Zombies! discussion
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The First Days
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October Group Read #2: The First Days
Hi Teresa,It's more that Katie is "hands on" with Jenni.
I don't have the book in front of me ATM but as I recall she's letting Travis believe that she's going after Jenni romantically speaking.
If I had the book handy I'd quote where she tells Travis that Juan isn't a threat.
And what's up with the whole, I'm not a lesbian. I'm bisexual. Chat with the 15 year old...I forget his name right now but Jenni stepson.
Talk about over-sharing.
What's with the freak out of jenni that Katie left her behind? I mean fainting?! Drama much?
When Kate is gone with Travis at Ralph and Merit
Jenni is spending more time without Katie then she did with Katie.
Juan and the construction crew people have provided more food and protection then Katie did. Yet we keep hearing how safe Katie is.... major disconnect.
Travis is going out of his way to look over Katie. Yet she only acknowledges this once. For the most part her"great" connection to Travis is one sided.
Okay, ladies...it's that time again! Yep! QUESTIONS!!!! YAAY!!!#1. Who is your favorite character so far, and why?
#2. How do the chapter 'breakdowns' affect the story for you? (i.e., the numbered sections within each chapter) Have you noticed that each section seems to alternate between Katie's & Jenni's perspectives? Do you think the story would be better if we got, say, one little section of Nerit's perspective? (Or Ralph's, Travis's, etc.?) If you COULD get one other character's inner perspective, who would it be, and why?
#3. How do you feel about the burgeoning relationships forming left & right? We have Katie & Jenni's relationship, Travis & Katie's relationship, and Juan & Jenni's relationship. Do you feel as though it is realistic to be forming these sorts of relationships in the midst of a zom-pocalypse?
#4. How do you feel about the scene with Tobias? And Laura? Once again, on page 215, Katie says "It's sheer luck Travis. You, me, Jenni, all of us...being alive. Being okay. We were just lucky to get to safety. We all could have been Laura." We've already touched on this, but have your opinions on being at the 'right place, right time' have changed, or stayed the same?
#5. How are you feeling, in general, about the book so far? Any favorite passages or scenes?
#6. NOW FOR THE 'TRICK' QUESTION :-) If YOU could ask the group one question about this section of the reading, what would it be? (I'm hoping this will give each of us a chance to touch on anything that you may feel important that I missed, and DESPERATELY hoping that perhaps this chance for y'all to ask a question will keep the discussion going. 'Cause I feel like asking 'Am I a total failure at being a moderator???' WHY is no one participating???? :'( You guys are gonna make me cry!)
Once again, PLEASE answer as many or few questions as you'd like. At this point, I feel as though I'd martyr myself to zoms if it would get this discussion rolling!!!
~Teresa~
Mod
It's more that Katie is "hands on" with Jenni.
I don't have the book in front of me ATM but as I recall she's letting Travis believe that she's going after Jenni romantically speaking.
If I had the book handy I'd quote where she tells Travis that Juan isn't a threat.
And what's up with the whole, I'm not a lesbian. I'm bisexual. Chat with the 15 year old...I forget his name right now but Jenni stepson.
Talk about over-sharing.
What's with the freak out of jenni that Katie left her behind? I mean fainting?! Drama much?
When Kate is gone with Travis at Ralph and Merit
Jenni is spending more time without Katie then she did with Katie.
Juan and the construction crew people have provided more food and protection then Katie did. Yet we keep hearing how safe Katie is.... major disconnect.
Travis is going out of his way to look over Katie. Yet she only acknowledges this once. For the most part her"great" connection to Travis is one sided.
Remember you asked why I gave this three stars? This is it, right here, in a nutshell.
Here are MY answers:#1. Who is your favorite character so far, and why?
I LOVE Juan's sense of humor, although I feel as though it borders a little too closely to racism and sexism at times. Still, there is just something about him that I can't get enough of! His constant complaints about having read the Zombie Survival Handbook: Everything You Need to Know to Survive the Outbreak and being misinformed by it make me laugh! He says 'They aren't supposed to be fast,' and 'How can they climb? They aren't supposed to be able to do that?' He says "They're breaking all the f*%king zombie rules!" on page 229. That made me laugh out loud! His constant bickering with Jenni kept a comedic element to the book, and, deep down, I think you can tell he is a really good-hearted, compassionate guy. Still, I can't say he is my favorite, because he DOES make some incredibly off-colored remarks at times. I feel a strong draw to Nerit, as well. She's so incredibly strong. I could only hope to be as strong as her in my older years. I guess wisdom DOES come with age, but I would REALLY like to get more background on her, especially her holocaust survival experience.
#2. How do the chapter 'breakdowns' affect the story for you? (i.e., the numbered sections within each chapter) Have you noticed that each section seems to alternate between Katie's & Jenni's perspectives? Do you think the story would be better if we got, say, one little section of Nerit's perspective? (Or Ralph's, Travis's, etc.?) If you COULD get one other character's inner perspective, who would it be, and why?
I LOVE this!!! Not only does it break the story into easily digestible bits (no pun intended), it switches back and forth between perspectives so that the story isn't all told through Katie's eyes, or all through Jenni's. This way, we can catch inside glimpses into what each woman is thinking. I think it is an excellent story-telling format, and think it adds to the pacing. I WOULD, however, love to get some of the other character's perspectives. Actually, I'd like to get ALL the main character's perspective at least once, but I realize that may be too much character development in a book that is mainly focused on only 2 characters. If I could only chose one character more to add to the 'change-ups,' it would definitely be Travis'. I want to know what the hell he is thinking!
#3. How do you feel about the burgeoning relationships forming left & right? We have Katie & Jenni's relationship, Travis & Katie's relationship, and Juan & Jenni's relationship. Do you feel as though it is realistic to be forming these sorts of relationships in the midst of a zom-pocalypse?
Honestly, I could go on FOREVER about this, but I'm going to try and keep it kinda short (for me, at least!). Firstly, I think there is A TON of sexual tension between friggin EVERYBODY, and I don't feel as though this seems realistic at all. I mean, come on! This isn't high school hook-up time!!! Is that all any of these characters can think about???There was a reference to the fort being the 'new Eden.' Is THAT why everyone seems to want to pair up? I would think crazy, bloodthirsty, super human fast zombies would keep me from thinking about sex, and especially keep me from thinking about long term relationships, which is what seems to be going on here more than simple lust. It seems as though everyone is going into 'courtship' mode or something, as if they are looking for a forever partner in this new world. Katie has just lost the love of her life, and while I understand Jenni is fragile, Katie seems awfully touchy feely with her. No, I don't think Katie 'wants' her, but I DO think she should let her become a little stronger on her own rather than coddling her so much. Also, Katie is INCREDIBLY touchy feely with Travis, and she springs it on us that BAM- she's NOT a lesbian, but rather a bi-sexual. Which is FINE...you'd just think that would have been mentioned earlier. So, here I am thinking perhaps her and Travis are going to hook-up when Travis tells her "You're the prettiest competition I ever had." So now he's after Jenni??? I don't understand WHAT is going on there. THEN, Juan and Jenni's flirting seems to be going somewhere, but where??? Katie is totally allowing Jenni to become VERY dependent on her, and I think Katie is enjoying it, making the relationship co-dependant, but not in a sexual way. It's all baffling to me. It is an aspect of the book that I think needs cranked down about 10 notches!
#4. How do you feel about the scene with Tobias? And Laura? Once again, on page 215, Katie says "It's sheer luck Travis. You, me, Jenni, all of us...being alive. Being okay. We were just lucky to get to safety. We all could have been Laura." We've already touched on this, but have your opinions on being at the 'right place, right time' have changed, or stayed the same?
I'm bringing up the 'luck' thing again, I know. But I feel as though it seems important to Frater because she keeps bringing it up. Katie contemplates poor Laura having been over in the grocery store the whole time, and how easily it could have been any other one of the characters. I think that part of the 'luck' is being in a proper frame of mind, and I feel as though that is why Tobias' fate was so terrible. I can say for sure that there have been times in my life where I have been stronger and therefore, possibly more capable of dealing with a situation of this magnitude, and then there have been times where I've been so fragile minded a mere flat tire could have sent me to the nut ward! I think it is just a matter of chance and luck that Jenni didn't turn out like Laura. If Mikey or Benji had survived, there's no doubt in my mind that Jenni would have tried the same thing Tobias did. Yes, preparedness CAN make all the difference, as we know from that TV show 'Doomsday Preppers,' but what if you were on a plane, or on vacation, or simply at work and therefore away from your family and your stockpile? My feelings remain strong that 'right place, right time' makes every bit of difference! For example, there is NO WAY there would be any sort of fort if there didn't just so happen to be a renovation going on in Ashley Oaks. So, yeah...I think luck AND the right frame of mind play a HUGE factor into whether you'll survive or not in an NEE.
#5. How are you feeling, in general, about the book so far? Any favorite passages or scenes?
I am still enjoying this book quite a bit, although I've about had it with all these weird relationships forming (or should I say NOT forming?). I still feel as though it's speeding right along, and I still care about the characters very much. I want to see some more fort-building, zombie killing action, rather than all this 'Am I gay, or bi?' and 'That girl is a lesbo (!!!),' when it's Jenni (the supposedly straight one) they are referring to. I LOVED the scene where Laura jumps of the pallet, not because she died, but because it was so 'edge of your seat' action. I also loved the zombie annihilation scene at the end of chapter 15. I find myself enjoying the time we are spending at Ashley Oaks more than any other scenes in the book (although I am dearly fond of Ralph and Nerit as well). I have so many passages highlighted by now, its utterly ridiculous! There's no way I could post them all here, but Frater definitely has a way with words, and so far I think there has been a good mix of drama, sadness, grief, happiness, relief, and comedy. I guess this is my way of saying I am still thoroughly enjoying this one. I DO, however, want to see some of this relationship stuff resolved SOON. I was hoping that the sequel would be something I would immediately jump into, but if this crazy relationship stuff doesn't at least SOMEWHAT resolve itself, I don't think I'll be reading the sequel...
#6. NOW FOR THE 'TRICK' QUESTION :-) If YOU could ask the group one question about this section of the reading, what would it be? (I'm hoping this will give each of us a chance to touch on anything that you may feel important that I missed, and DESPERATELY hoping that perhaps this chance for y'all to ask a question will keep the discussion going. 'Cause I feel like asking 'Am I a total failure at being a moderator???' WHY is no one participating???? :'( You guys are gonna make me cry!)
I'm even gonna do this one! ;-) I would like to know what you guys thought about Katie getting 'sick.' Did you think it was the zombie bug? Or did you feel certain that she was going to make it? Lemme tell you- I seriously thought she was a goner, but knowing there was a sequel, and knowing that she is the strongest character I knew she had to make it. Still, you WOULD think that the zombie bug could be passed via blood born pathogen.
Elizabeth wrote: "As usual, I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I eventually show up!#1.For starters, who do you identify with most in this book so far and why? Katie, the 'hero'? Jenni, 'the compassionate foll..."
Elizabeth, I want you to know that I greatly appreciate your answers, and fully intended to respond to them as I did to Tammy's, but now that we are moving on to the next section, I am hoping you'll answer the second set, and I can respond to those! Thanks, lady! :-)
Tammy K. wrote: "Note at no time did I mention traveling to west Virginia.
I'm afraid of East coaster's. I watch the News, you're all nutters over there!
..."
I hate to say this, but I have to agree somewhat! HOWEVER, when it comes to 'nutters,' I think Florida takes the cake!!! Here on the East Coast, we not-so-affectionately refer to it as 'Our most f*&ked up state!' (Sorry, Netanella!!!)
Tammy K. wrote: "Wait, who's watching Teresa? Omg!
This is so why I'm not the leader."
Apparently, NO ONE is watching me!!! If they were, we'd have more discussion going on!!! Remind me NEVER to mod again!!! This is a disaster! What am I doing wrong???
Mod
Nerit, hands down. When I was reading yesterday, I realized that I relate to her the most. She's calm in a crisis, gets things done - and I want to be a badass Israeli sniper.
#2. How do the chapter 'breakdowns' affect the story for you? (i.e., the numbered sections within each chapter) Have you noticed that each section seems to alternate between Katie's & Jenni's perspectives? Do you think the story would be better if we got, say, one little section of Nerit's perspective? (Or Ralph's, Travis's, etc.?) If you COULD get one other character's inner perspective, who would it be, and why?
I think the breakdowns only affect me because I'm trying to reach certain chapters for the group read. I don't recall being annoyed by them on my first read-through, although I am now.
I think this is meant to be Katie and Jenni's story, so I'm not really bothered by not having big chunks of other perspective - but we have had *some* hints of what Travis and Juan are going thinking here and there.
#3. How do you feel about the burgeoning relationships forming left & right? We have Katie & Jenni's relationship, Travis & Katie's relationship, and Juan & Jenni's relationship. Do you feel as though it is realistic to be forming these sorts of relationships in the midst of a zom-pocalypse?
I feel very RAWR about all these relationships. I'll just mostly refer to Tammy's post above. I remember on my first reading, I was all - WUT? These relationships no longer make any sense to me.
My husband is in the Army. So, I have some first-hand experience with how quickly relationships can form in a crisis, and how deeply. Even as a spouse, I've had this happen. But I'm not seeing any proof for this in the book, especially in this section.
#4. How do you feel about the scene with Tobias? And Laura? Once again, on page 215, Katie says "It's sheer luck Travis. You, me, Jenni, all of us...being alive. Being okay. We were just lucky to get to safety. We all could have been Laura." We've already touched on this, but have your opinions on being at the 'right place, right time' have changed, or stayed the same?
Uh, I guess Tobias didn't make much of an impression on me. It took me quite a while to remember who he was. That whole part really happened right out of the blue.
The Laura part annoyed me. Their reaction to her didn't make sense to me. And then - they just sort of let her do her own thing, and it didn't occur to any of them that it might be a bad idea to have her hanging over a pit of zombies? Bah.
#5. How are you feeling, in general, about the book so far? Any favorite passages or scenes?
Sigh. The one that stands out to me the most is the bisexual scene. This time, as last time, I read it and thought "OH. That's why there's all this weirdness with the Travis Katie Juan Jenni lesbian attraction thing." I'm not a romance reader, so this really turned me off.
And I may be speaking out of turn, but as someone with friends and family who are LGBT, this struck me as a rather disrespectful turn of events. So much time is taken to set Katie up as a lesbian, or so much emphasis added, and then *POOF* she is magically (and conveniently) bi. Which we discover after yet ANOTHER inappropriate conversation with a 15 year old boy.
RAWR
As to how I'm feeling - I'm not sure. I think the writing is devolving? There's a lot more telling going on than showing? I'm getting tired of the constant emotional talk. It's getting to the point where I'm going I DON'T CARE HOW YOU FEEL! SHOOOOOT SOMETHING!
#6. NOW FOR THE 'TRICK' QUESTION :-) If YOU could ask the group one question about this section of the reading, what would it be? (I'm hoping this will give each of us a chance to touch on anything that you may feel important that I missed, and DESPERATELY hoping that perhaps this chance for y'all to ask a question will keep the discussion going. 'Cause I feel like asking 'Am I a total failure at being a moderator???' WHY is no one participating???? :'( You guys are gonna make me cry!)
Once again, PLEASE answer as many or few questions as you'd like. At this point, I feel as though I'd martyr myself to zoms if it would get this discussion rolling!!!
You are doing FINE. No crying!
My question would be: If you could make one change to this book, what would it be?
Mod
I'm such a stick-in-the-mud, but to me - this seemed like a lazy way for Frater to make independent Katie dependent on Travis, and to give Jenni some more reasons for being flaky. It just seemed very contrived.
You know, I'd have to google around a bit, but I wonder if this is one of the original chick lit zom roms? That would explain quite a bit.
Mod
No, I'm DEFINITELY watching you. Nice shoes.
It's hard to have a BOTM when only a few are participating. However, a few have popped in and said that they'll jump in when they can, so maybe they still will! Which would be awesome.
Elizabeth wrote: "Tammy sez : Hi Teresa,It's more that Katie is "hands on" with Jenni.
I don't have the book in front of me ATM but as I recall she's letting Travis believe that she's going after Jenni romantica..."
GREAT!!! Ugh...now I almost don't want to finish! Tammy brought up so many relevant points in this response, I don't even know where to begin. I am going to wait until tomorrow to respond to any more answers that may get posted tonite, but I HAD to respond to this one. I purchased this title for my Kindle, and it was only a couple bucks more to add professional narration to it, which I opted to do. During the parts where Jenni freaks out, the narrator absolutely, positively puts on the whiniest, most pitiful voice EVER, and I feel like it's going to make my ears bleed every time I hear 'Jenni's' voice!!! "We're best friends, don't you understand!!!" she says at one pint. Since WHEN??? 3 freaking days ago??? I understand tragedy has a way of 'bonding' people, but this is completely unhealthy, in my opinion. Katie is all over the place, and so is Jenni, and so is Travis, fir that matter!!!! I couldn't tell if when she said Juan wasn't a threat meant that she DID wanna be with Jenni, and knows how weak Jenni is and therefore that Jenni would remain by her side no matter what (and basically do ANYTHING Katie told her to), or if she meant that Juan isn't a threat because she wants to hook up with TRAVIS! I get the fact that Jenni is used to taking orders, but I think Katie is adding to the problem by not allowing Jenni to stand on her own two feet a little more. After all, if she was really Jenni's friend, wouldn't she want Jenni to be able to take care of herself? She even asks Travis to take care of Jenni if something would happen to her. WHY CAN'T JENNI LEARN TO TAKE CARE OF HERSELF???? Even Jason is more self-reliant than Jenni. For Christ's sake...Katie and Jenni even hold hands all night long. I mean really? First, Katie turns down Jenni's advances (which makes perfect sense), but from that point forward, she has let Jenni become absolutely dependent on her. This is NOT doing Jenni a favor. As for the help Travis gives Katie being one-sided, I do disagree with that part. She shoots that zom that woulda creamed him in front of Ralph's store because he was so unfamiliar with a weapon. But then again, she holds hands with Travis, too. I SOOOOO don't get what is going on here, but at least I'm not the only one!!! And for the people of Ashley Oaks being so INCREDIBLY accommodating to both Katie AND Jenni, neither one of them seems very appreciative to anyone but Travis. It's all going very bizarre, and I'm REALLY hoping the last section resolves some of these conflicts, although I fear it won't. That IS what sequels are for, right? ;-)
Great answers, Elizabeth! I'm watching you, too, Tammy!!! I can't wait to see what you'll have to say. But I DO have the step-daughter tonight, so I'm going to try and hang with her. I KNOW I'll end up 'peeking' at Goodreads, so rest assured, your responses will be greatly appreciated and responded to tomorrow morning, if not later tonight. I want to thank you two for following through on your commitment to this BOTM read. Shoot...I don't even think Elizabeth committed, but she's still swooping in like a total super-hero to save this discussion!!! I wish some of the other ladies would speak up! Kristin, Lana, Heather...where are ya??? Speak up...you've all said you'd read it before and loved it, jump in the conversation already! We're waiting! ;-) Or, if you wanna wait til the end, drop a line saying you'll pop in for final discussion....please? I'll give you ice cream!!! ;-)
I'll jump in a little - as I have already listened to all three on audiobook I'll try not to be spoilery.#1. Who is your favorite character so far, and why?
Nerit hands down is my favorite. She is the character I understand. Several of the others seem to change back and forth and I can't quite put my finger on who they are supposed to be - but Nerit I really get - and she never annoyed me ;)
#2. How do the chapter 'breakdowns' affect the story for you? (i.e., the numbered sections within each chapter) Have you noticed that each section seems to alternate between Katie's & Jenni's perspectives? Do you think the story would be better if we got, say, one little section of Nerit's perspective? (Or Ralph's, Travis's, etc.?) If you COULD get one other character's inner perspective, who would it be, and why?
I would love to have more from Nerit. In general I like the back and forth perspective except that I cringed a little every time we went back to Jenni. She made me a little nuts.
#3. How do you feel about the burgeoning relationships forming left & right? We have Katie & Jenni's relationship, Travis & Katie's relationship, and Juan & Jenni's relationship. Do you feel as though it is realistic to be forming these sorts of relationships in the midst of a zom-pocalypse?
I hate this part of the book. It seems very contrived and unnatural to me. I can see forming "survivor bonds" but all the romance seems out of place. If the Z apocalypse ever comes and my husband has been snacked on I'm going to be in a cranky killin/surviving mood not batting my eyelashes and flipping my unwashed hair at every guy/gal that wanders by. It reminded me of some of the old western movies, Rio Bravo comes to mind, where some silly B storyline romance is shoved in because someone wanted to "chick up" the film. Not my style.
#4. How do you feel about the scene with Tobias? And Laura? Once again, on page 215, Katie says "It's sheer luck Travis. You, me, Jenni, all of us...being alive. Being okay. We were just lucky to get to safety. We all could have been Laura." We've already touched on this, but have your opinions on being at the 'right place, right time' have changed, or stayed the same?
I can't remember who Tobias is either ;) As far as the luck factor, some luck plays in based on where you are when the bleep hits the fan etc., but the "we could have been Laura" ie any of us could have done a bunch of stupid stuff and then committed suicide by zombie?? Umm nuh uh! Not me! Why would the terrified girl who had hidden all that time just jump into the z pit? Shoot herself, cut her wrists etc maybe. But suicide by zombie. Nope.
#5. How are you feeling, in general, about the book so far? Any favorite passages or scenes?
Better skip this one so as not to be spoilery - except to say that I loved the introduction to Nerit and her hubs.
#6. NOW FOR THE 'TRICK' QUESTION :-) If YOU could ask the group one question about this section of the reading, what would it be? (I'm hoping this will give each of us a chance to touch on anything that you may feel important that I missed...
I felt this writer/story had so much potential (great descriptions of places, people, smells, atmosphere) but the gay/not gay, who's hooking up with who from all the different perspectives just jerked me right back out of the action and ruined the tension. Like slamming on the brakes every time I really started getting into the story so more characters could debate everyone's sexuality in these long drawn out blah blah blahs. Would anyone in that circumstance care about sex and sexual orientation? I would just want to know who can shoot straight. Just me?
Anyway that's my .02 :)
I would agree with Elizabeth on many of her responses. And Welcome to the discussion Thia :) only a week into the group and your jumping right in, Kudos!!Ok question one: favorite character so far, and why?
ugh do I have to pick?
Ok I pick Jack because he has a winning personality!
I guess for the humans, I would pick Travis.
WHY? because he has buckled down and did what needs to be done for the well being of the remaining society as a whole.
He has not place his safety/comfort/personal concerns above others.
The same can not be said for the other main characters save maybe Juan but that remains to be seen really.
-
How do the chapter 'breakdowns' affect the story?
I do not mind them. I think they serve as capture the concept of the upcoming section.
--
Have you noticed that each section seems to alternate between Katie's & Jenni's perspectives?
No, I had not. MY bad sorry. I have been noticing mostly Katie's sections/perspective. I guess I am mentally blocking out Jenni.
--
Do you think the story would be better if we got, say, one little section of Nerit's perspective? (Or Ralph's, Travis's, etc.?) Yes
If you COULD get one other character's inner perspective, who would it be, and why?
I think all of them would help.
There is simply too much focus on Katie and Jenni's aspect.
And while things are happening in the other scenes, the focus returns to the ersatz homosexual marriage. Yeah, I am borrowing that phrase from Leonard's Mom off the TV show, The Big Bang Theory. But let's face it, that is what this appears to be, a substitute (fake) intimate bonding, at least at this stage in the story.
I am going to post this and then start on the second half the questions.
Ugh! I typed up my next set of answers and lost it when I went to hit post!
Katie & Jenni's relationship: What the heck is Katie's and Jenni's relationship? Seriously!Travis & Katie's relationship: this has been built up by the author as something special, but I do not see it.
As I said above, it seems very one sided. Even if all the relationship ends up being is a deep friendship it is too lopsided. Travis is too much of a nice guy. Katie is too self absorbed.
Juan & Jenni's relationship: Harmless, playful and sibling like.
I feel that in extreme times people have the tendency to couple. It's natures insurance for survival of our species. Be that friendship or mating, we seek comfort in groups.
Now for my Katie sexuality (and Jenni too) rant.
WTF!
If you want your main characters to have a lesbian relationship, than have your main characters have a lesbian relationship.
If you want your main characters to ponder over a lesbian relationship, than make it a point in one section, deal with it and get over it.
Pick your side of the fence and build your house (story) on it.
I agree with Elizabeth that a back and forth, pseudo homosexual relationship is utterly disrespectful.
Seriously? You are representing like this? Go back home and try again! This time either bring out your Pride flag or raise up your white.
As for Katie's bisexuality.
Bisexuality gets a bad wrap as is. It is not, I love him this minute, I love her the next. That kind of behavior is a sign that your off your anti-psychotics or you need to raise the dose because it aint working any more.
If Katie is bisexual, Than take her sexuality seriously. Give her common sense to make the right choice and/or the ability to pick the right person for herself. Indecision isn't going to cut it for me.
Coming out of the bisexual closet to a 15 year old is ... *insert a lot of words that would get deleted by Goodreads or the mod. here* all I can say is WTF, (again!)
AND
If Katie is going to come out as Bisexual, than she should come out in a part of the story where it makes sense to what is happening in that scene AND to someone who it is relevant too, like say Jenni or Travis.
But since we know (because Katie has said so) that Katie isn't interested in having an intimate relationship with either Travis or Jenni, then it is not relevant to the story one way or the other if Katie is a lesbian or bisexual. Leave it out of the story. Adding it for shock value alone is offensive.
Note once again: I have not completed the reading of this story. I might end up eating crow once more. However these are my feelings about this part of the story.
How do you feel about the scene with Tobias? I felt that Tobias refusal to accept that his loved ones were ill rather than dead zombies, was a sign of his grief.
His losses were great and he lacked the mental ability to cope.
Having lost my mother a couple years back to cancer after a long battle, I can attest to the fact that Grief makes us do strange and stupid things.
I have two brothers whom used to get along reasonably well, begin fighting within hours after mom's death.
That was three years ago and they are still dug in deep to their positions.
What they are fighting over is stupid. Totally stupid!
But it is how they chose to handle their loss.
It is easier for them to get upset and angry with each other than it is for them to get upset that they lost mother.
So do people do strange things in grief, yup.
This applies to Laura as well.
From the very moment we first meet her in the story, its clear that she is not playing with a full deck.
I do not fault her for choosing death by zombie.
It's her life and lets face it, she lacked the ability to cope.
Now, why she wasn't left with Nerit and Ralph? I do not know. They were certainly more stable and the author went out of her way to say that Nerit loved to take care of and pamper Katie when she was ill.
I had thought that was where Laura was going to end up.
Her death really served no purpose in the story.
Her life and recovery would have provided more "useful" material in later books of the series.
--
Teresa, you seem to be hung up on this Luck thing.
I still stand by my first response.
#5. How are you feeling, in general, about the book so far? Any favorite passages or scenes? So far it has its up's and downs.
Favorite Scenes of this reading section... I guess the shoot out of the zombies back at Ashley Oaks
Elizabeth: If you could make one change to this book, what would it be?JENNI
As for my questionI am stuck between two of them.
You can answer either one if you like
1) Would this story have played out differently if you were to substituent the character of Katie with a male character named Kevin?
2)What does it mean to be STRONG In the face of a catastrophe?
If there are only Elizabeth, Tammy, & I, I would like to speed up the last chunk. Any suggestions on a finish date, gals?Yes, how about we finish this up.
End the reading Monday Oct 28.
Post the last set of questions that day as well (morning or evening doesn't matter to me, you are three hours ahead of me)
ON Tuesday and for the remaining days of the month, anyone who wants to add their thoughts can jump in and add them.
Tammy: I would feel more comfortable finishing on Tuesday because I work all day tomorrow and haven't had a chance to start the final section (I didn't want to read ahead, and spoil anything for myself, or anyone else!). We'll see though, because I will most likely finish tonite. I'll put up a post for people to respond to, finding out what the rest of the group wants to do. ****I am DEEPLY appreciative of the input from you guys!!! I love you all!!! <3 <3 <3!!! I am getting ready to hop in the car to take the step-daughter home (but not before a stop at Toys R Us first...). I will respond to your answers when I return home, around 5-6P.M.EST. Thanks again, ladies!!!! Talk to ya soon!!!!*****
Thia wrote: "I'll jump in a little - as I have already listened to all three on audiobook I'll try not to be spoilery.#1. Who is your favorite character so far, and why?
Nerit hands down is my favorite. She ..."
Thia, I have to say, your answers are well thought out, and you have an excellent way of phrasing things! I sooo appreciate your input. As Tammy said, you've only been in the group for a week, and you've already posted more than some members who have been here for years! I look forward to your opinions in later BOTM threads, for sure! Welcome to the hoarde!
And no, you are NOT the only one who would 'just like to know who can shoot straight!' ;-)
Elizabeth wrote: "I'm even gonna do this one! ;-) I would like to know what you guys thought about Katie getting 'sick.' Did you think it was the zombie bug? Or did you feel certain that she was going to make it? Le..."Elizabeth, I think I agree with you here. I never really thought about it like that until you pointed it out, but you have a really good point...
As for your question "What would you change about this book?" Well, I'd most certainly have to say I'd tune down the whole 'lovey-dovey' bs going on here there and everywhere. It's REALLY starting to aggravate the be-jesus out of me, and when I was at the Laundromat a little while ago listening to chapter 16, and heard even MORE crazy boy on boy, girl on girl, girl on boy, who likes who jibber jabber, I starting grumbling to myself. People started looking at me. Then, when Jenni says "Love the penis, I assure you," on pg 264, I said WTF very loudly! More looks came my way, but when I almost shouted 'This is f-ing bs' at Jenni's statement of "I need makeup. And a cute top," I had to leave because I think I was making people nervous. Looking back on it, I DID have my hood pulled up, so some folks may not've seen my earbuds! They probably thought I was some loon talking to myself!!!
Tammy K. wrote: "Ok I pick Jack because he has a winning personality!..."You are too funny!!! (but correct as well, unfortunately!!!) And I'm sorry about you losing your answers! That has happened to me several times, and I HATE it because it seems as though you've gotten all your thoughts perfectly figured out and worded like a champ, the POOF! away it all goes, and you forget some of the stuff you were going to say. But at least you rallied and made a come-back, with some awesome answers, I must say!
And as for your answer about Travis being your favorite character, and why, you have very good thinking there. Once again, this was something I personally didn't really pick up on until you broke it down like that (I mean, I DID pick up on Travis being the 'hero' type, but once you pointed out that everything he does is for the safety of the ENTIRE group, I thought, 'Huh...that is SOOO true.') Good thinkin, chick! I just hope that his concern for the entire group doesn't get muddled by his feelings for Katie, but I have a feeling it just might...
As for your questions, I ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY DO think this story would play out COMPLETELY diiferently if Katie were a male character named Kevin (or Tom, or Dick, or Harry ;-) ). THERE WOULDN'T BE A STORY, THOUGH!!!! Because let's face it...this book is focusing too much on 'psudeo-homosexuality'
(or whatever the hell is going on)and weird relationships. If we had a male main character, Jenni woulda tried to bang him in chapter one, and they'd have been zombie food. THE END.
As for the other question, I keep using bthe word 'strong' in reference to keeping your wits about you in times of intense crisis, and remaining 'you' despite what chaos is going on around you. Looking back on some of my phrasing, I realize I seem to be using the word kind of erroneously. I've referred to Jenni as 'strong' several times, when it's clear she isn't. Sometimes I use the word 'strong' interchangeably with 'strong character,' meaning that the author places a strong emphasis on and develops Jenni much more than the other characters.
For the first set of questions, I opted to respond to each answer individually, which wasn't that hard to do, since Tammy was the only one that answered them!!! (Well, Elizabeth did, too, but I didn't have time to break down and respond to each answer due to work obligations and the fact that we were almost to the second chunk's end date- still, Liz deserves a pat on the back for jumping in like a totally kick-ass Israeli sniper and answering all those questions in an attempt to save the BOTM, successfully, too, I might add) Anyway, since there were several responses to this set of questions, I am just going to say THANK YOU to those of you that did respond. I tried to at least respond to each of you individually, even if I don't have time to respond to each of your answers individually. You ladies really brought up some good points, and gave me much food for thought. I thank you so very much for participating, but I just don't have the time to respond individually to 18 different answers. At least we seem to have arrived at a consensus that Jenni is annoying as all get out, and that all the romance bull-crap is getting annoying as HELL. Rest assured that I DID read everyone's answers, and you all brought up very good ideas and I can tell you all thought about the questions in detail. Once again, thank you, so much! I love you guys!!! Sorry I can't do as I did for Tammy's first set of answers, but I'm sure you all understand the time constraints. Suffice it to say, I appreciate your participation. Did I say 'thanks' yet???? ;-) Oh well...I'll say it again- THANK YOU!!!!
Tammy K. wrote: "If there are only Elizabeth, Tammy, & I, I would like to speed up the last chunk. Any suggestions on a finish date, gals?Yes, how about we finish this up.
End the reading Monday Oct 28.
Post the..."
Can you all refer to post 120? How would you girls feel about that? The only thing that I cannot commit to is posting the final set of questions on Monday. I think Tammy has a good idea here, and the last chunk IS a good deal shorter than our other chunks. I would like to do this, so if there aren't any objections, this is what is going to happen: we will finish the last section by Tuesday evening. I will post the last set of questions as late as I can Tuesday evening to give you west-coasters a chance to finish your reading before the questions are up. I have to open the store on Wednesday morning, so I WILL be trying to go to sleep early, but I plan on trying to wait til around 8 or 9 p.m. EST Tuesday to post them (which would be 5-6 PST, I THINK lol). I will warn you that after I post the questions and my personal answers, I probably won't be able to respond to much else until I get home from work Wednesday afternoon (and maybe after I nap, too ;-P). Still, I think this is a good idea, but I do not want to pressure anyone. If you don't want this BOTM sped up, we won't go faster. But I don't anticipate anyone objecting, and actually, if you are anyone OTHER than Thia, Tammy, or Elizabeth (i.e. the members who are actually participating), your request will merely be laughed at and over looked. Sorry, but I'm not pandering to anyone who hasn't participated all month. I'm mean like that. I'm already annoyed that this book got 12 votes (none of which were from any of our current participants, as far as I can tell), and yet we have nowhere near 12 people reading this. Once again, seeing as how Tammy & I are the only 2 who HAVEN'T read this previously, I don't foresee a problem speeding it up, but by all means, Thia and Elizabeth, if either of you have a problem with this PM me and we'll stick to the original schedule. Otherwise, I'm making the executive decision to post the questions on Tuesday. Thanks, and happy reading, everyone!!!
~Teresa~
I am OK with the final lot of questions on Tuesday.I've almost finished this book maybe two chapters left.
I am deeply disappointed with the way things have progressed.
This story started off with so much promise.
Then it lost steam, flipped and flopped trying to get on some sort of plot, but I don't know... It just dissolved into cliques and high school dating drama.
I feel like it could have made more of the characters uniqueness, instead it chickened out and washed out.
Running away from any social statements self acceptance, tolerance, and the integrity of the LGBT individuals.
It turned into little more than a young adult novel with sex in it.
The word lesbo was used far more than acceptable. Yes it was to make a point, but what does Katie do? Tell her boyfriend Travis to ignore it and walk away.
Calling Jenni loca is over done and while it may be that the character is reckless, she seems to be doing her part of protecting the community equally to the non-loca individuals.
So when I take a serious look at the portrayal of two women characters in this book, it is dismissive, demeaning and disappointing.
They both still need a "man" to tell them how to act and to define them.
Too many of the men in this book are of the "Good OL' Boy"
Mentality.
Tammy K. wrote: "Too many of the men in this book are of the "Good OL' Boy"Mentality...."
Tammy, tongue-in-cheek comment here, but isn't this book set in Texas? :~)
Netanella wrote: "Tammy K. wrote: "Too many of the men in this book are of the "Good OL' Boy"Mentality...."
Tammy, tongue-in-cheek comment here, but isn't this book set in Texas? :~)"
Yeah, I guess it was.
But I've never been to Texas. Although I've heard of the Texas stereotypes, I was not expecting it in this book, my bad!
I was hoping for more than I got in this story.
In the end all I can say is that I do NOT consider this a progressive portrayal of Lesbian, bisexual or even straight women.
I finished reading and posted my review of First Days.Do not check my review until after you have finished reading.
(view spoiler)
Thanks for the welcome! FYI the three volumes of As the World Dies: Untold Tales Volume 1 of some of these characters are quite good. There is no Jenni and Katie in two of them and very minimal mention from another character's perspective in one. They were not the author trying to make some weird sexuality statement, or trying to write strong women who were not at all strong IMO, or romance novely, they are just great back story "where were you when the world went to bleep" tales. I liked them quite a lot.
Also, I was born and raised in Texas and while the physical descriptions of places, heat, roads, etc. were spot on - None of the characters felt like "my people" at all. In this and later books the author tends to "weaken" the men like Travis almost as if to try to make the women seem stronger by comparison. For example you would have an extremely difficult time finding a Texan who would have trouble embracing guns particularly during the zombie apocalypse - man or woman. The villains - who shall go unnamed so as not to spoil in case any of you read further - are cartoon characters who all just happen to be racist, sexist, and homophobic. Lots of clumsy attempts at political and societal statements that fall flat.
That said, there was something I really liked about this writer's tale telling ability when she just stuck to telling a good story. So while I would not recommend the rest of the books proper - the three Untold Tales volumes were a delight for me.
Thia wrote: "Thanks for the welcome! FYI the three volumes of As the World Dies: Untold Tales Volume 1 of some of these characters are quite good. There is no Jenni and Katie in two of them and very minimal..."
Thanks for the info, Thia. The "Untold Tales" books kept popping up for 'similar titles,' and I thought they looked kind of good. I just may have to read one of them, because, as Tammy said, there WERE a lot of good things about this book, and I DO like the world Frater is describing, but I DO NOT like Jenni or Katie!
Questions will be up later, chicks. Gonna lay down for a couple hours...I am EXHAUSTED...but, have no fear! They WILL be up in a few hours or so.
Thia wrote: "..... That said, there was something I really liked about this writer's tale telling ability when she just stuck to telling a good story..."I am inclined to believe that.
Just as Teresa stated, I too like the world the author built.
I found the pace of the story was just the right mix of plot expanding (action) scenes vs character exploration (slower) scenes .
There was a fair amount of variation in the action scenes with different locations and goals.
I felt that each of the characters started off as interesting personalities. However, as the story expanded they lost their appeal in their development.
So would I give this author another try? Yeah probably. But I'd be inclined to stop reading any future books, the minute I started to see character meltdown.
Okay ladies! Its almost that time! I'm getting my pumpkin pie fix at McDonald's, then home to devour one (or three), then to that laptop I go! So hang tight...about another hour or so and you'll have your questions! :-) Just remember, I AM on the East Coast, so I am working later in the evening that you all seem to be. I have to try REALLY REALLY hard not to have a bout of insomnia because I have to open the store tomorrow A.M.and that means a 5 A.M. alarm :-\ So, in other words, after I post the questions and *crosses fingers* my answers, too, I'll be going 'off the grid' for the rest of the nite, or else I know I will piddle around until 3 A.M. So just don't expect responses to your posts til the A.M. Thanks, guys!!!~Teresa~
I found it very hard to answer earlier questions since I'd read this before and knew (mostly) where it was heading, though my memory isn't really as good as it used to be, age and all that. I'm thinking that it would be easier to participate in reading a book that I hadn't read previously because I was afraid that I'd give away more than I should in my answers. I loved the way this book started. I really liked about the first third, before they found Ashley Oaks. I liked Katie and Jenni, I could understand where both were coming from. I LOVED Jack the dog :-) At the end Jack was the only one that I still really loved. I had also listened to the second installment on Audible and I didn't hate the story, but I was disappointed that the characters did not grow into who I thought they had the potential to be. I am enjoying reading this again, and seeing it from other points of view, which turns out are pretty close to mine, and actually may have helped me put my finger on some of the things that bothered me about the story. I do feel like the author sacrificed the characters to force it into more of a romance. I absolutely hated when Katie went from lesbian to bisexual out of the blue and I think it was a cop out. I loved Nerit's character and would have loved to have learned more about her, but then it was supposed to be more Jenni and Katie's story, and I would not have wanted to see Nerit's character weakened to fit into a romantic triangle of some kind after all ;)
I will second Thia's recommendation of the As the World Dies: Untold Tales. I've read Volumes I & II and found them to be very good. I like the worlds the author creates a lot. I have only read her zombie novels, and still have to read both #3 in this series and also Untold Tales Volume III but I do think she is growing as a writer.
QUESTION TIME!!!#1. Okay, I seemed to notice that this last section was even MORE about sex and relationships than the last section. Do you have any ideas as to why the author seems to have completely stopped the story to focus on the 'sex stuff?' Do you think it is because she knew there would be a sequel to save more zombie fighting action for? Or do you expect more of the same from the sequels? Will you be reading the sequels?
#2. I've noticed a lot of commentary about characters 'devolving.' Do you find this to be true? How so?
#3. How do you feel about Jenni's decision to be with Juan? Do you think she 'settled' for him after finding out how enamored Travis was by Katie, or did you think Jenni and Juan were a better match from the get-go? Do you even believe for a second that Juan is only the second man she's ever been with? (pg. 308)
#4. If YOU had to make the executive decision, would you have thrown Ritchie (the meth dealer) to the zoms, or do you agree with Travis that everyone is entitled to life and a new beginning? Logistically, what role do you think a drug dealer could play in this new society?
#5. On page 322, Juan says "Yeah, well, you try to be a Hispanic male in a white society and see if you feel comfortable with that answer." We hadn't heard ANYTHING about race relations; why the sudden mention? Do you see anything about Ashley Oaks (besides maybe Shane and Phil) that would make you think race relations would be a problem there?
#6. I'm not sure if this is included in the hard copy, and I know it isn't included in the audio version, but in the Kindle book, there is an author blurb at the end in which Frater explains that "Writers are often advised to write what they know and love. Well, I know Texans and I love the zombie genre." (pg. 333) As Thia's comment suggests, Frater may not know Texas as well as she claims, and she doesn't seem to know jack s&*t about the LGBT community. Why do you think she would chose to focus soooo strongly on this aspect? She also explains this book started as a blog-type mini-series, and that's where the chapter break downs came into play. Do you think its a possibility that the 'write a little bit' each day strategy rather than 'I'm going to sit down and write a novel" approach detracted from this book? How and why?
#7. Overall, what did you think of this one? Any important things you think I missed that need mentioning? And once again, the 'trick question': if you could ask the group one question about this section, what would it be?
And yep! I've made the executive decision (after filling my belly with pumpkin pie and having just taken my seizure meds, which make me super sleepy) to wait until tomorrow to answer these questions. Honestly, I found this book a bit irksome, and I'd like to completely wash my hands of it, but being the mod, that is simply not an option. Still, rather than spending any more time thinking about this book tonite, I'm going to curl up with something else. Also, I'd like to see some of your responses before I answer. So, HOPEFULLY, I will have time to answer them at work tomorrow; if not, I will answer and respond tomorrow afternoon. Thanks for participating, ladies!
ok As I recall the author inserted references to other zombie movies/books. Comments on the black guys being the hero's in zombie books, not ending up on a farm house and so on.
So when you ask about the sex, I recall thinking at that it was one of those moments. Every Horror book needs some T&A? Not really but its stereotypical for the larger genre and lets face it, other then Katie's brief lesbian experience (an off-page lesbian marriage) this books runs close to the stereotypes for the overall genre.
DO I think the author was thinking about the sequel. Probably on some level, three books do not just happen.
Do I think the author was using the sex to hook readers? If so then it didn't work for me. Like many other things in the romantic side of this story, the sex scene did not "fit". It stands out for it's out of the blue nature.
Will I be reading on in this series, unlikely but possible if it ends up a BOTM.
I've noticed a lot of commentary about characters 'devolving.' Do you find this to be true? How so?
I have ranted on that already see message 130
How do you feel about Jenni's decision to be with Juan? Do you think she 'settled' for him after finding out how enamored Travis was by Katie, or did you think Jenni and Juan were a better match from the get-go? Do you even believe for a second that Juan is only the second man she's ever been with? (pg. 308)
Ok I think for both Juan and Jenni that their hook up was out of convenience only for them both. It is sorta like the game musical chairs, no one wants to be the last person standing when the music stops.
Where they a better match? than who? Jenni is no more ready for a relationship than Katie is willing to come out of the bisexual closet (Remember she is still in it to everyone but the 15 year old).
Do you even believe for a second that Juan is only the second man she's ever been with? (pg. 308)
I believe the line was the second man she had been with WILLINGLY.
"Fire and water, heat and passion, desperation and perhaps something more, fueled their lovemaking. Jenni felt no fear as only the second man she had ever been with willingly in her entire life lifted her .... "
You know this book does not qualify for our groups PG-13 rating due to that scene.
I found the scene a bit too flowery and it was not all that "exciting" of a scene. I would not encourage this author to write erotica.
I am posting this so I do not lose it, and will move on to the next set of questions`
#4. If YOU had to make the executive decision, would you have thrown Ritchie (the meth dealer) to the zoms, or do you agree with Travis that everyone is entitled to life and a new beginning? Logistically, what role do you think a drug dealer could play in this new society?It is not likely that I would throw Ritchie over the fence.
I would be for a community vote regarding law-breaking individuals position inside the community.
That is after the community actually voted for a leader and the rules that the community wanted.
I am never for the "Might is Right" mentality that my good friend Randy is often spouting. (sorry Randy but feel compelled to pull you into the mud first, when I fear I am going to go down. It's just what friends do, right?)
Travis is no more the leader than anyone else. He's self appointed nature means little other then he is bossy.
And as a mother of two (grown) sons I will recite the words that I told my oldest more than once: Being bossy does not make you the boss. It makes you part of the problem that The Boss (aka Mom) deals with when I get home.
So does the guy or gal who tossed Ritchie over the fence get in less trouble if it is the Mayor? Who should make the rules? Well for me the rules should be made/enforced by the larger community whenever possible. Ritchie fate inside the community did not need to be dealt with ASAP.
If I had to vote what to do with a Ritchie: I would vote to have relocated somewhere a couple days drive away from the community. Leave him with a weapon and some food/water but only enough for a week or so. Tell him if he is seen back in the area, he will be shot.
But again that would only be with the communities backing.
5. On page 322, Juan says "Yeah, well, you try to be a Hispanic male in a white society and see if you feel comfortable with that answer." We hadn't heard ANYTHING about race relations; why the sudden mention? Do you see anything about Ashley Oaks (besides maybe Shane and Phil) that would make you think race relations would be a problem there?
Juans mother say
"We're a diverse group," Rosie said after a moment. "Statistically, it came out just like the town population. Sixty percent under the age of sixty two, forty percent over sixty-two. Forty percent white, forty percent Hispanic, twenty-five percent black and five percent other."
above that the narrator says
"Let me see." He took the clipboard and read over the names. Since he both worked on the site and was from the town, he knew just about everyone on the list. Forty-two names, including Travis and Katie, who technically weren't in the fort anymore.
Fifteen construction workers,
five city workers,
That left twenty civilians,
mostly family members of local construction workers or the city workers.
Well, excluding Chuck the truck driver and Jenni and Jason. And the dog.
40% of 42= 16.8
So at the start of Ashley oaks there are 16.8 Hispanic individuals.
I'm trying to figure out where the 15.8 Hispanic women belong. Who where they married too? We know Juans mother was a former town employee so how do the other Hispanic women fit in?
The would have had to been married to those racist construction workers?
There just isn't enough people given the #'s for their to be racial conflict or rather enough racial conflict to become an issue.
20 workers (town and construction)
20 civilians - Family members
say some of the men are single, some have children but keep in mind that Peggy's six year old son had no one to play with.
Logic flaw of the story?
Added note: I recall reading somewhere around that section which I quoted above I think, Juan and Travis talking about the ratio of male to female. That the male was higher than the female, but when I went to check it up and quote it, I couldn't find it.
#6. I am going to step over the first part of the question.. just gets too sticky for me to go there.as for the second part
Do you think its a possibility that the 'write a little bit' each day strategy rather than 'I'm going to sit down and write a novel" approach detracted from this book? How and why?
Because I am not an author and have zero plans of ever becoming one, I can say I have no idea which approach is the better approach.
I can say that the story reads disjointed. There are serious jumps in the characters behaviors which seem to have little to no explanation.
Like when Katie and Travis first get back from Nerits and Ralph's, Jenni and Katie are hanging on to each other so much so that everyone thought they were a couple. Then Bang out of the blue that stops. No reason provided.
Jenni's all hot for Travis, and Bang in one or two lines she has moved on.
and so on
Jenni goes from being a coward to a kill happy individual.
Katie goes from being an independent survivor to a coward.
Travis goes from a hero and savoir to spouting the "can't we all get along." nonsense.
I can find more inconsistencies for you but suffice to say that the book reads as if it wasn't well thought out.
#7. Overall, what did you think of this one? Any important things you think I missed that need mentioning? And once again, the 'trick question': if you could ask the group one question about this section, what would it be? I think its an average zombie read.
What did you miss?
Since this is a book discussion, you did not "miss" anything.
You offered interesting points up for discussion. They were relevant points.
We were free to add our own input/questions
You did a great job as the Discussion leader.
Give yourself a pat on the back.
Would I ask any questions of the others? Nah, I am all talked out.
#1. Okay, I seemed to notice that this last section was even MORE about sex and relationships than the last section. Do you have any ideas as to why the author seems to have completely stopped the story to focus on the 'sex stuff?' Do you think it is because she knew there would be a sequel to save more zombie fighting action for? Or do you expect more of the same from the sequels? Will you be reading the sequels?I can't imagine why the sex stuff kept getting pounded. It was really driving me nuts. I think the sequels were planned based on the setups in this one. Maybe the author is just a fan of romance novels and likes all that? I've already read the sequels, it has to be really really bad for me to give up on a series, and the same things (plus some new ones) that bugged me in this one bugged me in those.
#3. How do you feel about Jenni's decision to be with Juan? Do you think she 'settled' for him after finding out how enamored Travis was by Katie, or did you think Jenni and Juan were a better match from the get-go? Do you even believe for a second that Juan is only the second man she's ever been with? (pg. 308)
I think Jenni and Juan were a better fit. Travis doesn't seem like the kind who would put up with her level of drama long term. Juan seems like he likes a little bit of nuts in his cereal and Jenni has that to spare. The problem I have is why does everyone HAVE to hook up? If I had just lost my husband (jerk though he is women who stay in an abusive relationship are usually very attached if in an unhealthy way) and my children were all dead - think I might take a couple of weeks off before I felt amorous. I agree with Tammy on the "willingly" part of the last question. I don't know whether that is meant literally or figuratively but Juan being only the second man is very inconsistent with her earlier behavior toward Katie. If that is her conditioned response to "what men want" and she so easily went that direction the only being with her husband part doesn't make sense. Who knows - and frankly I didn't care - I started fast forwarding when I got to that part. It was terrible.
#4. If YOU had to make the executive decision, would you have thrown Ritchie (the meth dealer) to the zoms, or do you agree with Travis that everyone is entitled to life and a new beginning? Logistically, what role do you think a drug dealer could play in this new society?
I think Travis was way wrong and naïve on this one but I wouldn't have secretly murdered Ritchie either. I would have pushed the group to put him back on his bike with a little food and water and then made him aware that he would be shot the next time I saw him. That's always risky because he is likely to come back and cause more trouble but the way he was killed was very cowardly. If I were that convinced he had to be killed I would have at least challenged him to a fair fight. Ritchie was obviously a bad dude and bound to get someone killed. I would make darn sure it wasn't me. If the group was composed of people who in a majority though giving Ritchie a second chance was a good idea I'd try to get those who agreed with me to start looking for another place to fortify so we could peel off from the others. Those people wouldn't last a week without the "strong" group who had been building, rescuing, and scavenging so I'm betting the "threat" of several of us leaving would be enough to get their minds right. Either way, I would not feel obligated to hang around with a group that was dumb enough to let a clearly bad guy join the group and try to save them from themselves. A million options just short of sneaky night murder by zombie - but people like Ritchie staying would be a no go.
#5. On page 322, Juan says "Yeah, well, you try to be a Hispanic male in a white society and see if you feel comfortable with that answer." We hadn't heard ANYTHING about race relations; why the sudden mention? Do you see anything about Ashley Oaks (besides maybe Shane and Phil) that would make you think race relations would be a problem there?
This was another thing that I thought was weird and out of place as well as out of character for Juan. If he were going to use that in his argument he would have at least done so in a joking way. Something irreverent and rude about burritos in a grilled cheese world... That seemed whiney and passive-aggressive to me - not like Juan in other situations. The people in the fort had all been depending on, trusting, and deferring to Juan (later Travis too but originally Juan since he was in charge of the construction site) - so what evidence had there been they would give a bleep what color he was. Plus Juan is from West Texas - not even close to a "white society".
#6. I'm not sure if this is included in the hard copy, and I know it isn't included in the audio version, but in the Kindle book, there is an author blurb at the end in which Frater explains that "Writers are often advised to write what they know and love. Well, I know Texans and I love the zombie genre." (pg. 333) As Thia's comment suggests, Frater may not know Texas as well as she claims, and she doesn't seem to know jack s&*t about the LGBT community. Why do you think she would chose to focus soooo strongly on this aspect? She also explains this book started as a blog-type mini-series, and that's where the chapter break downs came into play. Do you think its a possibility that the 'write a little bit' each day strategy rather than 'I'm going to sit down and write a novel" approach detracted from this book? How and why?
Most of the Texans I know are pretty private about sexuality - regardless of what it is. She obviously had an agenda from day one planned for these characters - fine if you can do it smoothly and make it fit. But I'm always uncomfortable when people use the perspective "this is my gay friend Tony." How about just this is my friend Tony? Most people I know, gay, straight, bi, or whatever don't go around making such a whoop ti do about whatever their sexuality is. And they certainly don't have very uncomfortable conversations about it with 15 year olds, ask them to keep it a secret, and then have a big "reveal" later. My answer to Katie's big reveal would have been "yeah so? I like cheese..."
#7. Overall, what did you think of this one? Any important things you think I missed that need mentioning? And once again, the 'trick question': if you could ask the group one question about this section, what would it be?
I thought this world had great potential but got lost in all the messaging. Too bad, because the books without Katie and Jenni were really fun.
Your questions were great!
Ughhh...sorry no answers yet, ladies.I feel asleep like IMMEDIATELY after I got home from work this afternoon, and just now woke up with a thumping migraine. I'm glad to see your answers, Thia & Tammy. I'm fixing to lay down with a cold rag on my head and hope it doesn't turn into one of those two day affairs. I will respond and post tomorrow A.M. I'm sorry, gals...I just don't have it in me tonite, and I can BARELY even look at the computer without becoming nauseous. See ya in the A.M. ~Teresa~
Teresa wrote: "Ughhh...sorry no answers yet, ladies.I feel asleep like IMMEDIATELY after I got home from work this afternoon, and just now woke up with a thumping migraine. I'm glad to see your answers, Thia & Ta..."Hi Teresa,
No worries about not answering the questions yet.
Rest and feel better first.
I've taken the day off from reading and spent it watching movies on Netflix.
I was feeling like some comfort movies from the past, so I've watched,Ghost Busters, Congo and Frighteners :-)
Tomorrow I have similar plans for the morning.
Hoping you're feeling better soon.
Mod
But, honestly, my feeings echo all of yours. They did the first time around too.
I remain perplexed by the fact that it's almost like reading two different books. The opening few chapters are strong and exciting. Then - it just devolves. Out of the blue. With no warning. I don't get it. It's like she wrecked it.
I own the sequels, and I haven't been able to get past the second chapter of the second book. There are just too many better options out there.
I also don't get the high, high ratings on this one. Much of it is nonsensical. I've said before - I'm not a romance kind of girl - but I've read romances that are GOOD - so what the heck IS this???
Tammy K. wrote: "Hi Teresa,It's more that Katie is "hands on" with Jenni.
I don't have the book in front of me ATM but as I recall she's letting Travis believe that she's going after Jenni romantically speaking...."
I think Jenni's attachment to Katie is because she attaches herself to alpha’s male/female doesn't matter that why she tries to get Travis attention. But I agree over drama on Jenni and it only gets worse. I’ve finished the book 1 & 2 can’t bring myself to pick up book 3 yet need a break for Jenni over the top craziness & Katie’s guilt. Not to say I don’t like the books because I do.
Hi Party, Thank you for joining in on the BOTM. It's always interesting to see what others think of the same book.
As for Jenni attaching to an alpha personality I would suggest that at best Katie would be a beta personality, which rises up to a leadership role only in the absence of an Alpha personality.
Sticking with the same concept, jenni would switch allegiances once she arrived at Ashley oaks and encountered a true alpha personality.
The opening presentation of Travis was the closest alpha description.
Juan would have lined up in that same kind of comparison.
However, IF that was what the author was aiming for, than it was a total struck out, in my way of thinking.
When I read the part about Katie going with Travis to Ralph and Nerit's to retrieve the guns, leaving Jenni behind which led to Jenni's freak out, it occurred to me that Jenni sees Katie, Jason and Jack as her "new" family unit. She finally feels that best friend/familial bond that she probably never had with her husband and may not have even had with her own children, though at this point, she may be just burying and avoiding any thoughts or feelings about her dead kids in order to survive, compartmentalizing so to speak. I also think it ties into her good luck charm train of thought...since they have survived thus far together, she believes that their good luck will only hold out as long as they stay together.I really was not into the romance stuff happening in this series, a little is okay but it just becomes cloying here, but I will still say that the writing here is still far above an awful lot of zombie lit I've read. Though there are some things that put me off, I still would put it in the top 15%-20%.
Books mentioned in this topic
Sunrise (other topics)As the World Dies: Untold Tales Volume 1 (other topics)
Surviving the Zombie Outbreak: The Official Zombie Survival Field Manual (other topics)
~Teresa~