Ruin and Rising
discussion
Should the Darkling & Alina be endgame?
I'm very curious to know what's the first thing the Darkling would notice when he entered his bedroom again after he returned to the Little Palace.When Alina entered his room for the first time, she noticed the shape of his head on the pillow, which somehow strikes me as one of the sweetest, saddest, most intimate scenes in the book.
I'm pretty sure he did something similarly heart-wrenching. But I think we will never know.
And for my last random post, I think the Darkling might be able to sense/feel emotions. There are many instances where the Darkling seems to "read Alina's mind" but I think it's her emotions. (I also wonder if Alina has the same power.) He also has the ability to calm others with his touch.
Examples
A little tremor quaked through me. He watched me, his half smile fading.
...
The moment his lips met mine, the connection between us opened and I felt his power flood through me. I could feel how much he wanted me: but behind that desire, I could feel something else, something that felt like anger.
...
"Oh," I said, trying to hide my disappointment.
He stopped abruptly. "I don't think you're useless, Alina."
...
I had the disquieting feeling that I was being studied.
...
He stood before me, a dark rider, cloaked in black, his features in shadow. The image of the severed man loomed up in my mind, and my stomach turned.
As if he'd read my thoughts, he repeated, "I did what I had to, Alina."
...
"The tracker is an orphan, too?"
I drew in a sharp breath. Was mind reading another one of his powers?
...
"Back to pretending to be less thank you are, I see. The sham doesn't suit you."
A twinge of unease passed through me. Hadn't I had a similar thought just minutes ago?
...
"I know what you feel when you're with the tracker," he said.
"I doubt that."
He gave a dismissive wave. "No, not the absurd pining you've yet to outgrow. I know the truth in your heart. The loneliness. The growing knowledge of your own difference. The ache of it."
...
"You were wrong." My voice was steady, but doubt rustled in my heart.
The Darkling shook his head. "You cannot lie to me."
IDK, maybe he's just really good at reading people. But I just thought there were a whole lot of instances where the Darkling seemed to have sensed emotions.
Cari wrote: "Natalia wrote: "I don't have a twitter account yet. If possible, can you put this her tweet down here?And lets' make it clear - Mal (possibly) and Firebird are two different amplifiers, right? I j..."
Mal should be the Human Amplifier, because who else is human with an inexplainable gift, and why else would Alina have a jolt sent through her body whenever Mal holds her wrist?
I don't think it's Alina that's the Amplifier. I think it's Mal, and I agree I found it interesting how every time one of Morozova's mythical creatures popped up, they shared a kiss and they touched right before.
@Vindictive- I know. You're right. Perhaps my 2 examples have to do with something else entirely.If human amplifiers cannot be used alive, then it makes sense we haven't seen his amplifiers abilities yet. I'm just in denial. I don't want anyone to die.
So who's going to be the martyr in the end, Mal or the Darkling? Either way it'll break Alina's heart.
WinterRose wrote: "And for my last random post, I think the Darkling might be able to sense/feel emotions. There are many instances where the Darkling seems to "read Alina's mind" but I think it's her emotions. (I ..."
He must be good at reading people (because he's been around for so long) but I think you might be on to something. Didn't Ivan told Alina once the Darkling had many powers? I wonder if in R&R when we are going to get more information on that.
Do you think he can only read Alina's mind/emotions because of their connection, or is it something he can do in general?
I personally think he's just really good at reading people. I'm really curious about this connection that Alina will learn about between her and the Darkling - like maybe before they were both born something was created (a prophet or whatever) that said only one Darkling (or whatever his powers would be called) and one sun summoner would be born and they would be connected somehow...I really don't know where I'm going with this but it would be interesting especially since she is the only known sun summoner and if Baghra is right then he's the only one of his kind too so why is that? This may have been touched on but I can't remember. I just find the whole darkness vs light and one cannot exist without the other thing interesting and I hope it's touched on more.
With the way the Darkling talks about there is no other way than for Alina to have the amplifiers, I do wonder if there was a prophecy of sorts. There's some reason we don't know about with why he's so set on her having them. In Siege and Storm, when Alina asks if the second amplifier is for some other girl, the Darkling replies: "Someone less stubborn? Less selfish? Less hungry for the life of a mouse? Believe me, I wish I could."
Also, "They were meant to be used together."
"Our fates are entwined now, Alina. And there's nothing either of us can do about that."
What if something will happen to Alina if she DOESN'T use all of them? What if she can't use only one or two? And what if her fate will be his fate? Like if she dies, he dies.
If that is the case, that if the Darkling dies so will Alina or if Alina dies so will the Darkling, that'd be a great mechanism for the two of them to work together and rule as one.So lets say the Darkling decides to go on a psychotic rampage, Alina could always threaten to kill herself to make him calm down and stop. They could even each other out since one can't live without the other.
The more and more I think about it, the more I think this is true in that they were meant to exist together to balance one another out. I was just considering the Darkling's symbol. He could have chosen something that is exclusive to the night or darkness, but he chose an eclipse, which also has to do with the sun. I find that very interesting.
The truth is that I had acceptes that as a fact until now that you point it out. Why does she need all 3? She keeps saying it is to defeat the Darkling but considering the Darkling himself was the one with this idea of getting all the amplifiers, one has to wonder... What is it that they're meant to do together? (Both the 3 amplifiers, and Alina and the Darkling.)And I don't really think it has to do with the Fold either. I mean, they've both been there and it didn't seem the Darkling had any intention of destroying it.
Now that Alina pities the volchra, I doubt she will destroy the Fold, so whatever it is they're both going to do is something new we haven't probably seen yet.
You are spot on with the eclipse as well. It's kind of sad if you consider an eclipse is, though, something temporary... while the sun is permanent. So I hope that's not a foreshadowing that his rule was meant to be in place until a Sun Summoner entered the picture.
Aw now I'm sad about the eclipse, haha.Yeah I definitely think it has to be all 3 amplifiers or none at all or something will happen. I wonder if Alina will eventually go to the Darkling for help with finding the fire bird, ironically. I just have a feeling they are going to join forces.
I finally finished reading everything, S&B, S&S, the folktales and "The Tailor".I think what surprised me the most was that I had forgotten many details of S&S. It was such a fast paced-book that frankly that I think I got into the "OMG-what-happens-next"-mode and re-reading it was an eye opener.
If R&R is like that as well, I'll probably have the same experience: reading to know what happens and then re-reading to get the finer details.
Cari wrote: "I think what surprised me the most was that I had forgotten many details of S&S. It was such a fast paced-book that frankly that I think I got into the "OMG-what-happens-next"-mode and re-reading it was an eye opener."I'm currently rereading S&B and I get you completely. The first time around I just inhaled the book, but this time I read it slowly making many notes and bookmarks as I go.
Just one of my random thoughts: do you think that every child, rich and poor, was tested on the Darkling's order for Grisha abilities in search of the Sun Summoner in the first place. You know, Cinderella-style, to see who fits the crystal shoe. Because he knew she must exist, not just assumed that.
So here's a bit of what I got from my re-reading, in terms of what I expect to see in R&R. Please beware the following post contains ***SPOILERS*** for Siege and Storm.
Nikolai
I've been thinking a lot about this character, because of a conversation with WinterRose. From my reading, I believe he might be in love with Alina. This is how I interpret why he refuses to kiss her when he realizes she's using him as a rebound. When they go to the Little Palace, in S&S, Alina is very lonely. While she and Mal start drifting apart, Nikolai and Alina become really good friends. It's obvious that for him becoming king is a clear goal and Alina would help him attain this goal. But I think as time goes by, he starts liking her more and more. I'm not entirely sure what this means except that to me this character not only is alive but will play a big role in R&R. Nikolai is the only "Lantsov" alive who can claim the throne. With Vasili dead and the old king dying, Nikolai's claim is only disputed by the Darkling's rule. So I imagine he will face the Darkling and try to find allies to defeat him. I wonder if the only possible allies are the Apparat and the "Saint Army". I also noticed that as Nikolai's feelings for Alina grow, so do her feelings for him. She quotes his lessons more and more, and keeps referring to him. Even at the very end of the book she dreams of him and his flying boat. Personally, I don't see a ship between them but who knows, at the end of the "Too-clever Fox" the fox ends up with his friend. The only thing we can be sure of is that Bardugo loves to take the road we least expect.
Mal
It is clear to me at this point that Mal is no ordinary human. There are hints all over S&S but what really convinced me was the "fight club" scene. The grisha threw Mal against a ceiling and then let him plummet to the ground. Mal was badly hurt but kept on fighting. To Alina's horror, Tamar mentioned she had seen him take much worse. I mean... what?!
I'm just intrigued as to why Alina does not give more thought to this and I wonder if Mal himself realizes it. He insists that he's nothing but a commoner and I wonder if he's in denial. I know that he's trying to prove himself and his behavior is a way of coping with his crumbling relationship with Alina, but I'm baffled he doesn't realize he's not all that common.
I also have to say I was wrong about not seeing the sizzle in his relationship with Alina. They do share some hot moments in S&S, like Vindictive had pointed out. I'm sure now that Alina, at least in S&S, felt passionate love for Mal and him for her. At the end of S&S he seems devoted to her but afraid of her. I'm not sure if that ship will sail either.
Clearly Mal's role in R&R will be huge because his mystery will be finally revealed. Like most people believe, I think it is quite possible that he's the human amplifier that's been hinted at. Twice in the book when he touches her bare wrist, Alina feels some sort of energy. It frightens me a little to think her wrist might be sort of hungry for a fetter made of Mal's bones. He will surely give his life for her because he loves her and because he's so broken-hearted to see how things have fallen apart beyond repair. Mal is a hero and, as Alina said at some point, heroes die in the end. (As do saints.)
The Darkling
Ah Darkling, so creepy in S&S, with some unexpected moments of tenderness. I have to say that I'm a little put off by his "hitting below the belt" tactics. One thing that really surprised me was to realize, at the end of S&S, that the whole "if Alina hadn't left everything would be different" scenario that people are always citing comes from the Darkling himself. He gives Alina a major guilt trip when he last speaks with her. However, I believe he's wrong for the same reason I said before: Even if Alina had stayed with him at the beginning, she would have been horrified at killing those innocent people in Novokribirsk and I think the story would repeat itself from there. Yes, in his ancient wisdom he knows there are necessary evils and to him clearly that was one: kill a few to spare the many. But Alina is not an ancient being and there is no way she would have been able to be so cold-hearted about it.
That said, I think the Darkling is in love with Alina. Otherwise, he would have never been so vulnerable as he was in his last encounter. He's got many valid points: they are the only ones of their kind, he understands what her new-found power is doing to her (the dwindling of her humanity), so on and so forth.
However, I'm not really sure what his plan is and I'm afraid his new use of magic may eventually turn him into some kind of weird creature, much to the dismay of his fans. As a side note, there is a moment in S&S when Alina says she sees him everyday and has grown used to him. It would have been great to see those scenes. I mean, Alina says she's even seeing the Darkling at her meetings in the war room. That is not trivial considering all the strategy being discussed directly concerned the Darkling: was Alina being an unsuspecting spy for him? Or did he even care about that? How can she say that and we're not able to see any of those scenes?! *bangs head against the wall* Perhaps that will be included one day on the Darkling's POV story... hopefully.
Alina
If the end of the book foreshadows what's going to happen in R&R, I'm a little pessimistic. At the end of S&S, even after all their ordeal, Alina feels further away from Mal than before. And they were in bad shape before... so it's kind of shocking to know she can feel even more apart from him. Aren't crisis like this supposed to bring people together?! I do think that, of course, eventually she'll find her powers again and regain her beauty (superficial as that is, somehow I think people would not be able to get past it if she didn't). I'm not sure Alina will be much for shipping anyone, though, if she keeps in the same mindset that she's at the end of S&S. It does seem like she has found her purpose and she clearly says she's not going to be anyone's queen. So I guess that also rules out Nikolai and the Darkling, right? I wonder if what she's seen is that somehow she has to sacrifice herself to finally defeat the Darkling. Or, if on the contrary, she's decided that she'll be her own queen, a power in her own right. Also, worrisome is the fact that she sort of liked the use of magic, even if it almost killed her. So I think that while there might certainly be romance in R&R, it will be perhaps the guys who will have all the feelz while she may have her own secret agenda.
/endwalloftext
Natalia wrote: "Cari wrote: "I think what surprised me the most was that I had forgotten many details of S&S. It was such a fast paced-book that frankly that I think I got into the "OMG-what-happens-next"-mode an..."OMG... what a good observation... It never even occur to me but you might be on to something. The Darkling's been waiting for her for centuries, right? I'm sure he wasn't being exactly passive about it.
@ CariOh I think there will be hot and heavy scenes with ALL three of the guys at least once. Too much unresolved tension with Nikolai and the Darkling to never touch again. Plus, this has been confirmed:
The Darkling gently folded me in his arms. He pressed a kiss to the top of my hair. “I will strip away all that you know, all that you love, until you have no other shelter but me.”
Loooordy.
Based on the Kirkus review of R&R, I think Nikolai might be more of a contender to end up with Alina than I originally thought.
"It frightens me a little to think her wrist might be sort of hungry for a fetter made of Mal's bones."
Let's just imagine Alina ends up alone on the throne, a powerful queen, with bone from Mal AND bone from the Darkling as amplifiers. Lol that would be such a dark ending but I would love it for being so bold. (I know YA is more happily ever after in their endings but hey, why not.)
I really do hope Alina does not give up her want for power. I'm kind of over wanting power always being associated with villains. I mean look at Dany from GoT. She wants the throne, wants power, and is no villain. Idk, I just don't think Alina is "bad" for wanting to be powerful.
@ Natalia. That is an EXCELLENT theory.
WinterRose wrote: "@ CariOh I think there will be hot and heavy scenes with ALL three of the guys at least once. Too much unresolved tension with Nikolai and the Darkling to never touch again. Plus, this has been c..."
Well, that quote really has my mind spinning. I mean, context please?! It could be one of his creepy visitation moments or they could actually be together somewhere sharing a moment... In the S&S epilogue "After" his soldiers are looking for her frantically. I was thinking the other day if it may be not out of vengeance but worry: He knows she will not do well underground without sunlight.
Well, Nikolai might very well be the dark horse in this race. Perhaps he sort of combines the best qualities in the Darkling and Mal. I have to say it would be kind of odd, but who knows... The author I think said somewhere she intended to kill him at some point and then changed her mind.
WinterRose wrote: "@ CariLet's just imagine Alina ends up alone on the throne, a powerful queen, with bone from Mal AND bone from the Darkling as amplifiers. Lol that would be such a dark ending but I would love it for being so bold. (I know YA is more happily ever after in their endings but hey, why not.)"
I think at this point anything could happen. I wonder if after the Divergent series, more-realistic or "unhappy" endings will become more common despite all the uproar. (Actually, Bardugo and the author of that series will be "in conversation" as part of an event in LA.)
Someone made this art post on tumblr yesterday and Leigh Bardugo said it gave her "chills"
http://cassandrajp.tumblr.com/post/81...
Is that code for foreshadowing? Perhaps at the last minute the Darkling realizes Alina will never relent (or is actually moved by her wailing and despair at Mal's imminent death) and decides to take Mal's place as Alina new bone fetter/bracelet?
I really want her to end up powerful and happy. If it will all turn into a carnage in the end, I hope by then she'll be this beautiful and terrible being, somewhat removed from things so she doesn't have to suffer. I don't know, I guess I want her to have it all but I don't think that's the way it will go.
Guys, I really need to catch up with our discussion, I'll be commenting more later, but I just couldn't not respond to Cari's latest post: no, no and NO! I hope this won't happen! Screw such "realistic" endings, I want the Darkling to be happy too! Him even more than anyone else in this book.Sorry for this outburst, lol ;)
@ Cari. I find Alina ending up beautiful and terrible more satisfying for this series than say, if she ended up in a cottage in the woods. She's powerful and I hope she doesn't lose that. It would be REALLY interesting if the next Grisha series featured Alina as an antagonist. I don't want her to suppress herself or her powers for Mal anymore, or anyone for the matter. I want her to be able to be herself, and that to me includes the light and the dark within.@ Natalia. Haha you're not alone. I actually care more about the Darkling's ending than I do anyone else's. He's the most interesting to me and what keeps me engaged. S&S dragged a bit for my taste and I think part of that was because he was missing.
Sometimes it bothers me how much other characters have to sacrifice and what they have to lose/give up so the "hero" or "heroine" gets a HEA.
I might be alone in this, but the Darkling isn't the villain to me and doesn't have to die "to be redeemed." While I don't agree with all his methods, I feel like he's the only person who has any clue what's been happening in the countries and knows what needs to be done. He's been around for hundreds of years. I'm not saying he knows what's best for Ravka, but Alina sure as heck couldn't. She's 16 years old for crying out loud. lol
Again, a round table discussion would help greatly. Alina makes too many decisions based on assumptions. I feel like so much could be avoided if they would just TALK.
The thing that annoys me about Alina is that she never attempts to meet the Darkling halfway. Like in the end of S&S, when the Darkling said he wanted to speak to her at the end. All she had to do was go with him and talk to him but no, she goes ahead and tries to kill him! Another thing that's annoying me is the fact we don't know how the Darkling feels about Alina. Weather he's in love with her or weather he's in love with her power. Or both.
Natalia wrote: "Guys, I really need to catch up with our discussion, I'll be commenting more later, but I just couldn't not respond to Cari's latest post: no, no and NO! I hope this won't happen! Screw such "reali..."I hear you. I don't want it to happen either. Just to consider it, makes me want to curl up with a bottle of kvas... or a pint of ice cream, whichever comes first.
My tangle of feelz has been solved: I realized that while I want Mal for Alina, I want the Darkling for myself! :))
I feel like I'm going to need a support group for R&R.
Cari wrote: "I feel like I'm going to need a support group for R&R. "Since I assume we are all here such hardcore fans who are going to read R&R as soon as it comes out, let's do a buddy read and be each other's support group. Maybe more people will join later :)
@Winter and Summer :)I agree that Alina should try to talk to the Darkling, but I think she had not been in a position to do that until now. She has been too afraid of him and she did not know the extent of her power. It is hard to consider talking with someone when you feel like they're so above and beyond you.
In the last scene of S&S, I think it's also safe to assume that after seeing Genya, Alina sort of came undone. At least I am under that impression.
It's not easy to talk with someone when you're constantly under a "fight or flight" impulse. Some of the teaser quotes from R&R give me hope that somehow they're past that, at some point in the book.
Natalia wrote: "Cari wrote: "I feel like I'm going to need a support group for R&R. "Since I assume we are all here such hardcore fans who are going to read R&R as soon as it comes out, let's do a buddy read and..."
I'd really like that! I'd never done it before though, so you'll have to walk me through the details.
I'd like to try, as much as possible, to avoid reading super fast just to know what happens and missing all the details.
(Although I am also open to a "reading marathon" and then re-read for details.)
Should we open a new thread for when R&R comes out called "Reading Ruing & Rising" where we all read-along and discuss chapters in detail and all fan girl together?
SummerBlue wrote: "Should we open a new thread for when R&R comes out called "Reading Ruing & Rising" where we all read-along and discuss chapters in detail and all fan girl together?"Either that or we can create a group for this read. I love the idea of reading slowly and discussing every little piece.
Cari wrote: "So here's a bit of what I got from my re-reading, in terms of what I expect to see in R&R. Please beware the following post contains ***SPOILERS*** for Siege and Storm.
Nikolai
I've been thinkin..."
Nikolai
I never really considered Nikolai as a contender for Alina's affections.
I will be rereading S&S later in April and I'll be sure to pay attention to this relationship. But the first time around I got the impression that Nikolai wasn't serious about Alina and I didn't see any romantic chemistry between them. Actually, it kind of annoyed me that everyone in their reviews was shipping Alina with him, because why can't a handsome guy just be a girl's friend and not a love interest? They can be allies, friends and confidants instead. Not all guys have to fall in love with the heroine. But this is my personal opinion and I get others may see it differently, I just didn't see any reason to ship them.
Mal
I completely agree with the theory that Mal is no ordinary human. I just wonder why it is only in S&S that Alina felt some kind of energy from him (when he touched her wrist) and not before? If Mal was an amplifier, then that fact should have been discovered by the Grisha examiners when he was a little boy, shouldn't it? And Alina should have felt at least something whenever they touched.
I'm also going to pay more attention to how Alina feels about Mal in both books, especially in S&S. But from what I remember I didn't get much chemistry from them either. Or was it wishful thinking on my part. I will highlight all the excerpts and use them as proof if necessary.
Apparat
The more I think of his role, the more I wonder if you guys were onto something about him being the real villain.
The first time Alina encounters him, she is all creeped out
«As the King and the Darkling stepped away to talk, the priest drifted forward. “A miracle indeed,” he said, staring at me with a disturbing intensity. His eyes were so brown they were almost black, and he smelled faintly of mildew and incense. Like a tomb, I thought with a shiver. I was grateful when he slithered away to join the King.»
And several more times throughout the book she repeated how Apparat smelled, how his teeth were crooked and his eyes were wild. Did you ever see a "good" character described that way?
And when he offered this book about saints to her, she thought «How could someone offering you a present sound so creepy?»
And how at some point Ivan told the Darkling that "Apparat is getting impatient". About what, I wonder? Perhaps he had some dealings with the Darkling we know nothing about.
Also «The Darkling had vanished, but the Apparat seemed to be everywhere. He lurked in hallways and by the path to the lake. I thought he might be trying to trap me alone again, but I didn’t want to listen to him rant about faith and suffering. I was careful never to let him catch me by myself.»
Aaand finally «I must speak with you! Things are moving far more quickly than—»
What did Apparat mean by this? The stag being found? If so, how did he know about that? How did Baghra? It turns out everyone is spying on everyone else in this book.
Anyway, I don't trust Apparat at all.
A little Darkling/Alina snippet for the holidays :)“Why waste my anger on you when the fault is mine? I should have anticipated another betrayal from you, one more mad grasp at some kind of childish ideal. But I seem to be a victim of my own wishes where you are concerned.” His expression hardened. “What have you come here for, Alina?”
I answered him honestly. “I wanted to see you.”
What do you guys think? Maybe a Darkling and Alina confirmation. I also think I read somewhere, that someone asked Leigh Bardugo if the couple was Darkling X Alina and she replied with something like she was starting to think of the name as Ruin and Racy. Just a little extra info if you guys didn't know. Sorry if you already talked about it.
@ Natalia. I wondered about Ivan's line too. There's definitely something going on there we don't know."Not all guys have to fall in love with the heroine."
AGREED. I yearn for more platonic boy/girl relationships in books. Or girl/girl or even boy/boy. Platonic friendships are dying these days it seems like with people shipping any two characters who so much as breath a word to one another.
(And really, Alina isn't so interesting that all these guys should fall for her. It's not very believable.)
"I'm also going to pay more attention to how Alina feels about Mal in both books, especially in S&S. But from what I remember I didn't get much chemistry from them either."
You know I think chemistry is subjective and that's what makes it hard to debate such things as "these two characters have/don't have chemistry." Mal and Alina didn't do anything for me personally. I didn't like them together and thought they'd be better off apart. But that's just me.
"I also think I read somewhere, that someone asked Leigh Bardugo if the couple was Darkling X Alina and she replied with something like she was starting to think of the name as Ruin and Racy."
Yeah it was on Twitter. :P Someone told Leigh they wish to read a love scene between Alina and the Darkling, and her reply was: "all I can say is that I've started to call it Ruin and Racy." But I think it's a given that Alina will kiss the Darkling, Mal, and probably even Nikolai at some point in the book.
Natalia wrote: "Cari wrote: "WinterRose wrote: ""Know that I loved you. Know that it was not enough."That quote really makes me sad because it sounds like last words, for some reason. You know, like someone is ab..."
I have a feeling that it is Mal's last words. Don't find this weird but when I read that quote I thought of Mal dieing and protecting Alina, but as Mal died he thought about the first time he saw Alina with the Darkling in Little Palace then said this.
Natalia wrote: Please beware the following post contains ***SPOILERS*** for Siege and Storm.Nikolai
I've..."
Well, I was also surprised to see Nikolai becoming so important but I see the logic behind what's going on. Once Alina arrives to the Little Palace, he's easily the person with whom she spends the most time.
They're both lonely and Alina is the only person with whom Nikolai can be a bit more himself. From Alina's standpoint, Nikolai comes to occupy that "best friend" place that Mal leaves vacant as their relationship starts to deteriorate. Nikolai also provides political advise and the kind of insight that Alina admires in the Darkling.
So, as I see it, Alina, perhaps unwillingly, sees in Nikolai some of the traits she likes in Mal and the Darkling. It's good to notice that in comparison, he seems to be much less complicated and easy to be with.
I think both Alina and Nikolai know that there's much to be gained on his part from this friendship but perhaps that doesn't mean their friendship isn't real.
I think even irl sometimes friendship and romantic feelings become tangled. Alina and Nikolai might be confused or just curious to see what is it they feel towards each other... (That is if we leave aside the fact that it would be useful for Nikolai to have Alina by his side.)
For sure Alina doesn't admit to anything, but you'll notice that she's often referencing him (ie. mentioning him when he's not around).
Also, Nikolai clearly starts caring for her more than he had anticipated. The pivotal scene in that regard is when he refuses to kiss her.
I agree Cari. In some ways, Nikolai is the middle between Mal and the Darkling. While Alina slips away from Mal, she does get closer to Nikolai who does seem to fill that spot. No matter what his original intentions were (and really, she could use him as much as he could use her), it's clear he does have feelings for her at this point. And I think he's grown on her too. Doesn't she kind of admit that she wanted to be kissed by him?A relationship can be sought out for "wrong reasons" but that doesn't mean it can't grow into something real. I think this applies for Alina/Nikolai and the Darkling/Alina.
What I do like about Nikolai and Alina is that they both recognize what crappy situations they're in and use their status's to their advantage.
WinterRose wrote: "But I think it's a given that Alina will kiss the Darkling, Mal, and probably even Nikolai at some point in the book."Hahaha, that comment made my morning :)
Lmao we KNOW it's gonna happen. :P
WinterRose wrote: AGREED. I yearn for more platonic boy..."My favorite platonic friendship is Jamie and Brienne in "Game of thrones." Harry and Hermione is my second favorite :)
There are some strong girl friendships that I've read recently: Karou and Zuzanna from Daughter of smoke and bone. Also Kami and Angela in the Lynburn Legacy series.
Also, I really like Genya and Alina. It's not a perfect friendship but I like it even more for that.
WinterRose wrote: "A relationship can be sought out for "wrong reasons" but that doesn't mean it can't grow into something real. I think this applies for Alina/Nikolai and the Darkling/Alina.What I do like about Nikolai and Alina is that they both recognize what crappy situations they're in and use their status's to their advantage."
I completely agree. I think Nikolai's humor is what has won over so many people... perhaps including Alina.
Yes, I remember the part when she says she wants to kiss him.
I hope your prediction is true and there's plenty of smooching in R&R XD
Guuuyyyssss. There is a special edition of R&R from Barnes and Noble that features a Darkling prequel story.asjfkajf;smladkmvsdkv
I'm shocked. I don't know what to make of it. I figured we'd have to wait well after R&R before we got something Darkling. If he dies in R&R I have a feeling it will make the prequel so much more painful.
OMG... Whaaat? *tries to unscramble her brains* It is great to have that but...1. What does it actually mean? I mean a prequel story as in part of another book... Like a preview or we have been thinking of a book when all it ever was... Was a single Darkling POV story?
2. I have that awful feeling too: Darkling dies heroically and then we're all allowed to know him even a bit better to feel all the worse. Talk about ruin... Could the author be so cruel?????
I shy away from that way of thinking. If the Darkling dies in R&R, I'm going to be very disappointed. Not to mention this will become yet another preachy story about good vs evil.
Will this Darkling prequel be on the Kindle addition of R&R?
I honestly hate pre-ordering because it doesn't always arrive on release day. I wonder if it will be available in the store. Usually they are. Maybe I'll pre-order and if it's not here I'll go to B&N and read it there, haha.@ Natalia. I will be disappointed too, especially since the Darkling isn't evil and Alina certainly isn't all good. Honestly I feel like he's the only person with some sense.
I'm sort of with Cari though that I have a feeling a prequel in the final book sort of eludes to a possible death. Or maybe he "dies" in R&R (or we're lead to believe he does) but the prequel reveals something that shows us he really isn't dead/can't die. Like being cursed to be re-born after he dies or something.
EDIT: Okay this is what Leigh posted on tumblr:
"Long before he became the Darkling, he was just a boy with an extraordinary gift…
I’ve been wanting to tell part of the Darkling’s story for a very long time, so I hope that you’ll enjoy getting a glimpse into his past.
Here are some details and answers to the questions I’ve been getting:
The story is called “Demon in the Wood.”
It’s about 30 pages long, twice as long as “The Too-Clever Fox.”
It a story from the Darkling’s youth and Ravka’s early days.
It will not be available in the ebook edition. For now, my understanding is that this is a Barnes & Noble hardcover exclusive."
Demon in the Wood. Possibly he's a demon or cursed by one? Interesting that she says "a boy with an extraordinary gift." That wording is different than what Baghra said.
Thanks for all that good info WinterRose!! <33Also, Natalia has gotten me thinking: I refuse to give in to my own bad feelings about it. It could be a very blissful form of denial, but let's consider for a moment here what we know so far.
I think it was you guys who pointed this out before but it is so true. The Darkling 'has "died" many times already. With everyone knowing how powerful he is, I'm sure his deaths had to be pretty convincing and spectacular. How can we know that if he "dies" now it is for real? Perhaps he'll decide to remove himself from the picture for a time.
I'm all for Winter's take on it: perhaps something awful will happen in R&R, but the story will help us see it in a different, hopefully more positive light.
As I understand this, "Demon in the Wood" may not the Darkling's POV story that Bardugo has hinted at before... What do you guys think? If that is not his story and another book may be in the future... Because now I'm worried that this story is all we may get regarding Darkling's POV but that can't be, right?
Bardugo hinted or said that she was working on a new grisha story but focusing on the other countries. I think she mentioned that familiar characters would appear but I don't know why I believe she meant characters other than the main ones in this series.
Anyway, a Darkling cameo wouldn't hurt ;p
Also, my last scrape of hope: Bardugo has always said nothing in Ravka is what it seems. So, if the Darkling died, it could very well not be what it seems?
/doesntmakesensebutohwell
Leigh also said the Darkling story is a "glimpse" at his past and youth. I can't imagine all we ever get is a glimpse. My hunch is this Demon in the Wood revolves around how he gained the title of the Darkling or that pivotal moment when his plans began. 30 pages is pretty lengthy. I will probably have to read this first..I'm not sure I can resist, haha.@ Cari, that's what I think regarding his death. I think we might be lead to believe he dies, but he really just disappears. "Darkness never dies" has been a repeated theme. (And we all know the dark needs the light and the light needs the dark. They go hand in hand.)
Her tags on tumblr also said: "I'm crazy excited for people to read this, like a lot, I want to discuss."
Maybe he doesn't die. I mean I would be sad/feel guilty discussing a prequel over a character that I knew was going to die. If that makes sense, lol.
Also, upon re-reading S&S, I didn't really catch it or pay much attention before. We see Alina grow a little soft, for lack of a better word, toward the volcra. Then she says the nothings were her monsters, and the Darkling is her monster too. But at the end she refers to them as her children. That's very interesting to me.
WinterRose wrote: "Her tags on tumblr also said: "I'm crazy excited for people to read this, like a lot, I want to discuss."..."
Today I finished a series and it got me thinking... Most of the organized big re-reads have the author do QnA's before the final installment is released. The problem with that is, well, how are you to discuss the final book with the author or at least ask questions, if the final book has not come out yet?
I mean, by way of example, here I am with many, many questions and I think Laini Taylor is done with QnA's now. She's currently touring. And even if you could meet the author at an event, I think online discussions are far better. You can't actually make spoiler questions out loud at a place where people may have just purchased the book. You know?
If this happens with R&R, I'm going to have a heart attack because the plot is so much more complicated and we have so many good questions... and will have TONS more when we start reading. Will they just go unanswered?
I'm hoping she answers many questions on Tumblr like Cassandra Clare did. Clare answered MANY. But yeah, I don't see how she can answer anything about the Darkling especially until after R&R.
Knowing the secretive Ms. Bardugo, she probably wouldn't answer a lot of her questions straightforward or clear. She'd keep teasing us even if R&R was a day away :) You guys have so many great points that make me more impatient for R&R and the Darkling's story.@ Cari, I'm really curious how he's managed to fool centuries of Ravkans with "faked countless deaths" too. And because Alina mentions in S&S that he's probably had more than just Genya as a Tailor to convince people that there's been generations of different Darklings, it makes me wonder how much we know about him is true. Do we even know if this is his true appearance? I think Genya has done some work that Alina and us thought was real. She describes him of having dark hair, grey eyes, and a sharp jaw, but how much of this is legit? And if it is, what are the chances of him keeping another Tailor around for nothing more than just to infiltrate the King and Queen? Or even the odds he'd choose this generation to wear his real face?
I have a theory that the nichevo'ya aren't entirely draining him. Sure it would probably take a lot of life energy to give some, extremely powerful or not, but I think that some of the damage is actually the eradicating of his changed face. Maybe Tailors' abilities last longer on more powerful Grisha, idk. But Alina says that his powers don't make him look so much weaker, only makes his features sharper and more beautiful. Wait, Genya was supposed to dim down his attractiveness? Maybe so. If that's the case, I want to know if there's going to be some revelation on this while we learn about his past.
@Abigayle- Wait... so you think the Darkling may be really unattractive, if not for the work of tailors?!That's an interesting thought. In all truth, I never consider that Genya might be doing work on him, though. Isn't the idea that using their powers make Grisha beautiful/strong/healthy/etc? I always assumed that he was incredibly beautiful, in spite of being ancient, simply because he was really powerful.
But who knows, that would be a plot twist to certainly RUIN the readers: In reality, the Darkling looks like...
KEITH RICHARDS!! ;))
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He totally thought he was getting lucky that night. I imagine that he must have been anxious to see her the next day and see why she didn't open the door... so probably Ivan himself was knocking her door at the crack of dawn to tell her to go see the Darkling. And you know, that door must have been shattered to smithereens shortly thereafter. :))