The Most Overrated Books Showing 4,551-4,600 of 5,680

[Michael]

A Hunger Games thread called Last one to Post is the Winner has 200111 posts. Still no winner.

[Karen]

Kallie wrote: "But I don't remember Holden, though he is critical and precious, being nasty."

He wasn't ever nasty, you're right, it's just this statement that reminded us of Holden, below-
Monty J wrote: "Palmyrah wrote: I wouldn't be seen dead reading any of this thread."

[Kallie]

Mark wrote: "That's the horror of mental illness (which Plath seems likely to have had, clinical depression at the least). It shuts those who suffer from it in a place that those of us without it simply cannot comprehend unless we muster a difficult to find empathy. It's mental illness. ..."

I think that's true, but Plath brilliantly illustrated the plight of a young woman who can't neatly fit (as her mother and others encourage) into her expected Fifties girly-girl role though she desperately tries. Thus the messy leftover anger and depression, and forthright descriptions that are distinctly unfeminine. In 'Ariel' she dealt with that more directly. Some see her suicide as carefully staged for an intervention. Perhaps if she had survived she would have learned to own her demons instead of vice-versa. I think 'melodrama' and 'mental illness' are parts of the Plath puzzle, but not the most interesting parts (no offense).

[Kallie]

Karen wrote: "I wouldn't be seen dead . . . " (doing whatever) is one for the silly damn sayings list, though it is also kind of comical in an adolescent way.

[Michael]

I wouldn't be seen dead lying in a coffin...

[Petergiaquinta]

Mark wrote: "So my take is that True Detectives was drama not melodrama because the story took a backseat to the characters ... which may be a way of describing what you now find so dissatisfactory about it. Me? I'm good. "

Nah, I'm good, too. It's good TV. Probably great TV.

Again, with the exception of the final episode (the hospital room visit? the wheelchair in the parking lot? didn't you think that was all pretty melodramatic and low-rent television there at the end???), I can mostly look past these so-called flaws that Nussbaum illuminate in her article. However, when someone like Nussbaum points out that I'm possibly a chauvinist, and definitely a little less thoughtful than I should be, the good part of me stops and takes inventory for a minute or two before the bad part of me says, "So frickin what?"

I'm thinking about what you've posted there about character and plot and what drives what and how those ideas relate to Breaking Bad...I'm assuming you've watched it. Whatcha think?

And p.s.: Gratz on the 5000, Monty!!!

Gratz to all of us. God bless us, everyone!

[Geoffrey]

Monty J wrote: "Just to be #5000.

(Bows.) Hey, don't I get any applause?

Is there another thread on G-R with 5,000 posts?"

Mark wrote: "Grant500 wrote: "I want to nominate the Bell Jar... I felt like I was reading the diary of the most melodramatic, self-absorbed 13 year old ever."

I didn't feel the exact same way but I know what ..."

Clap, Clap, clap. You are listening to two hands in the silence of the internet.

And why didn't you take up Goodread's offer?

And can you recall where you were exactly when your most recent vehicle reached 50,000 on the odometer? 100,000?

[Monty J]

Geoffrey wrote: "And why didn't you take up Goodread's offer?"

What offer?


"And can you recall where you were exactly when your most recent vehicle reached 50,000 on the odometer? 100,000? ."

I was on the Bay Bridge when it turned 111,111.

[Mark]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "and how those ideas relate to Breaking Bad...I'm assuming you've watched it. Whatcha think?"

The entire series impressed me. Although different in scope, scale and tone, it was right up there with The Wire and The Sopranos. Breaking Bad avoided some of the pitfalls that Mad Men and House of Cards have fallen into.

I found no lulls or soft spots, that I'm recalling right now, in the narrative arc. I believe that's because Vince Gilligan knew where he wanted to go (and so always knew where he was going) from the onset. I'm sure you might have read that he wanted to create a series where the character deliberately and definitely changed.

This runs counter to what has been the prevailing point of most TV narratives. Clearly, we live in an age where this is changing, but the old paradigm is to perpetuate the series as long as possible. Keep getting renewed. So character stasis is normally the order of the day. Gilligan has been oft quoted about his desire to create a character that started out as Mr. Chips and ended up becoming Scarface.

Keeping it simple is often a recipe to success in creating an appealing narrative structure. Hem's Old Man and the Sea is a great example. But it wasn't so simple it was dumb. There was Skyler's ignorance, discovery and eventual complicity. And on and on ... I'm sure you could make your own list.

I'd give it five stars. Didn't find it overrated at all (Ha!).

[Karen]

Kallie wrote: "Karen wrote: "I wouldn't be seen dead . . . " (doing whatever) is one for the silly damn sayings list, though it is also kind of comical in an adolescent way."

It does belong on that list, and it is funny in a way! I certainly don't want to be seen dead, but then why would I care?

[Karen]

Mark wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote: "and how those ideas relate to Breaking Bad...I'm assuming you've watched it. Whatcha think?"

The entire series impressed me. Although different in scope, scale and tone, it ..."

I would give it 5 stars, and Bryan Cranston 10.

[Gary]

On its face, True Detective is a gritty detective story. On its second level its a story of a story told by two conspiring detectives. It's not the story of true detectives, but the true story of the detectives. On another level, it's a dark satire of detective stories mixed with caricature versions of the standard detective, but with their blow-hard demeanor revealed to be a shell over soft, marshmallow filling. And, overall, the whole thing is a send-up version of Beowulf done as a pot-boiler pulp detective story crossing over between the 20th and 21st centuries.

Edit: Nussbaum utterly missed the themes and ideas, completely distracted--like some vapid crow--by the occasional bright shiny buttocks and/or boobs, and the occasional violent scene.

[Renee E]

Monty J wrote: "Just to be #5000.

(Bows.) Hey, don't I get any applause?

Is there another thread on G-R with 5,000 posts?"

Monty J wrote: "Just to be #5000.

(Bows.) Hey, don't I get any applause?

Is there another thread on G-R with 5,000 posts?"

[Petergiaquinta]

Gary wrote: "And, overall, the whole thing is a send-up version of Beowulf done as a pot-boiler pulp detective story crossing over between the 20th and 21st centuries."

I'm curious about the Beowulf reference...what did you have in mind?

[Petergiaquinta]

Mark wrote: "The entire series impressed me.

I found no lulls or soft spots, that I'm recalling right now, in the narrative arc"

I was similarly impressed. I haven't seen The Wire, but I guess I'd vote for Breaking Bad outshining The Sopranos in writing and character development. In the same way I felt let down by the ending of True Detective, there were moments in The Sopranos where I lost interest. They pulled me back in (ar ar), but Breaking Bad maintained its hold on me throughout. You're right about not being any lull in the arc. None whatsoever...it was relentless.

Here's the thing that amazes me about Mark (and we're about the same age): somehow he can remember an article he read in the New York Times seven years ago well enough to not only find it online but to quote it fairly accurately before even going to look for it. Me on the other hand? I can't even remember what I did yesterday.

[Karen]

Petergiaquinta wrote;
". Me on the other hand? I can't even remember what I did yesterday"

That may be true but you remember novels you have read in great detail. Who needs short term memory anyways- less arguing because you can't remember what it was about, which is great for long term marriages.

[Renee E]

Ever notice, though, Karen, that too many people who don't remember what caused the argument marry those who ALWAYS remember?

[Petergiaquinta]

Karen wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote;
". Me on the other hand? I can't even remember what I did yesterday"

That may be true but you remember novels you have read in great detail. Who needs short term memory anyways..."

That's consoling. Thanks, Karen. Most of those novels, plus just about everything else I clearly remember, all go back to the '70s and '80s. Anything after about 1999? Forget about it...

[Michael]

I wouldn't be seen dead reading The Tibetan Book Of The Dead

[Michael]

Predictably inscrutable testosterone-fueled denigration of a culture that is all too self-satisfied while denying the largess of the well-heeled intelligensia.

Transmigration of souls? Ignore it at your peril as we accumulate the accouterments of a concupiscent unanimity tilting ever toward the perspicacious derision of common sense. Ever onward, Ozymandias, if you dare.

[Karen]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "Karen wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote;
". Me on the other hand? I can't even remember what I did yesterday"

That may be true but you remember novels you have read in great detail. Who needs short ter..."

Uh oh- I'll have to consult someone else about my second reading of The Sound and the Fury then. Lol.

[Karen]

Michael wrote: "I wouldn't be seen dead reading The Tibetan Book Of The Dead"

Lol, As I Lay Dying either.

[Renee E]

Petergiaquinta wrote: That's consoling. Thanks, Karen. Most of those novels, plus just about everything else I clearly remember, all go back to the '70s and '80s. Anything after about 1999? Forget about it...


And let that be a lesson as to what happens when you party like it's 1999.

[Karen]

Renee wrote: "Ever notice, though, Karen, that too many people who don't remember what caused the argument marry those who ALWAYS remember?"

Ya, I'm glad I didn't- mine never remembers.

[Kallie]

The Wire is unsurpassed and will remain so, though I thought Homocide Life on the Streets, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad all excellent in different ways. I don't like comparing those shows. Why bother?

[Renee E]

Kallie wrote: "The Wire is unsurpassed and will remain so, though I thought Homocide Life on the Streets, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad all excellent in different ways. I don't like comparing those shows. Why b..."

Did you ever catch "Oz?"

[Michael]

Shameless, starring William H. Macy & Emmy Rossum, is spectacular, although largely overlooked by the Emmys.

[Gary]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "I'm curious about the Beowulf reference...what did you have in mind?"

The overall season 1 story arc mimics, loosely, that of Beowulf. Between the two of them Rust and Marty are the bear/wolf hero, but the whole thing is a send up of the heroic journey. Rust/Marty first confront a kind of ogre/mother in the Ledoux encounter, then actually go down into a subterranean structure (weirdly walled with dead branches) in order to do battle with "the dragon" the monstrous Ted Childress.

[Kallie]

Renee wrote: "Kallie wrote: "The Wire is unsurpassed and will remain so, though I thought Homocide Life on the Streets, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad all excellent in different ways. I don't like comparing thos..."

I felt claustrophobic right off, but may try that one again.

[Kallie]

Renee wrote: "Kallie wrote: "The Wire is unsurpassed and will remain so, though I thought Homocide Life on the Streets, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad all excellent in different ways. I don't like comparing thos..."

This was near the top of Netflix Oz reviews! Makes me want to watch the show:

"Be warned...this show is 100% CHEESY & 1000% FLAMING GAY! This show is like a bad gay comic book for fan boy gaytards. Why does almost everything HBO does have to be so over the top cheesy and flaming gay? Why are Hollywood, MTV and STARS so hostile to heterosexual males? Hollywood, HBO and STARS both feel that they must show a mans pen!s in everything they produce, but NEVER a females vag!na! They just keep showing same stupid lame female breast shots or sometimes (very rarely) a bush shot. HBO has a double standard when it comes to full frontal nudity. And for all those females who want to say that Hollywood has been showing breasts forever, well breasts are in no way equal to showing genitals. How could any heterosexual male viewer set and watch this crap! Why is it that heterosexual males continue to watch this anti-male crap without an equal amount of female genital nudity? Just another hateful anti-heterosexual white male movie by liberal Hollywood! HBO wont even let us see ring girls on boxing, but they feel the need to blast us with pen!s programs and scenes over and over again. More and more heterosexual male subscribers are dumping HBO and Cable. HBO has lost a ton of male subscribers over the few years! HBO and cable are very worried, but continue to blame it on other factors. If you're a heterosexual male that feels the same, dump HBO and STARS! Send a message to the stale, clueless, hypocrite, liberal and gay male retards that run these type of shows."

[Renee E]

Was it this guy who did the review? http://drakesflames.blogspot.com/2012...

[Petergiaquinta]

Karen wrote: "Uh oh- I'll have to consult someone else about my second reading of The Sound and the Fury then. Lol."

I'm okay with that one...read it for the first time in '85 I think, so it's crystal clear, lololo.

[Monty J]

Kallie wrote: "'...man's penises...female vaginas...'"

Either the reviewer is being deliberately redundant or knows something I don't about biology..., or perhaps she/he's the "retard."

[Paul Martin]

Kallie wrote: "The Wire is unsurpassed and will remain so"

Definitely.

Halfway through season 4 atm. I doubt I'll ever watch anything as good as this, which is amazing and sad at the same time.

[Palmyrah]

Monty J wrote: You make me chuckle. You sound just like Holden.

You, I like.

[Palmyrah]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "Thanks for dropping by, you insufferable twit."

Ah, another one that likes to get personal. Why do my literary opinions cause you so much ire? Did you write any of the books I panned? And why are you wearing that ruff?

[Palmyrah]

Renee wrote: "The Catcher in the Rye is an overrated book by an overrated amateur – as compared to Game of Thrones? Or is there some opus you're working on yourself? Pray tell."

Frankly, I think it's overrated compared to a bus timetable, which at least serves some kind of useful function. A Game of Thrones, as I believe it is correctly titled, doesn't pretend to be anything more than it is: commercial entertainment, not very original but competently executed. A bit like a Shakespeare play, you know. And not at all like the pretentious gittery of 'literature's Garbo' or whatever they used to call him.

By the way, I had no idea I had a comment history. Where can I find it?

[Palmyrah]

J.D. wrote: "What is your personal greatest novel of all time (up till now, of course), Palmyrah?

I don't have one. How could anyone say what the greatest novel of all time is? I have a personal favourite, but that's another matter. If you want to get a handle on my literary taste (and I can't imagine why you would), then go and look at my book list and count the stars.

[Karen]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "Karen wrote: "Uh oh- I'll have to consult someone else about my second reading of The Sound and the Fury then. Lol."

I'm okay with that one...read it for the first time in '85 I think, so it's cry..."

Oh good! I'll remember that!

[Petergiaquinta]

@Palmyrah

Who's mad, brah? Not me...wrong again, boyo.

As for the ruff, I'm just a slave to fashion.

[Monty J]

Cemre wrote: "Has Palmyrah shown up before ? Why does he think that we're stupid and why does everyone is so agressive towards him ? Is there a history here ?

Also Palmyrah , can you explain why do you hate th..."


Different versions of Palmyrah have appeared here on this thread many times. Why the anger toward Holden? I suspect because it's the shock of looking through a mirror into one's own soul and seeing something of oneself without knowing it. He recognizes similarities he may not have considered in deciding exactly who he wants to be.

It's uncomfortable to see your SELF as it is in the process of being formed.

We all have blind spots. We can't know everything at once.

Holden is a spoiled rich kid who's been traumatized into losing his innocence and doesn't want that to happen to other kids. The realities of adulthood can be brutal.

It's a jungle out there, and teenagers who've lived in a protective bubble are mere hours d'oeuvres for the predators of life. There's a great scene in Lorenzo Carcaterra's Sleepers where Fat Mancho delivers this line far better than I can. Fat Mancho's solution is for the boys to face it and get tough, fast.

This issue of awakening is also exposed in The Big Chill, an award-winning film which begins with a funeral for a young brilliant former physics student who committed suicide because he couldn't cope with the brutality of adulthood.

But getting tough isn't the only solution. With Holden, Salinger reveals a path to empathy. There is a fork in the road to adulthood. One branch leads to brutality, the other empathy, compassion.

Youth (like Palmyrah?) need time to experiment before deciding which branch to take. Or maybe they'll look for a middle path. CiTR is a shock if it comes along just when one thinks they've got the hang of what life is about.

The book's emphasis on compassion reflects Salinger's interest in Eastern philosophy. To me its message is to consider the higher path.

[Monty J]

Cemre wrote: "Maybe he isn't young ? How can you be so sure ? Maybe he has other reasons for hating it. But this doesn't change the fact that he's rude, of course."


I am judging his personality from the word choices and tenor of his writing. Rudeness is indicative of developing maturity. His chronological age is of less importance than his emotional age. People can remain teenagers for life.

[Palmyrah]

Cemre wrote: "Has Palmyrah shown up before? Why does he think that we're stupid and why does everyone is so agressive towards him ? Is there a history here?

Good grief! A fair mind and an even hand on the internet! Could this be possible?

Can you explain why do you hate this book so much? Thanks.

Yes. It validates an outlook that, when encountered in real life, makes me want to kick the person who holds it. I had literary objections too, but since it's about thirty years since I read the book, I think we can dispense with those, except to say that pretty much anyone can write like a spoilt teenager.

By the way, I found my 'comment history' and skimmed through it. I think it makes interesting reading for anyone who regards me as a troll. Go take a look, if you really think this argument is worth the temporal investment.

[Palmyrah]

Monty J wrote: Different versions of Palmyrah have appeared here on this thread many times.

Are you suggesting I have sock puppets on Goodreads? Seriously? Or is this your literary-metaphorical way of saying 'I've seen them all and, man, they're all the same'?

Why the anger toward Holden? I suspect because it's the shock of looking through a mirror into one's own soul and seeing something of oneself without knowing it. He recognizes similarities he may not have considered in deciding exactly who he wants to be.

It's a brave fool who psychoanalyzes people on the internet.

It's a jungle out there... hours d'oeuvres... the predators of life... face it and get tough, fast... this issue of awakening... the brutality of adulthood... Salinger reveals a path to empathy... a fork in the road... emphasis on compassion... consider the higher path.

Rolling Stone magazine once called Eric Clapton 'the master of the cliche'. I hadn't realized till now that there was a contest for that laurel.

Youth like Palmyrah... I am judging his personality from the word choices and tenor of his writing. Rudeness is indicative of developing maturity. His chronological age is of less importance than his emotional age.

Wise of you to hedge your bets there, old lad.

People can remain teenagers for life.

Is this a forlon regret I see before me, the handle towards my hand?

[Palmyrah]

Cemre wrote: "Why does he think that we're stupid?"

I certainly don't think you're stupid. But anyone who chose to read a blanket condemnation of all thread participants into my earlier remarks is very stupid indeed.

Mind you, that is just what I knew they would do. I was and am happy to provide them with the opportunity. I like to encourage self-expression in the less gifted.

Out of compassion, you know.

[Geoffrey]

Such overflowing hubris dirtied with conceit.Oh my, oh my.

[Mark]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "Here's the thing that amazes me about Mark (and we're about the same age): somehow he can remember an article he read in the New York Times seven years ago well enough to not only find it online but to quote it fairly accurately before even going to look for it."

You're too kind. It's a devilishly selective memory. In the interest of accuracy, I didn't encounter what I initially fumblingly quoted in the New York Times at first, btw.

I recalled it from Sidney Lumet's commentary at the end of the DVD for Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. Recalled enough of it, in fact, to google it. I lucked out that he was quoted as saying practically the same thing in the NYT's interview. But, gee, when I watched that movie it was waaaaay back when Netflix sent you these shiny discs in the mail. Anyone remember that?

[Mark]

Palmyrah wrote: (way back in one of his earlier posts "Why should a hill of sententious tripe amassed largely by people who don't know anything about literature (but know what they like, haw-haw) interest me at all?"

It's a little too late to claim that others are initiating Ad Hominem arguments, Pal baby. Looks like you slapped everybody with your stinky glove first.

Passive-Aggressive behavior is a part of the condition. Been there.

[Petergiaquinta]

@Edward

You are in rare form today, biting, funny and coherent.

It's the coherence that most amazes me.

Keep it up.

[Mochaspresso]

Who likes cartoons? Who likes to imagine other posters as cartoons? Every time I see Edward respond to someone with that tone, I can't help but think of the critic from Ratatouille typing his witticisms on his old typewriter.



Please don't take offense. :) That was such a cute movie and I actually loved his character. Peace and love and upside down rainbow smiles.