THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion
BOOK DISCUSSIONS
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Must Read Books of WW2
Locky wrote: "Has anyone else read 'Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War' by Pat Buchanan? I thought it was a great insight into WWII from someone who would consider themselves an isolationist."
I started it and thought I should throw it at Mr. Roberts head. But that might just be me. If I was still in High School and playing football I would have kept reading it, since it would have gotten me pumped up for the game.
Hey Paul, Pat's conclusion was (in a very condensed/not doing the book justice form) that communism and nazism were on a collision course and it would have been preferable for them to grind each other to dust rather than give Poland a war guarantee that would drag England and eventually America into the conflict.
There's many other interesting arguments he makes too - that communism posed the bigger threat to the world than nazism, that Britain went to war for Poland's sake but then let Stalin move all the way up to East Berlin. He also argues that had Germany been treated fairly at Versailles, there would have been no Hitler nor Nazism.
Locky wrote: "He also argues that had Germany been treated fairly at Versailles, there would have been no Hitler nor Nazism. ." He could also have written if it was not for the idiocy of the Russian monarchy here would have been no communist revolution in Russia.
I have done a bit of research on this book this evening having never heard of it before. It is not on my list of Must Read Books of WW2 to be frank. There are plenty who are scathing. The fact that is uses secondary sources has me suspicious.
I defend no form of totalitarianism and what happened to the masses under the Stalin and Mao regimes is appalling but at least ( and I say that advisedly) they played lip service to some semblance of humanity. Nazism did not even attempt that. They made it clear they were out to get rid of certain types and that included forced euthanasia of their very own. Churchill can be criticised for a lot of things but standing up to Nazism is not one of them.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentis...
https://edgeinducedcohesion.blog/2018...
https://newrepublic.com/article/42206...
http://jcpa.org/article/joel-fishman-...
https://www.nationalreview.com/2008/0...
I would suggest that the present book I am slowly getting through should be high on Must Read Books of WW2 as opposed to revisionist books. KL: A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps
I have been very slow reading this. As exceptional as it is it can be wearing though and the odd break is required. Man's inhumanity to his fellow man never ceases to amaze me.
Buchanan's has 80 pages of sources and notes, spanning nearly a century of writing. It is a cheap criticism to be 'suspicious of second hand sources'. I read 3 of the links you mentioned and all 3 were hit pieces on Buchanan himself and not legitimate criticisms of his book.If you prefer first hand sources, I'm sure you'll love Hitler's War by David Irving.
Locky wrote: "If you prefer first hand sources, I'm sure you'll love Hitler's War by David Irving."
LOL. I suspect I wont. :-)
Locky wrote: "Hey Paul, Pat's conclusion was (in a very condensed/not doing the book justice form) that communism and nazism were on a collision course and it would have been preferable for them to grind each o..."
Hi, Locky.
He could have been right about communisim and Nazism being on a collision course - indeed they were - but I don't think it would have happened without Churchill's stand. Imagine that he did sue for peace after the fall of France. Hitler and Stalin (and even Mussolini), who were drunk with success already, would have almost certainly sought for more territory. The U.S. was isolationist until attacked, so Canada or Australia would have been the next logical enemy of the two behemoths, and they would have gained more valuable natural resources with every victory.
I might, at some point, browse Buchanan's book, and I would give it a fair consideration, but I honestly don't think the "grinding against each other" would have happened in 1940; I think it wouldn't have happened until they had to determine which of those monsters would be the ruler of the world.
Finest Hour: The Battle of Britain by Tim Clayton & Phil Craig, is one of the best books on the Second World War that I've yet read.
This book covers the period May - November 1940 when Britain was in its most precarious position, struggling for its very survival.
Through diary extracts and personal interviews (from the survivors) by both authors, you get a really tangible sense of the urgency, fear, hope and danger that the British lived with during that time. Among the people profiled in this book were:
i) a British tank commander who fought against Rommel's "Ghost Division" (the 7th Panzer Division) during the spring fighting in Northern France, barely escaping capture, and later managing to escape to England
ii) an RAF fighter pilot who flew Hurricanes in France (with 87 Squadron) and later over England
iii) a WAAF (Women's Auxiliary Air Force) fighter controller
iv) an American journalist with connections to both Roosevelt and Churchill
v) a young sailor in the Royal Navy, who assisted in the evacuation of Allied military personnel from Dunkirk and later served in a naval task force Churchill sent to Oran to attack the surface vessels of the French Navy stationed there, so as not to allow those ships to come under German control following the French surrender.
If you are one of those readers who seeks to find a "real and human" connection with what the Second World War was like, you can't go wrong with "THE FINEST HOUR".
Cody had asked this question:I'm just recently getting into reading about WW2, and was interested in your top recommendations.
Recommendations???
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Cody had asked this question:I'm just recently getting into reading about WW2, and was interested in your top recommendations.
Recommendations???"
Oh geez, where to start? All right, I'll get the ball rolling on some books I've read which I would definitely recommend.
U.S. Submarine Warfare v. Japan
Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan
Clear the Bridge!: The War Patrols of the U.S.S. Tang
Thunder Below!: The USS *Barb* Revolutionizes Submarine Warfare in World War II
Sink 'Em All: Submarine Warfare in the PacificNaval Warfare in the Pacific
The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour
Neptune's Inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal
Ship of Ghosts: The Story of the USS Houston, FDR's Legendary Lost Cruiser, and the Epic Saga of Her Survivors
The Fleet at Flood Tide: America at Total War in the Pacific, 1944-1945
Storm Over Leyte: The Philippine Invasion and the Destruction of the Japanese Navy
Hell from the Heavens: The Epic Story of the USS Laffey and World War II's Greatest Kamikaze AttackAir Combat in the Pacific
We Band Of Brothers
AIR COMBAT AT 20 FEET
Target Tokyo: Jimmy Doolittle and the Raid That Avenged Pearl Harbor
Fortress Rabaul: The Battle for the Southwest Pacific, January 1942-April 1943
Target: Rabaul: The Allied Siege of Japan's Most Infamous Stronghold, March 1943 - August 1945
I think Happy may have mentioned some of these as good starting titles for a general overview of WW2:
All Hell Let Loose: The World at War, 1939-1945 by Max Hastings
The Second World War by Antony Beevor
The Storm Of War: A New History Of The Second World War by Andrew RobertsSome older titles but still quite good:
The Second World War: A Complete History by Martin Gilbert
The Second World War by John KeeganAn oldie but still a goodie:
The Struggle for Europe by Chester Wilmot
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Cody had asked this question:I'm just recently getting into reading about WW2, and was interested in your top recommendations.
Recommendations???"
Okay, time for a second batch:
The U-Boat War
Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942
Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunted, 1942-1945
Escort Commander
U-Boat Killer: Fighting the U-Boats in the Battle of the Atlantic
Iron Coffins: A Personal Account of the German U-boat Battles of World War IIParatroopers
All American, All the Way: The Combat History of the 82nd Airborne Division in World War II
D-Day with the Screaming Eagles
Hell's Highway: A Chronicle of the 101st Airborne in the Holland Campaign, September-November 1944
The Battered Bastards of Bastogne: The 101st Airborne and the Battle of the Bulge, December 19,1944-January 17,1945
Arnhem 1944: The Airborne Battle, 17-26 September
All the Way to Berlin: A Paratrooper at War in Europe
Those Devils in Baggy PantsThe Eastern Front
Hitler's Final Fortress Breslau 1945
Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin
Stalingrad: How the Red Army Triumphed
Total War: From Stalingrad to Berlin
The Retreat: Hitler's First Defeat
Leningrad: State of Siege
After Hitler: The Last Days of World War Two in Europe
I tell you what, this group is damn smart! Collect and read the books recommended above and you will be too.
Round Three.Air Combat Over Europe and the Eastern Front
Firestorm Hamburg: The Facts Surrounding the Destruction of a German City 1943
The Schweinfurt Regensburg Mission: The American Raids on 17 August 1943
Tail-End Charlies: The Last Battles of the Bomber War, 1944--45
Hell's Angels: The True Story of the 303rd Bomb Group in World War II
Men Who Killed the Luftwaffe: The U.S. Army Air Forces Against Germany in World War II
Into the Fire: Ploesti, The Most Fateful Mission of World War II
Alarmstart: The German Fighter Pilot's Experience in the Second World War
The German Aces Speak: World War II Through the Eyes of Four of the Luftwaffe's Most Important Commanders
The German Aces Speak II: World War II Through the Eyes of Four More of the Luftwaffe's Most Important Commanders
Stuka Pilot
To Fly and Fight: Memoirs of a Triple Ace
Mission 376: Battle Over the Reich, May 28, 1944
Masters of the Air: America's Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany
Fighter Aces of the Luftwaffe
To get started I would suggest overviews in a general sense and things that hold specific interests for you. Not knowing your specific interest I will suggest for the overviews.
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany
A slightly dated, but still very good account of the Nazi Years in Germany
The Rising Sun: The Decline & Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-45
An indepth look at the prewar and war situation in Japan.
Round Four.Combat in North Africa, Italy and Western Europe
The Battle of Alamein: Turning Point, World War II
An Army at Dawn: The War in North Africa, 1942-1943
The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944
The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944-1945
Armageddon: The Battle for Germany, 1944-1945
Monte Cassino: The Hardest Fought Battle of World War II
Anzio: Italy and the Battle for Rome — 1944
The Dead and Those About to Die: D-Day: The Big Red One at Omaha Beach
Utah Beach: The Amphibious Landing and Airborne Operations on D-Day, June 6, 1944
Omaha Beach: D-Day, June 6, 1944
To Hell and Back
Brazen Chariots
With Rommel In The Desert
Company Commander: The Classic Infantry Memoir of World War II
The Germans in Normandy
Alamo in the Ardennes: The Untold Story of the American Soldiers Who Made the Defense of Bastogne Possible
The Bloody Forest
Okay, last one.The Pacific War
Shadows In The Jungle: The Alamo Scouts Behind Japanese Lines In World War II
Ghost Soldiers: The Epic Account of World War II's Greatest Rescue Mission
Retribution: The Battle for Japan, 1944-45
With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa
Howlin' Mad Vs. the Army: Conflict in Command, Saipan, 1944
Islands of the Damned: A Marine at War in the Pacific
Into the Rising Sun: In Their Own Words, World War II's Pacific Veterans Reveal the Heart of Combat
Samurai!
Iwo Jima: The Dramatic Account of the Epic Battle That Turned the Tide of World War II
One Square Mile of Hell: The Battle for Tarawa
Indestructible: One Man's Rescue Mission That Changed the Course of WWII
War in the Pacific: From Pearl Harbor to Tokyo Bay
The Pacific Campaign: The U.S.-Japanese Naval War 1941-1945
The Big E: The Story of the USS Enterprise
Tales By Japanese Soldiers
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Excellent recommendations Marc, thanks for taking the time to assist Cody in his request."Always happy to recommend books. Now, let's hope his bank account can keep up!
I have read a number of the books mentioned and recommend them also. For the past few years I have been seeking more detailed information. I started the Samuel Elliott Morrison Series on the Navy and it has provided me with additional information and is easy to read. I also am working thru the Army series. I recommend both for their detail and readability for those who would like more specifics.History of US Naval Operations in WWII, 15 VolsChief of Staff: Prewar Plans and Preparations
Cody wrote: "thanks so much Marc! I will look into these. Are any of these similar writing as "We Were Soldiers Then"? I greatly enjoyed that book, and want WW2 books that are written similarly."I can't say if any of the books I recommended are similar to "We Were Soldiers Then" as I haven't read that book...even though it's been on my TBR pile for a dozen or so years.
Also, my apologies for throwing a monkey wrench into your finances!
I've just read Adolf Hitler: The Man and the Myth, and I thoroughly recommend it to anyone interested in WWII. Even though the book came out in 1973, and even though this subject has been done to death over the decades, nevertheless it opened my eyes to a lot of aspects of the war and the run-up to it.
Glad you enjoyed that book John. I still have Ian Kershaw's massive volume to read on Hitler.
Hitler 1936-1945: Nemesis by Ian Kershaw
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Glad you enjoyed that book John. I still have Ian Kershaw's massive volume to read on Hitler.
Hitler 1936-1945: Nemesis by [author:Ian K..."Just today I was thinking about this book or Joachim Fest.
I personally thought Kershaw's The End a very significant book on the subject of Nazi Germany's demise. Yes it is tough going in terms of the death and destruction on just about every page but it is chock a block full of amazingly interesting analysis, serious food for thought. An exceptionally good writer. A must read for anyone with an interest in the subject. My review for any one interested.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
message 329:
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Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces
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With the Old Breed by SledgeGoodbye Darkness by Manchester
To Hell and Back by Murphy
Band of Brothers by Ambrose
D-Day by Ambrose
Ghost Soldiers by Sides
The Liberation trilogy by Atkinson
Thomas wrote: "With the Old Breed by SledgeGoodbye Darkness by Manchester
To Hell and Back by Murphy
Band of Brothers by Ambrose
D-Day by Ambrose
Ghost Soldiers by Sides
The Liberation trilogy by Atkinson"
Nice to see someone else mention Audie Murphy's book. Loved reading it back in high school.
I have my dad's copy. Read it while I was in college. Reminded me of Hemingway's style and thought maybe that he was the ghost writer, but turns out it was a fella by the name of McClure. When I hear the word "hero," which unfortunately has become an overused term, I think of someone like Murphy.
Funny enough I also read my dad's copy of "To Hell and Back" and still have the movie on DVD which I love to watch from time-to-time. I rate both "With the Old Breed" and "Goodbye Darkness" in my top reads on WW2.
Gotta love Audie, though his book was an 'as told to' before they admitted that on book covers. He went to Hollywood after the war and a screenwriter friend put his stories into writing. 'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Funny enough I also read my dad's copy of "To Hell and Back" a "
Just finished Jonathan Jordan's 500 page American Warlords. Despite the length, or because of it -- and the details it shares -- I consider it a must read. Incredible sites of Roosevelt with chinks in his armor and his warlords: Stimson, Marshall, and King.My review:
Jonathan Jordan’s American Warlords put me at the table beside FDR as he wrestled with his thoughts, studied charts in the Map Room, and wooed Churchill and Stalin all while struggling merely to shift in his chair. But the nearly 500 page book doesn’t stop there. Jordan sets aside the more familiar MacArthur, Patton, and Eisenhower to gives us Stimson, Marshall, and King. In oh-so-readable prose, he reveals their bigger-than-life roles, their private squabbles, and their sure hands that guided pieces on WWII’s chessboard. Highly recommended.
Rona wrote: "Just finished Jonathan Jordan's 500 page American Warlords. Despite the length, or because of it -- and the details it shares -- I consider it a must read. Incredible sites of Roosevelt with chinks...". Great review, will read this book next, very interested in decision making.
Sounds like an interesting book, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with the group Rona.
American Warlords: How Roosevelt's High Command Led America to Victory in World War II by Jonathan W. Jordan
I can recommend this amazing book:Clara’s War - Clara Kramer
I have read it about 8 times I think. It is absolutely fantastic!
Sofie wrote: "I can recommend this amazing book:Clara’s War - Clara Kramer
I have read it about 8 times I think. It is absolutely fantastic!"
Forgot I had this on my "wanted" list, thanks for the reminder, Sofie, and glad to hear it is that good!
Clara's War by Clara Kramer
Recently, I borrowed from my neighborhood library the book "The Washington War: FDR's Inner Circle and the Politics of Power That Won World War II" by James Lacey, which I'm now reading avidly.
It's a highly fascinating, well-written book that makes plain in a very revealing way the various personalities in and around FDR's administration who played significant roles in the country's prosecution of the war effort.
What's amazing is how real many of these people become -- e.g. Harold Ickes, the Secretary of the Interior; Harry Hopkins, the Secretary of Commerce and a close aide to FDR; General George C. Marshall of the U.S. Army, who was named Chief of Staff by FDR on September 1, 1939; Secretary of State Cordell Hull; and Sumner Wells, a diplomat who worked closely with FDR on State Department matters --- in the pages of this book. I'm enjoying the experience.
"World War II Order of Battle: An Encyclopedic Reference to U.S. Army Ground Forces from Battalion through Division, 1939-1946" by Shelby L. StantonFor the pedantic and trivia obsessed. I paid $50 (USD) for my used copy and never blinked an eye. Originally published in 1984 one can find the data on the Internet now, but I prefer to sit this monster tome on my lap and spend hours perusing through it. Amazon advises the book weighs 5.9 lbs (approximately 2.6 kilos) so it has a majestic heft to it. If placed in a corner and ordered to find a fault I would say the author made a mistake not listing the various unit awards, but in other books that followed he made up for the oversight.
From the Goodreads synopsis: "Contains information about the U.S. Army units that participated in all theaters of WWII: when they were activated, where they were activated, and all of their locations up to and including any deactivation. The author even includes a table showing what units contributed personnel to form newer units. It also lists the divisional commanders and what smaller units were attached to them while in combat. "
Checkman wrote: "
"World War II Order of Battle: An Encyclopedic Reference to U.S. Army Ground Forces from Battalion through Division, 1939-1946" by Shelb..."A great reference. Congrats
Dj wrote: "Checkman wrote: "
"World War II Order of Battle: An Encyclopedic Reference to U.S. Army Ground Forces from Battalion through Division, 19..."Thanks.
Watching my bookshelf with only about +60 WW2 books there are handful that I think are a must read for anyone enthusiast about the war. Not maybe because of their content but how they're structured, written and researched:The best of the best not in order:
Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway
Many have already mentioned this, but I cannot stress how good this book is. It's phenomenal in it's research on the subject and to give it perspective; after reading this, Ian Toll's Pacific trilogy felt super shallow.
Either of Max Hastings'
Nemesis: The Battle For Japan, 1944-45
or Armageddon: The Battle for Germany, 1944-1945
Not only because they also delve into the subject of actual warfare instead of just moving divisions around and having commanders do stuff. They're both well written and cover well the end's of both front.
Rick Atkinsons trilogy, for me the second one was the best, so here:
The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944
Very well written, deep in it's analysis and easy to follow. Real page turners about the whole western front.
And last but not least:
As a part of Cambridge University's ongoing series of WW2 armies, Jonathan Fennel wrote about the British and Commonwealth armies.
Fighting the People's War: The British and Commonwealth Armies and the Second World War
This I chomped through in few days in summer, 700 pages of meticulous research about the intricacies of British and commonwealth armies, why and how they fought. It's less about mechanics or equipment but about the men and women who fought. This is purely about armies, not airforce/navy.
Perato wrote: "Watching my bookshelf with only about +60 WW2 books there are handful that I think are a must read for anyone enthusiast about the war. Not maybe because of their content but how they're structured..."I absolutely agree with Shattered Sword. Ignore the fact that it clears up and a lot of issues in regards to the battle itself, it is the only book I have ever read that explained how Radar worked and did it in a way that didn't leave me with crossed eyes. I would consider it a must-read for that alone. The Writes attention to detail and explaining the whys and wherefores of the ship design and the search patterns were excellent. And now I think I might have to put it back in my reading rotation. Thanks. LOL
Perato wrote: "Watching my bookshelf with only about +60 WW2 books there are handful that I think are a must read for anyone enthusiast about the war. Not maybe because of their content but how they're structured..."I agree with your list (although I haven't read the Midway book yet), and would add these:
All four of James Hornfischer's books:
Neptune's Inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal
Ship of Ghosts: The Story of the USS Houston, FDR's Legendary Lost Cruiser, and the Epic Saga of Her Survivors
The Fleet at Flood Tide: America at Total War in the Pacific, 1944-1945
The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest HourThe last one is the best book on WWII naval combat I've ever read.
Target Tokyo: Jimmy Doolittle and the Raid That Avenged Pearl Harbor
Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan
Most of the books that I consider to be “must reads” on WWII have already been mentioned several times by other members of the group. And I have certainly taken note of several books that I am going to put on my hunt list based on the feedback that I have read.Rather than duplicating their efforts by listing books that have already been discussed, let me toss in some titles/authors that I think are also worthy of consideration:
THE BATTLE OF THE GENERALS: The Untold Story of the Falaise Pocket by Martin Blumenson
DECISION IN NORMANDY: The Unwritten Story of Montgomery and the Allied Campaign by Carlo D’Este
FIRE AND FORTITUDE: The U.S. Army in the Pacific War, 1941-1943 by John McManus
A WAR TO BE WON: Fighting The Second World War by Williamson Murray
RUSSIA’S WAR: A History of the Soviet War Effort, 1941 - 1945 by Richard Overy
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However, IMHO, war might have been avoidable in 1935, but by the time shots started being fired (1937 in China/Southeast Asia, 1939 in Europe), it was inevitable that the forces of tyranny and the defenders of liberty would clash in mighty battle regardless of any provocation of Hitler that Churchill may have been responsible for.
Watching "Darkest Hour" and "Dunkirk" (both somewhat flawed films but which I enjoyed enough to buy anyway) reminded me that Britain (with Canada and ANZAC forces) stood alone against not only Nazi Germany but also the Soviet Union. (Remember that Barbarossa didn't begin until the next year.) Had Churchill and Britain sued for peace, the next logical target for conquest was the Western Hemisphere, and while Hitler (and/or Stalin) might have begun with South America, the USA was the obvious plum that neither could have resisted trying to pluck, and with the help of Imperial Japan, it might have been possible.