The Most Overrated Books Showing 1,601-1,650 of 5,680

[Kallie]

Karen wrote: "When I wore those pants, as mentioned above, I commanded respect and got it.
Enough said."

Good for you. I don't remember having to do that. Most people I knew then (in the SF Bay Area) dressed as they pleased and didn't worry about being judged on that basis.

[Monty J]

Kallie wrote: "...what way of dressing is sexy yet conservative or modest, and commands respect? Maybe you could give examples. "

This will vary by industry, with show business and advertising at one end of the scale and church at the other extreme.

In advertising, a woman executive can wear a tailored, snug-fitting suit and reveal a little cleavage. She can even wink and tease on occasion, depending on the organization. The men won't complain, but some of the female staff might.

Women in ad sales are expected to use their sexuality and titillate the client to make a sale. (This is true in a lot of sales organizations in most industries.)
Women in Accounting or Human Resources will get called on the carpet for similar behavior.

Company parties, after-hours, can be pretty racy.

In high tech, it's a good deal more conservative than in Advertising or Show business, but this too depends on the company. Behavior codes among high tech start-ups can be all over the map. In one company I worked for, an Admin Assistant in one department was outwardly dating the VP of Sales, who was married. She flaunted that relationship throughout the organization and exerted an amazing amount of power throughout the company. Red nails and lipstick, bouffant hair and tight skirts where her stock and trade. The CEO got a kick out of it. He even encouraged fraternal relationships among employees who were married. It was an "anything goes" environment, until they went public.

Some industries can be as uptight as a church. But generally, if a woman wants to get ahead in the business world and be taken seriously, she will err on the side of modesty and carefully observe the successful women in her organization and take her cues from them. When in doubt, consult the HR manager, who almost invariably will be a woman.

One of the most daring and innovative examples I've seen of female sexual aggressiveness happened in church. The woman wore a black blouse with a diamond-shaped lace vent over her cleavage that was hidden by a long white scarf she had looped around her neck. With a tug on the ends of the scarf it would lift just enough to reveal that little lace vent. A tug on the loop would hide it. We sat next to each other. She kept adjusting her scarf. When we rose to go up for communion, the vent would disappear. When we returned, voila, it reappeared. And so on. I nearly went nuts watching for that loop to rise. She had to have known she had my attention because she could tug and my head would involuntarily turn. I was her puppet.

Damn crafty, some women.

[Kallie]

Monty J wrote: "Kallie wrote: "...what way of dressing is sexy yet conservative or modest, and commands respect? Maybe you could give examples. "

This will vary by industry, with show business and advertising at ..."

Interesting! Thanks for elaborating, Monty. You are a keen observer. Someone could write an interesting cultural anthropology take on how people dress these days, and why.

[Karen]

Kallie wrote: "Karen wrote: "When I wore those pants, as mentioned above, I commanded respect and got it.
Enough said."

Good for you. I don't remember having to do that. Most people I knew then (in the SF Bay..."

I didn't have to do much of anything, really. :)

[Massimo]

Here's my personal top 5, from the top of my head:
- The Da Vinci code (Come on, read Foucault's Pendulum... it was there 15 years before and it is better...)
- Elective Affinities (the only book I ever chose not to finish...)
- Drood (a summary of the worst characteristics of literature of the period the story is about)
- Eragon (too cliche)
- The Unbearable Lightness of Being (it took me a huge effort to get to the end of it, and it was painful)

[Karen]

The Unbearable Lightness of Being will be ny next read, I have heard great things about it, but it may not be your cup of tea for some reason.

[Geoffrey]

Interesting stories, Monty. When I get hit on, it´s not so much the dress code that stimulates my interest but the enterprising pat on my "tukus" or the woman who blatantly stares straight in my eyes and keeps her gaze.

With students, it´s particularly disconcerting cuz if caught, there goes your career. In the corporate world, you get caught and they either snigger or you go on to other employment. Yes, drat those younguns. They´re so delectable, but eye Candy only.

[S.W.]

HELP!! I've discovered a 31 yo "book virgin" and I'm trying to find the perfect book to deflower him. He's a bilingual boxer of Panamanian descent who grew up in Toronto & Panama. He's now a medical assistant in Florida and father of two boys (6 & 8). I thought "book virgins" were a myth but he's never read any book cover-to-cover. Help me rectify this unfortunate situation and pop his literary cherry. Any ideas? We can't allow this atrocity to persist! He doesn't want a "fat" book (even though they have more personality) and would prefer English to Spanish.

[[deleted user]]

Let him try Drown by Junot Diaz - it is in English, has Spanish in it and it is brilliant and short Drown
Lucie

[Kallie]

S.W. wrote: "HELP!! I've discovered a 31 yo "book virgin" and I'm trying to find the perfect book to deflower him. He's a bilingual boxer of Panamanian descent who grew up in Toronto & Panama. He's now a med..."

But why not a translation of something from Spanish culture? If it doesn't have to be a novel, Cortazar short stories are simple language-wise (at least, that is how I remember them) but meaty and fantastic.

[S.W.]

Excellent suggestions. Fat City was another contender. I considered Joyce Carol Oates's On Boxing but she got too intellectual for a newbie (eg Sui generis). Yeah! I get too order more books from AMAZON.

[Geoffrey]

Axoxtl or Blow Up, two of the best short stories ever.

[Daniel]

Kallie wrote: "Cortazar short stories are simple language-wise"

Not so much, really, at least not all of them. I have no clue of how they read translated into English, but they can get quite wordy in Spanish, not to mention when he flat out starts making words up (like "mancuspia" or "cronopio").

[Geoffrey]

I had no problem with the English translations.I believe it was either a MacMillan or Collier copy of BLOW UP AND OTHER STORIES, but I could be mistaken about the Publisher. Definitely that title though.

[Anne Hawn]

Elyse wrote: "Oh yes, I completely agree with and about the color purple. The book was fabulous. When the movie came out my first child is a tiny infant. I remember it was the first movie I went to after she was..."

I was amazed that it didn't receive a lot of awards also. I can't remember which movie got all those awards though. I think it was another powerhouse film though.

There have been a lot of excellent movies that happened to. I am pretty sure it was "The Wizard of Oz" that came out the same year as "Gone With the Wind."

[Brian]

Interesting thread.
I think part if the reason that Catcher in the Rye, Moby Dick and The Great Gatsby make the list is that most of us read them at a young age and have various older folks telling us how great they are? I returned to all three of these classics later in my life and LOVED all three when I was free from the forced nature of High school English. I've re-read many books that I first read in high school with similar experiences.
It is strange to see some of the more pop novel stuff here on the same list but I rather enjoyed most of these.

[[deleted user]]

I agree, and for you, it was a " school read". I read all three in Czech translations also at an early age, in a communist country where American literature was not exactly encouraged, and I liked them all, same as my favourite Hemingway.Was it just to spite the official line? Who knows,

[Jerry]

I would agree with many, but I have to defend The Stranger. I borrowed the book from a friend and didn't even know it was a "classic." I didn't know who Camus was or that he was a famous author, so you could say my bias was down. I thought the book was pretty dry and felt like nothing for a long time but there was something about it that made me feel like there was more to it and I kept wanting to read. I'll just say that the last part of the book, the scene in the prison cell, is one of the most powerful I have ever read. I'd recommend slogging through what many would consider dull musings about drinking and eating and visiting a beach house simply because the payoff at the end is well worth it.

[Karen]

Brian wrote: "Interesting thread.
I think part if the reason that Catcher in the Rye, Moby Dick and The Great Gatsby make the list is that most of us read them at a young age and have various older folks tellin..."

Good for you for reading them again! Often in HS students are not ready for these books- and taking a test on them would turn me off- I read for pleasure, at my own pace.

[Olivia]

I did like Catcher in the Rye and Gatsby. They do get a lot of hype though, so I can see why you're saying they're overrated.

I personally think that Divergent and other books like it that have come out since Hunger Games (i.e. "dystopian" y.a. novels) are a bit overrated... there are a million of them out there, just like there are a million Twilight-wannabees out there from that era.

[Geoffrey]

Jerry wrote: "I would agree with many, but I have to defend The Stranger. I borrowed the book from a friend and didn't even know it was a "classic." I didn't know who Camus was or that he was a famous author, so..."

Despite whether I enjoyed the novel or liked the characters, for me, a book was significant in that I continued to think about it after I finished its last Word. Stories like Angels and Demons are good for the read, we enjoy the excitement of the Vatican hoodlums chasing around the globe the truthsayers, but after the last page is turned, we aren´t left with anything that carries weight. It´s just a racy tale with a bit of loving, sex and violence in various degrees of titallation and vicarious living, but there are no earth-shattering philosophic question or life´s lessons to learn. The pablum for the masses is so much literary Doritos, great to the taste, but hardly for a full diet. They leave one with a cringing feeling as having gorged on that whole Bavarian chocolate cake and not eating a good plate of vegetables.

So yes, they are classics. MOBY DICK raises serious question on free will and destiny, man against nature and survival of the fittest. And each classic, if of serious import, deals with more than one philosophic truth.

But give me a break,as for A & D, she´s the only descendant of JC? you´ve got to be kidding. Anyone who knows basic genetics knows what a crock the basic premise of the story is.

[Kallie]

Geoffrey wrote: "Despite whether I enjoyed the novel or liked the characters, for me, a book was significant in that I continued to think about it after I finished its last Word. "

I think this is an important point. Thanks, Geoffrey.

[Cosmic]

Jerry wrote: "I would agree with many, but I have to defend The Stranger. I borrowed the book from a friend and didn't even know it was a "classic." I didn't know who Camus was or that he was a famous author, so..."

I am hoping the same is true about Ulysses by James Joyce. I did find a few nuggets.

But the one that I want to bring up is in chapter 8 where Bloom tells a lady that he had been to a funeral that morning.

He sings or rhyme

"Your funeral's tomorrow
While you're coming through the rye
Diddlediddle dumdum
Diddlediddle"

Since I am actually looking for connections between the Catcher in the Rye it is not surprising that this would hit a high note in my search. Since Salinger himself, as did James Joyce, used literature as well as media to reference and give meaning to their novels, I think this is significant. Maybe "going through the rye" had a more common reference then than it does today, or maybe it has one for Europe that escapes my American up bringing, but I found it interesting.

Does anyone know of other works of fiction that uses "rye" as a reference and what do you think the common reference is meant by this?

[Cosmic]

Geoffrey wrote: "So yes, they are classics. MOBY DICK raises serious question on free will and destiny, man against nature and survival of the fittest. And each classic, if of serious import, deals with more than one philosophic truth. .."

I was reading Write Like the Masters: Emulating the Best of Hemingway, Faulkner, Salinger, and Others and he brought up a point of view that I had not considered when reading Moby-Dick.

"That Ahab symbolizes the failed attempt at self-integration, the neurotic over emphasis on hatred that ruins everyone else's life. Because of Ahab, all the sailors except the narrator, perish."

There was another view of Ahab being a symbol of the Devil.

I think that one can derive many meanings for one's own reflection make a book a classic. That is why we think about them later and we gain insight into other works by reading previous works. They create a web. This web like structure to me, create a sense of security or truth that guides my own decisions, consciously or unconsciously. It makes me loosen my hold somewhat on rigidly held views and replace them or at least compare them to other views in different contexts.

But I agree with you that they must live beyond the last WORD of the novel.

[Monty J]

Cosmic wrote: "Does anyone know of other works of fiction that uses "rye" as a reference and what do you think the common reference is meant by this?"

No, but a deeper understanding of the poem is possible, as it became a well-known children's song with strong sexual implications. This explained in some detail at Wikipedia:

While the original poem is already full of sexual imagery, an alternative version makes this more explicit. It has a different chorus, referring to a phallic 'staun o' staunin' graith', 'kiss' is replaced by 'fuck', and Jenny's 'thing' in stanza four is identified as her 'cunt'.[2][3][4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comin...


Here's the full "Alternate Version" from BBC:

O gin a body meet a body,
Comin' throu the rye:
Gin a body fuck a body,
Need a body cry.

Comin' thro' the rye, my jo,
An' coming' thro' the rye;
She fand a staun o' staunin' graith,
Comin' thro' the rye.

Gin a body meet a body,
Comin' thro' the glen;
Gin a body fuck a body,
Need the warld ken.

Gin a body meet a body,
Comin' thro the grain;
Gin a body fuck a body,
Cunt's a body's ain.

Gin a body meet a body,
By a body's sel,
What na body fucks a body,
Wad a body tell.

Mony a body meets a body,
They dare na weel avow;
Mony a body fucks a body,
Ye wadna think its true."

So it appears that Burns' poem was made into a dirty children's ditty. In today's highly sexualized society, a-la 50 Shades of Grey, this little tune may return to popularity.

[Amy]

YES they are overrated.
I would add anything by John Green and Tuesdays With Morrie to the list.

[[deleted user]]

LOL Yes, I remember everybody raving about it but I found it a bit boring, too!

[Mark]

But, again, at the risk of flogging Le cheval mort, does the fact that a book bored you mean it is in someway overrated?

Or does that only mean you were bored by it? Something about the word "overrated" suggests, to me anyway, thinking beyond the sphere of your own tastes and preferences.

[[deleted user]]

Well, of course, overrated is subjective. It means " overrated by others"
This is shy like what my grandmother told me about food:
" You do not say this is disgusting, you say I do not like the taste of this"
ANd taste changes- I hated olives as a 16 year old, now I like them! Books can be like that,too.
Lucie

[[deleted user]]

it was why not shy- I type too fast ( and I am a foreigner lol)

[Mark]

Christiane wrote: "You are absolutely right, Mark. That the book bored me is no evidence that it is overrated.

I'd be very interested to hear why you would consider it a classic"

Interesting ... I didn't say I considered it a classic. I've not yet read it nor was I defending it as a classic. I was pointing out that any given individuals' boredom with or dislike of a book doesn't to my mind equate with "overrated."

That's all.

[Monty J]

Mark wrote: "I didn't say I considered it a classic. I've not yet read it nor was I defending it as a classic. I was pointing out that any given individuals' boredom with or dislike of a book doesn't to my mind equate with "overrated."

Thank you, Mark. You wrote my thoughts.

A lot of people seem to blame their boredom on the author or the book's reputation, when such is rarely the case.

I get bored by most popular fiction (Dean Koontz, John Grisham, JK Rowling, Elizabeth Gilbert) but it's not because they are overrated. It's simply a matter of taste.

I can't imagine someone saying Ulysses is overrated, but they do.

But the troll-like calculated judgmental rudeness implicit in this thread's title invites short-sighted responses.

[Karen]

This whole thread annoys me terribly. People list the books they don't like, or they had to read for school and therefore were tested on it, or they don't like the subject matter. What really irks me is when people say "don't ever read this book". Part of the problem may be that it is hard to define a classic.

[Rachel]

Why is there debate over whether or not a book is overrated/underrated? It's just an expression of a strong sentiment felt by the author. Now, if you were to say the idea of a book is overrated (rather than the book itself), that would make more sense. You could also take into consideration how well it's written, but that's all a matter of opinion. I think The Catcher in the Rye has some real life lessons to offer and some real ideas to ponder, even if the writing style isn't your favorite or the author didn't incorporate things you would've.

[Karen]

Oh I think it's fine that it's run so long, I have had fun on it. I would like it if people took the time to state the REASONS they think a book is over-rated in a thoughtful way. I was particularly annoyed today. I work with 13 year old hormonal kids.

[[deleted user]]

Hormonal 13 y old kids are annoying but can also be great fun. I treat them as a doctor. They can be clever, unusual and have fresh thinking.

[Kallie]

Karen wrote: "Oh I think it's fine that it's run so long, I have had fun on it. I would like it if people took the time to state the REASONS they think a book is over-rated in a thoughtful way. I was particularl..."

Same here. Opinions are easy, and not so interesting and engaging as thoughts.

[Karen]

Lucie wrote: "Hormonal 13 y old kids are annoying but can also be great fun. I treat them as a doctor. They can be clever, unusual and have fresh thinking."

Oooh! Yes they can be fun! The most unusual ones are my favorites- and they can be quite funny.

[[deleted user]]

Yes. ANd they remind me of when I was that age. ALl legs and arms, glasses, reading books I only partly understood. I was a snobby intellectual when I was 13, but I think I was sometimes fun,too.

[Mark]

I think part of the problem is with the concept of "rating."

In essence, "rating" connotes some sort of metrical hierarchy. Is there ever a reality in which we can say in a definitive quantitative way that this book rates several (or maybe only one) notch higher than that book? We all know books (or works of art or people or on and on and on) just don't work that way.

Now you can say that this, for example, ham weighs four pounds and that other ham weighs six. This means the latter ham would rate higher at least as far as weight goes. But even that's rather limiting. If the four pound ham was an expertly cured Westphalian and Fido had chewed at the six pound ham in his pen for the last ten minutes, we all know which we'd rather eat.

I have a friend who graduated top of his class at the Culinary Institute of America (the Hyde Park, NYC campus). He considers IHOP to be a good restaurant. Why? Because they don't promise to be something that they are not. They consistently deliver on what they aim to be and, at least for their more familiar patrons, on what people expect from them.

So I think what the original question might be trying to chase down is, in a word, this: pretension.

Just this week I've completed The Goldfinch because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. That, I'd submit, was a completely pretentious book. It's reviewed in several places as if it's the 21st century version of a Dickens' novel. I've not read much Dickens, but I think the book is more flawed and less imaginative and less well written than what's celebrated as admirable about Charles Dickens' work.

So there is a sense of the emperor's new clothes when it comes to The Goldfinch, I think.

Plenty of beautiful people have labeled it truly great literature. Committees have nominated the novel for various literary awards, which it won culminating with the Pulitzer for Fiction . . . and so on.

So the book developed this critical mass, momentum ... maybe even intertia. If a person says they think it is poorly written they risk a widespread perception that they are unthinking dunderheads who do not understand great artistry. I mean, all these people who say it's marvelous can't be wrong, can they?

That's not the same as someone saying, "I didn't like this," or "this bored me," and then using that as valid criticism.

I will once again use the example of operatic music. I don't get it. I don't like it. It literally repulses me as a listener. But that doesn't mean I'm so stupid and self centered as to think of this as validation that the world's great operas are overrated nonsense and not inspiring and artful music. It's not my cup of tea and I've not been schooled in how to appreciate it.

[Gary]

Well, this isn't a happy dynamic, but it is more often than not what is really going on when people say a particular classic book is "over-rated" or "boring" or words to that effect:

We live in a deeply narcissistic age. If a "classic" book bores a reader then it must be the book's fault. After all, being bored by a book might indicate some sort of fault on the reader's part... and that can't be the case, right? After all, I'm OK, you're whatever.

So, rather than face the possibility that any particular individual might be reading past their intellectual capacity, the problem has to be that books are not as good as that reader has been led to believe. Otherwise, people would have to face all kinds of ramifications about their own education, intelligence, imagination and comprehension level. Some books must be "over-rated" because the alternative is that some readers are under-developed, and we can't have that out there in the world....

[Susannah]

The Goldfinch.

[Kallie]

Gary wrote: "Well, this isn't a happy dynamic, but it is more often than not what is really going on when people say a particular classic book is "over-rated" or "boring" or words to that effect:

We live in a deeply narcissistic age ..."

You may be onto something here: "This book does not reflect my point of view; therefore, it is overrated."

[Meranda]

I liked The Catcher in the Rye :P I thought it was a pretty cool read.. until people start looking at every little thing and saying it means more then it do's that annoys me.. but its a good book to read :P

[Gary]

Kallie wrote: "You may be onto something here: "This book does not reflect my point of view; therefore, it is overrated."

Yeah, and everybody who has admired it for decades or centuries is wrong because... me! ME!

[Karen]

Mark wrote: "I think part of the problem is with the concept of "rating."

In essence, "rating" connotes some sort of metrical hierarchy. Is there ever a reality in which we can say in a definitive quantitativ..."

I hate opera too, but you're right- that is entirely different than saying it's just not my taste and I can't connect with it. I just bought a beautiful jazz CD, but I would never say that the one I bought is so much better than this other one I don't like..there are so many different styles of that genre. Same with literature. But my ham indeed may taste better than yours. Or the other way around, I tend to burn food.

[Paul Martin]

Well said, Gary.

[Laurie]

Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated?

Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."

[Laurie]

I agree with most of these. I could never even get through The Catcher in the Rye and the only reason I got through Waiting for Godot was because I had to for a class. However, I loved Moby Dick (and it surprised me; I didn't expect to!).

[Monty J]

Karen wrote: "I hate opera too, but you're right- that is entirely different than saying it's just not my taste and I can't connect with it."

I felt that way until I actually saw one performed, within the film, Amadeus. Call me a wimp, but I cried. Then I saw a couple of them live and was supremely moved, transported.

I live on a small island in the Bay Area, Alameda, and we have a couple of opera stars living here. I didn't know it until I went to a church benefit at St. Joseph's basilica. Had a free ticket or wouldn't have gone. I was running late, couldn't find a parking place. The main door was locked. In a panic I dashed in the first door that would open. A beautiful woman was warbling to a mirror. I realized immediately that I had crashed into Frederica von Stade's dressing room. She smiled, motioning toward another door, and I backed out into the main sanctuary, beet red.

The climactic highlight was Frederica's duet, "The Prayer," with Chris Pucci, our home grown Italian tenor who had a free ride to Juliard.

Chris lifted the roof off that little church. (He beat Bocelli hand down. Here's Bocelli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjNfk...)

Me and half the place were in tears.

Unknowingly, I had sat behind this 30 year-old kid's father, who turned to me as I expressed wonderment to my date about his son's performance. His look said, "Hey, this is nothing. You oughtta hear... ." Big heavy Italian guy.

What I'm sayin' is it's a lot different when you're there.