The Most Overrated Books Showing 4,201-4,250 of 5,680

[Karen]

Monty wrote;
"What writer from any country can match Steinbeck's depth and breadth of characters, themes and social impact?"

William Faulkner, as a southern writer in post slavery Mississippi.

[Monty J]

Edward wrote: "...he no longer had Zelda for ideas.."

When you're married to someone like Zelda, who has time for anything else? Raymond Carver had a similar focus, a tumultuous family life, that fed his writing career. Steinbeck's Cathy Trask (in East of Eden) and Curley's wife (in Of Mice and Men) were based on his second wife, Gwn Conger, who abused their children and ended up in a mental hospital. Spouses can be inspiring and despairing, or a combination of each. Steinbeck lucked out on his third try with Elaine and kept on trucking.

The other two men died young. Alcohol got SF at 40 and alcohol and cigarettes/cancer got Carver at 50.

No second acts for them.

Despite his failure at screenwriting and the booze and being drained by the expense of caring for Zelda, SF kept trying to finish his last novel, The Last Tycon, in Hollywood. I give him credit for not quitting.

But I agree that his comment "There are no second acts in American lives" are the words of a depressed alcoholic, certainly not his best.

[Kallie]

Steinbeck was very lucky. However courageous, he was not blacklisted or shunned for his writing and I don't get the impression that the backlash from GoW slowed him down much. The same can't be said for a lot of equally excellent writers who wrote what people considered insulting to their sense of cultural pride. Melville, Chopin, Hardy were all villified for what they wrote. None enjoyed Steinbeck's success though they were as deserving.

[Anne Hawn]

Monty J wrote: "But I agree that his comment "There are no second acts in American lives" are the words of a depressed alcoholic, certainly not his best. "

That brings up another topic. So many of the writers we are talking about have had tortured lives. It is obvious that they write out of their own pain, but can you reach this depth of knowledge without the personal pain? Can the golden boy or the prom queen write "Of Mice and Men" or do they write like Tom Clancy and Danielle Steel?

[Monty J]

Kallie wrote: "Steinbeck was very lucky. However courageous, he was not blacklisted or shunned for his writing and I don't get the impression that the backlash from GoW slowed him down much."

I certainly don't deny the deservedness of Melville, Chopin and Hardy.

But actually, after GOW Steinbeck was practically forced to move East for his safety and peace of mind. He was shunned in his hometown of Salinas and nearby Monterrey. Was spat upon and he and family members were insulted walking down the street. He received death threats by phone, waking him up at night, even after getting an unlisted number. A sheriff who was his friend told him never to be alone in a hotel room, warning him of a plot to hire a prostitute to knock on his hotel door, step inside and yell "rape." He wasn't even safe in San Franciso. He was licensed to carry a pistol and did so because of these threats. (This is all detailed in the Jackson Benson biography.)

You're right in that it didn't slow him down much, but the annual tax audits were a continuing problem for years.

Right wing extremism was and is alive and well in California's Central Valley and other agribusiness communities like the Imperial Valley/Salinas area.

[Kallie]

Monty J wrote: "Kallie wrote: "Steinbeck was very lucky. However courageous, he was not blacklisted or shunned for his writing and I don't get the impression that the backlash from GoW slowed him down much."

I c..."

I wondered. Thanks for elaborating. Sounds worse than than the work of internet trolls.

[Petergiaquinta]

Cemre wrote: "I think it would be more interesting if ı were American. No "maybe" there."

Yes, indeed...but in Turkey you have people who are outsiders, right? People who have dreams, people who work their entire lives and have nothing to show for it? There's something "American" about what George and Lennie and the other crippled, lonely characters of OMM are going through, but I don't think that limits the universal themes at work about the rich and the poor, the powerful and the weak, the insiders and the outsiders. And most of all, like most good books, OMM is about the power of love, a phrase that Huey Lewis ruined for me but I'm still going to type here. And that's about as universal as it gets.

[Karen]

Petergiaquinta wrote;
"And most of all, like most good books, OMM is about the power of love, a phrase that Huey Lewis ruined for me but I'm still going to type here."

Hahahahahaha!! Funny.

[Monty J]

Cemre wrote: "Do you think Holden IS Salinger ? Of course every realistic "Slice of Life" story is autographical to an extent, but do you think that Salinger is completely uncritical to Holden? Did he see him as..."

Salinger was quoted by a journalist as having said the novel was autobiographical. Web research bears this out.

Here's a Youtube interview of the headmaster of Valley Forge Academy, the military boarding school Salinger attended and the model for Holden's Pency Prep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qZXF...



Personally, I think Holden is Salinger's doppelganger.

[Anne Hawn]

Actually the great depression was pretty much global. Both crops and stocks fell in most of the developed nations and finances were intertwined.

[Monty J]

Cemre wrote: "But Monty do you think he's completely uncritical to Holden?"


If anything I think Salinger is overly critical of Holden, because he knows him so intimately. He certainly shows us enough of his flaws--arrogance, foul language, prejudice, lying, hiring a prostitute, etc.

[Kallie]

But in a way, when a writer shows a characters' flaws they are being more accepting than a writer who idealizes some and makes villains of others. I don't know if that is criticism so much as acceptance, and honesty about one's own flaws.

[Anup]

Catcher in the Rye is my favorite. The Stranger and Great gatsby are also wonderful piece of fiction. What are the parameters to rate any book??? I can't seriously agree on this issue. But well, I think books like Paulo Coelho's Alchemist can be replaced in this list.

[Karen]

Cemre wrote: "Well, ı was reading a Salinger biography, and it was telling about how the readers felt as if Holden were real, and how they were right since Holden was real, he was Salinger ! This bothers me a li..."

The Malcolm X of white suburban boys?? I don't get that at all.

[Monty J]

Karen wrote: "The Malcolm X of white suburban boys?? I don't get that at all."


"Suburban" is wrong, as Holden lived in an urban environment, where most of the action takes place.

But I can see a vague parallel, with Holden as an archetype for urban teenage boys railing against the sobering realities of adulthood and Malcolm X as representing disaffected black males seeking social justice.

In each case, the one represents the group. Malcom was a leader whereas Holden acted alone, but they could each be seen as representative of their respective group.

[Michael]

Anup wrote: "I think books like Paulo Coelho's Alchemist can be replaced in this list."

Yes! And at the top of that list (New Age novels) is James Redfield's The Celestine Prophecy. How it gained such astounding popularity is beyond me.

[Kallie]

Holden was a teenager though, and teenagers did not really exist as a group of their own until a certain time. Before, there had only been childhood, then if you were working class an abrupt entry into the adulthood grind. There is a great film on the subject, a documentary called 'Teenage'. I think it gets the advent of a new age group, named post WWII, pretty well.

[Mochaspresso]

Karen wrote: "The Malcolm X of white suburban boys?? I don't get that at all.
"

Neither do I. Eminem probably fits that category far more precisely and accurately than Holden Caulfield does in my opinion. It's not enough to relate to Holden's character and troubles to label him the "Malcolm X" of anyone. I think you'd also have to inspire, uplift and empower that person into some form of action. Does Holden really do that in the book? More importantly, do readers actually respond to him in such a manner? I don't think so.

edited to add: the only way that I could possibly see it is if you subscribe to the notion that Holden triggers something in some readers and inspires them to become killers. But even then, the Malcolm X comparison still doesn't fit.

bleh. I just don't like the idea of comparing Holden to Malcolm X. It seems very wrong and I won't do it and refuse to see it.....and you can't make me. nyah :p :)

[Karen]

Mochaspresso wrote: "Neither do I. Eminem probably fits that category far more precisely and accurately than Holden Caulfield does in my opinion. It's not enough to relate to Holden's character and troubles to label him the "Malcolm X" of anyone. I think you'd also have to inspire, uplift and empower that person into some form of action. Does Holden really do that in the book? More importantly, do readers actually respond to him in such a manner? I don't think so"

Not Eminem either, in my opinion. And you're right, it would have to be someone who not only inspires, but changes their own life in such a way to make a strong impact on a lot of people, and inspires people to think differentIy. I don't like that comparison; Malcolm X died for a vital cause- an important historical figure, to compare him to a fictional character does not make much sense to me.

[Kallie]

Cemre wrote: "Can you give the link of the documentary? If you can't, can you name the director ? I'm interested."

Try this:

http://watch32.com/movies-online/teen...

The director's name is Matt Wolfe. It's about youth movements in general before and up to when the term was coined, and uses archival footage from England Germany too.

[Monty J]

Mochaspresso wrote: "It's not enough to relate to Holden's character and troubles to label him the "Malcolm X" of anyone. I think you'd also have to inspire, uplift and empower that person into some form of action."


You don't have to be leader to be chosen as a social icon. CiTR came out in 1951. Lord of the Flies in 1954. Rebel Without a Cause and East of Eden (the James Dean version) arrived in 1955. To Kill a Mockingbird came out in 1960 and a film in '62. West Side Story was a hit musical film in 1961. S.E. Hinton's The Outsiders was published in '67. All these stories about adolescents still sell well, but CiTR outsells them all, maybe even combined.

Before Holden Caulfield, children were to be seen and not heard. He led a trend that hasn't stopped. "I see your adult stupidity! I have feelings too!" Holden's scream was echoed by Jim Stark and Cal Trask and Scout and the others.

Holden can't be compared to Malcolm X on a leadership plane, but if he doesn't mark the shift in social awareness giving recognition to teenagers then who does?

World War II followed Word War I, and Holden came out throwing verbal punches. Then there was Korea and Vietnam and today it's Iraq and the kaleidoscope of Middle Eastern conflict and Washington gridlock. Adults keep screwing up the world. Kids have a right to be pissed and question authority. We need more of it.

This kind of leadership doesn't compare with the courage of Malcolm X. Holden's is a different kind of leadership, involuntary modeling. Holden's just a character in a book, but so many people wouldn't keep buying it if they weren't sensing something important. After all, there's no vampires, no boys on flying broomsticks waving magic wands, no juicy sex.

[Renee E]

There seems to be an obvious glitch . . . the kids who scream at the adults for screwing up the world turn into the next generation of adults who screw up the world.

"And so on and so on and Scooby dooby doo-bee
Oh, sha sha, we got to live together"

[Karen]

Renee wrote;

"And so on and so on and Scooby dooby doo-bee
Oh, sha sha, we got to live together"

Lol! I needed that.

[E.D.]

Boom, shakalacka. :}

[Karen]

E.D. wrote: "Boom, shakalacka. :}"

good one!

[Jim]

OMG CatRye way over 140 characters WTF?

- a student of today

[Monty J]

Jim wrote: "OMG CatRye way over 140 characters WTF?

- a student of today"

CiTR has 24 characters. Where did you get 140?

[Liam]

I would add the Lord of the Rings series.

[E.D.]

Monty J wrote: "Jim wrote: "OMG CatRye way over 140 characters WTF?

- a student of today"

CiTR has 24 characters. Where did you get 140?"

I believe he was making a point about young student attention spans in the "tweet age". :}

[Monty J]

E.D. wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Jim wrote: "OMG CatRye way over 140 characters WTF?

- a student of today"

CiTR has 24 characters. Where did you get 140?"

I believe he was making a point about young student atte..."

Ah..., duh, 140 "characters."

[E.D.]

Monty J wrote: "E.D. wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Jim wrote: "OMG CatRye way over 140 characters WTF?

- a student of today"

CiTR has 24 characters. Where did you get 140?"

I believe he was making a point about young..."

Those of us who recall rotary dial phones often have such episodes. It is natural..., and keeps us awake. :}

[Karen]

E.D. wrote: "Monty J wrote: "E.D. wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Jim wrote: "OMG CatRye way over 140 characters WTF?

- a student of today"

CiTR has 24 characters. Where did you get 140?"

I believe he was making a p..."

I liked the rotary phones,it gives you time to think if you really want to make the call or not!

[Kallie]

Cemre wrote: "@Edward Drobinski
I said "cool", not cool."

A good distinction, since "cool" is often too self-conscious to be truly cool.

[Dolores]

Honestly, how can you compare Twilight with The Catcher in the Rye? I was never really interested in reading that last one, because I expected something really insightful and boring, but I actually really liked it. I don't think it's overrated. Maybe it's just surprising how people include a 200 pages book with a really simple plot in their "best books ever" lists. But I think it's a really good book. Nothing wrong with simplicity.

[Michael]

Dolores wrote: "Honestly, how can you compare Twilight with The Catcher in the Rye? I was never really interested in reading that last one, because I expected something really insightful and boring, but I actually..."

I find it interesting, Dolores, that you find insightful books to be boring. Could you explain what you mean?

[Anne Hawn]

Edward wrote: "Your convenient or misunderstanding insinuations and incorrect re-phrasings of what was said, suck as much as is becoming the obvious truth of your being nothing more than a painfully chromosome deficient plethora of one liners, stolen from the past. Dolores would do better to take her insights to a venue higher than one populated by you."

That diatribe is totally uncalled for!

Michael made a reasonable observation. I also wondered why Delores found insightful books boring. I'm sure she has reasons for her statement and would like to hear them.

Your comments are rambling nonsense while Michael's are usually insightful and sound with some wit thrown in for amusement. An attack of this sort does nothing for the group discussion.

[Karen]

Anne Hawn wrote: "Edward wrote: "Your convenient or misunderstanding insinuations and incorrect re-phrasings of what was said, suck as much as is becoming the obvious truth of your being nothing more than a painfull..."

I have noticed through experience that it is best to ignore the poster you are referring to, Anne.

[Renee E]

The block function is lovely.

You can read the threads without having to encounter festering pustules.

[Anne Hawn]

Renee wrote: "The block function is lovely.

You can read the threads without having to encounter festering pustules."

Thanks, I am going to do that. I wondered why so few people were responding to things Edward said.

[Kallie]

Yes, just having a choice helps.

[Geoffrey]

Pomposity is not next to godliness, however you may delude yourself the latter, Sr. Eduardo. And bs is bs, some more loathsome than others. Get off the pedestal and become human again.

[Stephen]

I feel these books are over-rated:

The Catcher in the Rye
The Da Vinci Code
Twilight
On The Road, et al

[Mochaspresso]

I agree about "On the Road". I'm not a beats fan either.

[Geoffrey]

Edward wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "Pomposity is not next to godliness, however you may delude yourself the latter, Sr. Eduardo. And bs is bs, some more loathsome than others. Get off the pedestal and become human ag..."

Like the rest of us.

[Colleen]

Stephen wrote: "I feel these books are over-rated:

The Catcher in the Rye
The Da Vinci Code
Twilight
On The Road, et al"

Love it or hate it, The Catcher in the Rye has substance and meaning. It will continue to survive.. The other books you mentioned, I think are just popular literature- written to get on the best seller lists and make money for the authors and then go away- as it should be.

[Stephen]

I feel if I had read The Catcher in the Rye while in high school I would've enjoyed it. But for me, as a college teacher I either would not assign Rye. I would assign Salinger's Zooey or Nine Stories instead. I feel that for all the top 50 books that the public touts, there are 100 more interesting and challenging titles that readers for some reason don't try their luck on. There's no accounting for taste.

[Karen]

Stephen wrote: "I feel if I had read The Catcher in the Rye while in high school I would've enjoyed it. But for me, as a college teacher I either would not assign Rye, or assign Salinger's Zooey or Nine Stories in..."

I enjoyed Catcher in the Rye more as an adult. I could empathize and understand Holden more, and appreciate his struggle.

[Anne Hawn]

Ginesthoi wrote: "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. Just could not get through that book."

I loved this book also. I thought it gave a real picture of life at that time and place and also what Francie was willing to go through to achieve more than was expected from her.

Whenever I see pictures of babies, I think of all that potential locked up inside them and then I wonder what is in store for them. How will their society either help them or attempt to beat them down? Francie's story is how one girl took control of the negative forces around her and overcame them.

[Danielle]

Lord of the Rings

I hate these books and movies!

[Monty J]

Danielle wrote: "Lord of the Rings

I hate these books and movies!"


LOTR was the second movie I ever walked out of, after about the third monster or dragon or whatever. Fantasy monsters don't do anything for me. They are a distraction, a diversion from the real monsters. I learned too well as a child what the real ones look like. They don't have tails and scaly skin. They wear suits and dresses and go to church and march around in uniforms and wave flags. They worship Ayn Rand and do their best to dismantle government so rich people can steal from the poor and the middle class.

And there are no magic swords to fight them with. Fake monsters are a waste of time for me.