The Catcher in the Rye
discussion
The Most Overrated Books
It shouldn't be tolerated, ever. And we shouldn't need laws to make that so! We ought to be standing up, demonstrating our refusal to be complaisant victims to our children, teaching them how to live, not merely exist.
For heaven's sake, let's stop this. I only said that homeschooling was another option and gave some examples to respond to other's questions. I don't know how I got to be the enemy.I am a teacher and have taught in public & private schools as well as teaching in juvenile and adult correctional institutions. I found it easier to work at the training schools than in the Richmond public schools in my district and that signals a big problem, but I have great respect for the teacher who stayed in that system. Some of them are old friends. I am only offering another option that we happen to thoroughly enjoy.
I don't exactly know how I got to be "creepy" for having an opinion that differs from some people. I'm glad you have wonderful public schools for your children to go to. Not everyone does.
It really is a good option for some kids, in some circumstances and I'm glad homeschooling is finally moving into the mainstream. It can only be better for the kids. Back when I was in school, I knew a few homeschooled kids and they were, frankly, pretty much freaks. They were homeschooled because their parents were religious fanatics and those kids were totally clueless, ignorant and socially retarded — and obnoxious as hell. I think some people don't know that it has changed.
I know several kids (now graduated) who did home/online schooling and it's a completely different animal now. Sure, it's still a bit removed, and they have experienced some disjointedness encountering the big schoolyard that is the grown-up working world, but part of that is because they were somewhat removed already — which is what led them to homeschooling to start with.
It's a CHOICE, an option, as you say, Anne, and the only wrong choice is the one that's wrong for your child.
Karen wrote: "Well said. Adult bullying happens all the time."A recent example is the Hobby Lobby Decision. Any time a business owner can impose their religious beliefs on her workers it's bullying.
It's worse than a business owner, Monty. It's a corporation. A paper entity that the Supremes have, in this and other recent decisions, given the status and rights of a person.If a personally owned proprietorship wants to have certain religious principles, okay. That's a PERSON'S individual right, even though you and I might feel they're trying to impose their beliefs on others, well . . . but a corporation is not a person.
I wonder if Hobby Lobby is okay with their insurance covering ED drugs for their male employees . . . fornication and all that . . .
Renee wrote: "people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." ~ Frank Zappa ..."I like that quote. It reminds me of another one:
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
Cosmic wrote: "When my husband gets home from work he doesn't have to keep working for the man. This is another way that school is not like the real world. They bully kids and their parents to work for them for free so that they can get better test scores so they can get more money. What a scam. "That is completely ridiculous. Who gets more money? Homework = bullying? Shool is not like real world? Lots of jobs have "homework", as every high school teacher in the world can probably tell you.
Anne Hawn wrote: I don't exactly know how I got to be "creepy" for having an opinion that differs from some people. "It's not the opinion, it's the dishonest way of arguing about it, trying to create some sort of link between the term "public school" and "rape" and "murder".
Renee wrote: "It shouldn't be tolerated, ever. And we shouldn't need laws to make that so! We ought to be standing up, demonstrating our refusal to be complaisant victims to our children, teaching them how to li..."No we shouldn't need those laws, but we have them.
Monty J wrote: "Karen wrote: "Well said. Adult bullying happens all the time."A recent example is the Hobby Lobby Decision. Any time a business owner can impose their religious beliefs on her workers it's bullying."
I think if it is a small privately owned business, for example, a restaurant, then it's fine, although I will never understand it. When it is a large chain, it could get scary because what's next? A scenario where a worker get's pregnant out of wedlock and is fired for it? Lots to think about.
Paul Martin wrote: "Anne Hawn wrote: I don't exactly know how I got to be "creepy" for having an opinion that differs from some people. "It's not the opinion, it's the dishonest way of arguing about it, trying to cr..."
No, I said it happened in the school down the road that the group of children I was working with went to; the school my grandson would go to. They were kids on my street that I took caroling and had a party for. They were in and out of my house all the time because I liked having them around and doing things with them. They felt at ease with me and so they talked about what happened. I'd like to think I helped by listening to them.
I taught them to sew and to cook and in the process, the kids talked to me a lot and I heard about the things that troubled them in school. I also heard about great friends, good teachers, bullying, the pressure to conform, broken hearts and all the things that go on in middle school. From what I heard, I felt they were growing up too fast and that concerned me. It is one of the things that homeschooling helps with. In no way did I condemn the public school.
Why is there so much hostility to homeschooling? Why the pressure on me to conform? Why the snide remarks? There is a preconceived notion about homeschooling that is just not true and all my attempts to describe the value of it are twisted or ignored. It isn't the right thing for everyone, but when faced with a public school system that is not working for a particular child, it is an excellent alternative.
The GargoyleHeart of Darkness
Fijke wrote: "By the way, since people seem to be going back to the original topic of the thread occasionally: I really didn't enjoy reading the Princess Bride. I loved the movie, but the book just seemed to go ..."I bet a lot of the ratings are for the film, like a lot of novels turned into movies.
Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul Martin wrote: "Anne Hawn wrote: I don't exactly know how I got to be "creepy" for having an opinion that differs from some people. "It's not the opinion, it's the dishonest way of arguing ab..."
Anne, These are teachers. It obvious that they have the answers. They are in the business of asking the question and trying to make you conform to the answer that they are looking for. If you don't provide THAT answer they have to create massive pain.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hom...
Calling names and picking apart people's answers is fun for them. They lost their ability to be curious a long time ago. There is only one way to do something and for some of the ones that have attacked us so vehemently it is the public school way. Personally I find these kinds of conversations an psychological rape. Get the right answer or we will throw you under the bus. If this is how they teach at school I am definitely not interested in my children going to your schools. It is hostile learning environment, just like it is a hostile conversation. I doubt a child would open up to Paul Martin with the way he talks to us. Probably why he doesn't know what is going on in his school.
Just like the teacher loaning his car out to Stradlater so he could get a girl in the backseat and compromise her, that is what it feels like to me to engage Paul Martin in a conversation. He ask a question/inquiry and when you write something you realise it was a bait and switch. He added nothing to my knowledge of public schools and he spent most of his time convincing himself of what he has never experienced of homeschool. But homeschoolers wouldn't put up with him for their teacher. They know he is just parroting what he was told. Nothing new here.
It is an incredible sacrifice to homeschool a child rather than just farm them out to a "feedlot" i.e. public or private school.
Monty -
Comparing school to a prison is not something new or naive. You can Google "is school a prison" and you will find that is a pretty common thought. It looks like a prison, it acts like a prison (you can't go into a school without proper ID, they can lock down the whole school so that no one can get out. If youths get in a fight they don't take them to the principal's office they call the police, it is compulsory education).
When I was 14 I wrote a poem about school being prison....
"To sit down,
To face the front,
To read a book,
But to be a dunce.
These are the rules that are laid down
To keep the convicts from running round."
Also a book that was written before the homeschool movement:
The Twelve-Year Sentence: Radical Views on Compulsory Education
The topic was how to create quality learning over quantity based on the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values I have yet to hear how any of you would define quality education. Or any improvement on teaching children. You've been a little OCD on bashing anyone that had an alternative experience to homeschool. I imagine you feel threatened in some way, but it was not my intent.
Here is a inspiring article:
http://www.wired.com/2013/10/free-thi...
"Sergio Juárez Correa was used to teaching that kind of class. For five years, he had stood in front of students and worked his way through the government-mandated curriculum. It was mind-numbingly boring for him and the students, and he’d come to the conclusion that it was a waste of time. Test scores were poor, and even the students who did well weren’t truly engaged. Something had to change."
This book should help parents to believe that playing is child's work and should be taken seriously.
Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life
This author believes school is a prison and you can read his article here:
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/26/schoo...
I just finished reading Phantom of the Opera and am amazed at what a compelling story it is. I know I read it years ago, but I don't think I was in the right frame of mind. You have to have the time to live through it instead of just reading it. Like Dracula, the tension builds throughout the book until you are holding your breath, especially in the torture room. I was also intrigued by the descriptions of the vast underground warren and lake that exists under the Paris opera house. This underground world is also glimpsed in Les Miserables.
I recently read a popular novel that concerned the underground bone churches that was fascinating. http://www.bootsnall.com/articles/09-... and again was amazed at the vast underground world that ancient cities have.
All this is to say that many books like TCTR need to be read slowly and with your imagination as well as the literal part of your brain. Injecting yourself into TCTR evokes the confusion and inconsistency in the adolescent mind and it makes me think about various times in my life when I was trying to juggle a number of inconsistent, and largely unconscious thoughts in my life and how that led to some wildly embarrassing actions; something like that wonderful commercial where the woman says, "I wonder about other questionable decisions in my life." Then there is a video of her as a semi-hippie in 70's garb dancing wildly.
I looked at Holden's life and mine and thought that they were like an underground warren that exists under ancient cities, sometimes even including a "church of bones." The question then becomes how do you forgive yourself for actions in the past, some which have consequences in the present? Things like, "I lost that scholarship, just because I wanted to have a good time. What might my life be like now if I hadn't been so stupid?"
Reading about Holden's world reminds us that he was just a kid making stupid decisions because of churning unconscious struggles that he was unaware of...just like most of us. It makes it easier to laugh at our early life and then bury those bones.
Andrew wrote: "The GargoyleHeart of Darkness"
What did you not like about Heart of Darkness and the Congo Diary?
Have you seen the movie Apocalypse Now? They took some of the ideas/character for the movie from that book. I also found it interesting and amazing that Joseph Conrad wrote the book in English which was his second language.
Cosmic wrote: "Anne Hawn wrote: "Paul Martin wrote: "Anne Hawn wrote: I don't exactly know how I got to be "creepy" for having an opinion that differs from some people. "It's not the opinion, it's the dishonest..."
You could start a thread of your own about schooling based on ZatAoMM, and perhaps you can get the feedback you want there.
Cosmic wrote: "Monty - Comparing school to a prison is not something new or naive. "The same can be said for working in a factory or an office building. It's a matter of how you look at life. In a civilized populated society rules are needed to preserve order for the benefit of all and to avoid everyone's time being commandeered by a few free spirits and narcissists bent on having everything THEIR way. (I remember a couple of disruptive guys like this in high school. They were having a great time screwing us all over with their antics.)
It may feel like prison to them, but in a democratic society we compromise for the benefit of all.
Would you rather we follow the Middle Eastern model where a few tribal patriarchs are in continuous conflict? Rule by narcissistic turmoil. Thanks to Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged, America seems to be devolving in that direction.
Monty J wrote: "In a civilized populated society rules are needed to preserve order for the benefit of all and to avoid everyone's time being wasted by a few free spirits and narcissists bent on having everything THEIR way....in a democratic society we all must compromise to get along." Excellent point!
Anne Hawn wrote: "I just finished reading Phantom of the Opera and am amazed at what a compelling story it is. I know I read it years ago, but I don't think I was in the right frame of mind. You have to have the ..."I really like this, Anne. It's incredibly insightful, not just of the book(s) but of human nature and our own, personal and individual (and they are distinct) nature.
Leslie wrote: "Monty J wrote: "In a civilized populated society rules are needed to preserve order for the benefit of all and to avoid everyone's time being wasted by a few free spirits and narcissists bent on ha..."Big difference between free spirits and narcissists. A narcissist is the antithesis of the free spirit. In the narcissist's world, no one is free, not even the narcissist. It is a world of tyranny. It's an ugly place, a true dystopia.
The narcissist says, "I don't like it, therefore it is no good."
The free spirit says, "I don't want to do that, but if you do, I'll help you carry some of your stuff."
I thought some interesting quotes from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values might be interesting to some:"A student would always ask how the rule would apply in a certain special circumstance. Phaedrus would then have the choice of trying to fake through a made-up explanation of how it worked, or Foote the selfless route and say what he really thought. And what he really thought was that the rule was pasted post hoc, after the fact, instead of prior to the fact. And he became convinced that all the writers the students were supposed to mimic wrote without rules, putting down whatever sounded right, then going back to see if it still sounded right and changing it if it didn't. ...."
Page 170
"Quality...you know what it is, yet you don't know what it is. But that's self-contradictory. But some things are better than others, that is, they have more quality. But when you try to say what quality is, apart from the things that have it, it all goes of! There is nothing to talk about. But if you can't say what QUALITY is, how do you know what it is, or how do you know that it even exist? If no one knows what it is, then for all practical purposes it doesn't exist at all. But for all practical purposes it really does exist. What else are grades based on? Why else would people pay fortunes for some things and throw others in the trash pile? Obviously something's are better than others...but what's the "betterness"?... so round and round you go, spinning mental wheels and nowhere finding anyplace to get traction. What the he'll is Quality? What is it?" Page 178
"The student's biggest problem was a slave mentality which had been built into him by years of carrot-and-whip grading, a mule mentality which said, "If you don't whip me, I won't work." He didn't get whipped. He didn't work. And the cat of civilization, which he supposedly was being trained to pull, was just going to have to creak along a little slower without him.
This is a tragedy, however, only if you presume that the cart of civilization, "the system," is pulled by miles. This is a common, vocational, "location" point of view, but it's not the Church (of Reason) attitude.
The Church attitude is that civilization, or "the system" or "society" our whatever you want to call it, is best served not by mules but by free men. The purpose of abolishing grades and degrees is not to punish mules or to get rid of them but to provide an environment in which that mule can turn into a free man." Page 190
This reminds me of the bookPunished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A'S, Praise and Other Bribes
What do you think?
Renee wrote: "Big difference between free spirits and narcissists. A narcissist is the antithesis of the free spirit. In the narcissist's world, no one is free, not even the narcissist. It is a world of tyranny. It's an ugly place, a true dystopia."A good point. However, when making the distinction, it's important to note that many people will call themselves free spirits, when they are really narcissists. Part of that over-weaning, self-centered worldview is to justify itself untruthfully. An ethical free spirit will realize that his/er freedom stops when it comes to the freedom of others--just as any really ethical person concerned with freedom will--while a narcissist has no such concern.
Cosmic wrote: "I thought some interesting quotes from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values might be interesting to some:"A student would always ask how the rule would app..."
I think it deserves it's own thread.
True, Gary.But the Narcissists don't get to call the shots. Not in my world anyway. Not anymore. They're accountable by their actions, not the words with which they try to cover those actions.
As writers — and intelligent readers, we have a responsibility to words.
Monty J wrote: "Public schools should be so superior that few people would look for an alternative. This is what I experienced in Texas in the 1950-60s, and it's a shame public schools have deteriorated so. Where is the outrage over this deterioration? ..."Is it that the schools eroded first or that the family? Did schools bring families closer together or separate them? Did schools show children/adults how to get along? Could they have contributed to the high divorce rate? Indirectly by training that generation or directly by separating the child from the family unit? School is a man made invention, just like a factory. What is the history of schooling? What is their purpose? Hopefully you have some books you could reference.
Gary wrote: "Renee wrote: "Big difference between free spirits and narcissists. A narcissist is the antithesis of the free spirit. In the narcissist's world, no one is free, not even the narcissist. It is a wor..."That's how I was interpreting it too, though it is true that the terms on face value are antithetical, the manipulative narcissist will mold themselves to whatever label will get them what they wish, regardless of the feelings/wants of others, which they are unable to consider.
Cosmic wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Public schools should be so superior that few people would look for an alternative. This is what I experienced in Texas in the 1950-60s, and it's a shame public schools have deterio..."I think a new and separate thread for this topic is a good idea.
Renee wrote: "But the Narcissists don't get to call the shots. Not in my world anyway. Not anymore. They're accountable by their actions, not the words with which they try to cover those actions."Leslie wrote: "...the manipulative narcissist will mold themselves to whatever label will get them what they wish, regardless of the feelings/wants of others, which they are unable to consider."
There's a line by Lilly Tomlin that I've always liked:
"Ninety-eight percent of the adults in this country are decent, hard-working, honest Americans. It's the other lousy two percent that get all the publicity. But then--we elected them."
Here's the problem with narcissists (and others amongst the shitty 2% of people.) Typically, they are good liars. It's a pathology, of course, which means we have to think about it in terms of a mental disorder, but consider the nature of that disorder for a moment. Certain mindsets mean the person is lying to themselves constantly. 24 hours/day, 7 days/week. Lying to themselves, refining their lies, updating them, coming up with alternatives for different situations... on and on. I'm convinced certain folks I've had to deal with lie to themselves to fall asleep, dream about lying all night long, and lie first thing when they wake up, refreshed and ready for a day of dishonesty. They'd rather lie than tell the truth--even when the truth would be more effective, because, apparently, it's so much about going through the day with that feeling of putting one over on the rest of the world.
Of course, they have the limitations of their intellect. An idiot can't become a genius liar any more than a short, middle-aged, relatively over-weight white guy like me could become a pro basketball player. But s/he could become a relatively skilled one, just by merit of how much time they spend on the process, just as I'm sure I could hold my own on the court should I suddenly develop some sort of basketball mania. (Unlikely at best.)
My point is that shielding yourself from that kind of effort is a profound and equally life-long process, and not one that is always black and white.
(It's also a theme of Catcher in the Rye just to tie this into the actual topic at hand.)
Edit: Look how long Lance Armstrong was able to get away with his shenanigans.... Dishonesty plus shamelessness are a powerful combination to battle.
Leslie wrote: " think it deserves it's own thread. ..."This thread is about "overrated books":
"Which books do you think are overrated?
Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The Stranger
Ulysses
Atlas Shrugged
The Da Vinci Code
Twilight
What do you think? Do you agree? Any titles you'd add to the list?
Someone suggested the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
Adding some quotes from this book and opening it up for discussion seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Why would I start another thread? This discussion group is not just about The Catcher In The Rye, as stated above. If you think I am wrong you can always check with the moderator of the group. I don't think it is your place to say.
Leslie wrote: "You could start a thread of your own about schooling based on ZatAoMM, and perhaps you can get the feedback you want there. Thanks, but I've never read that book. I know it is very meaningful to Cosmic and I know a lot of other people found it very valuable.
Cosmic wrote: "Leslie wrote: " think it deserves it's own thread. ..."This thread is about "overrated books":
"Which books do you think are overrated?
Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that ..."
I cerrainly think it is my place to say it, and I just did.
Uh-oh . . . are we gonna need a break stick?**dog nerd reference ;-)
Gary wrote: "good point. However, when making the distinction, it's important to note that many people will call themselves free spirits, when they are really narcissists. Part of that over-weaning, self-centered worldview is to justify itself untruthfully. An ethical free spirit will realize that his/er freedom stops when it comes to the freedom of others--just as any really ethical person concerned with freedom will--while a narcissist has no such concern. ..."Wow, kinda timely in light of my quotes from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values. Would you care to comment on freedom versus the carrot-and-stick method that is in the quotes from the book. Is the "system" itself narcissistic and produces or encourages people to become narcissistic? Or does it really inspire cooperation?
I like what Renee said, "But the Narcissists don't get to call the shots. Not in my world anyway. Not anymore. They're accountable by their actions, not the words with which they try to cover those actions."
Or as I have said, actions speak louder than words.
Cosmic wrote: "Someone suggested the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values"I've read it. I liked it. It wasn't Being and Nothingness but it was a good, solid read. A lot of folks do really love it, but I don't know if it's over-rated. It's got a 3.72 at this moment on Goodreads with over 100,000 votes. That's below what I gave it (4 stars) but would indicate that people aren't holding it up as a great work when it's not.
Cosmic wrote: "Leslie wrote: " think it deserves it's own thread. ..."This thread is about "overrated books":
"Which books do you think are overrated?
Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that ..."
You asked "what do you think"...and that is what I think...don't "open the floor" if you don't want feedback.
Cosmic wrote: "Andrew wrote: "The GargoyleHeart of Darkness"
What did you not like about Heart of Darkness and the Congo Diary?
Have you seen the movie Apocalypse Now? They took some of the ideas/..."
I found Heart of Darkness boring. I appreciate the language was clever, especially for Conrad not speaking English naturally. But it lacked any sort of compelling story.
I have seen Apocalypse Now, noted similarities, but that film had an intriguing plot.
Andrew wrote: "But it lacked any sort of compelling story...."I can see what you are saying. I wonder if his audience at the time had a lot of emotional baggage around the Congo that made it more compelling then than now. Seems like he may have left out too much.
Cosmic wrote: "Here is a inspiring article:http://www.wired.com/2013/10/free-thi...
"Sergio Juárez Correa was used to teaching that kind of class. For five years, he had stood in front of students and worked his way through the government-mandated curriculum. It was mind-numbingly boring for him and the students, and he’d come to the conclusion that it was a waste of time. Test scores were poor, and even the students who did well weren’t truly engaged. Something had to change."
That is a truly inspiring article! Thanks Cosmic!
Anne Hawn wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Here is a inspiring article:http://www.wired.com/2013/10/free-thi...
"Sergio Juárez Correa was used to teaching that kind of class. For five years, he had stood in front of student..."
I first heard this man speak on a TED talk. It was a great educational experiment. Teaching children just by placing a computer in their village and then letting them figure out how it worked. In the meantime the computer taught them about viruses and English. The children collaborate together to learn. There were no test. At the end he had an impromptu question and answer to find out what they knew. Learning what children know because they can converse about it is a different level of learning than just parroting back answers for a test.
Anne Hawn wrote: " All this is to say that many books like TCTR need to be read slowly and with your imagination as well as the literal part of your brain. ..."If you decide to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values you will notice that the protagonists takes his son on a motorcycle trip. On this trip they read Walden . They read this book in this slow contemplative style. He is demonstrating the kind of learning that represents QUALITY. It isn't about how many books they can read. It is about reading the book, stopping and allowing the son to ask questions. It is about a quality relationship. A relationship with the son and with the parent. There is a meaningful investment in this kind of learning that will pay huge dividends in the future.
Gary wrote: "Renee wrote: "But the Narcissists don't get to call the shots. Not in my world anyway. Not anymore. They're accountable by their actions, not the words with which they try to cover those actions."..."
Dishonesty and shamelessness-I attribute that to sociopathy, not so different from narcissism.The narcissist feels his feelings and desires are of Paramount importance to the disadvantage of others. Lenora Helmsley was a narcissist as is Paris Hilton.
Why only the Little people pay taxes and the common folk drinking and driving laws.
Geoffrey wrote: "Lenora Helmsley"Leona empitomized narcissism. I jumped up and cheered when she was sentenced to prison.
For you younger folks, here's an introduction to the "Queen of Mean" (for whom my kids nicknamed my ex wife.):
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_...
Monty J wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "Lenora Helmsley"Leona empitomized narcissism. I jumped up and cheered when she was sentenced to prison.
For you younger folks, here's an introduction to her:
http://www.crimelib..."
Me too! Thanks for the fond memory.
Karen wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "Lenora Helmsley"Leona empitomized narcissism. I jumped up and cheered when she was sentenced to prison.
For you younger folks, here's an introduction to her:
htt..."
That's quite the Adam's apple in that photo...Leona or Leonard??
Leslie wrote: "Karen wrote: "Monty J wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "Lenora Helmsley"Leona empitomized narcissism. I jumped up and cheered when she was sentenced to prison.
For you younger folks, here's an introducti..."
She must have had a hormone issue of some sort.
Much like Ann Coulter(geist)
I distinctly recall her news stories about her swimming laps back and forth in her private swimming pool in her mansion and having the servant run from one end of the pool to the other with kippered herring and she would pause at each end and tell him, "Feed the fishee, feed the fisheee". What a clown.
Monty J wrote: "Geoffrey wrote: "Lenora Helmsley"Leona empitomized narcissism. I jumped up and cheered when she was sentenced to prison.
For you younger folks, here's an introduction to the "Queen of Mean" (for..."
Thanks for the link Monty, I had a great time reading it. Although pretty disappointed she died the wealthiest woman.
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I don't know that bullying is actually worse than ever, but it is certainly more tolerated, over..."
With the strict anti-bullying law, at least in my state, it is not tolerated at all at the school I work in. We are fortunate.