The Most Overrated Books Showing 2,501-2,550 of 5,680

[Monty J]

Renee wrote: "Much like Ann Coulter(geist)"

Coulter(geist)---cracked me up!

[Paul Martin]

Cosmic wrote: that is what it feels like to me to engage Paul Martin in a conversation. He ask a question/inquiry and when you write something you realise it was a bait and switch. He added nothing to my knowledge of public schools and he spent most of his time convincing himself of what he has never experienced of homeschool

My goal wasn't to add anything to your knowledge about public schools. What I said was that I wondered about how being homeschooled influenced the development of a child.

The answer I got from you was a wall of text of anecdotal bragging of your own children mixed in with ridiculous claims and comparisons about public school and its teachers. As an example of how one-sided your response was, you didn't mention A SINGLE negative thing about homeschooling, whereas the ones that have defended public schools on this thread have gladly admitted its faults. That says something about you.

No, it wasn't intended as a bait and switch, unless you think addressing issues in a post as "bait and switch". If it bothers you that people pick apart your arguments, then maybe it would be a good idea to make arguments that aren't that easily picked apart. The fact that you're providing a link to ad hominem is just silly and involuntarily ironic seeing how it's you who are throwing out post where you call public school students sheep, and their teachers for agents of an organized prison.

Edit: Your post 2559 is yet another example of your sweeping and condescending generalizations.

Cosmic wrote: Anne, These are teachers. It obvious that they have the answers. They are in the business of asking the question and trying to make you conform to the answer that they are looking for. If you don't provide THAT answer they have to create massive pain."

Way to go.

[Kallie]

Geoffrey wrote: "I distinctly recall her news stories about her swimming laps back and forth in her private swimming pool in her mansion and having the servant run from one end of the pool to the other with kippere..."

That is so weird, like a scene from "The Big Lewbowski."

[Kallie]

Monty J wrote: "Renee wrote: "Much like Ann Coulter(geist)"

Coulter(geist)---cracked me up!"

Ha! Great one.

[Cosmic]

Gary wrote: " It wasn't Being and Nothingness but it was a good, solid re..."

Thank you for the book recommendation Being and Nothingness. I put this on on my list to read. I just discovered Decadence: And Other Essays on the Culture of Ideas which I think could have been an inspiration for Robert M. Pirsig values.
There is an essay on education that you might find interesting.

[Anne Hawn]

Paul Martin wrote: "Cosmic wrote: that is what it feels like to me to engage Paul Martin in a conversation. He ask a question/inquiry and when you write something you realise it was a bait and switch. He added nothing..."

Paul and others, Can you not read Cosmic's post of 2559 and feel how miserably public school failed her? Some of the things she says may seem extreme to you but that has been her experience. Can't you feel that 14 year old's pain in that poem? She's made a tremendous investment of time and love so that her boys don't have to go through the same thing. I have seen her pictures of what they have achieved with robotics and they are astounding. They are obviously thriving in homeschool and it was the right choice for her.

She has been on this board a long time and contributed much to it. There is no call to berate her for every flaw you see. I ignore a lot of what you say also. I don't want to prolong this, but someone needs to stand up for Cosmic who has a right to her own opinions and has contributed a great deal to this discussion group.

[Leslie]

Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul Martin wrote: "Cosmic wrote: that is what it feels like to me to engage Paul Martin in a conversation. He ask a question/inquiry and when you write something you realise it was a bait and swit..."

When one presents personal anecdote as a generalized fact, they are likely to run up against some conflict. When one directly insults another person by name, dismisses others choices or opinions as inferior to theirs, they are likely to run up against some conflict. When a person write essay-long posts about a book and repeats them over and over, then complains that they are being ignored or dismissed, it may be because there is a lack of interest in their topic or their book, in which case it makes sense to take that discussion to a thread about that topic or about that book. Seems pretty simple.

[Karen]

Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul Martin wrote: "Cosmic wrote: that is what it feels like to me to engage Paul Martin in a conversation. He ask a question/inquiry and when you write something you realise it was a bait and swit..."

Then don't prolong it. I agree with everything Leslie said above, it is beneficial to look in the mirror sometimes.

[Kallie]

Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul Martin wrote: "Cosmic wrote: that is what it feels like to me to engage Paul Martin in a conversation. He ask a question/inquiry and when you write something you realise it was a bait and swit..."

My problem is with how Cosmic generalizes about many of us in such a prejudiced way, calling us sheep with no curiosity, etc., and failing utterly to actually respond to our posts, which I think make clear that we are not sheep any more than she is and have no desire to turn our students into sheep either. She is insulting and rude in that way and refuses to take responsibility for how she communicates. We all have had our troubles Anne; that doesn't excuse a refusal to acknowledge that the other person may also have a valid point of view. Most of us have not put her down for homeschooling her children, but for her sweeping, unreasonable, ignorant attacks on public schools and those of us who have worked at or attended those schools.

[Monty J]

Kallie wrote: "My problem is with how Cosmic generalizes about many of us in such a prejudiced way, calling us sheep with no curiosity, etc., and failing utterly to actually respond to our posts, which I think make clear that we are not sheep any more than she is and have no desire to turn our students into sheep either. She is insulting and rude in that way and refuses to take responsibility for how she communicates."

I wonder if she was home schooled. Hey Cosmic, is this the case?

[Renee E]

http://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ

[Karen]

Renee wrote: "http://youtu.be/V2f-MZ2HRHQ"

LOL ! Good one.

[Kallie]

Good old Struther: "Don'cha wanta know WHY?"

[Cosmic]

Paul Martin wrote: "My goal wasn't to add anything to your knowledge about public schools. ..."

It wasn't my goal to mention A SINGLE negative thing about homeschooling.

Tolstoy said,
"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

I think this relates to how I feel about educational choices. I was happy homeschooling. I wasn't happy being forced to go to school. I did enjoy learning however and I was curious, probably because I guarded it.

Tolstoy was a huge advocate to "freedom". He believed that children should only be allowed to go to school and not forced.

I had a great time reading about his view of education and how he researched it and then went home and opened up a school based on his own theory of education.

You can read about it here if you like.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartb...

Here are some quotes from the article, that reflect some of the same sentiments that are found in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values:

"From his visits to the schools of Marseille, Tolstoy took away a gloomy impression of the futility of the subjects taught and the lifeless, unimaginative methods of teaching them. On the other hand, when he talked with workers and children on the streets, he found them intelligent, free-thinking, and surprisingly well informed, but with no thanks to their schooling.

This situation led him to conclude in a later account of these experiences, in an article entitled "On National Education":

"Here is an unconscious school undermining a compulsory school and making its contents almost of no worth.... What I saw in Marseille and in all other countries amounts to this: everywhere the principal part in educating a people is played not by schools, but by life."

Tolstoy believed that all education should be free and voluntary. He supported the desire of the masses for education, but he denied that the government or any other authority had the right to force it upon them. The logic of things, and his study of the operation of compulsory education abroad, convinced him that in this form it was an evil. Pupils should come to learn of their own accord, for if education were a good, it would be found as necessary as the air they breathed. If people were antagonistic, then the will of the people should become the guiding factor. Tolstoy's faith in the "will of the people," even though the people might oppose commonly accepted notions of progress, contained the seeds of his later anarchism, and was a direct slap at radical reformers who would uplift the masses against their will."

[Paul Martin]

Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul and others, Can you not read Cosmic's post of 2559 and feel how miserably public school failed her?"

Yes, I saw. Depite what you and Cosmic might think, I am not all that negative to homeschooling. I have several friends who never made it through high school, not due to lack of intelligence, but they simply didn't fit it. Neither did I really, I made it thanks to my mother (who is a teacher) and spent a lot of time with me and my brothers at home. So, a sort of part-time home schooling. Can homeschooling be a better option for certain children? Yes, I think so. Does that justify the blaming and shaming of public schools and its teachers? No.

She's made a tremendous investment of time and love so that her boys don't have to go through the same thing.

And that is where the problem is, when she bluntly blames the whole system and every teacher in it for what happened, and assumes that the exact same thing will happen to everyone else.

She has been on this board a long time and contributed much to it. There is no call to berate her for every flaw you see.

I don't. I berate her for offensive generalizations of the whole public educational system.

I ignore a lot of what you say also.

That is your choice. I am not in favor of letting people steamroll a certain topic, and I hope someone tells me if I am doing the same.

[Kaeri]

Recently, I'd say The Hunger Games Trilogy. Don't get me wrong, I loved the first book even if it reminded me too much of Battle Royale. I just didn't find Catching Fire and Mockingjay as good, the final book felt so all over the place. There are so many YA dystopian out there that deserve more attention.

[Karen]

Erika Etherviere wrote: "Recently, I'd say The Hunger Games Trilogy. Don't get me wrong, I loved the first book even if it reminded me too much of Battle Royale. I just didn't find Catching Fire and Mockingjay as good, the..."

I have never read The Hunger Games, what other YA dystopian books did you find that are better? I'm just curious, I don'read alot of YA books but my students do.

[Anne Hawn]

Erika Etherviere wrote: "Recently, I'd say The Hunger Games Trilogy. Don't get me wrong, I loved the first book even if it reminded me too much of Battle Royale. I just didn't find Catching Fire and Mockingjay as good, the..."

I agree with you. I thought the first book was great, the second was not as good and the last one took me over a year to finish. I was so aggravated with Katniss by then I wondered how anyone could relate to her. I didn't even think she made a decent anti hero.

[Anne Hawn]

Paul Martin wrote: "Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul and others, Can you not read Cosmic's post of 2559 and feel how miserably public school failed her?"

Yes, I saw. Depite what you and Cosmic might think, I am not all that ne..."

Thanks, Paul. I only care that people whose kids could benefit from homeschooling would look into it. It's not the homeschooling of the 70's. It can be richly rewarding, and despite the enormous investment of time these last 8 years, I would not have skipped a minute of it.

[Leslie]

Karen wrote: "...other YA dystopian books did you find that are better"

Genesis, by Bernard Beckett. It is a short book, but it's got some great themes! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...

[[deleted user]]

The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)

[Leslie]

Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)"

I'm right there with you on the Potter, Marii!! And I think JKR has nailed the "over-rated" coffin with her attempts post-Potter, that I feel totally justified in labeling her a "product" in the same category as effing Oprah. But, that she has gotten kids excited about reading...I still feel kind of douchy for dissin' her.

[Janden]

For me it was The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Couldn't imagine someone crying that much in real life. It really pissed me off.

Catcher in the Rye was another one for me.

The worst book I ever read was Ready Player One. Awful. Worst writing I've ever seen. Twilight fan fiction's fan fiction is better than that.

[Paul Martin]

Anne Hawn wrote: Thanks, Paul. I only care that people whose kids could benefit form homeschooling would look into it. "

Let's agree on that!

[Paul Martin]

Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)


I agree. Certainly not bad, but how it can be considered better or more important than, say, The Grapes of Wrath is beyond me.

[Karen]

Leslie wrote: "Karen wrote: "...other YA dystopian books did you find that are better"

Genesis, by Bernard Beckett. It is a short book, but it's got some great themes! https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6......"

This looks interesting.

[Karen]

Leslie wrote: "Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)"

I'm right there with you on the Potter, Marii!! An..."

I will finally admitt here that I enjoyed all the Harry Potter books. As a family we read them together and talked about them, it was fun and I thought those books were well written. I don't know if JKR can do anything else successfully though.

[Karen]

Paul Martin wrote: "Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)


I agree. Certainly not bad, but how it can be considered better or more important than, say, The Grapes of Wrath is beyond me."

Two books on my favorites list- I don't know if TGG is considered more important than The Grapes of Wrath, it certainly isn't.

[Paul Martin]

Karen wrote: I don't know if TGG is considered more important than The Grapes of Wrath, it certainly isn't.

Alright, I'll amend: How it can be considered on equal footing with The Grapes of Wrath is beyond me.

[Karen]

Paul Martin wrote: "Karen wrote: I don't know if TGG is considered more important than The Grapes of Wrath, it certainly isn't.

Alright, I'll amend: How it can be considered on equal footing with The Grapes of Wrath..."

They are both great American classics- TGG is my favorite book, I just finished a third reading at the beach.

[Paul Martin]

Karen wrote: They are both great American classics- TGG is my favorite book, I just finished a third reading at the beach.

Sure, but I find poverty an infinitely more powerful theme than wealth. You don't have to be American, or even know anything about The Dust Bowl, to appreciate The Grapes of Wrath. If you're ever asked why it's an important book, all you need to do is point that person in the direction of an impoverished suburb in any city in the world. In Europe it is maybe even more relevant, with the migrant workers from North Africa and how they are treated. I don't think anyone can read it and not have increased empathy for those wretched people risking their lives while crossing the the Mediterranean in search of a better life.

I just don't see those qualities, or anything of the same importance, in TGG.

[Karen]

Paul Martin wrote: "Karen wrote: They are both great American classics- TGG is my favorite book, I just finished a third reading at the beach.

Sure, but I find poverty an infinitely more powerful theme than wealth. ..."

You are right about the Grapes of Wrath and its importance, after it was written John Steinbeck became a hero to many. Of course around the world this book also has great meaning. We can't really compare that with the Great Gatsby. Those books are very different, but still great American classics.

[Kallie]

Paul Martin wrote: "Karen wrote: They are both great American classics- TGG is my favorite book, I just finished a third reading at the beach.

Sure, but I find poverty an infinitely more powerful theme than wealth. ..."

I might read it wrong but to me TGG is about the empty, immoral aspects of wealth. For some people there can never be enough money and entitlement, and certainly there cannot be enough to make up for lack of inner resources. Fitzgerald's deft writing style and use of irony and characterization make the book an American classic.

[Paul Martin]

Kallie wrote: "I might read it wrong but to me TGG is about the empty, immoral aspects of wealth. For some people there can never be enough money and entitlement, and certainly there cannot be enough to make up for lack of inner resources. Fitzgerald's deft writing style and use of irony and characterization make the book an American classic. "

I agree on everything, but a book can be both an American classic and overrated:)

Completely subjective, of course.

[Anne Hawn]

Karen wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)"

I'm right there with you on the Pot..."

I agree with you completely! We have read them as a family more than once. I love them as much as the kids! I am also a librarian and kids that never did any free reading came to my library asking for them.

[Kaeri]

Karen wrote: "Erika Etherviere wrote: "Recently, I'd say The Hunger Games Trilogy. Don't get me wrong, I loved the first book even if it reminded me too much of Battle Royale. I just didn't find Catching Fire an..."

The Chaos Walking trilogy by Patrick Ness is really leagues better. Partials Series by Dan Wells, Maze Runner series by James Dashner, and Unwind by Neal Shusterman are also good. There are a lot, really, but these are the first that come mind right now.

[Kaeri]

Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)"

I totally agree on Twilight! I just don't get it. I read it to give it a chance but I still don't get the obsession.

I'm curious as to why you picked Harry Potter. I love the series. I remember I used to hate the thought of reading but Sorcerer's stone was the book that catapulted me into my becoming a bookworm. I couldn't stop reading after, lol. I do agree that there are a lot of better fantasy books out there though.

[Karen]

Anne Hawn wrote: "Karen wrote: "Leslie wrote: "Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)"

I'm right there with ..."

Yes, I also saw this in my school, it got kids reading again.

[Karen]

Erika Etherviere wrote: "Marii wrote: "The Great Gatsby (Guess it's not my genre)
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Twilight
Harry Potter? (I know i'm gonna be hated for this)"

I totally agree on Twilight! I just don't get it. ..."

If Harry Potter can turn students into bookworms, I'm all for it.

[Cosmic]

Kallie wrote: "Paul Martin wrote: "Karen wrote: They are both great American classics- TGG is my favorite book, I just finished a third reading at the beach.

Sure, but I find poverty an infinitely more powerful..."

It would be interesting if women would rate The Great Gatsby over The Grapes of Wrath.

Or if the movie with Robert Redford helped it status.

I just think people would like to fantasize about what it is like to live where the grass is greener....more than a dust bowl. I admit that I have read The Great Gatsby twice but The Grapes of Wrath only once.

In some ways we have a different migrant worker. They corporation in order to get a pay raise. Many times this means a move, and a displacement of family/friends and your sense of identity in the world. So all the things in The Grapes of Wrath are probably more relevant to today's worker. The enticement of living in a larger than life world of Gatsby's is very enticing.

Sometimes I thought Steinbeck tried to put too many obstacles in the way of his characters that it was almost too much. Did one family have to suffer that much?

[Renee E]

Gotta vote for Grapes.

I remember liking most of Fitzgerald's short stories (the didn't stick in my head though), but could not, with numerous tries, finish Gatsby. I'd lay it down, forget where I put it or get bored and pick up something else. Nothing about it grabbed my attention.

And the only emotion the characters got from me was wanting to tell them, "get over yourselves," as I walked away, yawning. I guess there's something lacking in my literary taste, but, then, I didn't like the TV show Seinfeld either, for much the same [emotional] reason.

Steinbeck . . . even when the story got too grim for words (or words by anyone but Steinbeck), it was compelling.

I can't explain why, but Steinbeck and McCarthy, in my mind, are somehow literary brethren.

[Karen]

Renee wrote: "Gotta vote for Grapes.

I remember liking most of Fitzgerald's short stories (the didn't stick in my head though), but could not, with numerous tries, finish Gatsby. I'd lay it down, forget where ..."

Yes it is a matter of taste, I'll forgive you Renee, you also like Faulkner.

[Paul Martin]

I can't explain why, but Steinbeck and McCarthy, in my mind, are somehow literary brethren.

Really? Guess I should give McCarthy a try, despite Marks obvious distaste of him. Yo Mark, are you even out there anymore??

[Paul Martin]

Cosmic wrote: Sometimes I thought Steinbeck tried to put too many obstacles in the way of his characters that it was almost too much. Did one family have to suffer that much?

Based on what we know about the hazards of modern day refugees, I wouldn't say that it was too much, but there was a certain felling of inevitability about it.

[Kathy]

The Goldfinch got the Pulitzer prize for fiction. I thought is was poorly organized with unrealistic characters. All in all a real bore.

[Kallie]

Karen wrote: "Renee wrote: "Gotta vote for Grapes.

I remember liking most of Fitzgerald's short stories (the didn't stick in my head though), but could not, with numerous tries, finish Gatsby. I'd lay it down,..."

I need to read them both again but going on memory, Fitz buys too much into the rich people glamour fascination but has wit, grace and style. Steinbeck is a bit over-determined for my taste but a great writer of course, engaging in serious themes. So I won't vote for either I guess.

[Renee E]

Paul Martin wrote: "I can't explain why, but Steinbeck and McCarthy, in my mind, are somehow literary brethren.

Really? Guess I should give McCarthy a try, despite Marks obvious distaste of him. ..."

Hard to explain, and Cormack's a trying read sometimes, but to me, Steinbeck is to McCarthy as Jack London is to Jack Cady. A natural progression in literature and time. Not "one is better than the other," but this one is the generation that inherited.

If that makes any sense . . .


When language and therefore literature stop growing, changing and mutating, well, then you've got Latin.

[Karen]

Kallie wrote: "Karen wrote: "Renee wrote: "Gotta vote for Grapes.

I remember liking most of Fitzgerald's short stories (the didn't stick in my head though), but could not, with numerous tries, finish Gatsby. I'..."

Yes, but he also showed how phony the rich can be, his social commentary on the times around this topic was excellent.

[Kallie]

Karen wrote: "Kallie wrote: "Karen wrote: "Renee wrote: "Gotta vote for Grapes.

I remember liking most of Fitzgerald's short stories (the didn't stick in my head though), but could not, with numerous tries, fi..."

And so worthless (except for their money). Tom and Daisy are spoiled adolescents.

[Mensi]

When it comes to overrated books my number one on tha
t list isn't only a book but a whole genre, and those are distopian books. Sure, the first one you read has a certan appeal but as you go and read further it is all just one fake copy after another.