Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion
SF/F Book Recommendations
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Sci-Fi with NO ROMANCE -> Dystopian Musings
anything pre-1950s
serious...no joke...
serious...no joke...
back in the 30s and 40s the fans would hang ya if you had any hint of a serious love story, the distyopian stuff didnt get into full swing til around the 50s (there were exceptions), and rocket-ships were EVERYWHERE
Asimov, Robert Hineline, Fredric Brown, Edmond Hamilton, Henry Kutter, EBR (not the Tarzan books), earily Theodore Sturgeon...
Not Heinlein's adult books, they always have sexual people, many times in polygamous marriages.Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card is good.
Without knowing exactly what age of teen, I'm reluctant to suggest much adult scifi, since a lot of it has adult situations, even if romance is not the focus, or even very important to the plot.
Spooky1947 wrote: "EBR (not the Tarzan books)..."
if you ignore the fact that every Edgar Rice Burroughs (ERB) character immediately picks up the hottest chick on the planet/island/jungle....
if you ignore the fact that every Edgar Rice Burroughs (ERB) character immediately picks up the hottest chick on the planet/island/jungle....
yea, G33, but EBRs book have a high kick-@$$ factor...makes up for the hot chicks
RAH didnt get all sexual til later
RAH didnt get all sexual til later
The old EE Doc Smith (First Lensman, The Skylark of Space) would meet your basic criteria, but they are so old that I think that its prose would seem ancient & stilted to modern teen.
Early Asimov is a good bet, such as Foundation, the Galactic Empire novels The Stars, Like Dust, Pebble in the Sky, or his original Robot novels The Caves of Steel & The Naked Sun, or robot short story collections (I prefer the Robot Dreams & Robot Visions collections, which are more complete than the earlier I, Robot/Rest of the Robots). Asimov was unfailingly optimistic.
Early Heinlein, such as Space Cadet, Tunnel in the Sky, Starman Jones, which were called his "juveniles" at the time (I think they'd be called YA these days.) Heinlein's later works, as has been noted, took a turn towards unconventional marriage arrangements.
H Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy is a fun read.
Slightly more recent, Larry Niven's Ringworld and his other Known Space books.
Early Asimov is a good bet, such as Foundation, the Galactic Empire novels The Stars, Like Dust, Pebble in the Sky, or his original Robot novels The Caves of Steel & The Naked Sun, or robot short story collections (I prefer the Robot Dreams & Robot Visions collections, which are more complete than the earlier I, Robot/Rest of the Robots). Asimov was unfailingly optimistic.
Early Heinlein, such as Space Cadet, Tunnel in the Sky, Starman Jones, which were called his "juveniles" at the time (I think they'd be called YA these days.) Heinlein's later works, as has been noted, took a turn towards unconventional marriage arrangements.
H Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy is a fun read.
Slightly more recent, Larry Niven's Ringworld and his other Known Space books.
asimov's and greenburg's The Great SF Stories (26 vols)
The Best of.... series (best of c. l. moore, best of fredric brown, there were tons of em, all by del Rey books)
all great short story collections, taken together a fine overview of good short SF
The Best of.... series (best of c. l. moore, best of fredric brown, there were tons of em, all by del Rey books)
all great short story collections, taken together a fine overview of good short SF
If you like short stories you might like Ray Bradbury. The Martian Chronicles especially, but the Illustrated Man also has some space stories too.
Seems to me your criteria are the scifi reading equivalent of trying to make the kids "eat healthy".You might get the little buggers to nibble some carrot sticks, but I'd wager they're still gonna sneak some fatburgers with greasy carbs.
It's what they do. It's who they are. Resistance is futile! :}
E.D. if that's the case, then SF fans have sure changed since my day....we didn't l.p. ut up with any of that love-dovey stuff in OUR sf when I was a teen, and WE thought Asimov, RAH, ect. was pure skull-bust 'em bubble gum...
now, you young space cadets get off my lawn!!
(the old phart drifts off to sleep in his rocket-powered rocking chair...)
now, you young space cadets get off my lawn!!
(the old phart drifts off to sleep in his rocket-powered rocking chair...)
Armor by John SteakleyOld Man's War by John Scalzi plus other books of his.
My kids & their friends grew up reading my SF & fantasy books, so I can probably come up with some better ideas, but it helps to know the kid(s) better, so tell us more about the teen(s). Boy, girl, or are you trying to make a list for a class, thus keeping sex out due to control & parents? If singular, what are age & interests?
Romance or no romance, I'm finding my inability to think of any YA-ish space-oriented science fiction in the last decade or two. It seems dystopia has taken over almost completely (Hunger Games, Divergent, Maze Runner, Uglies,...)
Doesn't anyone want to go to the stars anymore? Or has NASA and ESA made the realities of space exploration that dull?
Doesn't anyone want to go to the stars anymore? Or has NASA and ESA made the realities of space exploration that dull?
Jim wrote: "Old Man's War by John Scalzi plus other books of his...."
A good deal of casual sex among the rejuvenated oldsters, (view spoiler)
A good deal of casual sex among the rejuvenated oldsters, (view spoiler)
I ahve always enjoyed the Pip and Flinx novels by Alan Dean Foster which starts with For Love of Mother-Not and has lots of additional books within the series (some better than others).
All of Foster's books are pretty G rated, aren't they? I haven't read any in years, though.
He includes quite a bit of action and violence scenes but it is G rated when it comes to any romance or sex.
This one should fit your requirements. I thought it was a great story and you can get the ebook for a buck on Amazon Earthman Jack vs. The Ghost Planet
H.M. Hoover wrote juvenile sci-fi novels that I ate up as kid. I'm not sure how well they stand up to time, but they definitely made an impact on me. Although geared to young readers, they weren't exactly light reading; my favorite, Another Heaven, Another Earth, dealt with the cultural and environmental impact an exploration team had on the planet they visited. Older teens would probably find these too juvenile.How about Andre Norton? Most of her early sci-fi seems very YA-friendly to me. (Please correct me if there are troublesome issues or romances I'm not remembering! Also, what does the group think about The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? I remember the comedy there, not any strongly adult themes.)
Anne McCaffrey's Pegasus in Flight, which has psychically "talented" teens playing a role in the space program, seems like it might be a good fit. (Note that her popular Dragonriders of Pern series definitely does contain sex and romance! There are some tamer YA-geared books in the series, like The Masterharper of Pern, but in my opinion these have more of a fantasy than sci-fi vibe.)
Just a note on Asimov, I recently read The Naked Sun, and even in his introduction to the novel Asimov called it a romance. (I think we're in the habit of thinking of classic SF as lacking romance plots, when it some cases it's just that those plots and the women involved in them are so clearly of minor interest.) This doesn't mean I would suggest teens avoid it -- asking for books without romance is a bit like asking for books without life-and-death situations!
i am reminded of a story asimov told one...he had to give a talk to a 6th grade science class..in the Q and A session, one kid said he didnt like a artical asimov had writen titled "Sex in Space"...asimov said he felt like a deer in a cars headlights, that he had somehow wounded his young fan by writeing such smut...so asimov asked the kid what he didnt like about it...kid says "it wasn't dirty enough"
true story
true story
Like I said...resistance is futile. And that was probably before 6th graders had access to internet porn! :}
nope...it means the The Good Doctor, ladies man though he was, his mind wasnt nearly as dirty as he let on....and same for the "romance" in his books
E.D. wrote: "Seems to me your criteria are the scifi reading equivalent of trying to make the kids "eat healthy".You might get the little buggers to nibble some carrot sticks, but I'd wager they're still gonn..."
E.D. wrote: "Seems to me your criteria are the scifi reading equivalent of trying to make the kids "eat healthy".
You might get the little buggers to nibble some carrot sticks, but I'd wager they're still gonn..."
It's actually for me! I can't abide romance. I am doing a Children's Lit Essay for Uni and have decided to do it on the science (be it real or fantasy) in Sci-Fi for teens under 16yo. I have to read A LOT of these books in order to make generalizations and comparisons and I swear if I read another 'love triangle involving girl with special powers in an oppressive society' books I'm gonna hurl. (I should have but this in the original post)
G33z3r wrote: "Romance or no romance, I'm finding my inability to think of any YA-ish space-oriented science fiction in the last decade or two. It seems dystopia has taken over almost completely (Hunger Games, Di..."I know! Space exploration FTW! Why all this doom and gloom about the (fictional) future?
That's a big help, Spook1947, thank you!! <3
Weeellll..., that's a FireMare of a whole different color! Though I still think current day teens are a bunch of horndogs, I fully support trying to pull them from their dystopian hellholes and get them looking forward to the cold, empty, vastness of space. :}
if you can find someone with a old pulp magazine collection (or micro films) Amazing Stories with Ray Palmer as editor (back in the 40s i think) as well as Thrilling Wonder Stories from about the same time was considered "kid's stuff" (teens...not all of it mind you, but mostly)...Astounding Stories (or Astounding Science Fiction, later Analog...lots of name changes that one) under John W Campbell was the grown-up stuff...think "gosh-wow-boy-o-boy" vs. more thoughtful fiction.
even so, keep in mind the average teen reading SF is likely a more intelligent and thoughtful reader than your average teen reader.
even so, keep in mind the average teen reading SF is likely a more intelligent and thoughtful reader than your average teen reader.
Spooky & AJ, you've got me chuckling over Asimov at middle school & dystopian love triangles Also, can someone tell me how you do the thing where you quote someone else's post? Are you just using copy-and-paste and adding italics, or is there a short cut?
Hillary wrote: "can someone tell me how you do the thing where you quote someone else's post? Are you just using copy-and-paste and adding italics, or is there a short cut?..."
Off to the right below each message you should see some small text: "reply | flag". (If it's your own post, you'll see " reply | edit | delete | flag" instead.) If you click on the "reply", Goodreads will add the italicized, credited text to the top of the comment text box at the bottom of the page, including the first few lines of the message you're replying to. Then you can add your reply below that. (If I specifically want to reply to something other than the very first line of the message, I'll copy & paste of the exact comment I wanted to reply to over the quoted text, as I've done in this case.)
Clicking "edit" under your own message will let you make corrections. "Delete" removes your message entirely. "Flag" marks the message to Goodreads Employees for review to see if it violates Goodreads terms of service.
Off to the right below each message you should see some small text: "reply | flag". (If it's your own post, you'll see " reply | edit | delete | flag" instead.) If you click on the "reply", Goodreads will add the italicized, credited text to the top of the comment text box at the bottom of the page, including the first few lines of the message you're replying to. Then you can add your reply below that. (If I specifically want to reply to something other than the very first line of the message, I'll copy & paste of the exact comment I wanted to reply to over the quoted text, as I've done in this case.)
Clicking "edit" under your own message will let you make corrections. "Delete" removes your message entirely. "Flag" marks the message to Goodreads Employees for review to see if it violates Goodreads terms of service.
G33z3r wrote: "Hillary wrote: "can someone tell me how you do the thing where you quote someone else's post? Are you just using copy-and-paste and adding italics, or is there a short cut?..."Off to the right be..."
Thanks, G33z3r!
Enders Game series, no sex at all until you get to Xenocide (unless you include alien reproduction in Speaker for the Dead). Actually, speaking of alien reproduction, assume your dislike of Romance is purely human???Madeline L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time (although there is a bit of romance bw two characters, its kept pretty low-key).
Good luck!
R.L. wrote: "Actually, speaking of alien reproduction, assume your dislike of Romance is purely human???"
Good question. I had thought to suggest Bujold's Falling Free, but then I recalled there's a Quaddie romance as a plot complication.... :)
Good question. I had thought to suggest Bujold's Falling Free, but then I recalled there's a Quaddie romance as a plot complication.... :)
R.L. wrote: Actually, speaking of alien reproduction, assume your dislike of Romanc..."Human or non-human as long as it's not a major part of the plot, it's okay.
Thanks everyone for all your suggestions for authors/titles/time periods. I really appreciate the time you all took to answer and share your knowledge with me. It's a great help!
you're welcome it was fun; hope it helps!. Makes me think...hmm there's a gap in the market for good old-fashioned sci-fi :)Good luck
To get more specific on Andre Norton, you might try her Catseye, Dread Companion, or Ice Crown. The last two have romantic elements but they are seriously downplayed. Rick Cook has some serious space exploration elements in Limbo System -- and no romance at all. Poul Anderson's After Doomsday -- true, the men and women spend the entire book looking for each other, but that's not romantic attachment, but desire for the continuation of the human race.
G33z3r wrote: "Romance or no romance, I'm finding my inability to think of any YA-ish space-oriented science fiction in the last decade or two. It seems dystopia has taken over almost completely (Hunger Games, Di..."Look what happened to the space program. We went to the moon and left it at that. Now we're turning to commercialized space flights, but no ones writing about it. We're stuck worrying about what happens when our planet is overcrowded instead of looking to the stars. (sigh)
Sarah wrote: "G33z3r wrote: "Romance or no romance, I'm finding my inability to think of any YA-ish space-oriented science fiction in the last decade or two. It seems dystopia has taken over almost completely (H..."The tendency to not write about space flight preceded the decline and may, in fact, have helped drive it.
OTOH, it may have been that the Apollo programs were the Viking colonization of Newfoundland -- too early, before we really had the tech to pull it off.
Sarah wrote: "Now we're turning to commercialized space flights, but no ones writing about it. We're stuck worrying about what happens when our planet is overcrowded instead of looking to the stars...."
In some ways, it's almost a good sign that there's no news coverage of our current spaceflight activities (though the recent Indian Mars mission got some coverage.) Lack of news coverage means that the technology has become mature, stable, and routine; no longer remarkable.
I'd also like to think we can think about more than one thing at a time, and worry about our home planet (overpopulation, global warming, pollution, disease, war, malnutrition) at the same time we think about expanding off of it.
They're still a good deal of space opera sci-fi being written (Bujold, Scalzi, Reynolds, Corey, Rusch, Weber, Campbell, Moon, and new novels just this month by Leckie & Bach et al). It's just that it doesn't seem to be very popular in YA, which I find makes me sad.
In some ways, it's almost a good sign that there's no news coverage of our current spaceflight activities (though the recent Indian Mars mission got some coverage.) Lack of news coverage means that the technology has become mature, stable, and routine; no longer remarkable.
I'd also like to think we can think about more than one thing at a time, and worry about our home planet (overpopulation, global warming, pollution, disease, war, malnutrition) at the same time we think about expanding off of it.
They're still a good deal of space opera sci-fi being written (Bujold, Scalzi, Reynolds, Corey, Rusch, Weber, Campbell, Moon, and new novels just this month by Leckie & Bach et al). It's just that it doesn't seem to be very popular in YA, which I find makes me sad.
G33z3r wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Now we're turning to commercialized space flights, but no ones writing about it. We're stuck worrying about what happens when our planet is overcrowded instead of looking to the stars..."It's what is popular in YA that makes me sad. All about "hot". Dystopian hellholes..vampires..., no plot, just "hot".
Anyway, Star Wars was daddy's thing...so, space is sooooo uncool. A shirtless Yoda is totally "not hot". :}
Faye wrote: "I am a YA and I kinda agree with you guys. I absolutely hate reading about vampires, zombies, and ghosts. I don't see the joy or entertainment in it. As for the Dystopian books here me out. I like ..."Try some of the older stuff. it once was commonplace.
IMO, the hope of true space flight is dead. We went to the moon in 1969, quit going in the earily 1970s, and we have been playing tinker-toys in low-earth orbit ever since...i do not consider robot probes space flight. We have yet to build a space craft worthy of the name.
On the other hand, we have passed 7 BILLION population, far surpassing the carrying capacity of our planet, we are running through our planet's resources at a rapid rate, and destroying our biosphere in more ways than I can count.
I am convinced it is much more likely the human race will find itself back in the stone age (or bring about its own distruction) than reach out to the stars in any real way.
It is no wonder the YA crowd eats up the dystopian fiction. It is the future we are giving them. And it kills me...we humans could have really amounted to something...
On the other hand, we have passed 7 BILLION population, far surpassing the carrying capacity of our planet, we are running through our planet's resources at a rapid rate, and destroying our biosphere in more ways than I can count.
I am convinced it is much more likely the human race will find itself back in the stone age (or bring about its own distruction) than reach out to the stars in any real way.
It is no wonder the YA crowd eats up the dystopian fiction. It is the future we are giving them. And it kills me...we humans could have really amounted to something...
Spooky1947 wrote: "I am convinced it is much more likely the human race will find itself back in the stone age (or bring about its own destruction) than reach out to the stars in any real way."What can we do about it?
What can be done about it? Realisticly, nothing. From what this oldphart has seen, most people are just plain too stupid to understand the issues involved, or worse, dont care. The human race is doomed to being stuck on this planet, wallowing in its own waste. We will be writen off as a failed species soon enough.
Sarah wrote: "What can we do about it? "Write the YA you want to read!
That's how Tolkien and Lewis got started, once you drop the genre specification.
Spooky1947 wrote: "What can be done about it? Realisticly, nothing. From what this oldphart has seen, most people are just plain too stupid to understand the issues involved, or worse, dont care. The human race is do..."We'll get there, Spook. We'll probably spread herpes or something that'll be fatal to other civilizations, though.
Then we can name sports teams after the K'Dolti'poots to honor their once great culture.
We'll call it "The Earthman's Burden". :}
Spooky1947 wrote: "What can be done about it? Realisticly, nothing. From what this oldphart has seen, most people are just plain too stupid to understand the issues involved, or worse, dont care. The human race is do..."I don't think idiocy or apathy are the only or even the main factors to blame. It's economics & biological imperatives.
Any changes in the status quo change the economic situation. Stop burning coal, the miners are out of work. Want to use alternative energy? Can you afford it? I can't. I looked into putting wind turbines up & the break even point was too far off to make it worthwhile.
That leads to the imperative, keeping my family fed NOW. Yes, I can plan ahead somewhat, but there are a lot of possibilities for the future. Paying the bills & making sure the family secure today is the priority, though.
I though Heinlein really had something in Friday with his sun stones. (Not much romance, but a fair amount of sex. IMO, Heinlein couldn't write romance of any sort.) An energy source like that would rule mankind.
Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
The Limits to Growth: A Report for the Club of Rome's Project on the Predicament of Mankind (other topics)Gravity Dreams (other topics)
World Made by Hand (other topics)
Make Room! Make Room! (other topics)
Tunnel in the Sky (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
L.E. Modesitt Jr. (other topics)Andre Norton (other topics)
Rick Cook (other topics)
Poul Anderson (other topics)
Andre Norton (other topics)
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I'm looking for some recommendations for sci-fi books for teens and thought this would be a good forum to ask for help. You guys seem to know what you're talking about! I'm looking for books that fulfill some (or all!)of the following:
1. has no or little romantic sub-plot
2. is not set in a dystopian society
3. involves space exploration, though this does not have to be that main plot of the story
I'd appreciate an suggestions you could give.
Thanks :)
AJ
Edit for those asking for more info:
I am doing a Children's Lit Essay for Uni and have decided to do it on the science (be it real or fantasy) in Sci-Fi for teens under 16yo. I have to read A LOT of these books in order to make generalizations and comparisons and I swear if I read another 'love triangle involving girl with special powers in an oppressive society' books I'm gonna hurl. Hence, the no romance rule.
I asked for space exploration because I can find plenty of Sci-Fi stories about gene mutations, eugenics and AI but hardly any about, what I thought was going to be the main topic, space.