Making Connections discussion
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Reviews on Amazon
People are very individual about books I think.Some are going to like a book and some are not.Myself,I have to read a book for myself..just to see what all the fuss is about..lol!
As a reader, I absolutely don't use only this information to make my decision. I might even not use it at all. It depends from case to case, how much I like the blurb/author, what the 7 reviews actually say, what my mood and level of interest are.
I wouldn't use the one-star as a deciding factor. If I like the synopsis, I will buy it.
Richard, this is all about context. If the content of the one review is in-depth and adds to my understanding, and if the six are typical of the one or two-sentence wonders that seem to dominate Amazon, then naturally I'm more likely to approve of the one review. They took the time to try and get it right.On the other hand I see many instances where the majority of reviewers approve of a book (or hotel, or museum, or broadway show) and there is always one picklepuss who has to rain on the parade. In that case I come away feeling a little sorry for the reviewer, but their negativity leaves me convinced that they were not giving the product a fair shake. Still, I will read it and give them a fair chance to make the argument. If they can't do that, then the majority opinion will sway me.
In the case of "all things being equal", that's a failure of the system. The system is supposed to discriminate, and I mean that in the positive sense. The reason we love reviews is that they help us conserve our time and energy for the important things. Therefore these individual gatekeepers have a very real gatekeeper function, one that used to belong to the print gatekeepers, remember? Where we had very few print gatekeepers, we now have a few million.
I had somebody dis one of my books on Amazon, a million years ago, on the grounds that this reviewer was an "expert" and that I had made research errors of the most egregious and unforgivable sort. From the way the reviewer was going on, it was obvious to any true expert in the field (such as myself and everyone else who spoke to me about the review), that s/he was only making things up as an excuse to record a poor review -- probably someone who perceived my book as competition and sought to discredit it. Yes, it happens. And no, I did not respond or even ask to have the review removed. I have a firm policy of letting those chips fall where they may.
Good one Kim. I agree. This is, though, the new reality. With the greater freedom of self-publishing comes the fact that there is no publicity engine, office full of lawyers and big house to protect us. We can't control what some avatar or even anonymous person may put up out of spite. I guess the only recourse is to do excellent work.....and pray!
There are some books I want to read and don't care who thought what of it. If the book was like that then I would ignore them all and not even look at them.If I read the back of the book and it was something i wasn't sure about I would read the reviews then take the average. If most people liked it then I would go with that. If you read people's reviews you can tell by their tone sometimes if they were into the book or not. If they are very negative then likely they are just miserable or never should have read it at all. Most times even with a poor read and review someone can find at least a few positive things to say about it - I would hope lol.
Alfaniel wrote: "As a reader, I absolutely don't use only this information to make my decision. I might even not use it at all. It depends from case to case, how much I like the blurb/author, what the 7 reviews act..."Spot on - that's what I feel too
Robert wrote: "Richard, this is all about context. If the content of the one review is in-depth and adds to my understanding, and if the six are typical of the one or two-sentence wonders that seem to dominate Am..."Real good points Robert
As a reader, I always tend to read the 1 stars and see what exactly about a book the reader didn't like. I am cautious of one-liner sock puppet 5 star reviews that simply rave "OMG best book ever!" with no detail, so I tend to discount them. I have found 1-2 star reviews can be far more informative, and they won't put me off if I like the sound of the synopsis.
Did you know that kindle books have a seven day return policy? It is probably wide open to abuse though... Click on manage my kindle and you will see a return button uder the options for the book...One might wonder if an author bought some good reviews.. In this case, the book might be really bad if the real review is one star... What about the goodreads reviews?
Having a money back guarantee takes the wonder out of it, go for it!
Mod
I would read the sample in that situation, or, honestly, in any other where I was even mildly interested in the book. Reading tastes are too individual, and review practices too unreliable, for me feel confident doing anything else.
J.D.I feel much the same way, but I give the Amazon system a bit more credit than that. I agree with you that it's not a very good system. Comparisons? It's better than Netflix, where there hardly exists a movie that is not 3 or 3.5 stars. It's far worse than the New York Times Sunday book review section, where I can't remember a review that did not inform me or make me feel like I at least had enough information to make a decision on whether to buy a book or not.
The Times comparison reminds me that it's not just about sales. Reviews can also be literature in themselves. And there is some of that going on at Amazon.com.
Richard wrote: "As a reader I would like to know what your would do if you look at a book with 7 posted reviews and six are four and five star and one is a one star? Would you discount the one star as the reader j..."I always look at the other reviews of the 1,2, or 3 star rater. If I see some kind of consistency then I can make a better decision. If it's a book review I see what else they have read. If it's a product I compare their reviews to others.
I have to say I check more on the 1, 2 or 3 star reviewers than I do on the 4 and 5 reviewers.
I check the reviewer before i trust their opinion.
I know this might be a problem but I wish there was an age range that had to be posted when reviews are posted.
My work has experienced the opposite effect to what others in this thread have noted, along the lines of 1- and 2-star reviews being "more informative." Two of the three 1-star Amazon customer reviews were short, 3-sentence piles of vague negativity, and the 3rd was from the aforementioned "expert." No 2-stars to date, and only 3 of the 20 4- and 5-star reviews were short "must buy this book" blasts.What I have a real problem with -- and I avoid this like the proverbial plague when writing my own reviews -- are those reviewers who choose to dock my work by 2 or more rating levels just because they disagree with its philosophical content. Both of my novel's 3-star ratings on Amazon fall into that category, but I exercise a firm policy to never debate with the reviewer over a review's content or rating. I left another Goodreads review-oriented group recently because of a similar situation (a book I had reviewed). Who needs that hassle?
I personally despise 1 or 2 star non-reviews. In other words they don't post a review.I heard that people who did this are unscrupulous authors determined to undermine their perceived competition.
And then there are the reviewers who don't review, but criticise, and from the text they post, it is apparent from all other reviews, that they either haven't read it or given a book a chance.
But, hey ho, that's life and it takes allsorts.
I read the blurb, sample the product and decide based on a mixture of what I read and reviews.
Harrison
I am as suspicious of 5* reviews as I am of 1*s. I wouldnt avoid a book simply on the basis of 1 1*. Read the 1* and a selection of the 5*s. If they are well written, logically laid out and give an indication of the reasoning behind the rating given then take the review into account. If it looks like a fluff piece or trash talk (or even "I havent read this book but this is my rating!") then discount it.
As a reviewer I try to apply similar logic when writing my reviews. If I actually apply a rating, I start at a 4* and talk myself up or down from there - there are very few 5*s I give any more! If I deduct points I will usually say why (e.g. .5 star taken off due to formatting issues making ebook painful to read)
A warning: Amazon have a weird way of treating reviews which can result in both valid and invalid reviews being deleted based on some criteria only Amazon really knows - I know authors who have had some lovely valid 5* reviews deleted from their books and are unable to get a response from Amazon as to why. (I rarely post reviews to Amazon any more due to their treatment of reviews)
So as a suggestion: if you like the sound of a book, check out reviews on both Amazon, and elsewhere on the web (goodreads is owned by Amazon and has had it's own issues over reviews recently, nuff said). In the end, if you like the look of it: buy it and make your own mind up. Either way, write a review, and hope someone finds it useful!
I so feel your pain. I honestly thought that a person reviewing your book looked at how well it was written, can you follow the story, is their humor, descriptions, etc. People my publisher recommended me to send my book to are comparing themselves to the characters and saying they are glad they are not like the characters. I find this rather disturbing.Grace
RE: Great Amazon customer reviews deleted because God-knows-why.If you're the author of the book and have a great review that has been deleted from the customer review database, sign in to Amazon Author Central and add the review under the "Editorial Reviews" section. It won't bump the work's rating, but the text will be preserved. BN.com offers the same feature -- with a =lot= less hassle than Amazon does. (I liken Amazon's Author Central to a mall parking lot: nothing laid out on straight grid lines because they don't want you speeding through. :)
I have never been swayed by either five star reviews or one star reviews. Other people's opinions don't matter to me. If I had to decide based on reviews though, having a lot of 5 stars and then one 1 star review would actually make me more interested in it. It just doesn't make sense that everyone would like a book. If that were the case then either those reviewers knew the author or they were just commenting on the genre and not the actual book. Every book should have a wide range of reviews. (I hated Wuthering Heights. I know other people loved it.) It's the same for any book. I buy a book based only on the blurb and the title.
I check the synopsis first. This first step is where I generally lose interest, especially if I see a line like "will his love be enough to save her". I glance at ratings and reviews, take a look at one or two high grade4-5, then one or two low grade 1-2. I can generally tell which reviewers have similar tastes to mine. If I'm still interested, I'll read the sample. If the sample is good I buy. The sample is the most important part, if you can judge for yourself if the writing is good, why not? Why let the opinions of strangers decide what you're allowed to like.
I agree with what Reed said. When reading reviews, it's often possible to tell the reviewer's taste in books. If they seem to like what I like, then I'm more likely to agree with what they said and either buy or not buy the book in question. Other than that I tend to average the reviews and go with that figure.
I guess a good many authors are stuck in no man's land. If they only ever receive genuine 4 or 5 star reviews. How does one break out if. I one trusts these ratings with accompanying in-depth reviews?
I must confess that these days I don't consider any of the above. I read what I want to (from a long list) and what I have to (to participate actively in groups and/or web-sites dedicated to helping writers hone their product). I suspect there are others like me.
I have written 2,187 reviews for Amazon and at one point I was one of their top 10 reviewers. So I've been living in the Amazon world for about 15 years.There are no simple rules on Amazon. A flurry of 5 star reviews could simply mean someone got all their friends to post it up. A 1 star review could be a grumpy person with a personal issue. I read the meat of what they say. I judge by the comments they make, to see if they're coherent and meaningful.
There are many books that might get lots of "great" reviews and are still not for me. I can often tell that by reading what the reviewers actually wrote.
For example, I like romance novels but I do not like reading hero-rape scenarios. So that's something I look for, to know to avoid it.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "I have written 2,187 reviews for Amazon and at one point I was one of their top 10 reviewers. So I've been living in the Amazon world for about 15 years.There are no simple rules on Amazon. A flu..."
I know how you feel, Lisa. That's why I don't bother fretting over any 1 or 2-star reviews I may get. When someone writes a bad review, it's always important to read what they wrote. In many cases, you can tell that the person didn't know what they were looking for when they selected your book. In other cases, the person was just miserable.
Russell - On one hand I wouldn't go into a downward spiral over a one-star review. On the other hand I wouldn't dismiss it. Many one-star reviews have important data in them that can help guide the book and/or its marketing.
Rory -It's key to build a strong, daily presence in Twitter, Facebook, and Google+. You need to make posts that draw in readers and keep them engaged.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "I have written 2,187 reviews for Amazon and at one point I was one of their top 10 reviewers. So I've been living in the Amazon world for about 15 years.There are no simple rules on Amazon. A flu..."
Now I'm going to have sleepless nights, wondering if you have reviewed my book. I got a 1 star review from a person who was annoyed that I used semicolons incorrectly and too often; probably right.
I don't always look at the ratings. I have always like shows, movies and/or books that have not always received the best reviews. I like to decide for myself.
Dormaine wrote: "I don't always look at the ratings. I have always like shows, movies and/or books that have not always received the best reviews. I like to decide for myself."I'm the same way Dormaine. I'll glance at the reviews, but I've often disliked books/movies, etc that were really popular, and really loved others that were very unpopular by the general public.
I like to download the samples also and get a feel for the book before I make my decision. That's really been a key factor for me lately.
Stan -I imagine we all have different levels of tolerance for punctuation and spelling issues. On one hand I don't go too crazy about semicolons and commas. On the other hand, I've had some books where literally every other sentence had an obvious typo in it. That wears on me after a few pages. It makes me feel like the author just didn't care.
Lisa
Dormaine -The decide for oneself idea is a nice ideal - but I'm afraid I just don't have the time to read the first chapter of every book that's released :). I need at least some guidance to know which books are worth trying that first chapter of.
If something is hard core horror, that would be something I don't even have to read to know it's not for me. So five reviews in a row that talk about its hard core horror - whether the reviews are positive or negative - lets me know I don't have to try it for myself. I know it's not for me.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "Stan -I imagine we all have different levels of tolerance for punctuation and spelling issues. On one hand I don't go too crazy about semicolons and commas. On the other hand, I've had some books..."
I feel the same way. I know it's inevitable. Most new writers are so eager to get their manuscript published that they don't take the time to do the simplest edits. My early work deserved some of the two star reviews. I will always be grateful to those who took the time to point out my mistakes, even when they did so in a harsh manner. Harsh, not mean.
I have given a couple of 1 star and a handful of 5 star reviews, but I always have a reason behind my ratings and usually write fairly long reviews trying to explain my stance.Any work of art is going to be viewed subjectively and the artist (or in this case writer) should be prepared for a selection of the people experiencing the work to dislike it. But, from the other side if someone is going to rate something publicly they should also publicly state why they rated it that way. That way other readers can look at the review and see if the reason I gave it a low rating would be something they care about or not.
Travis -Well said. It's the context that matters so much.
Lisa
I however do have a bone to pick the other direction. Several times I have had the author of a book downvote my review (I know its the author because I follow their profile), sometimes they even go as far as digging into my other reviews and doing a mass downvote.This bugs me. I would get it if I just gave a negative rating and a one or 2 sentence review. But if I lay out a well reasoned explanation of why I did not enjoy the book, the downvote seems a bit petty.
In one case the author confronted me here on goodreads asking for a further explanation of my review. We went back and fourth as I tried to explain why I did not enjoy his work. At the end of that exchange he found my review on Amazon and Shelfari (I distribute most of my reviews to multi sites, both good and bad) and downvoted/found unhelpful both of them with no comment.
It seems the flip side of the coin to me. Sorry, didn't mean to rant but I see a lot of threads like this on book message boards and various groups where authors take umbrage to some of the ways their stuff gets reviewed, but no one talks about the other side where some authors can not take honest, legitimate criticism.
Travis, excellent comments, once again. I'm learning from you. Sadly it may just be a reflection of that old adage: Great men talk about ideas, mediocre men talk about events, petty men talk about other people (or words to that effect). Writing a book should not be a popularity contest. This is already ironic since probably many authors (and I am no exception) would like to think that their work should/could be "wildly popular" if only x, y, or z. The fact remains that any serious work of art is a huge risk and a gamble, and nothing can change that, not even bogus 5 star reviews on Amazon.
Travis -For a while I was a top-10 reviewer on Amazon so I've seen a wealth of strange behavior from both authors and other reviewers. People would go on campaigns to down vote me so they could get into the top 10. I'd make a post about one book and the author would rally their fans to track me down and harass me. I've definitely had authors write me nasty letters and send messages to their email lists for people to come after me.
I don't even write "nasty" reviews. I try to give thoughtful reviews that look at all sides of an issue. But some authors, if it's not five-stars, get wildly wound up. Some fans can be equally as enthusiastic.
It's not just small-time authors, either. I follow a large, best-selling author and she's known to post in her Facebook page for her fans to go deluge the low-star reviews with down-votes and negative comments. She actively encourages it. I find that incredibly unprofessional.
I take review writing fairly seriously. It's why I can sometimes be a bit unhappy with posts here in GoodReads with people "trading glowing reviews" or paying for reviews or engaging in other unethical behavior.
Reviews are supposed to be the honest opinions of unbiased readers who truly feel a certain way about an item. That's what we consumers rely on.
If an author has to game the system to get good reviews, they should take a hard look at their book and figure out what they should fix.
My novels earn mostly good reviews, and some "fix this" reviews. I take those under-4-star reviews seriously and see if there is something I need to update - either in the book, or in its marketing material.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "It's not just small-time authors, either. I follow a large, best-selling author and she's known to post in her Facebook page for her fans to go deluge the low-star reviews with down-votes and negative comments. She actively encourages it. I find that incredibly unprofessional."Wow, this would make me not want to read that author any more.
Of course I know not all authors are like this, but it is good to hear from some authors who both listen to reviews and take them with a grain of salt.
Reading after all are highly subjective. There are books I absolutely love that my friends who's taste in entertainment I generally always agree with hate. What are you gonna do?
I enjoy a good review and even bad ones can give you clues how to fix your book should there be a fault or issue.But what I can't abide is the absolute negative review that doesn't offer any constructive offering at all. Had one. Hate it, and find it odd that all other reviews disagree wholeheartedly.
Guess it takes all sorts. By please at least be constructively critical, not slap the author when they're down.
Lisa wrote: "Travis -For a while I was a top-10 reviewer on Amazon so I've seen a wealth of strange behavior from both authors and other reviewers. People would go on campaigns to down vote me so they could g..."
Somebody who actively encourages hunting down and tormenting reviewers who gave a low score? Damn! That is just awful and petty.
My first book is like this, I have a few 4 and 5 star reviews and then one 2 and 1 star reviews. If people want to judge the book off either I don't mind, I'm redoing the book anyways and aside from that if reviews encourage others to read it then all the more better.
Harrison -I agree completely. I understand that not all readers will love my books. If someone is going to give it 1 or 2 stars, at least let me know why so I can figure out if it's something to fix. If someone complains that my medieval romance novel has no explicit sex in it, well, that's the way they're written. So that complaint would mean I need to update my marketing material to make that clear. That way those who like clean romance can find it - and those who are seeking explicit romance know to go elsewhere.
Lisa
Lisa wrote: "If someone complains that my medieval romance novel has no explicit sex in it, well, that's the way they're written. So that complaint would mean I need to update my marketing material to make that clear. That way those who like clean romance can find it - and those who are seeking explicit romance know to go elsewhere."Lisa, you sound like a woman after my own heart! And your author profile confirms it. :)
I have to admit, I was a little naive to the true despicable nature of some until I joined Goodreads and read crazy posts about authors bashing other authors and reviewers. I couldn't believe there were people out there that did such things. But, sadly, there are and I saw the posts to prove it.I've given some low ratings and, thankfully, I have not been subjected to such treatment. However, if I were, I would like to think I would be strong enough to let it roll off my back. Matter of fact, I know I would. You have to rise above stuff like that, not stoop to the same level.
I do read reviews and it's usually a handful of the 5 stars along with a handful of the 2 stars. It just helps me see why different people felt a certain way. It might sway my decision, but I think hateful or inaccurate reviews are pretty easy to spot.
I also had an eye opener to the fluff 5 star reviews. Again, in my desire to think only decent people existed, I thought a book I picked up with a bunch of 5 stars would be worth something. After I read it, I was somewhat confused on how I could be so far off in my opinion from the other reviews. When I checked the reviewers' Goodreads profile, they had only rated AND read that one book. I was sad and felt a little cheated. Maybe it was the author using different profiles or maybe they got their friends and family to rate it. Either way, it validated my reasoning behind asking friends and family NOT to rate my book.
A review should be your own opinion, which, last time I checked, was completely within my rights. Oh, and not everyone needs to have the same opinion. How boring would our world be if everyone thought the same?
Making Connections
Books mentioned in this topic
The Man Who Loved Too Much: Book 1: Archipelago (other topics)God's Buried Children (other topics)
Sufficient Ransom (other topics)
Morning's Journey (other topics)
The Color of Vengeance (other topics)
More...
Richard Brawer
www.silklegacy.com