The Catcher in the Rye
discussion
The Most Overrated Books
Id agree with most, and I think you covered it well- I will vehemently argue DaVinci code, I LOVED it, thought it deserved its hype.
I'll issue a minor harrumph over Gatsyby's making the most overrated list.
The rest belong here.
You've only got 9 up there, and I need two replacements for a nice round 10:
Steig Larsson's dragon tattoo series- not terrible books, but certainly mediocre. Perhaps the most overrated EVER
Phillip Roth's Human Stain which IME is the worst book I've ever read- just heard it made someone's 10 best of the new millennium
Into the Wild- Krakauer
It's all very subjective. A few of them are obvious classics and certainly shouldn't be considered over rated. I think the modern works like Twilight and Hunger Games get to much attention, but most classics deserve their status because they've lasted the test of time with people still appreciating them.
OMG- I forgot 50 shades! Dude- I'm all for erotic stories, Not since the early 60s when 30 year old Lady Chatterly's Lover finally got the nod from congress has it been so socially acceptable to read smut without hiding it under your mattress - Horay!
BUT THIS! THIS is the best we can do? No. No its not.
Honestly, it depends on your personal preferences. There are plenty of books that I think aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but other people think are the greatest books ever. There are also plenty of books I read because they were so highly regarded that I thought I would hate and ended up loving. Others I thought I would love and ended up hating. I would say you never know if a book is worth reading until you actually read it.
Making a list like this is like making a list of the most over rated ice cream flavors.Chocolate
Strawberry
Vanilla
What do you think constitutes something being 'over rated' to begin with? Is it because a lot of people enjoy the book and you didn't? Is it because you had to study it at school? Because it's a classic? This is too subjective a topic.
The same book can mean different things to someone even if you read it at different times in your life. For example, if you read Catcher in the Rye as a kid going through adolescence you might identify with it much more than if you read it as a thirty-something old.
Too many reasons why people will disagree on a list like this. Plus, it doesn't really prove anything except that some people don't like certain books while others do.
The first question, at least for the classics, is why have they lasted this while? Is it the herd mentality of readers? I think it is more than that. They spoke and speak to a people. Perhaps the 21st Century is changing things but it doesn't mean that they don't deserve the attention they are receiving, especially knowing that marketing was not as aggressive as it is today.Following from this, I look at all newly-published books (50 Shades, Twilight etc) that get a lot of hype with suspicion. I don't jump into them. Time will save the best and kill the rest.
Da DeVinci Cold by far is at the bottom of that list. Piece of crap, pandering to Anti Catholic Catholics.And no, I am not Christian.
Atlas Shrugged was boring. Ayn Rand is boring. Her political ideas are warped. Anyone want to buy a first edition. I got one for sale.
Gatsby has too many problems, literary, factual, warped viewpoint and attitudes. Come off it, we Easterners are not a bunch of greedy, moneygrubbers. No more so than mid-westerners.
The movie TWILIGHT was a plodding bore. Kiss me, neck me but don`t bite. Ho hum. bloodsucking atrocious. Don`t have the foolishness to read the book after watching such bad acting.
Never understood CITR. I guess I don`t have what Holden had.
I would add, NADJA by andre breton. Also Paradise Lost, THE POWER AND THE GLORY,and SANCTUARY
The one I've read most recently that I'd put at the top of a list of overrated books is Death in Venice. Although I know this book is considered a classic steeped in allegory, I can't get past the surface story of an adult man infatuated to the point of obsession with a young boy. It offended my sensibilities on every level. Even though I've read stellar reviews and a variety of professional analyses about the plot and characters, my opinion of the book and author have not changed. In fact, the more I read and discover about the author's own obsession with his 14 year old son, the more convinced I am in my opinion that this work was a self indulgent project and published more for shock value than anything else. Scholars and readers may continue to espouse the story's merit and depth in an effort to justify its classic status - however, in my opinion, it is Mann who is having the last laugh.
It depends on if you are talking about trashy modern books that are overrated like 50 Shades of Shit or the airport terminal fodder of John Grisham and Dan Brown, or you are talking about overrated books deemed to be classics.My votes for the most overrated pop culture book would be Twilight, Left Behind, or Ender's Game.
My votes for most overrated classic would be the Great Gatsby, Lolita, and Catcher in the Rye.
I actually liked Les Miserables, but I did have some issues with it and do consider it to be somewhat overrated. I'm talking about the Hugo novel BTW, not the musical number.
Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated? Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."
I liked The Great Gatsby and Twilight. If I added books to this list, they would be The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and 50 Shades of Grey. I didn't even finish Shades of Grey, and I never though TGwtDT would ever end!
Michael said ". . .Plus, it doesn't really prove anything except that some people don't like certain books while others do." I don't think that anyone is trying to ultimately prove anything. (At least I'm not.) It's just a discussion on people's options and thoughts on books. There's no wrong or right. The nature of book discussions are usually subjective. It's personal thoughts in a group where people agree to disagree. It's just interesting to hear what others think about a book.
Emma wrote: "Honestly, it depends on your personal preferences. There are plenty of books that I think aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but other people think are the greatest books ever. There are a..."This is very true. I've read books thinking I'd like them, and I didn't. I've started books I thought I'd hate, but I was curious, so I read them. I ended up enjoying them. The Twilight saga were books I thought I'd hate, but I ended up liking them. Go figure. :)
As overrated as I think Catcher in the Rye is, there's something about it being on the same list as Twilight that seems inherently wrong.Haven't read some of those, but, while not life changing, The Da Vinci Code worked fine as an entertaining read. I disagree with Waiting for Godot and The Stranger, but I'm not surprised to see them there.
I'd add A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, Ethan Frome, The House of Mirth, and The Sorrows of Young Werther.
The Catcher in the Rye is way overrated!! I struggled to get through it. I kept thinking it would get better and it didn't. Very disappointing for what is supposed to be a "classic"!!
@ MattIt is fun to rant and vent about the books you HATED that everyone else seems to love. I find it cathartic personally.
How come nobody has a problem with threads that ask you to list your favorite books? I've participated in such a thread where there are well over 70 people willing to share books they loved. Not one person posted anything like "What is the point?" "It's all subjective." etc, etc. But, when the question is turned around, some people seem to have a problem with listing the books they wouldn't recommend. Personally, it's very helpful to me to hear constructive criticism from others about books they thought were overrated. I have limited time to read so if one person saves me some searching and helps me decide whether or not I want to read a book, then this thread is worth it.
Maria wrote: "How come nobody has a problem with threads that ask you to list your favorite books? I've participated in such a thread where there are well over 70 people willing to share books they loved. Not on..."The problem with lists like this is that they don't give details about a books weaknesses (as perceived subjectively). You are still left with an opinion that you may not share if you read the book, which in fact may be an important book for you though others find it overrated. I suppose if you read the list and checked it against reviews you would know more. By the way, though they do have their weaknesses (what books do not?) I do not think Catcher, Moby Dick, The Great Gatsby or The Stranger overrated. I haven't read Godot and Ulysses, but that is because I am have been lazy and they are works that demand an effort to read in a way I'm not accustomed to reading; that does not make them overrated. As for the last three, Atlas Shrugged is a pile of over-determined caca and I usually find pop novels vapid, badly written, and more annoying than enjoyable.
I've only read Ayn Rand's Anthem but if that is a true but admittedly small sampling of her work I'd just as soon skip a larger tome like Atlas Shrugged.
I suppose I can stop beating myself up for not finishing Catcher In The Rye. I never got what was so great about it even though I read it as a teen. Same goes for Atlas Shrugged, that never even crossed my radar. Maybe because even as a teenager, I had the sneaking suspicion we were all assholes. And these two books flatter that self absorption I found so embarrassing about my peers.Dunno about Moby Dick though. Boring at times for sure. But amazing prose. Ulysses is the 'Kid A' of great novels. Not for everyday reading, but undeniable brilliance.
Yes, there are chapters in ULYSSES that are stupendous. And then others, he just go on and on and on...Stop drumming your stupid Everready bunny.
@ Michael, You are right that it is an opinion and therefore mostly subjective, but I have different reasons for listing various books as overrated. I consider Catcher to be overrated largely because I personally hated it and found it worthless. On the other hand, Lolita is technically well written and I don't actually hate it. I DO feel that its literary reputation has been massively bolstered by the firestorm of controversy surrounding it and the fact it was banned. If censors had not gone ballistic it would be like Pale Fire and the rest of Nabokov's works, IE. no one has read them and no one cares!
Twilight has to be some of the worst writing. The editor should be fired for letting so many problems with writing. Catcher I did like. What annoys me is the book "Perks of Being a Wallflower" which is rip off of Catcher for teens. Atlas Shrugged and The Great Gatsby were two books I did not like, even though the writing was good. Moby Dick I did enjoy. Did not enjoy The Old Man and the Sea. I Find that overrated.
@Ian, you might find Reading Lolita in Iran interesting for its take on the book in question. Author makes the point that the book's theme is sexual oppression/objectification and that Humbert has no regard for L as a human being. I think she makes a good point, and one that many men (not pointing a finger here) should consider. For myself, thought it brilliant after my second read and will likely read the annotated edition.
Kallie wrote: "@Ian, you might find Reading Lolita in Iran interesting for its take on the book in question. Author makes the point that the book's theme is sexual oppression/objectification and that Humbert has..."I'm glad you were able to enjoy Lolita. Like I said, I really don't think it is a bad book. It is quite good, but do you see what I'm saying with the controversy thing? Nabokov hardly helped. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that he at first refused to give his true opinions on the matter of pedophilia and only admitted that he doesn't sympathize with Humbert after the media controversy had made him a literary legend and millions of dollars.
Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated? Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The..."
Lists like this that lack objective measurement parameters serve no useful purpose. It's strictly a matter of personal taste.
I don't agree with the majority of these selections. Da Vinci Code and Twilight are such a stark contrast to the previous books that I don't think they have the gravitas to be included in the conversation.With no restrictions, though, I would include The Life of Pi as being one of the most overrated books I've ever read. Everyone and their brother has suggested it to me at one time or another and I barely got through it.
Jane Austen would be #1 on my list for most overrated authors.
Anything by Dan Brown, the Harry Potter books, Notes on a Scandal, Ulysses, Rebecca, the Twilight series.
Ian wrote: "Kallie wrote: "@Ian, you might find Reading Lolita in Iran interesting for its take on the book in question. Author makes the point that the book's theme is sexual oppression/objectification and t..."I should have said "in Tehran." As for 'Lolita,' maybe it's hard to separate it from the hoohaa but I read it much later and have found few books so brilliant on American culture, though I am not a particular fan of Nabokov.
i disagree with the catcher in the rye..for myself it was amazing. it's one of the books you should read at a certain age, around 12-17, as i did. it's definetly one of the books from my adolescence that enhanced my passion for reading
'Ulysses' and 'Midnight's Children' are two of the worst books I've ever read. They make Stephenie Meyer look like a genius.
'The Da Vinci Code' is actually a fairly good thriller, and 'Twilight' is a decent supernatural romance, but they're both very overrated.
Two underrated novels are 'Temeraire' (also known as His Majesty's Dragon) by Naomi Novik, and 'Dangerous Liaisons' by De Laclos (best book of the 1700's in my opinion).
But it's all subjective opinion anyway. Lots of people really love the books on that list.
'The Da Vinci Code' is actually a fairly good thriller, and 'Twilight' is a decent supernatural romance, but they're both very overrated.
Two underrated novels are 'Temeraire' (also known as His Majesty's Dragon) by Naomi Novik, and 'Dangerous Liaisons' by De Laclos (best book of the 1700's in my opinion).
But it's all subjective opinion anyway. Lots of people really love the books on that list.
I think these lists are helpful if for no other reason than I often (always) get sucked in by the hype. I would never NOT read a book because it showed up on this thread- but I WOULD put one down half way through instead of thinking to myself "this has to get good any minute now" instead of going with my instincts.
Its never a waste to start a book- but it can be a waste to finish one if you are suffering through it.
I think the classics should be read- but I think this thread is more geared toward enjoyment. You cant argue the cultural or literary relevance or Moby Dick or Catcher, but you can admit it if they bored you to tears or would rather poke needles in your eyes than read them again.
Whenever I see a person slam, or call The Catcher In the Rye an overrated, my heart breaks a little more. It is beyond my comprehension how someone can hate this book. In my mind, if you hated it, you just DIDN'T get it. To hate Holden C.? How can you hate a boy so obviosuly a teenager, who is mourning, and confused, angry and adorable , yet at the same time funny and heartbreaking as hell. He is just trying to cope with life. You were expecting a masterpiece ending, a climax to the story, which there is none, so you cut it off and call it nonsense. oh, Mr. Salinger woe to us, who slander your classic book. But then again, they just missed the boat.goddammit, a bunch of phonies!
I agree with Catcher in the Rye. I didn't enjoy it all. The Alchemist by Paolo Coelho was a let down for me too. I liked ALL of his books better than this one. Books are subjective though and I might enjoy a book I hate before at different points in life.
Chava, I agree completely, and appreciate your comments- its an excellent review of the book.
Holden was an "obvious teen"
To you its touching and hearbreaking, this teenager trying to cope with life.
To me its boring common and winey, because he's just another teenager trying to cope with life.
I don't HATE Holden C, I couldn't care less about Holden and that's why IMO it belongs on the list for the most overrated book ever.
But Holden is not just another teen because he expresses what he is feeling, which many teens don't get to do (if through Salinger). Salinger got it exactly right though; he is a worthy conduit for teen angst and I agree with Chava wholeheartedly even though I am 66 years old (actually, Holden and I are contemporaries). That teenager is in me still and always will be, so forget the agist fools who talk about maturing as if you cannot still be your teenage self and be an adult. They are wrong!
Maria wrote: "How come nobody has a problem with threads that ask you to list your favorite books? I've participated in such a thread where there are well over 70 people willing to share books they loved. Not on..."When I am looking at a book on Amazon, I usually go to the 1 star ratings. Most people give specifics as to why they didn't like it and when I see things like: needs more editing, lots of hype but no substance, story is just a vehicle for ranting, erotica, an ax to grind etc. I nix the book. I might look at the 5 star ratings to see what people are saying but people can gush over a lot of garbage...as with 50 Shades.
However, I do like Gatsby, but that was after I tutored a high school student in English. I did a bit of research to refresh my memory and I came across this point: If Gatsby had a more worthy object than, Daisy then everything he did to be worthy of her would have been heroic. Because he loved Daisy when he was very young, he became a self-made man of wealth, culture and position. He was single minded in his ambition and ultimately he gave his life for her. Unfortunately, Daisy wasn't worthy of him.
In the beginning of the book, the narrator has something to say about him which is the key to the book:
Gatsby, who represented everything for which I have an unaffected scorn. If personality is an unbroken series of successful gestures, then there was something gorgeous about him, some heightened sensitivity to the promises of life, as if he were related to one of those intricate machines that register earthquakes ten thousand miles away. This responsiveness had nothing to do with that flabby impressionability which is dignified under the name of the "creative temperament"-it was an extraordinary gift for hope, a romantic readiness such as I have never found in any other person and which it is not likely I shall ever find again. No-Gatsby turned out all right at the end; it is what preyed on Gatsby, what foul dust floated in the wake of his dreams that temporarily closed out my interest in the abortive sorrows and short-winded elations of men.
Nancy wrote: "Chava wrote: "Whenever I see a person slam, or call The Catcher In the Rye an overrated, my heart breaks a little more. It is beyond my comprehension how someone can hate this book.Excellently put!!! "
Ditto.
I feel that Catcher in the Rye (and other classics that I don't like) is like an abstract painting. Art enthusiasts might claim that it is a masterpiece and pay an outrageous price for it, but to the rest of us it just looks like the scribbles of an eight year old. Catcher in the Rye may have value to some people, but I just don't see it, nor do I want to. Personally, I would rather read a book that I enjoy rather than suffering through one just because other people think I should. Life is too short to read books you don't like. Or to buy ugly paintings.
The classics that get slammed as overrated I think happens because so many of us have to read them. I think a lot of these sample books have value even if they're not the most exciting reads. For instance, I didn't LOVE reading "All Quiet on the Western Front" but I learned a lot and appreciated the tone and how it conveyed the experience. Other classics I fall in love with. I'd say 50% of the NYT bestseller list is overhyped; but that's more about consumption than rating good books.
I was underwhelmed when I ready Jane Eyre, and wished I'd read it before my 40's when I was more of a romantic. I know I would've emotionally connected to it more at a younger age. I still liked it and thought it was good but not the best book ever.
An author and series of books that I despise who many seem to love is Augustan Burroughs. I really loathe his writing and am stymied how he ever became a writer. UGH.
Maria wrote: "Which books do you think are overrated? Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The Stranger
Ulysses
Atlas Shrugged
The Da Vinci Code
Twilight
I agree with the list except Moby Dick and Waiting for Godot.
The rest are, mostly, not worth the paper they're printed on. Ulysses is worth reading, but it wouldn't be criminal to skip. The others are waste.
There is a big difference between thinking something overrated, and being dismissive because I don't get a books's message or enjoy its style. I consider it important to leave some space in my mind for the possibility that I might, just might, be wrong. I also think that their is a big difference, not always acknowledged in this thread, between commercial poorly written books with shallow characterization, and works of art, which are much more complex and personal and serve as more than entertainment.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
High Fidelity (other topics)
Less Than Zero (other topics)
Adam Bede (other topics)
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)
More...
George R.R. Martin (other topics)
Allan Bloom (other topics)
Richard Dawkins (other topics)
Richard Dawkins (other topics)
More...
Books mentioned in this topic
War and Peace (other topics)High Fidelity (other topics)
Less Than Zero (other topics)
Adam Bede (other topics)
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Leo Tolstoy (other topics)George R.R. Martin (other topics)
Allan Bloom (other topics)
Richard Dawkins (other topics)
Richard Dawkins (other topics)
More...









Here's a quick sampling from various internet sites that recommend skipping these:
The Catcher in the Rye
Moby Dick
The Great Gatsby
Waiting for Godot
The Stranger
Ulysses
Atlas Shrugged
The Da Vinci Code
Twilight
What do you think? Do you agree? Any titles you'd add to the list?