Boxall's 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die discussion
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Which LIST book did you just finish?
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Sarah
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Feb 04, 2017 07:59PM
Finished Story of O: A Novel by Pauline Réage. This was a reread for me. I read it several years ago.
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Nicola wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Just finished Pamela: Or, Virtue Rewarded by Samuel Richardson" ....I think that's the lowest Goodreads rating I've ever seen ...
It is the loweste rating for a 1001-book. The second lowest is Oroonoko at 2.97 and Couples, Passersby at 2.97. These three are the only ones under 3.
BTW The median rating is 3.82 and the top 10% starts at 4.15 (wow!)
I have read 2 of the 3 lowest rated books on the list, yay me lol!!! Maybe I should go for the third? (There are other list books I have read that I personally liked less than these two--I didn't find Pamela bad, just long and long-winded.)
Sarah wrote: "Tasha wrote: "You're in the minority with that one Sarah - I think that's the lowest Goodreads rating I've ever seen!"I enjoyed Evelina as well. But I've read a lot of books in that style and hav..."
Oh I loved Evelina -but that's not really the same sort of novel.
J_BlueFlower wrote: "Nicola wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Just finished Pamela: Or, Virtue Rewarded by Samuel Richardson" ....I think that's the lowest Goodreads rating I've ever seen ...
It is the loweste r..."
I wasn't a huge fan of Oroonoko but it was short and sort of interesting.
Mod
Top rated 1001-books are:The New World 4.75 (but only 4 ratings)
A Ballad for Georg Henig 4.62
Derviš i smrt 4.54
Grande Sertão: Veredas 4.53
The Book of Disquiet 4.51
Ficciones 4.47
The Lord of the Rings (The Lord of the Rings, #1-3) 4.47
Labyrinths: Selected Stories and Other Writings 4.46
Joseph and His Brothers 4.43
The Sea of Fertility 4.42
Three Kingdoms (I, II, III) 4.38
Memory of Fire 4.38
Martin Eden 4.38
The Drowned and the Saved 4.36
The Godfather 4.35
J_BlueFlower wrote: "Top rated 1001-books are:The New World 4.75 (but only 4 ratings)
A Ballad for Georg Henig 4.62
Derviš i smrt 4.54
Grande Sertão: Veredas 4.53
The Book of Disquiet 4.51
Ficciones 4.47
The Lord of..."
I was curious about why The New World only had 4 ratings, so I went searching for it. Turns out I can't find it anywhere. I'm not even sure if it has been translated into English before. Doesn't help that the name of the author, who was an Ethiopian foreign minister, is not consistently spelt in the same way when converted to English. Makes me wonder if the editor had even read this book, or if he just included it in the list for diversity. Has anyone had any luck finding it?
Finised The Bell Jar. I read the first half of it think it was ”just” about depression. But it turns out it was just as much about how unfree women were and gaining freedom in being able to decide what will happen to ones body – at least getting on equal terms with men. This book is very relevant to read for today's Americans. The language is delicate and poetic. 4 stars. BWT notice that the book has recently become a free download on gutenberg.ca
Maggie wrote: "I was curious about why The New World only had 4 ratings, so I went searching for it. Turns out I can't find it anywhere. I'm not even sure if it has been translated into English before. Doesn't help that the name of the author, who was an Ethiopian foreign minister, is not consistently spelt in the same way when converted to English. Makes me wonder if the editor had even read this book, or if he just included it in the list for diversity. Has anyone had any luck finding it? "This book comes up from time to time in discussions about inaccessible books on the list. While there are other books on the list that are unavailable in English, to my knowledge The New World is the only one that has not been translated into any major European language.
Mod
The New World 4.75 (but only 4 ratings)
A Ballad for Georg Henig 4.62
Derviš i smrt 4.54
Grande Sertão: Veredas 4.53
The Book of Disquiet 4.51
Ficciones 4.47..."
So the highest-rated list book I've read is Ficciones, I rated it 4*. The only library copy of A Ballad for Georg Hening in my Salt Lake City area is at the University of Utah library. Maybe I can get my stepdaughter student to check it out for me. No Kindle, and Amazon used copies start at $31 (for 120 pgs).
One thing I have learned in this group is how unusual well the Danish library system works. A Ballad for Georg Henig I simply ordered (online from bibliotek.dk). Two days later I could pick up the Danish translation in my local library a short walk away from where I live. For free. The opening hours btw is 8:00 to 22:00. (That is a lot by Danish standards).
J_BlueFlower wrote: "One thing I have learned in this group is how unusual well the Danish library system works. A Ballad for Georg Henig I simply ordered (online from bibliotek.dk). Two days later I could pick up the ..."So you order a book for your library and they buy it for you to borrow from them? WOW!
My library, Maggie, sort of does the same thing. You send a message of a book you want and if it's newer than 5 years they purchase it, older, they request via interlibrary loan.
Vanity FairPlease go and read it.
Kirsten *Make Margaret Atwood Fiction Again!" wrote: "My library, Maggie, sort of does the same thing. You send a message of a book you want and if it's newer than 5 years they purchase it, older, they request via interlibrary loan."Wow. In the libraries here, we can search the catalogue for all public libraries in the country, and if the book we want is available only at a different library, we can place a reservation for the book at the library of choice, and the book is sent there at a small fee. But I've never heard of them purchasing a book on request, although I've tried to put in requests before!
I've finished Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens. It's a re-read, so no new cross-offs from the list, but it's just as good the second time round.
Mod
The New World 4.75 (but only 4 ratings)
A Ballad for Georg Henig 4.62
Derviš i smrt 4.54
Grande Sertão: Veredas 4.53
The Book of Disquiet 4.51
Ficciones 4.47..."
Derviš i smrt has the English translation title Death and the Dervish. I checked libraries in my Salt Lake City area and could only find A Ballad for Georg Henig at the University of Utah library. Maybe I can get my stepdaughter (student there) to check it our for me, or just sit there a few hrs to read it, it's short. Starts at $31 for used on Amazon and no Kindle. A lot of the more obscure list books from non-English writers, such as "A Ballad..." and New World, are mostly in University libraries in North America I think. Since a lot of the List editors are English professors, they have ready access.
Mod
I was curious about why The New World only had 4 ratings, so I went searching for it. ..."
I found this on a discussion post https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
One commenter said as far as he is aware it has only been translated (from Amharic) into German. If that's the case, I don't think it should have been added to The List. Both my parents had German surnames but we stopped speaking German many generations ago, so no-go for me.
Mod
I was curious about why The New World only had 4 ratings, so I went searching for it. ..."
I found this on a discussion post https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/......"
I just checked Worldcat and I don't think there is a German translation of The New World. One of Heruy's other works has been translated into German but it's a historical work and not the one we are looking for here.
But I've made the experience with works from this list that some of them actually are translated at some point just because they are on the list (e.g. The Taebak Mountains). The New World is a apparently a very short work (ca. 80 pages) so maybe we are lucky with this one as well.
Maggie wrote: "So you order a book for your library and they buy it for you to borrow from them? WOW! "No, I don't think that is possible. But at bibliotek.dk you can brows all the Danish libraries in one database and order from them including archived books (sometimes I am baffled by what books comes from the archive and not from the shelf. I recently ordered Altered Carbon, and it came with a the archive this-and-that sticker on). The diversity is very good. I have read A Day Off (currently 35 ratings on Goodreads).
English is only my second language, and I am unsure here: Does “order” imply buying? I.e. you do not “order” a book from a library, you “place a reservation”?
J_Blueflower, you did not use order incorrectly. "Order" could mean choosing a book from a existing list of books the library owns. I think that would be similar to ordering food from a menu at a restaurant. It could also mean asking the library to purchase. Such are the joys of English and words with multiple meanings.
Finished The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Díaz and I really enjoyed it.
Nicola wrote: "Oh I loved Evelina -but that's not really the same sort of novel."Both are written in the epistolary style and feature a young naive heroine who extols her tales of woe to her parents. Evelina writes to others as well. Virtue is a huge overtone and there's an undercurrent of redemption as well. Drama and hysterics figure greatly. Pamela was published thirty years before Evelina and it's easy to detect the influences in the latter work.
How do you believe they differ?
Sarah wrote: "How do you believe they differ?"Evelina vs Pamela (note that I haven't actually read it so I'm going off of reviews, common reports, prior knowledge of Johnsons other books and parody's of it).
Similarities:
* They are both epistolary novels
* They are written in the 1700's
Differences:
* Pamela is written by a 51 year old man and Evelina by a 26 year old unmarried woman. I'd be very surprised if their writing style was similar.
* Pamela is a book about a virtuous young woman retaining her purity in the face of nearly overwhelming odds and being 'rewarded' for her extreme piety. Evelina is about a sheltered young lady emerging into the delights of society and learning to understand how to get along in it.
* Pamela is a poor unprotected servant attacked by both her master and the woman he sets over her. Evelina is cherished by both her guardian and the two hostess's who take her under their wing.
* Pamela is lower class, Evelina, despite some dispute over her birthright, is well born and heiress to two separate fortunes.
* Pamela is a morality tale, Evelina a comedy of manners.
* Pamela was denounced by many as being practically pornographic, Evelina was never so attacked.
* Pamela has a very low rating on Goodreads indicating that it is likely going to be a specific taste sort of a read. Evelina isn't all that high, but given that it's written when it is it's pretty highly rated. The book is obviously considered more accessible.
* Does Pamela faint? I bet she faints. Evelina doesn't faint.
* Pamela takes place in a limited setting, Evelina flys all around fashionable London and various places in England.
* Pamela's suitor is a would be rapist, Evelina's is a perfect gentleman.
* Pamela marries her would be rapist, Evelina, well I won't say that the guy was actually a would be rapist but he definitely had designs on her virtue. Anyway, she doesn't marry him. He gets his comeuppance and takes himself off.
* Pamela spends 300 pages at the end talking about how she is going to be the perfect submissive wife. Evelina fades out on the clinch like all good romances should.
* Pamela's trials come through constantly having to protect her virtue, Evelina's trials come through constantly being embarrassed. First by her social gaucheness and then through some of her more vulgar relations.
* Pamela remains perfect throughout, Evelina grows in confidence as the novel progresses.
* Pamela is held up a perfect paragon of womanly virtue, Evelina is no doubt virtuous but we aren't told it. We sympathize and laugh at her predicaments rather than marvel at her angelic purity.
* Evelina had some wonderful secondary characters which we spent a lot of time with; they play pranks and generally have lives that don't revolve around Evelina. Do we ever get a break from the Perfect Pamela? Even if other people write letters are they always all about Pamela in some way?
* Evelina made me laugh several times. Would Pamela make me laugh?
There's probably more but I think that's enough really. I can't see the slightest similarity between the two books. Evelina was a lighthearted, really 'fun' read (I'll definitely be reading it again) and from what I've heard about Pamela, 'lighthearted fun' would never be used to describe it.
Virtue is a huge overtone and there's an undercurrent of redemption as well.
I don't agree with this. I didn't notice it anyway. Certainly Evelina had to avoid a certain man who might not have had the most honourable designs upon her but it's a society novel, so learning to identify rakes is all part of the progress she makes. And as for redemption, who was redeemed? Her birth was recognized at the end but that can hardly be classed as her being 'redeemed'. Then the characters who might have perhaps needed to be 'redeemed' weren't - they continued on their merry way just as they were.
Pamela was published thirty years before Evelina and it's easy to detect the influences in the latter work.
Well I haven't read it so I can't say for 100% sure but baring the fact that they are both epistolary novels (very common) and have a heroine as the main character (surely not that unusual), I can't on the face of it see on what you base this claim that it's easy to see the influence. I certainly don't. Totally different types of women, totally different characters, totally different writing, totally different situations, totally different everything as far as I can see.
Both are written in the epistolary style and feature a young naive heroine who extols her tales of woe to her parents.
Evelina certainly wrote a lot about her troubles but they were along the lines of 'Oh My God! How embarrassing! I am NEVER going to able to live this down!' as opposed to the 'Save me, save me! I'm going to be raped and without my maidenhood I shalt verily kill myself with shame. Oh Good God preserve me from losing my virtue. Pray for me my saintly parents' or whoever she was writing to. Rather a difference in subject matter anyway. Also technically Evelina didn't actually have any parents to write to for all of the book seeing as her father didn't recognize her as his and her mother was dead. Her guardian stood in for a father figure though I guess.
Nicola wrote: "Evelina vs Pamela (note that I haven't actually read it..."Forgive me, but I'm somewhat confused why you're debating a book you haven't read. Surely you recognize that its nuances won't be distilled by everyone. I shared a personal opinion based on my experiences with the books in question and several in that genre. I've read a lot of books like this and those dealing with the time period and the English gentry as a whole. There is a commonality of mood and subject that many broach.
The stories needn't be identical for you to recognize that each portrays the challenges young women faced during that age due to finances, status, etc. In respect to epistolary novels, they provide a window into the character's thoughts and emotions through the milieu of experiences they convey. Her willingness to speak is equally as important as what is stated.
I believe you're focusing a great deal on the differences as opposed to the principles that I was referencing. Pamela's issues are a reflection of her social class. If she was wealthy he would have treated her differently. But the redeeming point is that in spite of her status she doesn't permit herself to be victimized. Which would have certainly been an issue for most in her situation at that time period. And that still holds true for many today. That is the point. Her goodness impacts him. Pamela is also a treatise on marriage as well. But that's another discussion.
Your argument regarding Pamela is founded on other people's opinions but I would have preferred to have your insight instead. Perhaps you'll read the book in time. :-)
Mansfield Park - Another re-read. My least favourite of Austen's books but it's grown on me over the years and I have given it a four star rating this time.Cat's Eye - It took a while for me to get fully immersed but it did eventually pull me in. A great work on bullying and the long term effects that it can have on some people. 3 1/2 stars
Woman at Point Zero - Very harsh on the character of men. At least men who live in Egypt. 3 stars.
Sarah wrote: Forgive me, but I'm somewhat confused why you're debating a book you haven't read. "Because you asked me to. I certainly don't care but seeing as you seemed to actually want to know I gave you a response. Looks like you didn't actually want to know.
I've read a lot of books like this and those dealing with the time period and the English gentry as a whole. There is a commonality of mood and subject that many broach.
Gee, me too, however I don't think that whether a person has read one book or one hundred has any bearing on whether they are capable of seeing if two books are similar.
The stories needn't be identical for you to recognize that each portrays the challenges young women faced during that age due to finances, status, etc.
I know they don't need to be identical, I'm saying that baring the fact that they both wear skirts I don't see any true commonality at all. If it's enough that they had challenges regarding finance, status etc to be considered very similar then I think that nearly every older novel which contains a female protagonist would fit that mould. Virtually no novel set anywhere near that time period doesn't contain some reference to social status and finance. That catch basket is so broad as to be meaningless.
I believe you're focusing a great deal on the differences as opposed to the principles that I was referencing.
I addressed everything you said and why I personally didn't think it was correct. If you don't agree then that's your opinion; the previous was mine. If you want to bring up other specific instances of why you think these two books are actually really alike go ahead.
Pamela's issues are a reflection of her social class. If she was wealthy he would have treated her differently. But the redeeming point is that in spite of her status she doesn't permit herself to be victimized.
But what has that got to do with Evelina? Unless you think that Evelina, like Pamela, is victimized and has a redeeming point in that she doesn't let herself be? For that to be an argument for their similarity that would need to apply to Evelina as well.
That is the point. Her goodness impacts him.
And that definitely has nothing in common with Evelina, Lord Orville being a pattern card of perfection already.
Pamela is also a treatise on marriage as well.
Other than the fact that she gets married Evelina isn't the same here either. There are no moral lectures on the responsibilities of wifehood. Which was one of the differences I noted.
Your argument regarding Pamela is founded on other people's opinions but I would have preferred to have your insight instead. Perhaps you'll read the book in time. :-)
I don't have any arguments against Pamela. My 'arguments' are specific points as to why I don't think the two books have anything much in common and those are based on what I know of his style in Clarissa, or, the History of a Young Lady (his style based on this book I reviewed https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...), and excerpts of the book as well as other peoples opinions, literary essays which talk about Pamela and some people who even went to the trouble of writing parody books mocking it. If you don't think those valid then that's another thing we disagree on. Yes, I do pay attention to other peoples views, and more importantly, to their reasons for giving them. A well thought out review is valuable to me which is why I'm a member of Goodreads a book reviewing website.
I don't think anything I've put down is at all inaccurate and I don't need to have read the book to have made the factual comparisons that I did because those specific facts I knew, those I didn't but thought highly likely (such as does Pamela actually faint) I pointed out. If my facts are actually wrong, say so rather than just using it as an excuse to dismiss it without thinking about it. I didn't give my opinion of Pamela as a book because I haven't read it but merely as to it's very well known contents, style and focus, which people are perfectly capable of knowing without having to have read it. When I do get around to reading it I can discuss how it made me feel, what I thought were the good parts and bad parts etc but that's not going to alter the fact that, as a morality tale, it, at first sight, has virtually nothing in common with a book about a social comedy of manners. And, after looking more in depth with what I currently know about it, nothing else that seems similar either. Their focus and literary themes are completely different. Maybe I'm wrong, but so far you haven't given me anything which makes me think so. You probably feel differently of course which is totally fine with me.
I just finished an audiobook of The Forsyte Saga. I really enjoyed it.
Mod
Nicola wrote: "Because you asked me to. I certainly don't care but seeing as you seemed to actually want to know ..."Nicola, you were one of the first people to comment on my status update. And it was your assertion that I was in the minority (based upon Goodreads reviews) of my enjoyment of the book. Whether Goodreads members agree with my opinion is immaterial. I liked the book. Nor do I factor in their reviews in my reading selections. Others may feel differently and they're within their right to do so.
Maybe I'm wrong, but so far you haven't given me anything which makes me think so. You probably feel differently of course which is totally fine with me.
It was never my intention to sway your opinion. I think that's the part you're missing. Whether you like the book or the author isn't up for debate. I simply mentioned my enjoyment of the book. That's all. In respect to points, I can highlight numerous things in the book that I enjoyed. I keep a database of these things for other purposes. But since you haven't read the book that isn't possible. And that's okay. You may do so years from now and find your opinion stands.
A well thought out review is valuable to me which is why I'm a member of Goodreads a book reviewing website.
It's valuable to you Nicola. But there are a myriad of reasons why people become members of this site. And in the grand scheme of things it is a small microcosm of a larger reading populace.
Since this thread is intended for status updates rather than book discussions I'll end my comments here. I look forward to your feedback on the title. It should be interesting. :-)
Tricia wrote: "I just finished an audiobook of The Forsyte Saga. I really enjoyed it."I don't know if I'll get around to that this year. I've been sucked into The Chronicles of Barsetshire series to provide a respite from Proust. But I'll keep the Saga in mind just in case!
I finished Passing by Nella Larsen. A lot to think about packed into a short book, and some left open to reader interpretation. Very good with an unexpected ending. I gave it 4 stars.
Pride and Prejudice. I never meant to join the vast group of people whose favorite book is P&P. Oh well, I had a good run, but this is it now for me. :D
Black DogsNot quite sure why this is on the list. Very little plot, though written beautifully. It had excellent "bones" but little meat IMHO.
On the other hand, I'm nearly done reading An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser and can not figure why it's NOT on the list.
Mod
It definitely DOES belong in the list, imo.
Mod
Thanks for the heads-up on this one, looks interesting. Not in my local libraries though.
Mod
Thanks for the heads-up on this one, looks interesting. Not in my local libraries..."
If you don't mind reading e-books it is available to borrow for free on OpenLibrary.com.
Mod
If you don't mind reading e-books it is available to borrow for free on OpenLibrary.com ..."
I see it's available in used paperback for 1 cent + shipping on Amazon, so $4. I don't care to read books on computer screen, just paper or Kindle.
Just finished Nineteen Eighty-four by George Orwell. I feel that this would have worked well as an essay not so much a novel.
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