The Most Overrated Books Showing 4,751-4,800 of 5,680

[Donald]

Too funny.

[Monty J]

Julia wrote: "Now it has become dated and irrelevant."


Your comments infer a degree class prejudice.

On what basis do we dismiss the lives of the upper-middle class as irrelevant? They have feelings just the same as anyone else.


" Now that minorities and their history have found some voice and purchase on the cliffs of popular culture, the idea of reading about a whiny white prep school kid seems ridiculous."

(Funny, I felt that way when I first read CiTR at age 19. But not now.) When we dismiss a masterpiece because of race and class, it diminishes us and closes off an opportunity for human understanding.

I'm not sure what minorities you're referring to, but African Americans have had a prominent place in popular culture for decades, particularly in music--Bebop, rhythm and blues, jazz, Motown, rock, Hip-Hop. Is sports not popular culture?

I would like to see more literature from and about not just racial minorities, but about the poor. America's underclass is growing as we speak, a saddening trend for what was once a land of opportunity.

There is room in literature for every segment of society. On what basis does one segment getting more attention render another less relevant?

[Mochaspresso]

Don wrote: "I wish people would understand the difference between a fad and a classic."

The problem is that every once in a while, what many write off as just being a fad at the time sometimes does eventually become a classic. Hip-hop music was written off as a fad in the 70's and 80's and now there are rappers in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

[Karen]

Monty wrote;
"On what basis do you dismiss the lives of the upper-middle class? They have feelings just the same as anyone else.

I'm not sure what minorities you're referring to, but African Americans have had a prominent place in popular culture for decades, particularly in music--Bebop, rhythm and blues, jazz, Motown, rock, Hip-Hop. Is sports not popular culture?

There is room in literature for every segment of society. One segment getting more attention doesn't render an other irrelevant."

Monty, you said this much better than I did!

[Karen]

Michael wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "An unabashed truism about vampire stories. They truly suck."

Moby Dick blows."

Hahahahaha!

[Mochaspresso]

Renee wrote: "And yet, there are those who tell those who write that they should strive to write more like Meyer, use her as a guide, in essence . . . /facepalm"

In what capacity? What did they say she did well?

[Renee E]

Mochaspresso wrote: "Renee wrote: "And yet, there are those who tell those who write that they should strive to write more like Meyer, use her as a guide, in essence . . . /facepalm"

In what capacity? What did they s..."

Everything, lol. Fanboy. Her story, her characters, the whole bit.

And then there was the irrefutable (HA!) argument that she made shittons of money, which obviously proves that Twilight is a great work. /rolls eyes

Pretty sure if everything was as well written as Twilight I'd be compelled to stop reading.

[Mary Ann]

Twilight! Really, guys? It's good, but overrated. Catcher on the Rye however, as opposed to what the others think is funny, insightful, choc-ful o' metaphors that's its going to make your head spin if you're not 100% submerged in the book.

I haven't read Waiting for Godot. NOW I have to move it up my reading list. Intrigued, I guess. ;)

[Mary Ann]

Kallie wrote: "There is a big difference between thinking something overrated, and being dismissive because I don't get a books's message or enjoy its style. I consider it important to leave some space in my min..."

Kallie, I think I love you! :D

[Renee E]

Mary wrote: "Kallie wrote: "There is a big difference between thinking something overrated, and being dismissive because I don't get a books's message or enjoy its style. I consider it important to leave some ...

Kallie, I think I love you! :D "

Of course! Kallie is an insightful, thoughtful, kind and profoundly decent human being with wonderful senses of humor and proportion. :-)

[Mary Ann]

Renee wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kallie wrote: "There is a big difference between thinking something overrated, and being dismissive because I don't get a books's message or enjoy its style. I consider it important t..."

"...and proportion", Renee? That made all the other adjectives much more interesting. Haha Thank you. May you have a beautiful, full-of-wonderful-surprises day. You just started mine. :)

[Kallie]

Renee wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kallie wrote: "There is a big difference between thinking something overrated, and being dismissive because I don't get a books's message or enjoy its style. I consider it important t..."

Thanks, Renee and Mary, for the warm 'good morning.'

[Mochaspresso]

Renee wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Renee wrote: "And yet, there are those who tell those who write that they should strive to write more like Meyer, use her as a guide, in essence . . . /facepalm"

In what capa..."


Well, story and characters are important. So is creating characters and a story that many people seem to want to read. Millions in sales doesn't automatically make something good....but millions in sales shouldn't be dismissed either. If something sold THAT much, perhaps there is something in it that others can see, even if I can't.

Here is what I personally think she did well...

1) I think she did a good job of world-building and creating her own unique brand of vampire lore and she did so in an aged appropriate manner. Critics like to focus only on the sparkling, but in the books she also gives them a well developed background and a history. Most of the major vampire characters are very well developed. The Twilight vampire world also has a hierarchy, a system of laws and rules and a system of governance and justice.

2) I also think she did a good job of developing her characters. This has nothing to do with whether I liked them or whether I personally thought they were "good" people. I didn't like Bella and thought she was angsty and whiny. I also think the Mary Sue criticisms are valid.....but despite that, I did think that Bella's character was very well developed and goes through a pronounced arc. (insecure damsel in distress girl who always has to be saved to confident woman who fights and saves everyone.)

3) There are themes about friendship and familial loyalty and how those ties are formed and can be broken. There are also themes about humanity, sacrifice, personal choice, courage and good vs evil.

Having said this, I think Twilight is fine for a personal reading choice. Maybe even for including on a summer reading list. Should it be taught in school as "classic literature"? Depends on the grade level in question and what book you're proposing to replace and why. (Personally, if it is used in schools, I would prefer it in middle school rather than HS and as an alternative for low level/reluctant readers to teach generic things like character traits, theme, setting, plot development etc.) It also depends on what the lesson focuses will be. For example, if your lesson focus is the genre of gothic literature, I would be opposed to including this in the curriculum. On the other hand, there are plenty of literary allusions in Twilight. I think a creative teacher could make a case for using an excerpt from Twilight to introduce Jane Eyre or Romeo and Juliet. Will it become "classic literature"? I'm not so quick to dismiss the possibility because I really do believe the definitions and parameters are changing even as we speak. It might become a classic for being a prominent bestseller in it's genre. It might become a classic for sparking debates about feminism. (...and to this day, I still think there is something to the fact that many of the prominent "boy books"--Percy Jackson, Maze Runner etc have many of the same elements as Twilight yet don't receive as much scrutiny or criticism.)

[Petergiaquinta]

Well argued, Mocha, and I type these words in recognition that by writing all this you have just extended that 100-year window of relevance for Twilight for another fortnight or two...

[Donald]

I have taught middle school through college literature for most of my life. Choosing diverse, profound literature that will stand the test of time is relatively easy because, world wide, there is such a great selection of incredibly well written, powerful literature. Much young adult literature written today doesn't stand up in scrutiny against the works. It's like, to use another media, putting Two And A Half Men up against Mad Men or Breaking Bad and calling them equally valuable. If I want my students to grow intellectually and emotionally, why would I give them garbage when they could have treasure?

[Karen]

As an educational assistant in a middle school for the past 17 years I can honestly say that Twilight would probably never be taught as literature- but, it would be and is encouraged by teachers for a personal reading choice, and the reader of it has to keep a reading log and answer questions regarding the book.

[Mochaspresso]

Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely indicative of relevance or current ability. Rappers, hip-hoppers, et al had their heyday 30 years ago, yet go on selling CD's to those who cannot find anything else sufficiently bad-ass. Maybe the fault of the creative; maybe the fault of the audience. What-f******-ever; same result.

Hip-hop music is still in it's heyday. It's just that you can't tell because it's become so mainstream and commonplace that it's impossible to differentiate from "pop". The hottest rap songs get aired on the same stations as the hottest Taylor Swift and One Direction songs. Something that NEVER used to happen 30 years ago. "Bad-ass" is not necessarily the goal or most desired image anymore. American hip-hop music is not really the same voice of the disenfranchised that it originally was. Some of those "disenfranchised" eventually managed to move on up to the suburbs, have kids and those kids are now the ones making the most popular hip-hop music. You can hear the different generations (...and socio-economic levels) in the lyrics when you compare a recent song to an older one.

I'm not one to advise, believe me on that. But, Mocha, go on reading, maybe write. Yeah, some of the big hit are ludicrous, but some of them have their merits. The readers and the reviewers are the judges; and over time theirs are the thoughts that will prevail.


I think I might be a bit too idealistic to write. Maybe the right words are actually narcissistic and delusional? I have these crazy notions that I would just write for me and everyone else and their opinions be damned. Then someone finds the manuscripts long after I'm gone.

[Michael]

Someone has to write for future generations.

Take Moby Dick, considered by many to be one of the greatest novels. The British printing of 500 copies sold fewer than 300 in the first four months after publication. According to Wikipedia:

"Moby-Dick was out of print during the last four years of Melville's life, having sold 2,300 in its first year and a half and on average 27 copies a year for the next 34 years, totaling 3,215 copies."

It's clear that some authors are ahead of their times. That certainly doesn't negate the value of their works. Another obvious example, in the fine arts, is Vincent van Gogh. Now considered one of the greatest painters of all all time, he only sold one painting in his lifetime. We are all so lucky that he did not let his financial "failure" deter him from creating his works.

[Karen]

Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely indicative of relevance or current ability. Rappers, hip-hoppers, et al h..."

Keep posting like this Mocha- your posts are insightful and perceptive, and I have really enjoyed reading them.

[Mochaspresso]

Karen wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely indicative of relevance or current ability. Rappers..."

Well, thanks!! I have my lucid moments, I guess. :)

[Mochaspresso]

Edward wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely indicative of relevance or current ability. Rappers..."

Honestly, where do you start? I don't even know what I'd like to write about. When I was a special education teacher, I used to find myself having to re-write chapters from the science and social studies textbooks on a lower level for some students so they could learn the same content as the other children and always felt that there was a need for something like that. Originally, I sought out non-fiction trade books but it became too expensive a prospect.

[Kallie]

Mocha, though we have disagreed (about Jane Austen) I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your posts and your gracious manner.

I think it's great that you re-wrote text for your students and took the trouble to simplify and/or illustrate. Not all have the same reading ability, which doesn't mean they aren't smart enough to understand the subject matter.

[Renee E]

Kudos, Mocha, for taking that on.

Textbook writing is often lamentable, even for the student body it's aimed at. It's hard to imagine special ed students having to use them. Honestly, until you posted that, I thought there WERE separate texts, or at least supplemental ones.

If you've got a talent for doing that . . . maybe you need a grant to pursue it!

[Monty J]

Mochaspresso wrote: "I don't even know what I'd like to write about."

Write about what you care about, what evokes an emotional response within you, makes you feel something--joy, laughter, sadness, fear, outrage, elation, love, wonder, curiosity, things that make the pulse pound, the mind expand. Find an book you revere, who's author you admire, and study how it was done and use it for a map, not to copy but as a starting place. You have license to create something no one has done before. Your life experience is unique but has parallels with every other human being.

Write the book Michael Brown and Darren Wilson should have read that would have kept them from their fateful encounter that day in Ferguson.

[Karen]

Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely indicative of relevance or current a..."

I think you were a good teacher for doing that! There's not a lot of time for that in the school day, so you worked hard. Most texts are above these student' s reading level, and I spend most of my time re-wording passages out of the text for kids.

[Heidi]

Mochaspresso wrote: "Karen wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely indicative of relevance or current ab..."

Every writer feels lost. I think that's why many notable artists suffer - they have so many ideas, they have the will to write, but when paper and pen appear in front of them... it's difficult, to say the least.
Something that really helps me is to keep a journal and to write in it every day. About absolutely anything at all - my day, observations, something cool a stranger said. Rereading it, I find that there are a few subjects that I'd like to expand on - maybe into essays, adapting it into a short story. It's worth a shot!

[Mochaspresso]

Thanks for the encouragement. It's awesome. Perhaps I will start small. A reading journal/sketchbook and see what happens.

[Kallie]

Mochaspresso wrote: "Thanks for the encouragement. It's awesome. Perhaps I will start small. A reading journal/sketchbook and see what happens."

Lynda Barry's new book ('Syllabus') is inspiring as a journal/sketchbook

[T.D.]

Well, I've been reading "Something Wicked This Way Comes" for nearly a month now...

Generally, when I find a book enjoyable or at least tolerable, it takes me no more than a week to get through it, lol.

[H.]

I agree with Great Gatsby 100%. I hate how fitzgerald used so many fancy, futile words, that are just used rhetorically to fill up space. Also- I just finished Moby Dick ( which had about 20-25 amazing pages out of the 400 somethin pages it has and, ( only 5-6 good pages in a row, but they were set in between every hundred pages so it took me half a year to read. but- it's still a book that had an impact on me, because, although seldom; There are some AMAZING quotes in that book.

HOWEVER WHEN IT COMES TO - CATCHER IN THE RYE .... MAN - I COULDN'T DISAGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!!!!!!!
IT'S MEANT TO BE ALLEGORICAL!!! Thats why people don't get it. The ending of that book (4th, 3rd, & I think 2nd to last pages) are some of the most beautiful, and inspiring pages in all the books i've ever read and I think have probably ever been written. the scene I imagined just was beautiful. #2 on my top 5 of all time. If you're unimaginative/ taking things just as meaningless without inquiring into them; or maybe you're just not that smart/ or you were forced to read it, rather than pick it up on your own for and read it for fun- but how people don't pick up on the certain motifs, & symbolic metaphorical type things J.D writes about in Catcher in the Rye WHICH ARE ABUNDANT/ and obvious although subtle, yet they fly over everyone's heads.without thinking, you won't get the beauty of the deeper meaning of this book.

[H.]

The best books ever written- ( if you are imaginative enough, but still able to analyze/inquire into the deeper meaning of subtle but obvious things like metaphors/ symbolism, allegories, motifs, and can essentially- connect dots that an illiterate or indolent person would view as incoherent or meaningless ) ANYWAY T O P 5 BOOKS are:

1) No Country for Old men - by: Cormac McCarthy. Also one of the best movies ever made.

2) Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: Hunter S. Thompson (published in 1972)

(don't watch the movie first- and don't watch it after, I've never seen it and it was the book that made me want to read books, all day everyday. You imagine a beautiful movie and the memory of it is indellible. the funnest experience i've ever had reading a book.


3) Catcher in the Rye: J.D Salinger
( it's allegorical ) so if you don't get it, you're probably just illiterate/uneducated/ or can't pick up on the subtle but deeply profound meanings in certain segments.


4) The Old man and The Sea. Hemingway.

5) GRAHAM GREENE( everything ) but " The Third Man " is great and also his penguin published 21 short stories book is amazing.

[H.]

FOUR BOOKS THAT ARE SO OVER RATED ITS INSANE HOW STUPID THE WORLD IS!!!!!

1) GREAT GATSBY ( hands down ) that book fuckn sucks.
2) THE ALCHEMIST by paulo fuchelo ( STUPIDEST BOOK EVER )
3) SIDDHARTHA : By herman hesse ( SO BAD )
4 ) THE PEARL : by john Steinbeck ( I honestly, ripped it up and threw it away after reading it. I hated it so much.

[Michael]

Tell us how you really feel.

[Kallie]

H. wrote: "GRAHAM GREENE( everything ) but " The Third Man " is great and also his penguin published 21 short stories book is amazing. ..."

'The Quiet American' is my recent favorite but yeah, Greene is one of the modern greats for sure, mainly for the mood and atmosphere he creates.

I also agree about 'No Country for Old Men,' which I just finished. My folks are from that area and I've lived there too; the voices and place are right on. I think McCarthy and Greene explore similar themes but each has a style that expresses his own origins and sensibility.

[Kallie]

H. wrote: "FOUR BOOKS THAT ARE SO OVER RATED ITS INSANE HOW STUPID THE WORLD IS!!!!!

1) GREAT GATSBY ( hands down ) that book fuckn sucks.
2) THE ALCHEMIST by paulo fuchelo ( STUPIDEST BOOK EVER )
3) SIDDHA..."

But I disagree about Gatsby. Have read it several times and will again. Also, though I'm not sure how I'd like Hesse now, his books came along at a good time for me -- especially Damien, Steppenwolf, Journey to the East, and Siddhartha.

[Geoffrey]

H. wrote: "FOUR BOOKS THAT ARE SO OVER RATED ITS INSANE HOW STUPID THE WORLD IS!!!!!

1) GREAT GATSBY ( hands down ) that book fuckn sucks.
2) THE ALCHEMIST by paulo fuchelo ( STUPIDEST BOOK EVER )
3) SIDDHA..."

Or maybe we´re just not so stupid but the loss is yours? Have you considered that?

[Renee E]

Maybe, H, they just flew over your head? ;-)

[Karen]

Or H, opinions are like a..holes, you know the rest.

[Heidi]

Edward wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Karen wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: "Edward wrote: "Sorry to say; and surprised that I feel the need to say to you, that awards are nice to have, but are rarely i..."

No problem, I am glad that I helped you!

[Mochaspresso]

H. wrote: "2) Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: Hunter S. Thompson (published in 1972)

(don't watch the movie first- and don't watch it after, I've never seen it and it was the book that made me want to read books, all day everyday. You imagine a beautiful movie and the memory of it is indellible. the funnest experience i've ever had reading a book.


I've tried so many times to understand that book and have never been able to. Perhaps you are right in that I may have been ruined by the movie. Saw it, didn't like it. Didn't like or ever manage to finish the book either. I've tried several times because so many people have labelled his writing as brilliant. That book has always left me feeling confused. If I had to make of list of books I simply just did not "get", this would be number 2....right after "A Clockwork Orange". The only words that I can come up with to describe them is "bizarre mess" and "drug-addled lit" and "madman musings/rantings". I call it that because the only other time that I've felt so confused trying to understand a piece of literature was after reading Kubla Khan. I'm clearly not a HST fan. I understand his signifigance for being a pioneer of Gonzo Journalism but I can't seem to connect....and it ultimately makes me crazy when I can't see the connections that others see. I know it's erroneously reductionist, but I have to be honest. I cannot get into what I view as "drug lit" and "madman rantings".

[Monty J]

Mochaspresso wrote: " I cannot get into what I view as "drug lit" and "madman rantings"."

I agree.

Ken Kesey dances close to this fire in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and less so in Sometimes a Great Notion. Vonnegut, too, in Slaughterhouse Five. I loved all three books but wish they'd been written differently, more straightforward. I wouldn't go near Tom Wolfe after reading an interview with him and then a couple of reviews.

For dummies like me, wayward words can get in the way. Life would be so much simpler if every writer would write like Steinbeck, Faulkner, Lee, Walls, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Salinger, Updike, O'Hara, Carver, etc.

[Michael]

Yes, I just finished Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, and couldn't enjoy it due to his style, which I find excessively flowery and verbose.

In terms of spare writing in which not a word is wasted, one of my favorites is Paul Auster's The New York Trilogy.

[E.D.]

Drug-addled? Why not enhanced?

I'd elucidate further, but I'm currently occupied with keeping the three-headed geckos from dismantling the dishwasher..., who seems to be having trouble with the tea cups and his in-laws. :}

[Renee E]

E.D. wrote: "Drug-addled? Why not enhanced?

I'd elucidate further, but I'm currently occupied with keeping the three-headed geckos from dismantling the dishwasher..., who seems to be having trouble with the te..."

Okay, that's a story I want to read!

[E.D.]

Whoa! Soup's up. :}

[Kallie]

E.D. wrote: "Drug-addled? Why not enhanced?

I'd elucidate further, but I'm currently occupied with keeping the three-headed geckos from dismantling the dishwasher..., who seems to be having trouble with the te..."

Good question. Drugs don't inevitably addle.

[E.D.]

Edward wrote: "E.D. wrote: "Whoa! Soup's up. :}"

I'm at the table."

Welcome. Bring any crackers? :}

[Karen]

Monty wrote;
"For dummies like me, wayward words can get in the way. Life would be so much simpler if every writer would write like Steinbeck, Faulkner, Lee, Walls, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Salinger, Updike, O'Hara, Carver, etc."

Dummies don't read Faulkner Monty!!

[Kallie]

Karen wrote: "Monty wrote;
"For dummies like me, wayward words can get in the way. Life would be so much simpler if every writer would write like Steinbeck, Faulkner, Lee, Walls, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Salinger,..."

No, Karen is right. Faulkner is not an easy read though worth the effort . . . and the downright pain (Sanctuary, argh).

[Petergiaquinta]

The good doctor helped himself to a pharmaceutical now and then, but it's unfair to lump Vonnegut with HST. There's nothing "drug addled" about Slaughterhouse Five. That's a brilliantly thoughtful work about war and its effects, time, free will...the style reflects the content, a novel even a Trafalmadoran could enjoy. And I don't think Vonnegut experimented with any drugs harder than alcohol. SH-5 is definitely worth the effort, Monty. It might be my favorite novel written in the last 50 years.