The Catcher in the Rye
discussion
The Most Overrated Books
Kallie wrote: "Karen wrote: "I'm glad alot of my students thank me."Mine thanked me too. I felt like crying sometimes because we couldn't pass them and they tried so hard."
:( It's hard!
The scientific basis of Montessori schooling seems non-existent. Better than the theosophic woo of Steiner but still based on one persons subjective guesses. Surely no influence by Rousseau, I hope? That would be criminal. Accoding to studies the results are no better than ordinary scools. You get famous alumni with all systems, even English public schools.
My students (University Freshmen in an Anthropology class) failed because they couldn't read well enough to study and absorb hat they read, or even comprehend exam questions. They had not mastered reading because 1) their parents didn't read or read to them; 2) the rural schools they infrequently attended was underfunded; 3) their are language and social problems here I won't go into. The problems are cultural and in that sense you are right about the system because their needs have never been met by a one-fits-all system. They had been passed on through high school rather than given extra time and attention that suited their particular needs and were not prepared for college.We did not teach them to regurgitate facts, by the way. Anthropology is about learning to practice, in thought, the concept of cultural relativity; that requires expanding your view to consider other cultures (here and worldwide) and eschewing reductive, overly simplistic thinking.
Kallie wrote: "My students (University Freshmen in an Anthropology class) failed because they couldn't read well enough to study and absorb hat they read, or even comprehend exam questions. They had not mastered..."This reading and comprehension problem I see all the time in middle school- I work in a school with great funding, it must be so much worse in poor school districts. And school is so much more than regurgitating facts.
Kallie wrote: "My students (University Freshmen in an Anthropology class) failed because they couldn't read well enough to study and absorb hat they read, or even comprehend exam questions. They had not mastered..."First, it's incomprehensible to me how anyone can get out of the third grade and manage to avoid learning to read! I know it happens, I've seen it, but that doesn't make it any less mind boggling to me.
I'm willing to bet that the causes are as many armed as the mutant offspring of the Kraken and Shiva.
Don't even get me started on the lack of developing an attention span, of wanting all our information and entertainment in thirty second bytes or less.
We did not teach them to regurgitate facts, by the way. Anthropology is about learning to practice, in thought, the concept of cultural relativity; that requires expanding your view to consider other cultures (here and worldwide) and eschewing reductive, overly simplistic thinking.
Your students are fortunate. Facts aren't the only regurgitants, too often what's wanted on the test is the teacher's opinion — or interpretation of "facts."
Kallie wrote: "They had not mastered reading because 1) their parents didn't read or read to them; 2) the rural schools they infrequently attended was underfunded; 3) their are language and social problems here I won't go into. The problems are cultural"The problems are "cultural," but by that word I'd like to stress they're not endemic to areas of rural or urban poverty. We've sighed and talked about the "dumbing down of America" (as Edward says) since the late '70s or "why Johnny can't read" since the '50s, but instead of addressing these problems as a society we've let things become worse because by and large ("culturally") American parents are ineffective and lazy and have decided to relinquish acquisition of reading skills to the schools instead of taking care of it themselves.
Just about any child can learn to read prior to entering kindergarten if a concerned and involved parent will take the time to do some parenting and read to his children on a regular basis. Instead, as a culture, we have chosen to addict our children to screens of various sizes and shapes, and we view reading as some exotic skill for our children to learn in school. And then as a nation we have the nerve to complain about schools and reading scores.
Clearly, as Kallie says, there are social problems contributing, but overall "reading" is something that at its most basic level parents need to address in early childhood because those 12 years of public schooling will never be able to compensate for what does not happen during those first five years.
Kallie wrote: "...their parents didn't read or read to them"I wonder if the effect of parents is overrated. I learned to read from comic books. Zero parental involvement, but I had an uncle who helped a little. Other than a couple of Golden Books about Little Red Riding Hood and some trolls under a bridge! I had no books around until I went to an orphanage at age 9.5. Then I devoured the library like a starved animal.
I always read to my kids, and grandchildren. But I think watching grownups read the newspaper was what drove me toward reading.
Petergiaquinta wrote: "Kallie wrote: "They had not mastered reading because 1) their parents didn't read or read to them; 2) the rural schools they infrequently attended was underfunded; 3) their are language and social ..."I have noticed that alot of parents have the attitude you describe- they want to leave everything up to the school. Not all, but alot. It's partly a lack of discipline. The ones who are very invested in their childrens education are infrequent and really stand out.
Monty J wrote: "But I think watching grownups read the newspaper was what drove me toward reading. "But as a child you saw "text" being read, and those newspapers and comic books and the Golden Books must have sparked something in you...despite the privation, what if you had grown up with no newspapers or comic books, with no adults modeling reading for you?
Elyse wrote: "I'd love to have Kallie as a teacher."Thanks Elyse. One problem in northern New Mexico is that family agricultural concerns barely provide a living yet require intensive labor. Kids have to have another option unless they want to live at home forever with the family resources (not much) going thinner with every generation. People aren't so materialistic here and some may do well with little education but they are exceptions.
I was lucky. My parents read and read to me so I knew early on what magic existed in a book -- which must look very unpromising if you don't, by a certain age, experience the confluence of text and imagination. But yes, Renee, there are kids who can't read by 3rd grade! My husband works with them. Some are dyslexic; some have family chaos; some just skated; nobody cared enough.
Kallie wrote: "They had been passed on through high school rather than given extra time and attention that suited their particular needs and were not prepared for college."It does appear to be a systemic problem. The right to an education has been confused with the right to a diploma, and many public schools have turned into little more than daycare. (From a teaching POV, it's what I have started to call "advanced babysitting.") I'm sure that's always been the case to a certain extent, but it does seem to be pretty much the standard in the last 3-4 decades. In order to "fail" in high school (or any number of the privately owned specialty "schools" that have sprung up) one really has to reject the whole process outright by dropping out rather than fail to learn or demonstrate that learning.
Most school systems can't afford failure. Their federal funding depends on a certain percentile of testing scores.
It's an ugly bit of blackmail and permeates our everyday lives. Even the number of arrests made. Did you know that some federal funding for law enforcement and local road work is dependent on the number of tickets given/arrests made for certain things? Like DUIs? Just one example that I know of, factually, from my work as a paralegal: when the feds proposed that the BAP (blood alcohol percentage) be dropped from 2.0 to 1.8 they also required a percentage of arrests to be made between those numbers.
Doesn't matter if it's a good cause or not. Extortion is extortion and leads to corruption to keep the numbers up, whether it's on the road or in the schoolroom.
Petergiaquinta wrote: "what if you had grown up with no newspapers or comic books, with no adults modeling reading for you?"I would have eventually caught on. I have always been a "slow reader," I think because of that early privation, but I also think the desire to know things is innate and hard, if not impossible, to teach.
I pity kids today. Newspapers are so expensive few people subscribe to them, certainly not the poor. Comic books aren't around anymore because they became too expensive.
Print has been replaced by silicon, and silicon is expensive. Children of the poor are S.O.L.
Many households have TVs in the living room, multiple bedrooms and the kitchen/dining areas, and at least one is running constantly.
Reading is on the shoulders of schoolteachers now, and a few dedicated, informed parents.
And that's my point: schools can't possibly make up for this lost ground. So complaining about schools seems like a waste of time to me. These problems cannot be addressed or corrected by schools, whether they are of the traditional model or Montessori or charter or whatever. The students with access or the wherewithal to attend these better schools would more often than not be the ones getting better parenting anyway.
Renee wrote: "Most school systems can't afford failure.Their federal funding depends on a certain percentile of testing scores.
It's an ugly bit of blackmail and permeates our everyday lives. Even the number of arrests made. Did you know that some federal funding for law enforcement and local road work is dependent on the number of tickets given/arrests made for certain things? Like DUIs?..."
Ugh. Horrifying. That is what happens when the equivalent of the sales or marketing manager gets into a position of authority.
There's an engineering term: Elapsed Time Between Failures. The idea is, basically, that you run your machine until it breaks, fix it, run it again, let it break, and so on until you get an idea of its reliability.
I have my own version of that concept for any particular job that I call: Elapsed Time Between Moral Failings. The idea being that in any job, sooner or later you'll be asked by the administration, management or owners to make a real serious ethical compromise. That moment serves as a kind of signpost for how long one is going to be able to do that job, because whether one gives in or not, your days are numbered. Either you're going to get drummed out through some sleazy bureaucratic maneuvering, or the "compromises" are going to start coming faster and faster until you can't hit the pillow at night without wondering how you're going to get up in the morning and face another day.
I've found teaching has a longer ETBMF than most jobs, but it's still there, particularly when dealing with privately held "schools" which are more likely to bag standards when there's a profit to be made.
Renee wrote: "Most school systems can't afford failure. Their federal funding depends on a certain percentile of testing scores.
It's an ugly bit of blackmail and permeates our everyday lives. Even the numbe..."
You make me think this Kafkaesque world one big racket. I am positive that what you are saying is correct. All you would have to do to see what a mousetrap you live in is study law...a little. Read Blacks Law Dictionary and see how all the words are the same but have different meanings...so you don't know what you are agreeing to when you get to court.
Oh Brave New World.
You have to be brave to venture out in this made.
Petergiaquinta wrote: "And that's my point: schools can't possibly make up for this lost ground. So complaining about schools seems like a waste of time to me. These problems cannot be addressed or corrected by schools, ..."Ok so get rid of them in our imaginary world on Goodreads. How would you replace them?
I like that Gary, very apt. ETBMF. Been there.And you can sub in different words for the last two letters and it works equally accurately. :D
Petergiaquinta wrote: "And that's my point: schools can't possibly make up for this lost ground. So complaining about schools seems like a waste of time to me. whether they are of the traditional model or Montessori or charter or whatever. The students with access or the wherewithal to attend these better schools would more often than not be the ones getting better parenting anyway."Exactly, and the economic divide just keeps growing.
I have an idea. Raise a pot of money and hire some programmers to write virtual reality video games showing happy family adults reading newspapers and reading books to them and playing with them instead of beating them.
Load up semi-truck trailer rigs with rooms of these VR game machines and blanket the country, concentrating just on poor neighborhoods. Lure the kids inside anyway you can and if a parent complains, shoot them with hypos if you have to and submit them to the same programming. Literally, programming.
Everyone walks out with a chip implant and a backpack loaded with books that can't be opened or read except by the person programmed for them. Every time a book is finished, food stamps and a toy arrive in the mail within five business days. The backpacks come equipped with LoJack recovery systems, and every time a thief is caught he or she is programmed the same way.
If we get taken to court, we kidnap the judge and the prosecuting attorney and program them too.
I don't know how else to solve the problem.
You know, Monty, you've got a great story premise started there . . .
Renee wrote: "You know, Monty, you've got a great story premise started there . . ."(I just had the same thought. Don't jinx me.)
Petergiaquinta wrote: "And that's my point: schools can't possibly make up for this lost ground. So complaining about schools seems like a waste of time to me. These problems cannot be addressed or corrected by schools, ..."Exactly. And I do take it a bit personally when people complain about schools and teachers, yes there are bad teachers, most are not. Most work hard. The hard working ones do not work a 6 hour day, they work more than that. Schools cannot solve our cultural and parental problems.
Renee wrote: "You know, Monty, you've got a great story premise started there . . ."Yes!! Another short story or book, hey what about that book Monty? I want to read it.
Cosmic wrote: "Ok so get rid of them in our imaginary world on Goodreads. How would you replace them?"I wouldn't replace them at all. Instead, I would work for social and economic equity and justice in our rural and urban areas of poverty. I would put money into job programs and addiction rehabilitation. And I would increase pre-kindergarten education programs like HeadStart.
That's what I would do for starters in this imaginary kingdom of mine.
And then I'd tell parents of students from middle-class and better backgrounds to shut the hell up if they're dissatisfied with their children's progress in school and yet have allowed them to be online all day long their entire lives, let them run around all evening instead of being at home, let them go to bed at whatever hour they like, and failed to encourage in them good study habits and a positive work ethic.
Petergiaquinta wrote: "Cosmic wrote: "Ok so get rid of them in our imaginary world on Goodreads. How would you replace them?"I wouldn't replace them at all. Instead, I would work for social and economic equity and just..."
Bravo!
Petergiaquinta wrote: "And then I'd tell parents of students from middle-class and better backgrounds to shut the hell up if they're dissatisfied with their children's progress in school and yet have let them be online all day long their entire lives, allowed them to run around all evening instead of being at home, let them go to bed at whatever hour they like, and failed to encourage in them good study habits and a positive work ethic. "Not to mention letting them get stoned and blitzed on television.
Petergiaquinta wrote: "I wouldn't replace them at all. Instead, I would work for social and economic equity and just..." Yes, inequity causes a lot of the family dysfunction that affect kids' attendance and performance. And we keep coming back to the importance of parental involvement. As Karen said, teachers already work long hours. Schools should employ people, maybe social workers, who familiarize themselves with students' problems and pressure parents to work with their kids.
Kallie wrote: "And we keep coming back to the importance of parental involvement."I know this is true. Intuitively, logically, it makes all the sense in the world. However, there is a reality that we must all face--that there are a lot of inadequate, screwed up, absent, overworked, and basically tuned out people who have produced children in this world, a malady that bleeds across the entire socio-economic stratum.
Maybe this is the predominant case and the ideal case is relatively rare.
First accept this reality, then look for solutions.
The question, and within lies the solution, is what to do about inadequate or in absentia parenting. I know a guy who was abandoned at 14 and graduated valedictorian from high school, homeless, sleeping at friends houses. Got a full scholarship to UC Berkeley.
An exceptional guy, yes, but he illustrates my point--that we need to find and deliver tools directly to the people who need them, the kids themselves.
Every school library should have a reading program for these kids. Staff it with volunteers from churches, synagogues, mosques. Religious people like to volunteer.
Another example. Before the orphanage I practically lived at the Panther Boys Club, part of the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. There were free handicrafts. Free educational movies. I got a coupon for a free soda for going three one-minute rounds in the boxing ring (a confidence building program of some sort.)
Focus on the kids. The "parents" are a lost cause, like pushing a rope.
Kallie wrote: "Petergiaquinta wrote: "I wouldn't replace them at all. Instead, I would work for social and economic equity and just..." Yes, inequity causes a lot of the family dysfunction that affect kids' at..."
Our school SW and administration try, but they are so afraid of lawsuits they can't pressure parents the way they need to.
Monty J wrote: "Kallie wrote: "And we keep coming back to the importance of parental involvement."I know this is true. Intuitively, logically, it makes all the sense in the world. However, there is a reality tha..."
In Massachusetts, the only people who can legally teach reading are certified reading teachers. Lots of legislation in this state!
I would like to suggest this book:Child's Work: Taking Children's Choices Seriously
To much is put on children to "work" at something that is "good for them, in the future."
The complaint was that children didn't want to "perform" the task.
But I was reminded of this book while reading Goethe (Stefan Aug. Doinas trad.)Wilhelm Meister’s Apprenticeship.
Here is chapter 2http://www.bartleby.com/314/102.html
His father is disappointed that his son has taken to like the theater as he doesn't think it is a waste of time.
The man talking to his mother reminds her of the puppet theater that she bought him one Christmas. It is very endearing. He asks where they are and fetches them.
"Do not repent of it,” said Wilhelm; “this little sport has often made us happy.” So saying, he got the keys; made haste to find the puppets; and, for a moment, was transported back into those times when they almost seemed to him alive, when he felt as if he himself could give them life by the cunning of his voice and the movements of his hands. He took them to his room, and locked them up with care."
"IF the first love is indeed, as I hear it everywhere maintained to be, the most delicious feeling which the heart of man, before it or after, can experience,—then our hero must be reckoned doubly happy, as permitted to enjoy the pleasure of this chosen period in all its fulness. Few men are so peculiarly favoured; by far the greater part are led by the feelings of their youth into nothing but a school of hardship, where, after a stinted and checkered season of enjoyment, they are at length constrained to renounce their dearest wishes, and to learn forever to dispense with what once hovered before them as the highest happiness of existence."
A child has spent approximately 10,000 hours in some school and if he is not a good student (meaning that school work comes easy for him/her) then these hours are not looked upon as fond memories. I was one of those students and I hated school. I hated reading too. I did hate reading not because I hated stories but because it was very very hard to do and get any meaning out of it. My brain just didn't work that way till I got older. Reading made me want to fall asleep. It was very taxing to focus and concentrate. I didn't understand what this felt like again till I started teaching my children to read and they were having the same problems I had. Then they would tell me how to install Windows or something I didn't have my mind on and I could feel the fog descend over my brain and I thought this us what happens as soon as I mention the word reading. He knows it's going to be painful. That it won't be fun and he is already shutting down before we get started.
It was a struggle, but I didn't waste 10,000 hours beating the same horse. If reading had been required to do his child's work he might have read sooner. When I went to Growing Without Schooling's Headquarters in Boston I asked them about this issue of not reading. They asked me if my child had any hobbies. I told them he had a lot of hobbies just no interest in reading. He said he will read when what he needs to know cannot be gotten any other way. My son was such a genius at not wanting to read that he wanted to design a speech program that would say the word for him. We had one of those talking computers that you type in the word and it played word games as well. (This was before speak and spell...the computer that is.) So he found out all the different sounds that were made in the English language. He worked hard not to read but he eventually did read. He also developed the program and made it tell time in Gary's Mod.
I guess to me it is better if a child is emotionally engaged in what they are doing than for things to be forced on them. I mean why does a first grader have to read if they would just like to make up their own stories or toys or do whatever experience benefits them and not necessarily the system?
Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated? Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."
Agree with these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
Atlas Shrugged
Da Vinci Code
Twilight
Disagree:
The Great Gatsby
The Stranger
The last two are one of my favorites.
Edward wrote: "The kids would then be required to spend more time with their books and less time playing or watching TV. I think it had some success. It seems a simple requirement for an otherwise occupied parent, but I also recognize that in reality some parents show little support for book learning."In the orphanage where I grew up there was a steadfast rule: "No TV on school nights after dinner." (Dinner was at 5. We played outside from 6 'til 7.)
I tried to enforce this same rule at my house and my X-wife routinely violated it, especially when Melrose Place and Dallas were showing. She even put TVs in the kids' rooms. There are parents and there are parents. And the teachers get the blame.
Petergiaquinta wrote: "And that's my point: schools can't possibly make up for this lost ground. So complaining about schools seems like a waste of time to me. These problems cannot be addressed or corrected by schools, whether they are of the traditional model or Montessori or charter or whatever. The students with access or the wherewithal to attend these better schools would more often than not be the ones getting better parenting anyway. ..."I am pretty much thinking about a fairytale. I forgot that these children that go to. Students have been raised in groups. It is really hard for a child to have the kind of self confidence to do or be something different. This is something that I forgot when writing my post. I hate to call it here herd mentality. But children are so influenced by each other and their environment. As a homeschool mother I had a lot of control over my children. Like comparing apples and green beans.
Cosmic wrote: "...why does a first grader have to read if they would just like to make up their own stories or toys or do whatever experience benefits them and not necessarily the system?"I suspect because there are neural pathways that open up developmentally at a certain age and if that avenue is missed before it closes, a permanent deficiency is created. Same with math. I say this because of my own experience mentioned above. I have always been a slow reader, and I had zero parental involvement. No kindergarten, no preschool. Just comic books and a couple of battered Golden Books and an uncle that taught me letters and numbers right before first grade. I never learned to trill my "r's" either.
If a bird doesn't learn its song by a certain age it never will. I suspect something similar is true with humans.
Monty J wrote: "If a bird doesn't learn its song by a certain age it never will. I suspect something similar is true with humans. ..."
This is what they tell you in school. But I talked with a specialist in autism and she had a brother that didn't read very well. She used to do all his homework, which wasn't a problem for her. He graduated and went into the military and then went to college to become an engineer. He learned how to read while he was in the service.
My son learned how to read when he was 14. He says he reads really good now at 25. He passes his Technician, General and Extra Class ham radio test. He has a job that requires him to do reading and writing daily.
I personally didn't feel I broke the code to reading till I was 21. I could read but it was painful. My mother would take me to see a movie like Charlotte's Web and ask me if I would like to read the book. I told her it would be a waste of time. It only took two hours to watch and it would take me a week to read it.
Stroke patients have to relearn things and it is amazing what the brain can do even after damaged.
I think being graded and made to feel dumb because of a reading problem create a negative connotation for the child that he would like to avoid.
Monty J wrote: "If a bird doesn't learn its song by a certain age it never will. I suspect something similar is true with humans. ..."
Do birds learn songs or is it instinct? I thought it was the latter.
Cosmic wrote; "I am pretty much thinking about a fairytale." So am I !!
The Catcher in the Rye: I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what was so amazing about this story. Perhaps it was one of those uniquely time-specific novels. I was bored throughout.
Well John, we're to message 2428 today...somewhere back there I hope you'll find the answer to your question.
Scroll up.
John wrote: "The Catcher in the Rye: I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what was so amazing about this story. Perhaps it was one of those uniquely time-specific novels. I was bored throughout."Seems to depend on whether you could relate to Holden. Many at least sympathized.
I watched the documentary on his life - it seems he was as surprised by all the fuss about his book as I was.
In this conversation about education, you are leaving out homeschooling. Parents of all sorts are taking their kids out of school and even if the parent has no educational training, the children are doing much better than their counterparts in public school. I have been homeschooling my grandchildren for about 8 years along with my daughter. I do language arts, Bible, art, music, home ec. and some others, she does the rest. The decision was made because my grandson was really struggling with math and my granddaughter taught herself to read when she was 3. (By the time we knew she was reading just before her 4th birthday, she was reading above a 6th grade level.) Something had to be done and it was the parent's responsibility to make sure it was done.
It's been interesting to read what various people have been saying about what should be taught and how. I have been a teacher, so I had some ideas about what was taught at which point, but it is not as easy to design a program as you would think.
In this modern world, child have to be tested. There is no way to get around it even if you wanted to. There are some other ways to see if a child has mastered a subject but even one on one, you still need to measure progress.
At a certain developmental state, children learn by rote easily. The early grades are a perfect time for kids to learn math facts, spelling, punctuation, parts of speech etc. They memorize poems, songs, jingles etc. and actually like it. There are a lot of elements of education that have to be memorized, and this is the time even if it is boring.
When you look at all the great children's literature it is hard to select the right books...books that will advance skills and teach children important ideas. That means a lot of thought about what children need to know and it goes far beyond subject matter. Basically, it mean teaching children how to think.
The fun thing about homeschooling is that you can teach anything to kids by choosing from the things they are interested in. Public schools have to find literature that fits most of the kids. Even if you know you will never homeschool kids, it is fun to explore what is important in a curriculum.
Fortunately, in this country, we have the right to decide what to teach our children and parents are not powerless when it comes to their children's education.
John wrote: "The Catcher in the Rye: I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what was so amazing about this story. Perhaps it was one of those uniquely time-specific novels. I was bored throughout."Hi John,
You said you would like to understand the hype around the Catcher. If you based your experience on Cliff notes I can understand not getting it. They wanted you to see it as a person that is mentally ill, leaving out parts that would make you understand that it was really about WW2. If you have read Ulysses by Joyce you know that you have to interpret that book intertextually. So it is with the Catcher. HOLDEN CAULFIELD - a caul is defined on the first page of the book David Copperfield. So the name is composed of two words that are related to that book. Just to get you started. Horses are a big motif. They have them on the ad for Pencey Prep but there are no horses on campus. What there are are a lot of crooks. In fact the wealthier the school the more crooks it has. Which is really talking about how school is a place to network rather than just a place for learning. That what matters is being able to hurdle fences. Not all horses are the same however. The one Phoebe gets on at the end off the book seems to dance in circles to the tune "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes". She gets on the carousel when Holden give her her own money. The carousel represents a stock market or a roulette wheel or something to do with chance; because Phoebe tries to reach for the gold ring, just like all the kids do. HOLDEN says you are not allowed to tell them they might fall. So it is with our markets and our wars. It was when the average person was invested in the stock market that they fail and fortunes with it. But what about the DUCKS? Glad you asked. The ducks that Holden is worried about are the ones that live in Central Park South. If you look at a map you will see that one of the parks is named after the army. Ducks were also known as http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW
HOLDEN first thinks about the DUCKS while "shooting the http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargi..." with Mr Spencer (The name of the name that coined the phrase the survival of the fittest) whom Holden has been talking about how life is a game. HOLDEN knows it is a game only if you are on the winning side and that not all sides are given equal advantage. HOLDEN's roommates probably represent the state and the church. But one of the important books/movies was The Thirty Nine Steps.The Thirty-Nine Steps. Greenmantle there are names in the story that reflected back to this book and if you haven't read it you will not understand how he could get that "Good Bye" feeling that he was looking for when he is on top of the hill. There are a lot more intertextual things going on in this book. It took him 10 years to write the book. If you come to a title of a book you will have to read it. If you see the name of a movie star or singer look at the first movie/career. All these things tell a different story of WW2, according to Salinger. This is my take on the book. If you want to pass the standardized test you might want the cliff note version. Obviously Holden knows where Ducks go in the winter he tell you in chapter 6 when he takes you through the Natural History Museum. But he says they go faster if you will look at the migrating bird "upside down"....so then they would look they were flying North (Germany/Saxon) rather than south.
I started a group BREAKING THE CODE to the Catcher in The Rye on Goodreads. Check it out.
Anne Hawn wrote: "Even if you know you will never homeschool kids, it is fun to explore what is important in a curriculum. Fortunately, in this country, we have the right to decide what to teach our children and parents are not powerless when it comes to their children's education. ..."
May this always remain true in the Red White And Blue.
Cosmic wrote: "Stroke patients have to relearn things and it is amazing what the brain can do even after damaged."There's reading and there's reading. There are are levels. What I am suggesting is that delayed learning can impair or limit reading skills, making it more of a struggle, less enjoyable. I heard/read this somewhere and it rang true with my own experience.
Cosmic wrote: "Do birds learn songs or is it instinct? I thought it was the latter."Must be learned. Saw a documentary on this.
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Richard Dawkins (other topics)
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Find out what the prescribed answer is, keep it in memory long enough to regurgitate it on a test, whether it's the answer the textbook wants or the one that suits the teacher or professor. Don't think too hard, just give 'em the answer they want on the test.