The Catcher in the Rye The Catcher in the Rye discussion


11982 views
The Most Overrated Books

Comments Showing 201-250 of 5,680 (5680 new)    post a comment »

message 201: by Ian (last edited Dec 11, 2013 12:52AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Ian @ RachelAnne, I don't think 50 shades really counts because no one thinks highly of it or considers it art. It is an internet ero fanfiction for Twilight that somehow got published. This thread is about overrated literature, not overrated pornography. Having said that, It does suck from what I've heard. I was at the airport and saw a girl reading and laughing her ass off. When I asked what she was reading, she showed me the cover of 50 Shades and said in a thick German accent, "Zee English trying to write erotica."


message 202: by [deleted user] (new)

Hello everybody!

I´d like to add "Ship of Fools" and the most of the works of Pearl S. Buck...


message 203: by Skip (new) - added it

Skip The Stranger and Waiting For Godot are great books. What is it a fanciful current thing to say those books are over rated? The Da Vinci Code, how does that make any list but weak entertainment?
Here is an addition to your list of over rated, anything by Hemingway.


message 204: by Skip (last edited Dec 11, 2013 03:51AM) (new) - added it

Skip Skip wrote: "The Stranger and Waiting For Godot are great books. What is it the fanciful current thing to say those books are over rated? The Da Vinci Code, how does that make any list but weak entertainment? Over rated? Anything by Hemingway.


message 205: by Sonia (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sonia The Bible is actually a complete book. The Old Testament gives important back ground and history and prophecy that is brought forward (or in the case of prophecy, fulfilled, in the New Testament. You can't have one without the other.


message 206: by Reza (new) - rated it 5 stars

Reza Haider There's a difference between great works of literature and top sellers, one does not necessarily equate the other and vice-versa. Just because a book sells doesn't mean that it is highly-rated, just that it was read by a large group of people. A book may be beloved but not great (Da Vinci Code?)

It would be silly to put something to compare Don Quixote to 50 Shades of Grey just because they have both sold an insane amount of copies.

The Catcher in the Rye, Moby Dick, Great Gatsby, Waiting for Godot, The Stranger and Ulysses are certainly not over-rated, however. I will go along with you regarding Da Vinci Code and Twilight and would like to add the Lord of the Ring series and Harry Potter for consideration.


message 207: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes, I would agree that Tolkiens work is very overrated! Same with Harry Potter - nice literature for kids, nothing to be compared to Ulysses or The Great Gatsby...


message 208: by Ken (new) - rated it 1 star

Ken I was with you until you put down Tolkien. The man created languages and wrote a fictional history of Britain. You can't compare that to Harry Potter.

As for Catcher in the Rye, it is at best a coming-of-age novel expressing the plight of being a teenager. At worst it is right up there with Twilight in angst-ridden shallow indulgence.


message 209: by Paula (last edited Dec 14, 2013 11:01AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Paula OVERRATED-
that means it is perceived to be more than it is.

More than any other description OVERRATED is totally subjective- what impacts me will be different than what impacts you- A 10 year old who's imagination is ignited and starts avidly reading after the first harry potter book- that book is completely relevant and impactful to that person- not at all overrated.

It can mean anything to anyone- popularity, longevity, perceived cultural value, social impact, sales, acceptance by educators or critical acclaim. Overrated does not have to focus on perennial classics or popular best sellers, old or new.

I love the open dialogue, but Im disappointed in the people (and this is not a response to the immediately previous posts) who degrade others for an opinion that conflicts with their own. Lets keep it about the books and not make personal judgments about the people who are participating in this conversation.


Stella (NotAnEarlyBird) I haven't read most of them, but my list would definatelly include Anna Karenina and To Kill a Mockingbird.


message 211: by Jim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jim Swike Life of Pi and Cloud Atlas.


message 212: by Jim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jim Swike The English Patient


message 213: by Brad (new) - rated it 5 stars

Brad Lyerla Atlas Shrugged stinks and Brown seems like a hack, so I am guessing that DaVinci Code is bad too. I would add anything by John Grisham. His stories are absurd.


message 214: by Jim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jim Swike East of Eden


message 215: by Jim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jim Swike I was expecting more from John Steinbeck


Monty J Heying Eat Pray Love


message 217: by Ken (new) - rated it 1 star

Ken Monty, absolutely!


message 218: by Monty J (last edited Dec 17, 2013 10:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Monty J Heying Elyse wrote: "It was 'as if' 'nobody'??? has ever cried in a bathroom before....WHY the HYPE? "

It was the scene that went on an on about getting bitten by a mosquito that made me put it down the last time.

I've still got the book. It's in my "to be given away" box. I tried 4 times to read it wondering what the hubub was about. Borders hyped it like crazy. Now Borders is no more. Maybe that says something.

Maybe I'll try again. It's just that the writing is so immature that I can only take it in small doses and between attempts I lose interest in the "plot" such as it is.

Maybe it should be classified as a romance novel. Nothing against that genre; it's just not my reading fare.

I saw the film and, though Julia Roberts gave a very credible performance, it felt shallow. Maybe because there was nothing new or revelatory, for me. I've been practicing yoga for decades. I've spent time in an ashram. I have no interest in "great food." Hedonism bores me.

(addendum)
[Wikipedia] "In early 2010, the feminist magazine Bitch published a critical review and social commentary called "Eat, Pray, Spend". Authors Joshunda Sanders and Diana Barnes-Brown wrote that 'Eat, Pray, Love is not the first book of its kind, but it is a perfect example of the genre of priv-lit: literature or media whose expressed goal is one of spiritual, existential, or philosophical enlightenment contingent upon women’s hard work, commitment, and patience, but whose actual barriers to entry are primarily financial. 'The genre, they argued, positions women as inherently and deeply flawed, and offers 'no real solutions for the astronomically high tariffs—both financial and social—that exclude all but the most fortunate among us from participating.'"


message 219: by Michael (last edited Dec 18, 2013 05:02AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Michael Sussman It's clearly a matter of taste. Someone listed East of Eden, which is one of my favorite novels. I also love Catcher in the Rye, but understand it when my teenage son can't relate to it.

My top choice is Infinite Jest, even though I think Wallace was brilliant & I thought Brief Interviews with Hideous Men was fantastic.

I'd like to have an opinion about Ulysses and Gravity's Rainbow, but can't manage to make any headway.


message 220: by Kallie (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kallie Monty J wrote: "Elyse wrote: "It was 'as if' 'nobody'??? has ever cried in a bathroom before....WHY the HYPE? "

It was the scene that went on an on about getting bitten by a mosquito that made me put it down the ..."


I think 'shallow' is a good one-word dismissal of this book. But the critical review by Sanders and Barnes-Brown points out a serious problem: this sort of book perpetuates a view of women as frivolous and self-involved; it doesn't show how serious many women are about their spiritual practice, or becoming stronger in character (however one wants to word that). To me Eat Pray Love represents thoughtless consumerism at its worst because of the spiritual pretensions. I couldn't get past the first ten pages so maybe I'm being too harsh.


Monty J Heying Kallie wrote: "I think 'shallow' is a good one-word dismissal of this book. But the critical review by Sanders and Barnes-Brown points out a serious problem: this sort of book perpetuates a view of women as frivolous and self-involved; it doesn't show how serious many women are about their spiritual practice, or becoming stronger in character (however one wants to word that). To me Eat Pray Love represents thoughtless consumerism at its worst because of the spiritual pretensions."

Bingo! You've just given me a reason to finish the book. It exposes serious flaws in society. When we see ourselves in a flawed character we are given an opportunity to change. Like Heartbreak Kid, EPL reveals the shallowness of some human values that are all to common.


John L Kane When I read a classic and struggle, I often blame myself thinking that I will get it on a second read or later in life. To that end, I have read Gatsby 4 times and still think it is overrated. I like all of FSF's other books. I liked parts of Moby Dick and it has some great lines but all the whale blubber processing...sheesh.


message 223: by Jim (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jim Swike There are so many references to Waiting for Godot that I am glad I read it, or I wouldn't have gotten the reference. I admit it was in high school.


message 224: by Jesse (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jesse I loved Catcher in the Rye and The Da Vinci Code. The rest I agree are terrible!

Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."



message 225: by S.W. (new) - rated it 4 stars

S.W. Gordon Every book has a purpose: perhaps to entertain, perhaps to enlighten, perhaps to ridicule. I enjoy them all---for what it's worth.


message 226: by Matt (last edited Dec 20, 2013 09:34AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Matt look... I'm going to be that pretentious guy. some of these books, if you don't like them, that's fine, but you also didn't get them (if you honestly think they're overrated and not worth the paper they're printed on). I know that's a lame defense: "you just don't get it." but you don't. there's historical and political context for some of these to consider, and while I know you should be able to enjoy a book and not have to do any homework about when it was written or why or by whom, it does matter. For the most part, I agree that all that shit shouldn't matter. I should not have to read or learn anything additionally before or after I read a novel. I should be able to read a novel and get it. But some novels aren't like that and require a different kind of appreciation and and patience and understanding. so yeah, i'm that guy. rail me for pretentiousness. I like dissecting work I found frustrating, or work that is highly praised, to understand its merits. Often, though I still don't love it, I respect it and don't call it overrated. There's something important in some of these works worth discussing and passing down.

And hey, I'm not saying you have to "get it" either. Please: read for pleasure and read what you like. Who the fuck am I to judge, right?

(Message 48: Emma, above, has a point too.)


message 227: by Tatev (last edited Dec 20, 2013 09:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tatev I don't see how Twilight and Da Vinci Code ended up in this list... The rest can be a subject of a very interesting and sophisticated debate


message 228: by Matt (new) - rated it 4 stars

Matt S.W. wrote: "Every book has a purpose: perhaps to entertain, perhaps to enlighten, perhaps to ridicule. I enjoy them all---for what it's worth."

AMEN.


message 229: by Kallie (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kallie Matt wrote: "look... I'm going to be that pretentious guy. some of these books, if you don't like them, that's fine, but you also didn't get them (if you honestly think they're overrated and not worth the paper..."

You make some good points in this post. If I find a book challenging and see it through anyway, that's to my benefit. If it's too challenging or offends my sense of whatever, why not just say that instead of dissing the book. So you've made me re-think how I comment on some literary works; they may be too challenging or offend me but that doesn't mean they are overrated. (I don't include entertainment type novels in this discussion.)


message 230: by Matt (new) - rated it 4 stars

Matt Kallie wrote: "Matt wrote: "look... I'm going to be that pretentious guy. some of these books, if you don't like them, that's fine, but you also didn't get them (if you honestly think they're overrated and not wo..."

respect. :)


message 231: by Emma (new) - rated it 1 star

Emma Matt wrote: "look... I'm going to be that pretentious guy. some of these books, if you don't like them, that's fine, but you also didn't get them (if you honestly think they're overrated and not worth the paper..."

You are probably right. Even though I personally don't like some books, I accept that others love them and that my opinion/taste is not the end all, be all. I also like to dissect books to find out what their merits are (actually, I don't think it is fair to give a negative review of a classic novel unless you do the “homework”), but sometimes I still don't find any. I'm sure you are right, I just don't “get it.” I agree that saying a book is not worth the paper it is printed is a ridiculous assertion. I hate ice cream but I don't go around saying that all ice cream should be thrown away. On the other hand, it is really annoying when you don't like something and people keep trying to force it on you (people do this with ice cream all of the time) saying that you are too stupid or that you don't understand it. Understanding is not synonymous with liking. I can “get” a joke without thinking it is funny. By the way, I have heard the “you don't get it” argument used in defense of Twilight (now that I don't get).


message 232: by Emma (new) - rated it 1 star

Emma S.W. wrote: "Every book has a purpose: perhaps to entertain, perhaps to enlighten, perhaps to ridicule. I enjoy them all---for what it's worth."

I think this is probably the best post on this entire thread. Sometimes it is far more satisfying to complain about a book you don't like than it is to expound the virtues of one you love.


message 233: by Kallie (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kallie Yet--I never heard 'this' book talked about in gyms-hair salons -on Oprah -or around town.


Yes, media hype overlooks some (maybe a lot of) excellent writers and their books, and that's a shame.


message 234: by Anne Hawn (last edited Dec 21, 2013 08:27AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Anne Hawn Smith I don't think it is fair to give a negative review of a classic novel unless you do the “homework”), but sometimes I still don't find any. I'm sure you are right, I just don't “get it.” I agree that saying a book is not worth the paper it is printed is a ridiculous assertion.

When I was a junior in high school we had to read Alice in Wonderland and we all were insulted at having to read a children's book. We soon learned that it could be read on two levels. Once we started studying it, everything changed. One thing I remember especially was the poem called "Jabberwocky." Even though the poem filled with nonsense words you have a complete idea of what the poem is about because of the word patterns, but when you actually pay attention to the words you see his genius.

"Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

(We know just where this is going despite the silly words.)

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

How horrible can a "Jubjub" bird be?

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!"

"Uffish thought" doesn't sound like something a hero would do, and how does a Jabberwock with "eyes of flame" "whiffle?"

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

A "vorpal blade going "snicker-snack?" A fearsome Jabberwock goes "galumphing?"

The wordplay is fantastic and it is all through the book. There is political satire, social commentary and all sorts of things to appeal to adults. In fact, this is a book written by a person of great logic playing games with a children's story.

This book is like so many of the classics. If we hadn't studied the book and "done the homework" we would still be thinking that this book is just a clever children's story.


message 235: by Matt (new) - rated it 4 stars

Matt I would just like to say, the general civility in this thread is heart-warming. Usually people get nutty and profane thanks to the internet's anonymity. Congrats to you all for discussing this crap politely with your fellow humans! Ha ha ha!


message 236: by Monica (new) - rated it 2 stars

Monica Madaus Anything by Neitzsche


message 237: by Ali (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ali Massey Great Expectations. I don't know how anyone got through that book without a gun pressed against their head. So many characters introduced immediately. I didn't care about ANY of them. I skimmed through it during high school. I HATED that book.


message 238: by Ana (new) - rated it 1 star

Ana Preveden Lukenda Agree, also... but with Kenneth. Moby Dick is a fine piece of work, for me.
I would ad to your list - The Alchemist.

Kenneth wrote: "Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waitin..."



Anne Hawn Smith Elyse wrote: "BOTH my daughters 4 years apart in age --28 an 32 now --were 'big' "Alice in Wonderland" fans ---
They each went around saying the Jabberwocky poem over and over in our house. (in around 4th grade..."


We also liked "The Walrus and the Carpenter."


message 240: by Anne Hawn (last edited Dec 23, 2013 09:59AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Anne Hawn Smith Matt wrote: "I would just like to say, the general civility in this thread is heart-warming. Usually people get nutty and profane thanks to the internet's anonymity. Congrats to you all for discussing this crap..."

Thanks, Matt, for pointing that out. I think you are right. I've followed this thread almost since the beginning and I keep coming back to see what others have said. There are a lot of very thoughtful comments here and I've learned a lot.

Unfortunately, that is not true for a lot of commentaries. Some people can not disagree without being insulting and that's a shame. It shuts off the free flow of ideas and the person doing the insulting learns nothing.


message 241: by Matt (last edited Dec 23, 2013 11:35AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Matt Anne Hawn wrote: "Matt wrote: "I would just like to say, the general civility in this thread is heart-warming. Usually people get nutty and profane thanks to the internet's anonymity. Congrats to you all for discuss..."

Yeah. For sure. Some of the threads here are WARZONES. Caps Lock necessary.


message 242: by Lee (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lee Lipps Sonia wrote: "The Bible is actually a complete book. The Old Testament gives important back ground and history and prophecy that is brought forward (or in the case of prophecy, fulfilled, in the New Testament. Y..."

Poppycock! The old testament is replete with misogyny, sexism, hate, adultery, polygamy, murder, involuntary servitude, incest, inconsistency, contradiction, and classism. In short, it would make for a best seller today....but it's not literature.

The new testament is interesting philosophy in the same vein as Siddhartha, The Stranger, and Bartleby the Scrivener. You needn't believe in it to have a healthy discussion around it and it generally espouses positive virtues for mankind and not salacious ones.

I confess that I do not see where the prophecies of the Old Testament come to fruition in the New and would suggest that the New Testament can stand entirely on its own and that US society might be better off if the old testament didn't exist to be quoted as some kind of higher authority by the haters in our society.


Evalangui One wrote: "It's all very subjective. A few of them are obvious classics and certainly shouldn't be considered over rated. I think the modern works like Twilight and Hunger Games get to much attention, but m..."
Not really, classics have lasted for many reasons, only one of which is quality. For starters, once the authorities say a book is good, lots of people are willing to repeat that just not to look like they don't get it. Not to mention that books that support the status quo are obviously reaffirming the ideas people have about the world and are comfortable for them to read. I do agree with you that it is subjective, this applies to everything, classics included, though.


message 244: by Anne Hawn (last edited Dec 25, 2013 08:12AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Anne Hawn Smith "Not really, classics have lasted for many reasons, only one of which is quality. For starters, once the authorities say a book is good, lots of people are willing to repeat that just not to look like they don't get it. Not to mention that books that support the status quo are obviously reaffirming the ideas people have about the world and are comfortable for them to read. I do agree with you that it is subjective, this applies to everything, classics included, though."

I think you will find that many of the classics that have changed the world: Uncle Tom's Cabin, A Christmas Carol, The Jungle, Common Sense, The Communist Manifesto, On Liberty, Brave New World, 1984...and many, many more. "The pen is mightier than the sword."

I agree with you that many of today's best sellers are only read because everyone is reading them and and there are many of dubious quality, but the classics are different.

Disliking the classics in general is like saying Pavarotti didn't have a good voice because you don't like opera.

http://oedb.org/ilibrarian/50_books_t...


message 245: by Ana (new) - rated it 1 star

Ana Preveden Lukenda Anne Hawn wrote: ""Not really, classics have lasted for many reasons, only one of which is quality. For starters, once the authorities say a book is good, lots of people are willing to repeat that just not to look l..."
"Disliking the classics in general is like saying Pavarotti didn't have a good voice because you don't like opera. " - sorry, but have to disagree with this... Although I love most of the classics...
Disliking the classics in general would be more like disliking the opera in general, because - maybe I just don't like the opera, and it has nothing to do with me thinking that Pavarotti doesn't have a good voice...


message 246: by Anne Hawn (last edited Dec 25, 2013 08:03AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Anne Hawn Smith "Disliking the classics in general would be more like disliking the opera in general, because - maybe I just don't like the opera, and it has nothing to do with me thinking that Pavarotti doesn't have a good voice..."

That is exactly the point. I wasn't making a comparison between categories but in opinions. For example, I say something is crap...Pavarotti's voice, because I don't like type of singing...opera. I think War of the Worlds is crap because I dislike science fiction. I think the classics are crap because they don't entertain me. (None of these things are what I really think and I never say something is "crap" even if it is.)

Anyone has the right to dislike any of those thing based on personal preference, but if a person wants to condemn something that most people find worthwhile, it's best to be able to say why you don't like it...poor vocabulary, weak plot, uninteresting subject etc.


message 247: by Geoffrey (last edited Dec 25, 2013 08:42AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Geoffrey Elyse
I suspect each one of us has read several books that they feel the same about. That book was so great and brilliant and no one has ever heard of it. 12 years ago I read a book titled SMALL or SMAIL by a French/Algerian author about a Young Arab, extremely bright, who is trying so hard to both avoid overt prejudice/discrimination in France and succeed as a professional person but who eventually succumbs to the skin trade. Anyone out there know the book?


message 248: by Geoffrey (last edited Dec 25, 2013 08:49AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Geoffrey EAT PRAY LOVE
Actually, I was hard pressed to understand why she left her husband. Perhaps I missed something? But considering Monty´s comments that the book is shallow, it´s understandable the reason for her departure. The fault in the marriage lay in the author.
I did enjoy the movie as I love watching Roberts, no matter what flick she´s in. Bardem´s brilliant acting awakened my interest in his career I had never seen him before.


message 249: by Paula (new) - rated it 1 star

Paula I have to disagree a little with Ann. A lot of classics were results of cultural change- not the cause. They are proof of the exact time in which a paradigm shift hit the mainstream, a sign of critical mass of a certain issue. They are held up as examples of that change, not the cause of it.


message 250: by [deleted user] (new)

I don't think you should automatically approach a classic novel expecting it to be better than modern novels. That's not very fair to modern writers, is it? :)


back to top