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message 1: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
I know I'm late on posting this. I truly though I had posted this already! Anyhow if you can join us in this read please do!


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Great! I'll let you all know when my hold comes in. Should be able to start this weekend.


message 3: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Awesome because I have been trying to read this book for months. I have it on my kindle. Let me know. I think the plot line in itself makes for great discussions!


message 4: by Londa (last edited Oct 10, 2013 07:36AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments My copy came in! Picked it up today. For anyone reading along, does this sound like a good schedule to discuss?

10/14 Start discussing Ch. 1-12
10/21 Start discussing Ch 13-24
10/28 Start discussing Ch 25-37

Each of those sections is about 110-115 pages long.

Here is an interview with the author Daniel Black. I haven't listened to it yet, but I will try to before we start discussing.

http://newbooksinafroamstudies.com/20...


message 5: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
That schedule work for me!


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments *** Starting Discussion of Chapter 1-12 (SPOILERS BELOW) ***

There was certainly a lot packed into this first third of the book! We have been introduced to all of the Peace family some of the other residents of Conway County, Arkansas.

I'll just ask a few questions at a time since there is so much to talk about. Answer what you want to, and add other thoughts too :D

Chapter 1: What was your first impression of Gus & Emma Jean Peace? Their children?

Chapter 1: What did you think of Emma Jean's decision? Of Henrietta's choice(s)?

Chapter 2: Did your opinion of Emma Jean change once read about her childhood?

Chapter 3: Did your opinion of Henrietta change when you read of her past?


message 7: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (last edited Oct 14, 2013 06:58AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Chapter 1: What was your first impression of Gus & Emma Jean Peace? Their children?
They were two ignorant people who probably shouldn't have repoduced. I don't mean that in a judgemental way but in a literal way. They both were definitely products of their enviroments and childhood and in some cases just didnt' know any better. And what's worse is that they just kept making babies.

Chapter 1: What did you think of Emma Jean's decision? Of Henrietta's choice(s)?

Emma Jean isn't mentally stable so it's hard to judge her character. Someone like that is truly a sick person and based off her childhood that isn't hard to believe or understand why. As for Henrietta, she knows right from wrong. she made a selfish decision. Granted she was black-mailed but sometimes you just have to let the truth come to light in situations like Emma Jean's.

Chapter 2: Did your opinion of Emma Jean change once read about her childhood?
I wouldn't say my opinion changed any. I still think she's insane. I think knowing her childhood let the readers know why she's screwed up in the head but it didn't necessarily, for me, excuse it.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Chapter 1: What was your first impression of Gus & Emma Jean Peace? Their children?

I was awed by how Gus deals with his emotions. The idea of a man purging his emotional stress by crying out in the rain actually struck me as quite beautiful. He appears to be a kind man and a good father, even if he is a bit slow.

At first I could not get a clear picture of Emma Jean. She seemed to love her children, but at the same time always wanting something else. She definitely runs the household and makes all of the rules, whether they make sense or not.

They have been blessed with good children. All of them have a gift that sets them apart from the others in some way. Even Bartimaeus has a specialness to him that is not hindered by his blindness.

Chapter 1: What did you think of Emma Jean's decision? Of Henrietta's choice(s)?

Since that is the premise of this book, I was not shocked by what she did, but I just can't fathom it! Why would someone do that to their own child. Pure selfishness? Insanity? How could she think this was a good idea? I felt awful for Henrietta because she was clearly being blackmailed, but I still hold her at fault too.

Chapter 2: Did your opinion of Emma Jean change once read about her childhood?

This chapter was heartbreaking. It just reinforces the idea that damages done to a child don't end with that child. Emma Jean's mother damaged her deeply and now Emma Jean is going to harm her child in an entirely different but equally harmful way. There are strong themes of self hatred and colorism which are very evident here. I still think Emma Jean's choice was wrong, but at least I can understand it just a little.

Chapter 3: Did your opinion of Henrietta change when you read of her past?

I can understand, but again, I think they will all pay for their deception in the end.

I noticed that Black uses the color yellow repeatedly, and I guess it stemmed from Emma Jeans love of the color. A yellow bird was outside the window was her 'sign'. She wanted to put yellow ribbons in the baby's hair and yellow dresses. She wanted a yellow birthday cake for her birthday party.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments kisha wrote: "They were two ignorant people who probably shouldn't have repoduced. I don't mean that in a judgemental way but in a literal way. They both were definitely products of their enviroments and childhood and in some cases just didnt' know any better. And what's worse is that they just kept making babies..."

True! They wouldn't be top candidates for a gene bank, but isn't it amazing that those children they kept making, turned out sooo well. I have noticed this in life too. Sometimes the most 'messed up' people produce the most 'PERFECT' ;) children.


message 10: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
This chapter was heartbreaking. It just reinforces the idea that damages done to a child don't end with that child. Emma Jean's mother damaged her deeply and now Emma Jean is going to harm her child in an entirely different but equally harmful way.

Very true statement. It almost becomes a generational curse. The abuse definitely is the generational curse through Emma Jean. Though it may not have been physical she replaced it with mental abuse towards her children.

There are strong themes of self hatred and colorism which are very evident here.

Yes! I noticed that and it seems to be a cycle in the black community especially in the 20's and 30's. Not feeling good enough or not passing the "paperbag" check. And it causes one to push those same beliefs off to his or her children.

I purposely didn't comment about their children. I want to see how far it goes.

I noticed that Black uses the color yellow repeatedly, and I guess it stemmed from Emma Jeans love of the color.
I did notice this. Yellow symbolizes purity, happiness and brightness which I believe is a pun on the complexion of her favorite child being lighter than the rest as well as the fact that Perfect is her favorite child. It also symbolizes deceit and cowardice which is definitely true to the whole plot of the story. Also it's used simply as a represention of caution. It's also considered an unstable color. So I definitely believe Black didn't randomly pick the color yellow. Good eye for detail Londa!


message 11: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (last edited Oct 14, 2013 08:06AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Here's a question to pose. What do you feel about the word love in the story?

I know that you touched on it a bit when you said that you believe Emma Jean did love her children. My insight on the subject; she doesn't know how to love. She was never taught how to love and never recieved it in her childhood. I don't think she knows how to love her children. She's already admitted that she doesn't love her husband. She basically think she's doing him a favor by tolerating someone that know one else wants. As for her children, I don't think she knows how to properly love them. Even Perfect is a product of deciet and selfishness. It isn't about loving him it's about her getting what she wants and being able to have the "girl" she never had she she can treat "her" the way her mother should have.

Gus knew how to love. He tried his hardest even when it was difficult for him. He tried.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments kisha wrote: "Here's a question to pose. What do you feel about the word love in the story?

I know that you touched on it a bit when you said that you believe Emma Jean did love her children. My insight on th..."


You make really good points! She never was shown love. I really do think she loves them, but maybe what I am attributing to love (her defending them to her mother later on) is really something else. In any case, her form of love is extremely unhealthy. Yeah, it was evident that she didn't love Gus. Maybe he thought he loved her once, but that seems to have faded as well. He does loves his children and is the much more competent/caring of the two.

kisha wrote: "Yellow symbolizes purity, happiness and brightness which I believe is a pun on the complexion of her favorite child being lighter than the rest as well as the fact that Perfect is her favorite child. It also symbolizes deceit and cowardice which is definitely true to the whole plot of the story. Also it's used simply as a represention of caution. It's also considered an unstable color. So I definitely believe Black didn't randomly pick the color yellow..."

Great points kisha! I really hadn't thought about 'what' the yellow symbolized. All of what you wrote makes perfect sense though. It will be fun to keep an eye out for yellow throughout the book.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Chapter 4-6 ***spoilers below ** Answer what you want and add other thoughts/questions.



And they were not ashamed.
*Bartimaeus joins Gus for his 'rain purge' for the first time. They seem to have very similar personalities. What do you think of this ritual?

*Emma Jean expresses her desire to provide special things for her new daughter, such as purses and bows. Do you think this will cause jealousy with her other children?

*Gracie comes for a visit and asks Emma Jean to visit her ill mother. Would you feel compelled to visit someone like that?

*Emma Jean recalls the last time she saw her mother and how she finally had enough of her hateful words and kicked her out. Do you think this has helped Emma Jean to move on?

*Emma Jean recalls meeting her father at the age of 8. Do you think she would have been a different person if she would have gone to live with him?

*The color yellow appears again... Yellow paint for the bedroom that Perfect will sleep in.


message 14: by Londa (last edited Oct 15, 2013 08:01AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments I think that Gus' ritual of purging out his troubles with the rain is wonderful. I was glad that Bartimaeus shared his particular sensitivites and that he no longer had to feel alone. There are always people who feel things more deeply than others, and this ritual would seem to be an effective way for them to cope. The oldest son, James Earl also seems to be more sensitive than others. I wonder how he will fare in comparison because he does not seem to have a coping mechanism.

I think Emma Jean is going to regret doting on Perfect so much. She seems to be repeating the cycle that her mother started. Her boys are going to resent all the extras that Perfect will get. "Because she's a girl" will only go so far.

I don't blame Emma Jean. I would not visit the woman.

I was glad that Emma Jean spoke up and stopped her mother from talking about her family. The woman is evil.

I think Emma Jean would have been a much different person had she gone to live with her father. He seemed to truly love and cherish her, even from afar. Once again, her mother managed to poison something that was good for her.

------
Reading over what I wrote, it would seem that I need to stop using the word seem so much. LOL


message 15: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Give me a day (or less) and I will get back to you on those answers.


message 16: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Bartimaeus joins Gus for his 'rain purge' for the first time. They seem to have very similar personalities. What do you think of this ritual?

I'm not gonna lie, I don't by it. I'm all for men expressing themselves and all of that. But the whole crying in the rain (regularly as a tradition) for me is just awkward.


Gracie comes for a visit and asks Emma Jean to visit her ill mother. Would you feel compelled to visit someone like that?

I don't exactly know what I would do in that situation.

*Emma Jean recalls the last time she saw her mother and how she finally had enough of her hateful words and kicked her out. Do you think this has helped Emma Jean to move on?

I believe it was a cause of pent up anger that she was finally able to realse and she may have felt healed from it. But it won't change her. Not just that one circumstance. She won't change until she realizes that she has become her mother.

Emma Jean recalls meeting her father at the age of 8. Do you think she would have been a different person if she would have gone to live with him

Yes I think she would have definitely been different because the path that you take in life is what grooms you to be the individual that you are. Now I don't know if she'd be better or worse...just different.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments kisha wrote: "
I'm not gonna lie, I don't by it. I'm all for men expressing themselves and all of that. But the whole crying in the rain (regularly as a tradition) for me is just awkward. ..."


Don't let Smoky Robinson hear you say that. He has made millions from his tears. LOL

kisha wrote: "...But it won't change her. Not just that one circumstance. She won't change until she realizes that she has become her mother.,

True.


message 18: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
bahahahaha!!!! Smokey Robinson will just have to understand lol.


message 19: by Londa (last edited Oct 16, 2013 07:10AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments *** Chapter 7, 8, & 9 ***

(view spoiler)


message 20: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Now we have had quite a few buddy reads together Londa. With that being said YOU KNOW I'M A SLOW READER!!! Slow down lol. Give me a day I'll be there! ;)


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Sorry kisha! I thought you were past that point already. I will hide my last post. Hope you didn't already read it!


message 22: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (last edited Oct 16, 2013 07:13AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
No I didn't it's ok thought I'm almost there lol


message 23: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
I know I read depressingly slow :(


message 24: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Omg! A mess! But not surprising. She's obviously unstable. The critical side of me says it's getting a bit too melodramatic and even a bit unrealistic which is a but of a turn off. And I was definitely thinking the same about the revaltion. Can't say I've ever met a family like the Peace family lol.


message 25: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Londa, I must retract my statement. After reading more. I see she does love her children. Maybe I've been hard on ole Emma Jean! her mother just screwed her up so bad!


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments kisha wrote: "Londa, I must retract my statement. After reading more. I see she does love her children. Maybe I've been hard on ole Emma Jean! her mother just screwed her up so bad!"

And here I was about to retract mine. She is repeating some patterns learned from her Momma in the next section and I just want to shake her!


message 27: by Londa (last edited Oct 18, 2013 08:34AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments **** Chapter 10, 11, 12 *****

(view spoiler)


message 28: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Dang! lol


message 29: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
The Christmas scene got me too. How selfish. And the yellow symbolism is so strong in this book very Morrison like. I really loved that she made her blind son the one to figure it out. I thought it clever. And the coffin thing still creeps me out. I really hope she revisits that with good revelation otherwise it's just creepy! I'm wavering between 3.5-4 stars. Though the next couple chapters are really good.


message 30: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Also,I really liked the menstruation question. Now Emma Jean is realizing she didn't dot her I's and cross her t's. I mean she truly didn't think this through.


message 31: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Man this book is getting really good. Can't wait to discuss the next few chapters. I couldn't help reading on. I'm on chapter 17 now. Definitely a solid 4 stats now.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments She was definitely knocked back to reality with the menstruation question! I wish it were as simple as some of us do and some of us don't. LOL

I don't have the book with me this weekend, but if you want to discuss the next chapters I can. I just don't remember what exactly happened in each chapter without looking. I have read through 20, so I'm good through there.


message 33: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
What do you think about the way Emma Jean told Perfect his true identity?

Gus finally decided enough was enough. What are your opinions about his new found attitude and finding his voice? Was it necessary? Did it make the situation better or worse?

Once Gus found out about Perfect he could no longer look him in the face and was uncertain if he could love him the same. Any thoughts on that?

Authorly is extremely hard on Perfect trying to turn him into a boy. Do you think it's a bit much or very necessary?

Aurthorly doesn't see the regretful side of Emma Jean. Do you think she feels sincerely apologetic and regretful?


message 34: by Londa (last edited Oct 20, 2013 11:47AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments What do you think about the way Emma Jean told Perfect his true identity?

I don't see as how she had much of a choice. Sort of like taking a band-aid off..you can do it slowly, or you can rip it off quickly. She chose to rip it off. Gus making him strip in the living room was awful.awful.awful. Maybe she could have taken Gus aside privately and told him, but I don't think she imagined he would do that.

Gus finally decided enough was enough. What are your opinions about his new found attitude and finding his voice? Was it necessary? Did it make the situation better or worse?

I am glad that he found his new voice. Emma Jean needed someone to help her rein in her crazy. I never condone violence in any situation, and I really hate the way he treats Perfect here. However, I don't know many men who wouldn't have suffered a mental break after something like that. It's hard to tell how his actions will affect everyone in the long run

Once Gus found out about Perfect he could no longer look him in the face and was uncertain if he could love him the same. Any thoughts on that?

I think only time can help him. That was a lot for anyone to handle

Authorly is extremely hard on Perfect trying to turn him into a boy. Do you think it's a bit much or very necessary?

Authorly sees it as necessary and that he is only saving him from future torment. I think he was extremely harsh with him, but Perfect needed a lot of re-training in a short amount of time. None of them knew any better

Aurthorly doesn't see the regretful side of Emma Jean. Do you think she feels sincerely apologetic and regretful?

I do think she is regretful. She definitely would not have done it again if given the chance.


message 35: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (last edited Oct 21, 2013 03:19AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
What do you think about the way Emma Jean told Perfect his true identity?

I think it was a bit harsh and insensitive. I think there could have been another way. But I respect the fact that she finally told the truth and didn't allow it to go on much longer.

Gus finally decided enough was enough. What are your opinions about his new found attitude and finding his voice? Was it necessary? Did it make the situation better or worse?

It was beginning to bother me that he was so passive so I liked the he finally found his voice and stood up for himself. He was a bit of a push over.

Once Gus found out about Perfect he could no longer look him in the face and was uncertain if he could love him the same. Any thoughts on that?

I imagine it's hard being a man. He loved Perfect but couldn't find it in his heart to love Paul. That was a bit disturbing to me. I felt a lot was taken out on the child which was unfair. He was way to harsh on the boy for playing with Eva Mae, his best friend, the only person who would play with him (although I find it disturbing their sexual encounters at 8 and the detail that Black includes is a bit unsettling for me).

Authorly is extremely hard on Perfect trying to turn him into a boy. Do you think it's a bit much or very necessary?

Authorly is getting on my damn nerves!


Aurthorly doesn't see the regretful side of Emma Jean. Do you think she feels sincerely apologetic and regretful?

It's complicated. I do believe she is apologetic and sympathetic of the situation that she caused. But I don't believe she regrets it. I say so because if their was a way she could keep it going without anyone finding out she would have. So that to me means she isn't regretful. She was more concerned about getting caught then ruining Perfect's life. She is more sad about losing her daughter than the situation has a whole. But I give her credit in the sense that she has finally realized that she was becoming her mother and knowing that she needs to change. I don't judge her.


message 36: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
By the way I think the scene at her mother's grave was the most powerful part of the whole book so far.


message 37: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
I've been wavering between 3 and 4 stars for this book. I do like the book in general but I am not ok with the authors assumption that, if you are told you are a girl then you will be gay. I'm struggling with the fact that he didn't take much genetic consideration with his gender analysis. For instance his crush on Johnny Ray. Is it a fact that he will crush on boys just because his mom told him he's a girl? That would mean that for the most part there wouldn't be a gay/lesbian community because they were raised to believe the opposite sex is attractive. I struggled with his implication on that. It reads, to me, a bit opinionated and lack of research. What are your thoughts about that subject?


message 38: by Londa (last edited Oct 21, 2013 06:12AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments kisha wrote: "By the way I think the scene at her mother's grave was the most powerful part of the whole book so far."

I agree. She came full circle.

kisha wrote: "I've been wavering between 3 and 4 stars for this book. I do like the book in general but I am not ok with the authors assumption that, if you are told you are a girl then you will be gay. I'm st..."

I am trying to reserve judgement on this until I get to the end of the book. I am not sure which direction he is going with this, but I agree with you that, for now, he seems to be suggesting that nurture overrules nature on questions of gender. I would NOT be okay with that as a final opinion.

What chapter are you on?


message 39: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Just got to chat 29


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Ok. Lots to talk about then :0)

What about their big family reveal at church? Now THAT was the worst possible way to let everyone know about it. I had hoped Emma Jean would have gone to the church alone and told them what SHE had done and asked forgiveness. That would have given the community some time to digest it all before Paul just showed up. Of course, that would not have been dramatic enough.

Then she burned her own behind in the kitchen. Kind of poetic justice. The part where Mamie came to visit her was a trip. Emma Jean was glad she couldn't move. She would've slapped Mamie Cunningham, elder or not

Then there was Gus beating poor Paul and going outside to 'fight' with God.
------------------------------------------------------
What did you think about their decision to pull Sol from school and let Paul go? I thought it was a bad decision but then it seemed to motivate Sol to go on to achieve greater things (college)

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I thought that Authorly taking his brother with him when he got married was one of the best things in the book. He was such a hard character, but with the brother that needed him most he was a teddy bear.

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The dress in the barn thing. I thought Paul was going to die for sure. I was surprised that Gus didn't hurt him more than he did.
His almost dying from fever was a blessing in disguise, since it finally opened Gus' heart to him again.

---------------------------------------------

Oh and does the scenes between Eva Mae and Paul creep you out. Gah! I wish Daniel wouldn't have gone so far as he did with those!

---------------------------

Ok I am starting Chapter 25 now.


message 41: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
What about their big family reveal at church? Now THAT was the worst possible way to let everyone know about it. I had hoped Emma Jean would have gone to the church alone and told them what SHE had done and asked forgiveness. That would have given the community some time to digest it all before Paul just showed up. Of course, that would not have been dramatic enough.

I don't know if it's because he is a male writer and he lacks sensitivity or if this is exactly the brutality that he wants us to feel when we read this, but there is not one person who shows any kind of sympathy for Paul's feelings. That was horrible how Gus did that. Just plain horrible!

Then she burned her own behind in the kitchen. Kind of poetic justice. The part where Mamie came to visit her was a trip. Emma Jean was glad she couldn't move. She would've slapped Mamie Cunningham, elder or not.
She should've beat her. I didn't like Mamie. She really gets on my damn nerves! Just plain old fashion nosey and judgemental! But I enjoyed Henrietta's visit more. How did she burn herself, was she cooking? I missed it.

Then there was Gus beating poor Paul and going outside to 'fight' with God.

that really pissed me off. Not that he was battling God. More because he took it out on Paul. The poor child is confused. I think they all forget he's the victim.

What did you think about their decision to pull Sol from school and let Paul go? I thought it was a bad decision but then it seemed to motivate Sol to go on to achieve greater things (college)

In those days it wasn't uncommon to only send one child or only for a certain amount of time because many didn't see the importance in school or if they did they simply had to put current financial sitiuations or furtur potential. That's the part that lets you know how hard it is to be a parent. They could only afford to send one child. With that being said, on one hand Paul just wasn't a field kid. And probably was in the way more than he was helping. Not only that but I think she wanted to give him a break from all the scolding he recieved from Gus and Authorly. But how do you tell your education son who loves learning that he can't go? I think I understand why she did it.

I thought that Authorly taking his brother with him when he got married was one of the best things in the book. He was such a hard character, but with the brother that needed him most he was a teddy bear.
James Earl I think was his name? That chapter was so awkward and confusing for me. First because there are so many brothers and not enough character development for each of them so I kind of forgot about him to have any kind of opinion. He was definitely diffrent. But that chapter kind of lost me. Then with him jumping in the future and coming back to the present. I didn't really give that chapter much of my attention.

The dress in the barn thing. I thought Paul was going to die for sure. I was surprised that Gus didn't hurt him more than he did.

My goodness I prayed for him as I read that part as if he was a real person! I mean edge of the seat biting my nails! I thought he'd kill him.

His almost dying from fever was a blessing in disguise, since it finally opened Gus' heart to him again.

It definitely was. I believe everything happens for a reason.

Oh and does the scenes between Eva Mae and Paul creep you out. Gah! I wish Daniel wouldn't have gone so far as he did with those!

Creepy isn't the word. More like inappropriate. I read many books that are vulgar and has subject matters that many can't handle. But kids and sex for me is just a no-no. I found it weird. And honestly I almost put the book down once I realized that there was no greater good there. That it had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with nothing! So far there was no reason for those scenes. And I do discredit Black for that. I put a note in my Kindle to put that in my review actually. Did I miss something? Was there a reason for it being there?

What do you think about Sugar Baby? Was his character important to the novel? I'm struggling with that. (if you haven't noticed i'm extremely critical lol...I should have been an editor!


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Yes. Emma Jean burned herself when she was cooking the family meal after the church reveal.

I agree with you about the child sex thing. I know that kids experiment and all of that, but I felt that Black went just a bit too far with it (If he would have left out the oral bit, I would have been OK but Noooo...he had to put that in there!). I think he was trying to establish Paul/Perfect gender identity, but all it did was confuse me. He enjoyed being with Eva Mae when he was Perfect AND when he was Paul. So...he's straight?? But then he is also attracted to Johnny Ray...so he's homosexual?? Maybe he is bi-sexual??? I don't know.

Sugar Baby seems to only be there to irritate Emma Jean and then later to save Paul. He acts as a sort of magical all-knowing character.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments I'm done with the book, but I don't want to discuss past where you are. What chapter are you on?


message 44: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (last edited Oct 22, 2013 07:18AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
You know me...slacking! I'm on 32. I will be finished tonight for sure! Sorry I'm reading three books right now....ok that's a lie I'm reading two and I'm in denial about the other in which I've neglected!

Yeah it seems like he put Sugar Baby in the store as a spiritual figure sort of a drunk prophit? That no one takes seriously becuase he's a drunk but it isn't necessary to the story. I like this book it definitely has my interest. I think Black lacks on the development of characters. The best character he developed is Emma Jean. Even Perfects character hasn't been properly justified. NO...Paul's character isn't detailed enough. He actually did well with Perfect's character. It seems he didn't really know where he wanted to go with Paul. And the story is a bit predictable especially the biblical allusions King Solomon and the Jordan. I found it a bit cheesy.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments Ok. No need to hurry. Why don't we just discuss everything when you finish?

Yeah. Black has his corny moments, but the book is definitely entertaining! A great one for discussion.


message 46: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Ok that works for me! I'll post when I'm finish and it will be today.


message 47: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
I finally finished this book. Definitely moved to 4 stars! Let me know when you are ready to discuss.


Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments I'm ready!

Mister and Johnny Ray: Oh my! In my opinion this is where DB clarifies his message about homosexuality. By Mister being homosexual it implies that there was a genetic predisposition for that in the family. Really almost all of the Peace men had some effeminate qualities about them. Regardless of how Emma Jean treated Paul/Peace when he was young, he was probably going to be feminine anyway. She just didn't know she was catering to his TRUE self. What do you think?

Emma Jean's breakdown : Wow! I don't know what to feel about this. On the one hand, I feel it's not realistic that she would agree to such a harsh working arrangement or that Henrietta would ask her to, but on the other hand, they are all a little 'off' LOL

The voice was her 'mother' huh? Again, I don't know how to feel about that. I do know that I found the drowning unrealistic. Not that she would attempt such a thing, but that they would let their drooling, voice hearing Momma out of the house without anyone following her. Really?! It would have been more believable if she would have slipped out at night or something.

One thing you can say about this book, is that it is full of action. There wasn't a slow part in the whole thing.

I have much more to say, but I don't want this post to get too long. -- Bad habit I have ;o)


message 49: by kisha, The Clean Up Lady (new) - rated it 4 stars

kisha | 3909 comments Mod
Mister Jhonny Ray:

Black redeemed himself and his message about homosexuality. I was getting extremely upset for the homosexual community lol. A tad predictable though. I remember saying while reading, if he doesn't make one of the brothers gay he's getting one star! I wish he did better with developing Mister's character that way the shock factor could've been there and a few clues . Nonetheless I like the message he sent which was homosexual isn't a "sissy" thing. It could be anyone.

Emma Jeans breakdown:
She was a timing bomb waiting to happen. But there had to be a better way then the unrealistic agreement with Henrietta. Who will agree to that and actually follow through? I was satisfied with the mental breakdown and how it happened. I didn't like Henrietta though. She treated Emma Jean as if she didn't have her motivates and secret as well.

Were you satisfied with how Paul's ending was? I felt it was realistic. I liked it.

The last paragraph. Why were Paul and Eva Mae heading to Henrietta?


message 50: by Londa (last edited Oct 24, 2013 11:07AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Londa (londalocs) | 1526 comments I was satisfied I suppose. His beconing a designer was a tad stereotypical, but it'll do.

I believe they were going to Henrietta's. She did own a succesful clothing store and that would bring the whole story full circle.

What did you think about Bartimaeus and Caroline? Did the book ever indicate how they were going to make a living?

I was sort of hoping that Paul and Eva Mae would end up together in the end (I thought he might be bisexual), but at the party it seemed like maybe Black was toying with the idea of Eva Mae and Solomon getting together.

Great book overall! I keep flipping between 3 and 4 stars but I think I might land on 4 because it was just so fun to read.


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