Monthly Group Reads: OCTOBER 2013 (Group Read 1) Pride of Carthage by David Anthony Durham

[Jane]

Nate wrote: "Apologies to anyone who took offense to my language, my rationale was some casual cursing would not stir the waters as this is a group of adults reading books that often contain graphic language, r..."

Apology accepted, Nate!

[[deleted user]]

Terri wrote: "Does anybody else find it refreshing that this book is not yet another book about the Romans? From a Roman perspective?

That was one of my biggest likes about the book. That this is mainly the sto..."

Me for sure. I've read plenty of books from the Roman perspective, so it's definitely refreshing to read a different viewpoint, for me anyway. I like learning about cultures that I'm not already familiar with.

[Nate]

Terri wrote: "Well... I don't think all books in this genre contain graphic language (or rape or violence). Man, I try so hard to spread the word that non romance hist fic does not mean hist fic that centres on ..."

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the entire genre is just mindless cursing, rape, and violence. I wouldn't wanna read that. That said, the group reads do tend to be concerned with stuff like war and political upheaval, which is a breeding ground for ugly stuff like torture, rape, violence, famine and coarse language. For authors to just kind of gloss over these things is antithetical to the idea of creating accurate fictional recreations of historical stuff--these things frequently happened in this situation. How this applies to me and my pottymouth is that I figured that people who can come to grips with these horrible things wouldn't be offended by my using the f-word. I say all this not to start an argument, but just to explain my language--this is how I talk and I like to be informal and congenial with people. I certainly don't mean to come across as this obnoxiously vulgar loudmouth.

[Nate]

Terri wrote: "Does anybody else find it refreshing that this book is not yet another book about the Romans? From a Roman perspective?

That was one of my biggest likes about the book. That this is mainly the sto..."

Yes! It's so refreshing to see the Romans suffer those humiliating and scary defeats (even while I'm appalled at the human loss). It's totally one of things where you know what's gonna happen, but you're just hoping against hope that it turns out differently for some reason. It's very bittersweet, tragic almost.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Nate wrote: ".Don't get me wrong, I don't think the entire genre is just mindless cursing, rape, and violence. I wouldn't wanna read that. That said, the group reads do tend to be concerned with stuff like war and political upheaval, which is a breeding ground for ugly stuff like torture, rape, violence, famine and coarse language.."

Nate, I really wanted it to be done. But I'll just say this.
I swear like a trooper too, so you did not offend me.

The thing is. (and this is why there is a rule in the group rules that says nobody should use excessive language). It is completely different with books. In a book, if something such as a rape scene or gore or swearing happens and it offends the reader they can shut the book and move onto the next book. They can choose to overlook it, or stop reading the book.

In this group, I don't want people to 'stop reading the book'.
In other words, stop being involved in group reads or the group because they are uncomfortable around people conversing with swearwords.
For the same reasons, I expect our members to respect other people's religion, race, cultural differences, moral beliefs etc.. (not that you disrespected any of those of course).

So, that explains that. Justin asked nicely to please not drop the f bomb. You apologised. And everything is perfectly fine now. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Nate wrote: ".Yes! It's so refreshing to see the Romans suffer those humiliating and scary defeats (even while I'm appalled at the human loss). It's totally one of things where you know what's gonna happen, but you're just hoping against hope that it turns out differently for some reason. It's very bittersweet, tragic almost. .."

Yes, so tragic. Especially once we realise that Carthage and the Carthaginians ceased to exist as a distinct race.
These Punic Wars are some of the last we'll see of them in history before the Carthaginians become, essentially, extinct.

[Lia]

Starting this tonight... Sorry, joining in a little bit late :(

[Darcy]

I began this tonight as well. Didn't get very far, but likely to get much further tomorrow.

[[deleted user]]

Slackers :)

[Daniel]

got it. Now to decide weather to start with it or The Name of the Rose.

[Nate]

I'm really enjoying the author's style right now, lots of detail and information but coming in the form of a gripping story. Hopefully everyone else is enjoying it as well!

[Daniel]

alright, Pride of Carthage it is. I will be starting it sometime this weekend.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Daniel wrote: "alright, Pride of Carthage it is. I will be starting it sometime this weekend."

Woot!!

Darcy wrote: "I began this tonight as well. Didn't get very far, but likely to get much further tomorrow."


Woot!!


Lia wrote: "Starting this tonight... Sorry, joining in a little bit late :("


Woot!


Oh that was an easy way to cheer you all at once. :D

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Nate wrote: "I'm really enjoying the author's style right now, lots of detail and information but coming in the form of a gripping story. Hopefully everyone else is enjoying it as well!"

And a cheer for Nate. Since it is great to see others enjoying this book. :)

(That's not to say that anybody should feel self conscious and feel they can't speak up if they don't enjoy the book....you are welcome to share you opinion too. Nobody is wrong in these group reads).

[Darcy]

So, I didn't get much further but the day is not yet over. I do; however, am making an observation: there no chapters. I don't mind page breaks, but I try to set goals when reading. This is challenging my habits ;)

[Bryn]

Ha. Aren't there about three chapters in the book? I'd forgotten that about it.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Hey, you just reminded me of something I meant ot put in the review of my last read....(The Ill-Made Knight)..it had no chapters either. It had scene breaks - not frequently, but it had them - and about three Parts. And I had to rely on those for places to stop. :)

I hate not having chapters.

[Darcy]

Bryn wrote: "Ha. Aren't there about three chapters in the book? I'd forgotten that about it."

Possibly, but they are elusive :D

ETA: While zipping through pages I noticed a chapter 4. Will have to re-evaluate my goal setting scheme.

[Bryn]

You'll come to the end of one when you least expect it, Darcy. However not for a while yet... !

[[deleted user]]

Bryn wrote: "You'll come to the end of one when you least expect it, Darcy. However not for a while yet... !"

Yeah.. the lack of chapters kind of threw me off too. I've adjusted to it though.

[[deleted user]]

This book is beautifully written to me. It's not what I'd call a page turner, but it's thoughtful...& like Terri said...intelligent. So far, I'm loving it.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

No it sure isn't a page turner. I think, for me, it is in parts a page turner, but over all, I agree.
At this stage I can compare it to the other group read. The Name of the Rose. They are not pulp fiction books. They are not action entertainment books. They are written intelligently and involve much deep thinking.

They are the kind of books I do like to lose myself in. :)

[[deleted user]]

Terri wrote: "No it sure isn't a page turner. I think, for me, it is in parts a page turner, but over all, I agree.
At this stage I can compare it to the other group read. The Name of the Rose. They are not pulp..."

Amen! I'm happily losing myself in this one. It's kind of strange, because if someone had described this book to me(in terms that I'm familiar with), I would have said " that sounds completely boring!" But it's anything but that. Read this book, people.

[[deleted user]]

I want to know more about this Monomachus character. I'm hoping the author will delve into his background at some point...

[Eileen]

Derek wrote: "I want to know more about this Monomachus character. I'm hoping the author will delve into his background at some point..."

Are you speaking of Constantine X Monomachus, the Byzantine emperor from 1042-1055?

[[deleted user]]

Eileen wrote: "Derek wrote: "I want to know more about this Monomachus character. I'm hoping the author will delve into his background at some point..."

Are you speaking of Constantine X Monomachus, the Byzantin..."

No. The Monomachus I'm referring to is an officer in Hannibal's Carthaginian army. He's depicted as a very dark character in this book.

[Jane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal...

Derek, maybe this will help. Apparently, he really lived and was a horrible person.

[[deleted user]]

Jane wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal...

Derek, maybe this will help. Apparently, he really lived and was a horrible person."

Thanks for that, Jane. I wasn't sure if he was an actual historical figure, or if he was completely fictional.

[Eileen]

Derek wrote: "Jane wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal...

Derek, maybe this will help. Apparently, he really lived and was a horrible person."

Thanks for that, Jane. I wasn't sure if he was ..."

Jane and Derek- Thanks for clueing me into this other Monomachus. I was only aware of the Byzantine emperor and the one daughter he had that he married off to a Rus king.

Does anyone know what the meaning of "Monomachus" is? "One (mono) - ??"

[Bryn]

machus is to do with fighting... Wiki has told me put together it means, "He who fights alone/gladiator". Single combatant.

[Jane]

Eileen wrote: "Derek wrote: "Jane wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal...

Derek, maybe this will help. Apparently, he really lived and was a horrible person."

Thanks for that, Jane. I wasn't s..."

@Eileen, there was a Kievan prince, Vladimir II Monomakh, who was the son of the daughter of the Byzantine emperor you mentioned.

http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-r...

[Daniel]

So far, so good. I am enjoying this read. It has an 'epic' feel I am looking for right now.

[Eileen]

Jane wrote: "Eileen wrote: "Derek wrote: "Jane wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal...

Derek, maybe this will help. Apparently, he really lived and was a horrible person."

Yes, I knew about the daughter marrying the Kievan prince. Just learned that recently when I was reading another book, either The Handfasted Wife or The Forever Queen, I think. Interesting coincidence since I was just writing about the episode that got the poor girl married off to the Kievan prince, but had not given her or her marriage any thought. Serendipity.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Daniel wrote: "So far, so good. I am enjoying this read. It has an 'epic' feel I am looking for right now."

The kind of book to concentrate on and settle in with. :)

[Justin]

One thing I'm really enjoying is some quotes from Hannibal and a couple of others that I recall from the written historical record. One of my favorite accounts of the Punic Wars is The Ghosts of Cannae: Hannibal & the Darkest Hour of the Roman Republic (it covers all three, though it focuses on Hannibal's time in Italy). Several things said by Hannibal in this novel are actual quotes (assuming the chronicler back in the day had it right, of course...). I love the historical detail. Thoroughly enjoying it. Like Nate, I'm finding it combined with a sense of tragedy that makes it even more powerful.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

That's great, Justin. Really pleased everyone so far is getting something out of the book.

There is so much focus on 'd#ck lit' type battle/adventure books in this genre and I wish there were a hundred more Ancient hist fic like Pride of Carthage. They are the kind of books I value in the genre.

Books that have a lot of talent and intelligence within their words.
If only david Anthony Durham would write us another historical fiction.
He seems happy just writing fantasy though. :[

[Bryn]

He is a great loss to historical fiction. Come back, come back.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I saw something from him a couple weeks back, on FB or something, he's not on Twitter so it wasn't there, where he said something about the book still selling well in print, or maybe it was a new translation being released, and how amazed he was that after so many years the book was still so popular.

Well doesn't that tell him something!!! he needs to be inspired to write real (not fantasy) history again!

[Bryn]

Yes!
How can he be amazed? :] Let's amaze him a bit more, then. We're doing our bit. I understand hf's loss is fantasy's gain, but hey.

[Justin]

Terri wrote: "There is so much focus on 'd#ck lit' type battle/adventure books in this genre and I wish there were a hu..."

Course term, but all too appropriate. I cannot stand those books, even though there are so many. It is a shame that Durham isn't writing HF. The only good thing is it makes me appreciate the authors who deliver something that makes us think, something that will stick with us for the long haul.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I struggle to appreciate those kinds of books too. I read some if I have to, if they are a group read for example, but I like a hist fic to feel that it isn't catering to any 'type' of person. It is only written to cater to people who enjoy a well written book about history.
It is why I avoid hard core, blokey battle books and swoony romance books. There's too much of a mass market feel about those.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Justin wrote: "

Course term, but all too appropriate. I cannot stand those books, even t..."

Hey, maybe I meant duck lit?? Don't jump to conclusions. :)

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Bryn wrote: "Yes!
How can he be amazed? :] Let's amaze him a bit more, then. We're doing our bit. I understand hf's loss is fantasy's gain, but hey."

I do hope to one day try his fantasy debut.

[Justin]

Terri wrote: "Hey, maybe I meant duck lit?? Don't jump to conclusions. :)"

That's the perfect name for it, since that's the level of intelligence the author seems to expect his reader. :)

I fear I'm beginning to sound elitist.

[Bryn]

I'm going to call it duck lit from now on. It's cute and it goes with chick lit. If we have to be fowl...

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

lol. Duck lit it is...although...I prefer the courser as it matches the tone of some of the books we speak of.

[[deleted user]]

Is this his only hist fic book? It's a shame if it is. I was already planning on seeking out other books by him, after I finish this one.

I guess that helps explain why I'd not heard of Durham before, as I don't read fantasy books. Not yet anyway.

[Terri, Wyrd bið ful aræd]

He has written a pre US Civil war one and a post (1870's) post Civil war one. Maybe it is something you would like to try, Derek?

Walk Through Darkness

Gabriel's Story: A Novel

The settings aren't old enough for me. :)

[[deleted user]]

Terri wrote: "He has written a pre US Civil war one. I forgot about that. Maybe it is something you would like to try, Derek?

Walk Through Darkness"

If I wasn't so impressed with this author, that one wouldn't appeal to me. I might have to give it a try eventually, though. Thanks Terri.

[Darcy]

Derek may not be interested, but I've added them to my TBR...as if I needed another book.