The Most Overrated Books Showing 401-450 of 5,680

[Monty J]

Kallie wrote: "But Atlas Shrugged strikes a lot of nerves too, though I would say it strikes nerves that don't favor social justice and is also poorly written."

Neither LOTF nor Atlas Shrugged are great because they are not well written, but both strike an intergenerational chord and must be read because they deal seriously with social order, and from opposite ends of a spectrum. LOTF warns about fascism and AS promotes it.

[Cosmic]

Well I read it because it was required reading in high school and I didn't read it in school. I didn't take that English class and that was because I didn't like to read. I was actually suspicious of the book. I am from the South (US) and thought naively that the title was sacrilegious. I read it because I was suspicious of books that are assigned and thought that if they were so remarkable they weren't have to be assigned. I wanted to read books that were force fed to kids universally and made up the diet of thinking. This was the first classic that I read at age 34. I was reading a lot of nonfiction about philosophies of education and trying to become self educated on a lot of different levels. I was interested in education because I was homeschooling my children in a nontraditional way. I was surprised that LOTF was not about worshipping something...But now that I think about...maybe war, or obsessions, or whatever we are willing to live or sacrifice for is a religion.

I think, that often it isn't the book that is so conditioning as the study guides. I think because I didn't read this in school that I came away with a different and more meaningful,IMO, view of this book. This book was my first classic(I got through school by listening and reading textbooks).

After reading LOTF I decided to only read classics. But I have found the study guides to be juvenile and forms the "filter" that people interpret books through.

I admit that I am no judge of Golfing's writing style. I remember persevering through the first 100 pages but I figured that is why it was assigned and typical of school.

I have to say I did read Brave New World a couple years before, but LOTF was the book that made me believe that classics were not valuable because some crusty person assigned them but they had timeless value.

I was disappointed when several years (maybe three years) when I went to Amazon and read the comments and realized that the common interpretation of this book differed widely from my own. I was not surprised that Golding was a school teacher. I think that he may have seen that this is where the conditioning for Fascism starts.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=j...

I am loving this discussion! I am going to read the links you have provided Monty, thank you. I haven't read Rands book yet...I started one of hers but was to much of a puritan to finish it. I might be able to read it now after having read the Catcher In The Rye backwards and forwards. Hated that book the first time I read it. ...But that is off-topic. Sorry

[Monty J]

Cosmic wrote: "I was not surprised that Golding was a school teacher. I think that he may have seen that this is where the conditioning for Fascism starts."

I postulated earlier that Golding didn't know he was writing a warning about fascism, but in my heart I suspect he did but could not afford to admit it because too many powerful British aristocrats were (and still are) fascists. Britain has a sordid history of empirical abuse, including slavery and atrocities such as ethnic cleansing in the Boer Wars, the Opium Wars, etc. (The Nazis had to come along to make the Brits look good.)

The exclusive all-male prep school where Golding taught contained direct descendants of some of the perpetrators responsible for these atrocities. Some of them probably playmates of Prince Charles. Golding modeled his characters in LOTF after the boys he observed and taught at school, Jack Merridew included. I suspect Piggy was modeled after Golding himself.

Golding was no fool. He knew he couldn't take on fascism overtly without jeopardizing his future; so he did it in a cleverly camouflaged manner. And got away with it.

LOTF is not taught, to my knowledge, from this anti-fascist angle except perhaps at the college level.
But judging from the frighteningly absurd popularity of Atlas Shrugged, it should be.

AS has become the toxic Bible of the Extreme Right, used to justify the dismantling of government and the expansion of private ownership of public services. In Dallas there is a major cross-town toll road owned by a foreign corporation (probably owned in turn by local oil billionaires.) The governor took $1 billion out of the state's educational trust fund to pay for tax breaks for Texas oil billionaires. The movement is accelerating. Books are important.

[Mihai]

Never liked The Catcher in the Rye, but is not in the same class as silly Da Vinci Code. There are two different things, whether a book is well written and if someone enjoys it or not.

[Cosmic]

Monty J wrote: " AS has become the toxic Bible of the Extreme Right, used to justify the dismantling of government and the expansion of private ownership of public services. In Dallas there is a major cross-town toll road owned by a foreign corporation (probably owned by local oil billionaires.) The governor took $1 billion out of the state's educational trust fund to pay for tax breaks for Texas oil billionaires. The movement is accelerating. Books are important. "

I guess you can make the bible or the LOTF say whatever you want it to. All you need is a very dynamic speaker and a few sheeple, as pointed out in LOTF.

Books are important but being able to think is more important and I don't think they teach rhetoric in school. They teach belief in the powers and knowledge handed down from on high. And who these know it all that decided that these were the set of facts that I needed in my head....well I don't see that as any more poisonous to free thought as you are making for the Bible. Maybe we are not in disagreement on this.

But you should know that Slaves Don't Need No Education.
The people that they exterminated were the ones they couldn't teach or CON-vince. Just like Piggy. Or The American Indian...for the Empire lives on through the New World ...(Order).

[Patrick]

How can you include The Great Gatsby on this list? The Catcher in the Rye hasn't aged well, I grant you, but it certainly doesn't belong on the same list as The DaVinci Code...

[Oksana]

The Catcher

Catcher is brilliant. Classics is not supposed to be entertaining.

[Oksana]

One wrote: "It's all very subjective. A few of them are obvious classics and certainly shouldn't be considered over rated.

True.

[Oksana]

It is beyond my comprehension how someone can hate this book...."

i feel your pain :/

[Cosmic]

Monty J wrote: ".postulated earlier that Golding didn't know he was writing a warning about fascism, but in my heart I suspect he did but could not afford to admit it because too many powerful British aristocrats were (and still are) fascists. Britain has a sordid history of empirical abuse, including slavery and atrocities such as ethnic cleansing in the Boer Wars, the Opium Wars, etc. ."

I think you are right. I think that it is common practice for an author to use children literature to cloak adult themes that he might otherwise be criticised for.

I think The Catcher In the Rye and Bambi:a life in the woods by Felix Salten are good examples. I wonder if you know some other titles that I can add to my reading list?

[Anne Hawn]

Speaking about Lord of the Flies reminded me of the wonderful horse Seabiscuit and led me on a train of thought that most of the comments seem to be pointing to. Seabiscuit was the Gomer Pyle of horse racing, but he won again and again.

I think there are some books like Seabiscuit. I would include LotF, Uncle Tom's Cabin, The Jungle , and Up From Slavery to name a few. They are written by authors who didn't have the skills we usually associate with the classics, but were written by people who were visionary enough to see something in society that needed addressing and they had enough skill to put their feelings into words that were compelling enough to light a fire in people's hearts and begin a dialog. However they got there, they won the race.

Even now, if you go back and read Uncle Tom's Cabin , you can feel the power of the book and understand why it changed a nation. The English teacher in me doesn't like to open wide the definition of "classics." That happened in the late 60's and the 70's and we ended up with some real garbage. In fact, sometimes the syllabus made me think that Illustrated Classic Comic books would have been better than some of the garbage we were supposed to teach. "Slice of life" writing was one of the bywords, but many of them didn't communicate, which was just as well, because they didn't have anything worth passing on anyway. Mercifully, most of those books are no longer around.

Classics are about ideas that are worth having, said in a way that reaches the heart and mind of the reader. They are about metaphors and prose that make a person's heart vibrate in unison with the words they could never find themselves. But, they are also about big ideas, simply written, at the right time and place, ideas that can move a nation and change the world.

[Kallie]

Achim wrote: Well, in German high schools, at least back in my days (i.e. the late 70's / early 80's), LOTF was taught as a fable with a morale. And the morale was about how people can be seduced into authoritarian, inhumane beliefs. "
The Inheritors also imparts morals in its story about more technologically advanced humans remorselessly wiping out Neandertals. We don't know what actually happened back then, but the moral holds. And whatever his skill, Golding had this reader (I don't remember how old I was) identifying with Neandertals

[[deleted user]]

Hm...The Bible.

[Cosmic]

The Bible? Could you really understand society of the West without reading it? Or European history? It has already been taken out of our school system. There have been societies that banned it and I am not sure that either those societies or our schools have improved because of it. Maybe we need to discuss it without the dogma and fear. I think you should elaborate your suggestion Claire, please.

[Paul Martin]

Cosmic wrote: "The Bible? Could you really understand society of the West without reading it? Or European history? It has already been taken out of our school system. There have been societies that banned it ..."

Theres no need to elaborate more simply because it's 'The Bible'. I doubt that Claire is denying it's importance, but she probably finds it completely uinteresting and incredibly dull - as do many people.

[[deleted user]]

I will elaborate. Its a ficticious book, with ficticious characters who walk on water, magically have babies, and ride in chariots to heaven. If you want to understand culture and the west I suggest you read a few history books (ones written by real authors with a knowledge of history not desert dwellers from a thousand years ago who had no idea the world was even round) I am overjoyed it was taken out of schools. If we're gonna teach the bible in schools we better start teaching greek and roman myth too, or how about the story of icarus flying to close to the sun? I don't fear discussing novels. I know many perfectly well educated cultured people, PHD professors who have wonderful understandings of the west and have never picked the book up. Its not dull, its very thrilling, just like any good fairy tale is. But it is over rated.

[George]

The Catcher in the Rye -enjoyed/overrated
Moby Dick - never read
The Great Gatsby -enjoyed/overrated
Waiting for Godot -never read
The Stranger - enjoyed/overrated
Ulysses - never read
Atlas Shrugged - enjoyed immensely until the end, so yes, overrated
The Da Vinci Code - this was an immensely "fun" book to read, in it's genre definitely not overrated, but why is it with these other books on the list?
Twilight - never read, never will, no opinion.

The most OVERRATED book of all time: 100 Years of Solitude, and please don't tell me I don't get it, I just "did not" like it, and really think it's a book for poseurs.

[Gary]

Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."

I do not agree with Moby Dick. I understand that many find it tedious (and it can be), but there is a lot to appreciate as well. I also disagree with Atlas Shrugged. While Rand's works can become monotonous, Atlas Shrugged was her magnum opus, and I thought it showed her philosophy in the best possible way.

As far as the list you've created, how can you claim that all of these books are overrated when your profile has many of them still listed as "To read"? If you haven't read the books yet, your judgment is premature.

[Cosmic]

Claire wrote: "I will elaborate. Its a ficticious book, with ficticious characters who walk on water, magically have babies, and ride in chariots to heaven. If you want to understand culture and the west I sugges..."

Well this may be true or not so true. Much of the things that you believe is fiction to others is unquestionable truth. You certainly can understand some history without reading the Bible but I doubt you will understand the people that believe in it. Is this important? Well I think people behave in certain ways based on their beliefs. I think that the people that adopt one religion or belief want to demonize other views. Reminds me of book burning. But even worst it reminds me of what those that believe in the Bible did when they went to other countries, say China. According to Pearl S.Buck in the book Dragon Seed they were teaching the Chinese American History because they couldn't teach Chinese history without the Confucius, which they considered false.

I really wish that they would have taught us all the myths of the Romans and Greeks as a lot of literature uses them in metaphors and I am playing catch up. When they use a Christian motif because I learned that I can grasp the concept immediately.

Most of our literature is written from a Christian point of view.

It is just like the Christians wanting to deny us access to the North American Indian folktales...well if we understood them maybe we would have learned how to live in America without raping it, or killing the first settlers. Lol

Also a lot of our art is related to the Bible. So there is way to much culture involved to say it is overrated. I would say it isn't rated high enough because much of its meaning has been lost just like the Greek myths.

[RJ]

The Catcher in the Rye = Lame
Moby Dick = Lame
Great Gatsby = Lame
Waiting for Godot = TBA
The Stranger = TBA
Ulysses = TBA
Atlas Shrugged = betting it will be great!
The Da Vinci Code = Good
Twilight = ultra lame

[[deleted user]]

Thanks for asking this question, Gary. It gives me a chance to re-post the original statement that started this thread (450+ posts ago):

"Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The Stranger
Ulysses
Atlas Shrugged
The Da Vinci Code
Twilight

What do you think? Do you agree? Any titles you'd add to the list?"

As you can see, it's not my list. It's a sampling from various internet sites that recommend readers skip these books because, in their opinion, they think the titles are overrated. I'm simply asking if you agree with the internet sites and if you have any of your own titles you'd add to such a list.

I've noticed that a lot of people who have posted on this thread think that I've created the list and seem to think that I feel the books on the list are overrated. As you've pointed out, Gary, I haven't read any of the books on the list and therefore have no opinion on those particular titles. However, I did, like many others, offer a title of my own that I think is highly overrated - Death in Venice (post 9). I've really enjoyed reading everyone else's opinions of the books on the lists and additional ones that readers think are overrated. They have greatly informed my decisions on next selections. I'm grateful for that and look forward to reading this on-going discussion. Thanks for your question, Gary, and for posting your own thoughts on overrated books.

[[deleted user]]

Cosmic, I totally agree with you that the Bible has played a significant role in the development of Western society. Perhaps the word for it is influential - surely we can agree that it is one of the most influential books in history. So, that begs the question then - can a book such as the Bible that has had such an undeniable impact on society also be overrated? Interesting dichotomy. What do you think?

[Morgan]

I liked Catcher In the Rye a lot, but only after my teacher thoroughly explained the text and its symbols.

[Monty J]

Maria wrote: "Thanks for asking this question, Gary. It gives me a chance to re-post the original statement that started this thread (450+ posts ago):

"Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick s..."

Without an objective set of evaluation parameters I regard subjective lists like this to be a waste of time, an opportunity for literary poseurs to rant.

Any dilettante can render an opinion about a masterpiece. But their opinion is worth little to nothing without some substance.

[Kallie]

Monty J wrote: "Any literary dilettante can render an opinion about a masterpiece. But their opinion is worth little to nothing without some substance. "

Or anyone who is not a literary dilettante or poseur. I agree with Monty but I also think discussion can be good if it opens our minds a bit. That doesn't mean I will ever accept some books as literature (however influential or popular they may be) but the original post asks about books, not literature. I'm just not sure that the original post considered (or should have considered) that distinction.

[Bill]

Certainly agree with all those who argued for a separation between pop best sellers and the "classics," whose readership keeps them in print.

And I wouldn't include Atlas Shrugged in the classics, even though a certain political subset of readers continues to prize it.

Notice that no one comments on Moby Dick and Ulysses, probably because few have finished either. Tough reads, but they grow on you, sort of like Dreiser's American Tragedy--in spite of his style.
On the other hand, for all of its plot improbabilities, Gatsby represents the highest achievement in style and moral characterization. (I'm with Hemingway, who felt that anyone who could write that finely deserved all the help he could get to keep living productively.)

In the pop area, I certainly agree that Grisham and Larson overwrite their novels, but Dan Brown plots quite efficiently, regardless of your moral or politico-religious misgivings.

Actually, some of the best pop culture character-and-plot fiction writing is occurring in the detective/mystery area from authors such as George Pelecanos, Dennis LeHane, James Lee Burke, Ian Rankin, and Lawrence Block. But that's for an "Underrated" thread.

[Kallie]

Bill wrote: "Certainly agree with all those who argued for a separation between pop best sellers and the "classics," whose readership keeps them in print.

And I wouldn't include Atlas Shrugged in the classic..."
Moby Dick is on my re-read shelf. To me, even Melville's 'weaknesses' are interesting because he has great psychological insight and knowledge of his material, and is a poet who writes from the heart. One of his neglected books might be "The Confidence Man," one of the best things I have every read about soulless swindling, American style. I don't know if I'll every read 'Ulysses;' though I like Joyce's short work and reading poetry, I don't like stream of consciousness writing (I believe that is the style?). But I certainly wouldn't call 'Ulysses' overrated just because it doesn't resonate with me.

[Monty J]

Kallie wrote: "...discussion can be good if it opens our minds a bit."

I am all for discussion, but what grates on me is the unfairness and negative tone of the topic. It's a magnet for people like the uniformed malcontent who flunked English Literature to lash out and get even. It feels sacrilegious, like book-burning, a blacklist with a hidden agenda. Kangaroo court--just hang'em, with no opportunity to confront let alone cross-examine the accuser.

Joe McCarthy would applaud. Hemingway would brandish a club.

Some grad student one day is going to publish a paper saying "I did a Web survey and x number of people think the books on this list are overrated." It gets posted on some blog without the slightest degree of authentication or challenge.

Then the list starts getting quoted in the media, because God knows how low journalistic standards have fallen. Just click on Yahoo News or Fox "News" and take a whuff.

I am all for stimulative discussion, but let's be fair and set some rules (pesky rules) of decorum.

I just Googled "Overrated Books" and what came up? You guessed it, this discussion.

The Defense rests.

[Petergiaquinta]

Bravo, bravo!

Or...what if we just retitled the thread as, "I'm Kinda Dumb and I Just Didn't Get It"?

[Kallie]

Monty J wrote: "Kallie wrote: "...discussion can be good if it opens our minds a bit."

I am all for discussion, but what grates on me is the unfairness and negative tone of the topic. It's a magnet for people lik..."
In a Salon interview, Joyce Carole Oates talks about lynch mob mentality on Twitter . . . kind of similar?? I prefer her non-fiction to her fiction, but she had intelligent things to say about all kinds of things.

[Rodney]

A lot of these books are trash, but people who say "Ulysses" or "Moby-Dick" are overrated reveal more about themselves than they do the book.

[Geoffrey]

How about an alternative questions.....
What contemporary books are underrated...and the corrolary...which contempary authors are underrated.

Here´s my .02.

William Vollman
Mary Caponegro
T.C Boyle

Anyone want to rant and rave about any of these. And by the way I find Oates to be overrated. Good style. Another flawed writer. Get the adrenalin going.

[Michael]

I think Christopher Moore's novels are underrated. Like many comic novelists, he is largely ignored.

[Anne Hawn]

And by the way I find Oates to be overrated. Good style. Another flawed writer. Get the adrenalin going.


Joyce Carol Oates is a great example of a good writer who can also write bad books. I persevered through all 3 of her Mysteries of Winterthurn series and here is my link:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/edit...

Basically, she starts with the premise that real murders don't always have a resolution, so she writes 3 extremely flawed books. In one of them you have a basic "locked room" murder. The problem is that she never tells how the murder was done or who did it, or why. Duh? Any person on this thread could write a book like that. For me it was more than a waste of time. Being the excellent writer she is, she created some characters and plot elements which were great, but just wasted.

There are some people who liked the books, but I found serious flaws, so I would say they were overrated because of the author's name and reputation. If you are interested, there are a number of great reviews on the books on the same page as my review.

[RJ]

Emma wrote: "I feel that Catcher in the Rye (and other classics that I don't like) is like an abstract painting. Art enthusiasts might claim that it is a masterpiece and pay an outrageous price for it, but to t..."

Couldn't agree more!

[Kallie]

Geoffrey wrote: "How about an alternative questions.....
What contemporary books are underrated...and the corrolary...which contempary authors are underrated.

Here´s my .02.

William Vollman
Mary Caponegro
T.C Boy..."

Yes to all three. And they are all so different from one another and other writers. Boyle has the most traditionally narrative style, but evokes really strange feelings in me.

[Anne Hawn]

Kallie wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "How about an alternative questions.....
What contemporary books are underrated...and the corrolary...which contempary authors are underrated.

Here´s my .02.

William Vollman
Mary ..."

That would be a really helpful topic, Geoffrey. Why don't you start it and we can all add our underrated favorites!

[Monty J]

Geoffrey wrote: "How about an alternative questions.....
What contemporary books are underrated...and the corrolary...which contempary authors are underrated.

Here´s my .02.

William Vollman
Mary Caponegro
T.C Boy..."

Richard Russo's Nobody's Fool and Empire Falls. EF earned a Pulitzer and was Paul Newman's last film. NF was Jessica Tandy's last film. Newman played a leading role in both, (as did he and Henry Fonda in the film adaptation of Kesey's SAGN, cited below.)

Ken Kesey's Sometimes a Great Notion, his second novel, was far better that his first, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but Cuckoo was so overwhelmingly popular because of the film that it got steamrolled and forgotten. Both novels were written while Kesey was experimenting with LSD, and the herky-jerkey style shows it. But the reader gets taken along on some pretty amazing trips.

[Rodney]

You've got it a little backwards. "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" was immensely popular long before the Jack Nicholson film. I know, because I read it in high school in the early 1970s, and I wasn't the only one. The book had a lot of fans, and part of the anticipation of the movie -- besides the casting of the lead role -- was to see how closely it would or would not follow the book. Obviously, any successful film gives a boost to the book it was based on, but the book had clearly proven already that it could stand on its own.

[Donna]

Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."

[Donna]

Wow. This list surprises me. The Stranger was my teenage discovery of existentialism. From Camus to Sartre to Dostoevsky, The Stranger was my introduction and in that respect, essential. American writers such as Fitzgerald mirrored a side of American culture with brilliant, subtlety matched only by his depth and accuracy. Atlas Shrugged is a book I knew I had to read without any knowledge of its rock star status on the 'best book ever' lists. I cannot minimize the brilliance and effect and honesty, and impact of this book with a mere sentence. Decades of readers selecting it in spite of length, and font size, and austerity do that for me. Every page has an epiphany (perhaps slight overstatement) every page has the lone solitary, necessary voice of conscience, of reason, of justice displayed for all to root for it and hope for its salvation. (Hardly an overstatement) This book speaks of history and government, and people's weaknesses and corruption. This book speaks of the world the good people out of power deserve to see. This book tells a story of a modern day Eden of which we all deserve to return. This book is essential. And might I add, a thoroughly enjoyable, good read.

[Cosmic]

2014 Reading Challenge Group is going to make the discussion book for March.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

I was looking up some different study guides on it and found my favorite teacher and mentor John Taylor Gatto wrote a study guide John Taylor Gatto

So here are some points he made about the book:
The following "Gospel According To McMurphy" was written by John Taylor Gatto:

"1. You're safe as long as you laugh. Open up & laugh; when you lose your laugh, you lose your footing, your grasp on life.

2.True wisdom is largely innate, inherent in your biological nature. The influence of others is a weakening force. Be yourself & what you want to be.

3. Persist in the face of opposition. Don't give up the ship- and don't let the 'givens' of your life, physical or situational, limit your choices.

4. Life is a gamble for stakes. Play not to win, but to try the impossible, the prize is in the effort. Remember, honest self-interest equals sanity.

5. Intense and diversified experiences makes a full life, not careers and routines. And sexual experience is a central business of living, a fundamental good.

6. Be aware and analytical. Look the game over before you draw a hand.

7. Be adaptable, not rigid.

8. Freedom goes to the wary. Stay free of bonds, even self-imposed ones. Travel light-footed & fast; a moving target is hard to hit.

9. A man's destiny is always in his own hands.

10. Bravado & courage are sources of power, and physical contests are necessary to preserve one's integrity."


Thanks for reading; thanks even more for commenting.

[Donna]

Monty J wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Chava wrote: "Whenever I see a person slam, or call The Catcher In the Rye an overrated, my heart breaks a little more. It is beyond my comprehension how someone can hate this book.

..."

Monty J wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Chava wrote: "Whenever I see a person slam, or call The Catcher In the Rye an overrated, my heart breaks a little more. It is beyond my comprehension how someone can hate this book.

..."

[Donna]

Honesty, simplicity, and lack of internal hype are what make this story either revered or hated. It just depends on which movie line you stand in.

[Monty J]

Rodney wrote: "You've got it a little backwards. "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" was immensely popular long before the Jack Nicholson film. I know, because I read it in high school in the early 1970s, and I was..."

You're right. The Cuckoo film was released in '75. SAGN was published in '64.

[Donna]

Cosmic wrote: "2014 Reading Challenge Group is going to make the discussion book for March.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

I w..."

[Donna]

Cosmic,
Thank you for this! It speaks volumes and with understandable lines omitted, will make the walls of my middle school.

[Geoffrey]

Follow up to 469 by Anne Hawn

I recall Reading a short story by Oates back in the early 70´s. The story took place entirely inside a home, a kitchen I believe. There were two principals having a serious discussion and tempers flared. There was a common literary device that she used to mirror the changes in the emotional atmosphere, namely, outside the weather was changing and she used the appearance of the wind, rain, and sun to mirror what was happening inside. It was so heavy-handed on her part that one could not but notice her literary contrivance. That was my first introduction to Oates and not a very good impression.
She wrote a novella about a schizophrenic man, Spider was in the title I recall, that likewise left me groping for better. The story as told was way too illegible. The stream of consciousness was too fractured for good Reading. I much preferred Doris Lessing´s superior treatment of the same subject.

The third story of hers I read likewise was faulty. It was the tale of a semi-retarded nurse´s assistant who is seduced by the resident doctor and goes on to self-abort her fetus. In this story the suspensión of belief was too weak to carry the story. The woman goes on to murder her once lover.

[Petergiaquinta]

Monty's right, though, about one thing: Sometimes a Great Notion is a brilliant book, just as good or better than Cuckoo's Nest, and it deserves a much bigger readership. Take Cuckoo's Nest out of the asylum and drop it into the northwest's logging industry, and add a little East of Eden maybe, and you've got a great read that for some reason has been almost lost to today's readers. But if you like McMurphy and his rebellion against the Combine, you'll love this book...it's about individualism and conformity and the fading frontier and the loss of something great...dare I call it "epic," even?

[Monty J]

Petergiaquinta wrote: "Monty's right, though, about one thing: Sometimes a Great Notion is a brilliant book, just as good or better than Cuckoo's Nest, and it deserves a much bigger readership. Take Cuckoo's Nest out of ..."

The film/book has the most gripping death scene I have ever encountered, the one where Andy Stamper is pinned under a huge log as the rising tide is shifting its weight. Perfectly believable and real, but you can't tear you mind away from what is happening and how it could happen to anyone. Perfectly and unforgettably rendered on film, too.