BEYOND THE ELASTIC LIMIT: General Discussion

[Howard]

Paul, have you a Time Fistula or equivalent?

You see, I just read Lincoln's spoiler & feel much better thereby.

It's a feeling I further believe he will, in his own personal Future, also experience.

Heh heh heh

[Howard]

Lincoln mentioned in his spoiler the 'key to the fort'

Lincoln, this made-up tale of his is an Allegory told as a Fable inside of an Epic.

His 'cover story' is true & the characters real, just couched inside another story & so hidden from those not in the know.

Only one example.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

General Discussion Question

In Beyond The Elastic Limit characters are struggling to enforce a mandate when all else around them is madness.

What mandates do you feel must be unchanged despite insane circumstances such as war, zombie apocalypse, or time exploding.

I know this is a very vague question. I hope that promotes discussion, not hinder it. Do you think humanity has a chance, or do you devolve into a Lord of the flies scenario?

[Howard]

Lincoln states: 'In Beyond The Elastic Limit characters are struggling to enforce a mandate when all else around them is madness'

Lincoln, I'm often asked what this Epic Fable is all about.

Your brief statement is the best description so far.

In your spoiler the other day you referred to the Intro & the reader making their own choices & you've just done so beautifully.

You chose well, thanks.

You go man.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

So, I am still working through chapter 10..and I have been thinking about the question I posed and I think I have had an ah-ha moment.

What is justice? What is truth...go with me on this one a bit. Justice is Justice and Truth is Truth. Regardless of circumstances we find ourselves. Right is Right. Your book is an attempt to right a timeline that has gone hog wild, and the characters are justifying their actions because in "fixing" the time line, everything will be made right. Therefore, any wrong in an effort to make right is seen as ok.

Wrong. Perhaps only six characters will survive the righting of the timeline, but all of their actions may be for the greater good...but no Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong. Its not about the destination...its about the journey.

The mandate is to be a good person despite sometimes very difficult circumstances.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Guess regarding the book:
(view spoiler)[Primus is the traitor he is testing everyone to see if they will be "good" in the face of chaos (hide spoiler)]

[Howard]

Lincoln, I guess by now you have discovered the real purpose behind this Epic Fable; this is not a 'no-mind' fantasy but a book that makes you think.

The characters are real people, perhaps doing unreal things but real nonetheless, each with flaws and personal problems they must face and overcome.

Now, much of the criticisms I read about Time Travel books is that the plots are the standard fare, just variations on a theme & something that's been done before, but I think my Epic Fables dispel this notion, that is, I think they're unique.

Hope so, at any rate & hope it's interesting for you, given you're the only one participating.

The second Epic Fable concerning the Elastic Limit is very different, for this first book sets the tone & there's no need to jump around as much in the next one, which is told in one flowing narrative.

Not that the next one (or the newest one I've almost finished) doesn't make you cogitate also, for it does & you'll many times think you know what's happening only to be surprised, as hopefully you are with this endeavor.

And, if you're still on chapter 10 you've got many surprises ahead, my friend.

And thanks for moderating this month, it's appreciated.

[Paul]

Lincoln wrote: "The mandate is to be a good person despite sometimes very difficult circumstances. .."

Lincoln, once again I like how you think. Here I was struggling as to Right or Wrong, Truth and Justice and Facts, but none worked for me because of one universal question: "Sez Who?" Try as they may, no one else can dictate our mandate.

I was coming up with a version of the answer you did, but was worried it was too simple. But that's the beauty of it. The corollary might be, "Do unto others . . ."

[Paul]

Lincoln wrote: "Guess regarding the book:
[spoilers removed]"

All I can say, is, Don't walk through any puddles on the way home. You know, lightning bolts and all. :-)

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Finished 10 and 11...

(view spoiler)[ So Primus is an old computer...The answer to the world the universe and everything is "42" I guess this goes to Paul's point Sez Who? who dictates right and wrong? Primus? another false god. I guess it reiterates what I was saying, I suppose it comes down to individual belief and universal truth and right...perhaps I completely wrong as well, in that right and wrong can be interpreted badly...This is a very philosophical question that requires a lot of thought that I have not invested enough yet.

In the meantime I am imagining a medieval robed king with all the frills and bells and whistles that a king would wear along with a a very large crown on his head...brandishing an M-16 with ammo across his chest in criss crossing bandoleers. Nice image. (hide spoiler)]

[Paul]

Lincoln wrote: "Finished 10 and 11... So Primus is ...."

Love it! Hold that thought for the screenplay version. A certain blockbuster. (PG)

[Howard]

Lincoln, I’m pleased that you are so close & as such, here’s what I want to know from you (or any reader):

How is this book an Epic & how a Fable?

What literary tools (a la the ‘mcguffin’) were employed to convey a universally human connotation?

Play on words (Archie Spume, the Deferent, etc.) work for you or lost on you?

Believable theory & hardware?

You've said it made you think & I hope that’s a good thing, but was it worth your exertion & would you want to read more tales of the Elastic Limit of Time OR after the deed, are you now done with your hair pulled out as a result of the effort?

In other words, did I get the Myth right?

Just wondering.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

How is this book an Epic & how a Fable?

I suppose it a mix of both. Epic by the fact that you have built a very believable world and introduced "real" characters with motivations, you did that rather quickly. I pointed out in an earlier post usually if you want to go truly epic you need multiple volumes and lots of characters, but despite the limited lets say "geography" the book felt epic.

By contrast, a fable should be a short story to teach a moral. I suppose it fit that bill as well. I was frustrated to be honest because as I read the first few chapters I felt like you were sharing the punchline without telling me the joke. Once I started in on the joke, I understood this book is a thinker and that I needed to go get my answers, not just be fed them. Maybe its my lazy nature but I did not like working for answers...but maybe the best books are the ones that make us think. Perhaps the whole book is to answer the question you proposed in the introduction...What is Justice?

What literary tools (a la the ‘mcguffin’) were employed to convey a universally human connotation?

I suppose you wanted me to be pulled in by Spencer's plight. I was...What is he doing? What is he looking for. Why is he alone, why is under such pressure? I felt better after reading the titles of the parts...The beginning was part 3.

Play on words (Archie Spume, the Deferent, etc.) work for you or lost on you?

I guess I am in the lost column on the play on words...I saw Archie as a no nonsense "truck" driver and he just enjoyed following orders. He was in love with Judith but who wasnt...

Believable theory & hardware?

I understood the river theory and a bomb displacing the water...I felt a lot of part 3 was a lecture, I complained about the boring meetings...Like explaining to Jargon how the Malignment manifold works on a Jesper goober eggon. You don't explain it. You show it. You made the theory and hardware very believable because you explained so much of it you had to know your "science".

You've said it made you think & I hope that’s a good thing, but was it worth your exertion & would you want to read more tales of the Elastic Limit of Time OR after the deed, are you now done with your hair pulled out as a result of the effort?

In other words, did I get the Myth right?

I am very satisfied like after a big meal. My elastic limit has been stretched and I need a nap. I think the effort was worth it, however knowing what effort is expected, I am excited to read some popcorn action no brainer books.

I did not predict the end, nor would I have in a million years. Perhaps, the book is about faith and what we all believe. I suppose we all get to decide for ourselves.

[Howard]

Lincoln, thanks for your candor, I'll return the favor & answer my own questions come the 15th, the end of this month's read.

Take some time & then read my 2nd attempt, it's totally different in character & thrust.

As I told Paul after he read this one, with the next one I learned you can have an Epic Fable that's less pretentious & more straight forward.

Thanks for your effort with this one, it's appreciated.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Excited for your answers Howard...What is your objective as far as what you hope to get across to your readers?

[Howard]

Lincoln wants to know my objective:

Lincoln, as I related in my first post, I wanted a compelling read, something different from the standard fare found in other examples of the genre.

From your comments along the way I thought I'd done so, but then, given your reaction it seems that in your case I failed.

But thanks again for your effort, as I've said.

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

I don't think you failed me. Your book is definitely not standard fare! There were parts of the book I didn't particularly enjoy but that's true of most books.

I suppose I am used to stories having the pay off in the end. Your book forces the reader to make his own assumptions about things.

The mandate, The quest etc.

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "As I told Paul after he read this one, with the next one I learned you can have an Epic Fable that's less pretentious & more straight forward...."

Let the record show . . . if it please the court (and Primus) . . . at no time did I find BEL pretentious in the least. Original, challenging, thought-provoking, and satisfying, are terms that do come to mind. And it's not standard fare, I'd agree. It was a surprise, actually, so thank you for that. Looking forward to the next one. PEL is in the queue.

[Howard]

Lincoln thinks it strange that given his positive remarks I think I failed him:

Sorry Lincoln, I just believe your rating is a paradox given your comments, which were on the whole positive; employing such phrases as ‘I am riveted’ & 'I am very satisfied like after a big meal' & ‘I am enjoying the book because quite literally anything can happen’ etc.

Also, along the way you constantly assumed plot turns incorrectly, a good thing from my point of view & something any author would like to hear.

No problem with the various Time Traveling elements, nor the action which, by your description was ‘nothing but.’

Now, I understand why you didn’t understand why the book was presented as it was, for you failed to read the title of each part, but given that TIME HAS EXPLODED, I think that twist fits.

It would be different if you’d said otherwise & you certainly have the right to your own opinion, yet this makes no sense to me, hence the paradox.

Do you usually rate a book 2 stars because it makes you think?

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Did I give it two? My intention was 3. I will go fix it right now.

[Howard]

Paul states: 'PEL is in the queue'

Paul, thanks, my Time Fistula has already revealed that you'd downloaded it.

Also, your reaction after it's read.

Heh heh heh

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "Paul states: 'PEL is in the queue' Paul, thanks, my Time Fistula has already revealed . . . . your reaction after it's read."

Great. Did I like it?

[Howard]

Paul wonders if he liked it:

Ask Harriet, she'd know.

Heh heh heh

[Paul]

Howard wrote: "Paul wonders if he liked it:

Ask Harriett, she'd know."

She'd probably laugh at me. You know how she is.

Which reminds me, you guys reading "Kindred" for November? I'm about 25% in and totally enjoying it. Excellent writing. I see the Time Travel scenes (so far) take place in the same eastern edge of Maryland that Harriet Tubman (and other famous freedom fighters) were from. Not that she has anything to do with the story, but it's a time and place I'm familiar with from my own research. May we all get past those sad chapters of our history some day.

[Howard]

Paul, remembering the past is not a bad thing, especially so if it's a gruesome one.

We are not our past & should never fear it, no matter how bad it was but boldly look it in the face, as it were.

Not looking, even for the best of intentions, is when it could be replicated.

Harriet knows this.

And she does laugh at you a lot.

[Howard]

I guess no one else is keeping up so here’s the answers to the questions I posted, the last few with spoilers:

How is this book an Epic & how a Fable?

Fables are simple tales with a moral or moral lesson attached & each storyline in this book is simply told, dialogue driven with little description & each character therein is forced find his own Moral premise.

Epics have universal appeal, dealing with highly relatable, collective circumstance, that is, human conditions everyone may recognize no matter their situation & again, this is true in this book.

What literary tools (a la the ‘mcguffin’) were employed to convey a universally human connotation?

(view spoiler)[ The mcguffin, Hitchcock’s term, is obviously the water, that thing in the book that holds everyone’s attention & drives all of the action - as it’s the only key to solving the problem - yet as a reader it’s not that important.

Water is also a well-used, universal metaphor, having been employed throughout time & history in every human society & so is bread (he is a baker & bread is mentioned many times) or darkness & light (characters are 'plunged into darkness' on several occasions & Spencer's 'big idea' comes in the dark, etc.), just to name a few more that I selected.

Also, as I’ve already stated, ‘this is what I do so this is my name’ is the oldest of human conventions, thus also universal in nature. (hide spoiler)]

Play on words (Archie Spume, the Deferent, etc.) work for you or lost on you?

(view spoiler)[ Spume is beer foam, or technically any foam on liquid, as ocean froth or scum on a river, etc.

In chemistry, a Deferent is the opposite of a Catalyst & using it slows down a reaction as opposed to speeding it up.

I like to play on words & used this devise a lot & examples are to be found throughout the book. (hide spoiler)]

Believable theory & hardware?

(view spoiler)[ Here’s one way I differ greatly from Paul, last month’s author, for this is well explained in the book: the theory, the machine, it’s true purpose, its power source, etc.

This aspect when badly done in other works usually blows it for me. (hide spoiler)]

Did I get the Myth right?

(view spoiler)[ By definition, Myth is a story told repeatedly for a purpose & has nothing to do with the effort being true or false.

For example, theologians speak of ‘the Jesus Myth’ & they’re not casting a negative connotation, just stating a fact.

That being said, as I related there’s good & bad examples of its use & I think I got the rules right.

If you disagree, just point out where & I’ll then defend my usage. (hide spoiler)]

[Lincoln, Temporal Jester]

Yeah I was lost on the word play suppose I should of looked up a few things. Thanks Howard it was quite the epic fable.

Don't worry I won't let him kill you.

[Howard]

Thanks for giving it your Time, Lincoln.

Heh heh heh