material. For the r..."I agree. I usually like to read the sample given. If I like the premise and the first few pages, I'll give it a try.
Making Connections
Books mentioned in this topic
The Man Who Loved Too Much: Book 1: Archipelago (other topics)God's Buried Children (other topics)
Sufficient Ransom (other topics)
Morning's Journey (other topics)
The Color of Vengeance (other topics)
More...
Something like the top ten or twenty good and bad reviews, funniest or WTF type of thing.
Go down the line of books and sites finding them. Cause there have been many out there that were funny or sad, some that were like are you joking...
hehe